I posted the first part of this earlier in the week. There are a few other threads running concurrently here about this same subject.This is my personal experience with this situation.Ive been using a Aurender A100 streamer/dac which is they’re entry level unit, the SQ wasn’t horrible but I was pretty sure I could get it better.In a attempt to do that I purchased a Denafrips Pontus two and a DhLabs Mirage Usb cable to use with the A100 utilizing its Usb out.The two local hi fi dealers here in SO Cal both told me this would not produce much of an result and in my opinion after trying it they were both correct. So… as I stated in the first post I was coming from a “bit is bits” perspective which was I was convinced adding a better Dac would accomplish my goals, I just couldn’t believe that the zeros and ones could possibly effect the quality of sound. But not being one to give up I decided in for penny in for a pound Id see for myself if there was anything to the other side of this conversation, I wanted a new toy for Xmas anyway.So I traded my A100 plus some cash to TMR ( nice people btw) for a shiny new Aurender N200 which arrived yesterday. Last night the moment of truth, I hooked up the new unit with the exact same everything as before in my system nothing different but the streamer.I let the tubes and everything else warm up for a few hours,picked a song I knew inside and out sat down and pressed play. Immediately within the first few notes of the Stones “ Wild Horses “ I knew I had made the right choice and that I was wrong believing bits are bits “. I really don’t have adequate language to describe the difference in sound quality other than to say I feel like Im in someone else’s home listening to they’re far superior system, its that drastic.I can with complete confidence say this has got to be one of if not the most significant upgrades Ive made in my system, scouts honor! PS. Grinin ear to ear here.
Good points. There are numerous testimonials from posters on this and other audio forums citing improvement when moving from entry level to higher quality servers/streamers. It isn’t a new revelation. Confirmation bias works in two directions. People can convince themselves that something can’t possibly work or make a positive difference, mind completely made up in that regard.
When listeners report hearing improved sound quality why the skepticism and suspicion? Why do their claims require “objective “ tests for verification and legitimacy? Where is the logic?
@ianrmack+1w Ketchup. Im a building contractor.we’ve got a whole area in our shop w equipment to chip/drill masonry,bits up to 48 inches long.The 21st century is a great time to be alive we’ve got all sorts of technology available to us to make our lives better and easier.but you know, you gotta be open to it.
I couldn’t agree with you more! I believe it’s the mindset that if I use Node as a transport to transmit bits then a more expensive streamer won’t matter 😊
In all the time I've been on various audiophile forums don't recall a single instance of audiophile subjectivist going over to the dark side. Can't even begin to tell you how many moved in opposite direction.
I'd like to see a single documented case of someone going from audiophile streamer to general service computer used as streamer and preferring it. And if its all one and zeros why even use anything other than any old laptop, can't imagine anything more convenient.
they are the first streamer/ dac recommended by 99% of people here and most of this guys are dealers and so on
I disagree, the vast majority of posters providing their listening experiences are not “dealers” but rather regular folks who are happy to share positive outcomes with audio products. What is wrong about that ?
For those who believe that dedicated music servers/streamers are overpriced and overrated then avoid them. Why question the motives snd listening impressions of others? This makes absolutely no sense.
they are the first streamer/ dac recommended by 99% of people here and most of this guys are dealers and so on
Totally disagree. I would personally never use Aurender, until they decide to do Roon, so no horse on this race, but, people who use it, like it a lot. And they are users, not dealers. Can you prove your baseless claim whoever recommended Aurender here is a dealer?
Totally ignorant statement, sounds like some hostility towards Asian products here. The individuals here using the better/best streamers are those with the most experience.
By the way, wonderful streaming and audio products come from all over this world, my system is equal opportunity, and I'm certainly experiencing the results of artisan's expertise from all over the globe!
@ianrmackI too will be getting an Airlens. Going to compare that to Sonore. I have my network isolated with Melco switch on Plixir LPS. Right now on optical. Will be putting on Ethernet for test. Just remember it’s only got I2S output. No usb.
It’s always refreshing to hear that an upgrade profoundly works.
In the expanding world of gear for streaming music, stepping up and getting real results is really doable (as with upgrading the components in one’s system).
For less than the cost of an upper mid level turntable and cartridge (not to mention that phono stage) you are in business for not nearly as much. This could include ethernet clean up too and better PSU’s (than wall warts).
Alas those who must bludgeon on about bit are bits or ethernet is ethernet or wire is wire, will never know or experience the thrill of better sounding music via streaming. It’s like the opposite of the old Tarrington commercial with the tag line “I’d rather fight than switch.” I’d rather switch than fight.
Ironically to you nay sayers we are only trying to help make you aware of the possibilities. Remember the old song refrain?
"We're parting, you go your way I'll go mine
It's best that we do
Here's a kiss I hope that this brings lots of luck to you
Oh makes no difference how I carry on
Remember, please don't talk about me when I'm gone"
It seems that quite a few people are questioning the wisdom of spending time and money building or improving systems for streaming music.Aside from the fact that I have the ability to hear virtually any song that pops into my head,its the first upgrade path I’ve taken in this hobby that actually pays for its self, vinyl records are what ? Thirty dollars a pop , Cd,s what? the same? I saved every penny of the cost of my latest hardware purchase by not buying any physical media for the last year.Sure the subscription to the streaming service is a small cost but also what I would consider a steal to have that kind of access. Its the future and its here now.
He could do the same magic if you have been ordered Node 2i instead and, he would in addition gift you in addition $5500 :-)
This is true if you compared them directly in your audio system and heard no sound quality improvement. Then of course you would buy the less expensive Node 2i and be happy.
If on the other hand an Aurender N200 is significantly better sounding then you have a decision to make. Am I willing to pay more to get unquestionably better sound performance streaming my music. I suspect that most listeners/music lovers will opt for the improvement they clearly hear.
If your system has a bottleneck south of the streamer, you will never reach the streamer’s full potential.
I only will recommend something if I have used it first hand, own it, demo’d it or used it in some capacity
I can recommend the N200 if the rest of your system is of the same caliber it is worth a demo.
Like I have said numerous times, the Node / Vault is a great streamer The N200 is better in every metric, especially the most important aspect …. Support.
Now Santa Claus may have some problem in deciding whether to put Node 2i in the case of an Aurender or in the case of some other "respectable " streamer to do his magic, including the magic of returning money back.
Given that Santa Claus may already be in a deep meditation and rest after hard Christmas work, it only remains to trust yourself. This thread, intensively or non-intensively is an implicit advertisement for the label and one particular product which costs a lot of money. If you guys are so willing to spend your money in a magical improvement for a well-advertised product, go ahead. There are thousand people suffering because of the lack of meal, i would rather donate than contribute in making rich individuals richer. Do you really have an idea why N200 or whatever their product costs 6k, couldn't it cost 5,4, or 2k?
Music and audio is as important for me as my work. I am willing to pay for something that can be justified, 6k for a streamer, a simple computer with an incorporated monitor, for me, is just unjustified, it is not a technology that takes that much money to produce it. For me, this is just a dirty business and I would not like to contribute despite that SQ is so important for me. In fact, i sometimes think that i am fine with a little disturbed reproduction during streaming because it somehow makes digital sound more analog.
Can somebody explain clearly what particular advantages in SQ they have upgrading streamers?
“For me, this is just a dirty business and I would not like to contribute despite that SQ is so important for me.”
@niodari
Pardon me, I don’t mean to be rude but please give us one good reason why any of us waste our time explaining the advantages of upgrading streamer if your mind is already made up?
And please STOP insinuating how anyone here should spend their hard earned money or savings!
I would ask you a similar question, how much would you be willing to pay for Aurender V200? if it were 8k, would it be still ok, or say, 10k, or perhaps you would also admit 13k or more, still there will be some improvement in SQ? How you measure the limit in case you have one? This is what the marketing is about, if they see you eat it, they will further increase the price.
I think that the Node is fairly priced, it does it's elementary job to transmit the data. In fact, do you realize that the difference in SQ from one badly recorded composition to another fairly recorded one would be much more than in your 6k upgrade?
I will tell you a secret that, in fact, am very keen to compare the Node with these steamers, but there are no such dealers close by here where I live. And it is against my principles to pay 6k for a simple computer (i would, if it were day 2k, which is already five times more, since obviously it will not be worse than the Node). Honestly, i don't like these big screens in streamers, they attract your attention on non important things when you wish to concentrate just on music. And I guess these screens are half from the total price.
There are people who’d chastise you for foolishly spending 500.00 when you could purchase an audio streaming component for less than 100.00. Why would you spend five times as much just to stream?
This is why it is wise not to worry how other adults handle/spend their disposable income. It’s no one else’s business. Every individual has their own chosen range for spending, whatever the reason/factors may be.
People are better off if they manage their own lives and not worry what others are doing.
Bet this guy has not spent an hour at the local church feeding the less fortunate. I do every Saturday evening and Sunday morning before church. He would rather chastise people here.
Charity comes from the heart not the wallet. My time is priceless. If I spend $15K on my Innuos Statement thats my business.
If you guys are so willing to spend your money in a magical improvement for a well-advertised product, go ahead. There are thousand people suffering because of the lack of meal, i would rather donate than contribute in making rich individuals richer. Do you really have an idea why N200 or whatever their product costs 6k, couldn't it cost 5,4, or 2k?
“Charity comes from the heart not the wallet.” @jerryg123
I couldn’t agree with you more! There are many who have the means to give, but not the heart to shell out a dime. BTW, your reply to audiotroy was precious 🤣
@niodari Wait! What ? So your post of October 8 titled “Tubes , cheese, wine and congnac “where you brag about the five different and expensive boutique vacum tubes you tried in your amp are ok?? Lets see here “so far tried Mullard ,Gold Lion , and Tang Sol “its Tung Sol by the way, why did you waste money on those when the stock tubes Im sure are perfectly fine? How many could you have fed with that amount of wasted money I wonder? Tubes ,cheese wine and cognac, not bourgeois at all,nope.Please be so kind as to submit a list for me of things that you deem acceptable to purchase, thanks in advance.By the way Im warming up my stock Prima Luna tubes now, I’ll replace these when they’re dead.
Charles, i share the point of view from your post, which not necessarily contradicts to what I said. I do not blame people buying these streamers, i only questioned if the price they are sold is justified and if we, buying them, are in fact pushing further rise of their public price.
@jerryg123, could you please be more moderate in your unproven statements and hypothesis?
@bikeboy52, one of the supplied tubes in my set amp was blown out and that is why I had to look for substitutes. And once you start this process it is difficult to stop until you find something ideal, which may never happen. Paying for a 60 years old nos tube pair 2-3 hundred dollars still seem to me more reasonable than 6k for a small computer.
I notice a trend of disproportionate scrutiny towards digital on this forum. This same level of scrutiny doesn't seem to exist with analog components, and that being the land of $50,000+ vinyl rigs. Yet spending $6,000 on a streamer is inconceivable to some. Perhaps ASR has become stale and the congregation has migrated here.
@niodariNo I will not and what is unsubstantiated? If you had spent 1 hour a week doing charitable work you would not make such statements, you would know.
Happy New Year and make a resolution to serve your community instead of pissing about how we spend our money.
@sonic79I agree with your post. Also they would shite them selves if they only really had an idea of what a great digital rig sounds like. Not the crap Amir peddled.
@jerryg123You have repeated already twice about your very generous charity once a week. Everybody knows about this already, congratulation i also appreciate it and desire you happy new year!
@niodarikind of what I figured “ you didn’t inhale “ and your still a better human than I. Aurenders corporate bio says they have between 51 and 100 employees at they’re plant overseas,10 more stateside, figure another 50 in outsourced manufacturing of parts and misc suppliers. Round it out to 150. All those folks were able to eat and keep the lights on because people like me buy what they have to sell. If people like you keep insisting on pulling back the curtain and exposing them and other high end streamer companies for the charlatans that they are hundreds more will lose their jobs.So please just stop! You dont have to buy one or even believe in them. Just play along, we’re creating jobs and feeding people here for gods sake.
@jerryg123To be fair, not all components that carry the ASR seal of approval are crap. Taking DAC's for example, the Mola Mola Tambaqui is top 10 in measured SINAD and is a top flight DAC by almost all accounts. The Okto DAC8 Stereo (which I own) is also a top measuring DAC and it earned Stereophile's 2021 digital component of the year. The Holo May KTE also measures well and is one of the highest regarded R2R DAC's.
We are all aware of ASR's methodology and ideology, however. They love inexpensive components that meet the approval of their measuring tools. Very little listening actually occurs. I am undecided if this is a blessing or a curse. On one hand you can assemble a measurably perfect system for little cost. On the other hand you are resigned to the belief that you can not trust your own hearing.
I'm not going to get into the moral implications of privilege, I'd estimate all of us audiophiles in top tier here, level of guilt subjective.
I do believe value for money is valid question, personally, I don't see parts and assembly costs of off the shelf streamers to be value proposition. I'm DIY kind of person, so utility one of most important considerations. Business models for off the shelf don't provide me with equivalent utility vs my research, labor time, but that's just me.
Bottom line, each individual undertakes their own cost benefit analysis, vast majority of individuals using high end streamers find them to be worth it, who am I or anyone to question that. Objectively, great variability in streamers, observationally, sound quality correlates with price, and my own experience mirrors that.
It's funny how EVERY thread regarding streamers or DACs turns into this back and forth which provides no value to anyone. I come here to listen to other people's input on what works well for them.....not pissing contests.
I think we need to remember that there are readers on this and all threads who are at every price point, and they deserve to get quality recommendations. And yes I understand that this particular post is in relation to the Aurender N200.
(1) A Bluesound Node 130 (not Node 2i as it does not output USB) is a terrific streamer at it's price point; as long as you have a nice DAC to bypass it's internal DAC and SQ improves dramatically.....especially using USB. Add an upstream DDC like the Denafrips Iris ($550) which reclocks and cleans the signal (galvanically and optically) and output I2S to the Pontus II ups the ante again. Total cost about $1,050 for the Node 130 and Iris DDC.
(2) Step up to the Auralic streamer at $3,200 and yes you will get an improvement in SQ over the Node 130; and add the Iris DDC at $550 and you will definitely be at a level the Node cannot reach. Total cost about $3,750 for the Auralic and Iris DDC.
(3) Move up even further to the Aurender N200 streamer at $6,000 and yes you may get a considerable improvement in SQ over the Auralic, and add a PS Audio Airlens at $3,500 and you will definitely be at a level the Node or Auralic cannot reach. However the total cost rises to about $9,500 for the Aurender and Airlens.
I'd LOVE to have the funds to buy the N200, but that is not my within my financial reality.....thus it's important to find the very best sound I can within my budget. And I'll save my shekels until I can afford an Aurender product. Right now my reality is a Node 130 and a Denafrips Iris DDC, with a Supra Excalibur USB cable ($140) and a Audioquest Vodka 8K HDMI ($300) cable for I2S to the Pontus.
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