I've been a Wilson fan, now on my third series - the as yet (IMHO) unsurpassed for apartment- sized listening, Sophia 3, powered by VAC PHI 300.1 and linked by Purist Provectus cable. I've never looked back.
Still looking for speakers in the 10-20,000 range
I’ve heard Proacs, Personas 3 and 5, Ryans, Wilsons, Wilson Benesch, Monitor Audios, B and Ws and several others in the 10-$20,000 range. My favorite so far is the KEF Reference 3. I would consider the Reference 5 but, as I’ve posted before, there is no place to hear them within 400 miles. Still plan to hear the Focal 2 and 3. Unless I love the Focals, I'm inclined to either go with the KEF Reference 3 or wait a couple of months (or more) to check out the new Magico A3. My room is 24x18. I have Audio Research electronics and 20 plus year old Proac Response 3.5 speakers. It’s been a long process and I’m not sure if I’ll be relieved or disappointed when it ends. Hard to decide if the Magico’s are worth waiting for. Thoughts?
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I'll bet so many of the speakers that others have recommended to you on this great thread sound incredible. I can only speak from personal experience and tell you which speakers finally got me off merry-go-round. They are very polarizing on Audiogon. All I can say is friends/family ask if they can come over my place and just hang out and listen to music. Zu Audio Definition MK. IV. |
If you don't mind spending less money, consider the Tekton Design Upgraded Double Impact or other choices from Tekton. I switched from ProAc Response 2.5s + Sub to considerable improvement. I have not heard all of the others mention in the thread, but the Double Impacts seem to be well received in comparison to speakers in the 10-20k range. Good listening! |
So you have previous ProAcs 3:5s --great Speakers--you have myriad of choices --enough to really spin the head-ha! What I've heard /or owned--picks for perusal Vandersteen Carbon 5A's ProAC Carbon 6 or 8 Revel Salon 2's Tidal Diacera Pianos Not fan of Focals-- to disjointed in their presentation Magicos overly detailed and fatiguing --I'd pass Good hunting Team212 |
I have a dealer friend in another market who is a Focal dealer and he swears by them. I have never heard them personally, but for my money I believe it is IMPOSSIBLE to beat Dyanudio Confidence C2’s. 17.5K for the pair and deals can be gotten out there. 4 ohm speakers love plenty of current so just make sure your amp can deliver the goods. Dyanudio custom builds kit the sounds system for those 1M Bugatti autos, if that tells you anything. This Danish Company has their act together. My ex boss listened to just about EVERYTHING and he was going to but the C2’s but was made a deal he couldn’t refuse and stepped up to the C4’s. They share the same tweeters but play a bit lower than the 2’s. It was a non issue for me as I have two REL sub base systems. |
It depends on what music you listen to and the acoustical environment of your listening room. Based only on what I have heard in my own house, I would narrow the list to: 1.Vandersteen Quatro CT Wood - if you like powered speakers and you listen to rock, pop, and jazz; 2. Wilson Yvette speakers - You can get demos at under $20K, wonderful combination of resolution and musicality; 3. Elac Andante AF-61 floor standing speakers - Only $5K and they sound wonderful - good at bass reproduction and relatively good midrange, a fantastic bargain. -Gerry |
I just got a pair of the Vandersteen Quatro CT's and was able to have them painted in any color I wanted. I chose Audi Havana Black. Had the electrician drop in a 4" LED Daylight can above each one yesterday and man are they awesome. So much metallic flake, lol. The best part is the sound. Speakers are just so personal. I have heard all the speakers that you have on your list and many many more. I personally fell in love with the Quatro's for anything under 25k. I like them much more than the top Paradigm with powered subs and I've heard them now at 4 stores. Always sound the same to my ear and that's harsh on top. some nice speakers on your list, but I hope you go listen to the Quatro's in addition to the others. For many of us, they sold themselves. Great luck. If you are near CT, you can come listen anytime. |
Hi Fast, There are a lot of excellent suggestions here. I would wait if you can and try to test as many speakers as you can. After all it is a substantial investment in your hobby. Here is another company to consider, Specifically the Gibbon X or a used pair of Silverbacks if you can source them on Agon or other like-sites. Extremely musical. http://www.devorefidelity.com IMHO when considering such an investment one of the things I use as a guide is frequency response. The total environmental human frequency response spectrum - All IN - is 15 hz - 150 khz. I believe there is only one company that just recently released a speaker that can accomplish this and the cost is way out of most everyone's budget. If you have the money well ....If not then work towards that Spectrum use it as the base of information towards your end goal while adding in your own personal likes and dislikes along the way. This will help ground your decision and stay within your budget. It will take time, but you end up making a solid decision that will last you for several years. It is a hobby for most and the point is to enjoy the journey have fun along the way. |
I don’t know what your listening to and how but Spendor, Focal, B&W I like Spendor with a nice Tube amp and Vinyl mostly British setup there. Focal runs the home theatre setup, and the top of the line B&w and Focal easily out price your budget but as far as audio differences Spendor and mid level Focals have them beat or on same level. Spendor D7 are around $7-8 grand and with a nice amp It is hard to beat. If your looking for design within your home. I like Focal all day long. So it comes down to your preference & your ultimate use! Good luck! |
I have to go along with bassdude and the others about the Legacy Audio Aeris... If you listen to the Aeris (or pretty much any of the Legacy line up) your search will be over, then you can just sit back and enjoy the music. For the record I don't have the Aeris (yet), but I do have a pair of the Focus SE's and a couple sets of the Studio HD's. My Legacy's not only blew away my Klipsch (RF-7II), but stomped a mud hole in them... Also the wife factor will be taken care of, the wood work of a Legacy is top shelf, and with so many different finishes there is bound to be one that will fix your wife's decor. |
I would second the Confidence C2/REL recommendation. I auditioned the Sopra 2's as well and had no hesitation in going the Dynaudio route. With my electronics, the Focals were harsh and didn't handle complicated stretches of music well . They were faster than the Dyn's and probably soundstaged as well. In the end, the Dyn's did more things better and nothing badly. The base was alright, but the REL made it better and improved imaging as well. Different electronics or different music might lead to different conclusions. |
Lot's of good options depending on your taste. I've heard most of the recommendations and for my ear many are tilted up too much in the high end, but others love that sound. I will often use the term WAF, but to me that just stereotypes us. My wife and daughter hate that expression as they too care about the sound of the music more than the looks. If anything, I'm more into everything looking great, lol. That's why I paid a small uncharge to have my Quatro's painted, lol....I do get a ton of complements on the paint job. Even teh electrician who installed 4" daylight LED's over them said they were nicer than his car's finish, LOL... Sorry, not meant to put down the WAF deal, but many of us also care about looks and functionality of our systems since we can't have dedicated rooms. Good suggestions for auditions for sure. |
Just curious, Why Speakers in such a high price range? Price does not always mean better sound. I can appreciate you can afford it. Sony even makes speakers in that price range. There are a range of wonderful sounding speakers before exceeding $10,000. You really need to demo side by side with your own gear to know which suits your taste? |
He probably has seen and or heard a few speakers in this range and wanted advice before auditions. I had a great pair of speakers and they were only around 8k, but I heard a pair at 14k that was nearly the same, but has built in subs that had room eq and I have a difficult room. Best money I spent on my system. It also took my in room bass from low 30's to mid 20's. I do agree with you 100% that price doesn't mean a think in audio, but the more money you spend, you most often can probably get better sound. |
fast, Did you ever get a listen to the Focal Sopra 2 or 3, or Legacy Audio Focus SE or Aeris? Focal also just came out with Kanta no. 2, which is getting rave reviews. It is not a huge speaker, but the overall sound quality is said to be off the charts. I'm currently considering Focal and Legacy. Beryllium tweeter vs AMT ribbon type tweeter. |
Again, I appreciate all the helpful suggestions. In response to some comments/questions: -I heard the Focal Sopra 3s and liked their full bodied sound and am still considering them- but also hoping to hear the KEF Reference 5 in the same price range, which is not available anywhere near me. -Someone asked why I specified a price range in my initial post. I agree that price and sound quality aren’t necessarily related. But speakers can sell for $100 up to $100,000 or more. In general, I think it’s safe to say that a $100 speaker won’t compare to the $100,000 one. OK-that’s an extreme example but in general I think a $20,000 speaker will out perform a $5000 one. Of course, there are always exceptions. Also, with literally hundreds of speakers on the market I think it helps to narrow down the parameters. Whether you’re seeking advice on this board or visiting a dealer, you can’t consider everything available so size, sound characteristics, price and other things help to limit the many possibilities. -Several people have suggested speakers from small companies which are not widely distributed and not available for audition in my area (I’ve checked on every one of the suggested models). Even some speakers from larger companies-the KEF Reference 5, the higher end Vandersteens and Revels-aren’t stocked by anyone in my area. Manufacturers can be strangely unhelpful. I’ve called Revel three times and sent them two emails with no response. Obviously, I’m not going to consider a speaker I can’t hear. By the way, I’m not in a small town but in a major metropolitan area. It seems like most manufacturers require dealers to purchase their products before the dealer can stock them. It’s way out of my knowledge but I don’t understand why manufacturers don’t loan more expensive products to dealers in order to promote sales, knowing that products which aren’t stocked won’t sell very much. Dealers around me just won’t invest in $10,000 plus speakers since there seems to be a limited market for them. -Bottom line-I’m still looking and listening. It would be nice to hear the Revels, Vandersteens and KEF 5 but I’m not prepared to get on an airplane. I have a short list but still remain open to suggestions. |
what city do you live in? I know when I was going to get a new set of speakers, I ended up getting teh Vandy's from a dealer in NJ, Audio Connection. They are nearly 3 hours away. For a few other speakers that I wasn't going to drive that far for, I found folks online who offered to have me listen. I actually have let a lot of folks over to audition gear that I have. Have made a few friends that way also. I actually have found that a couple of companies had 'dealers' in areas that didn't show up on their sites. |
Heard the Focal Kanta No.2’s with Naim reference gear and I was smitten immediately! It’s been about 40 years or so since I’ve heard a speaker render dynamics, bass definition, midrange presence with a top end that is natural and full of unforced detail. Owned many of the brands mentioned here, but none impressed me so deeply as did the Kanta’s. Gonna have to buy them...oh, and the looks are groovy baby, yeah!! A-3’s are another metal tower with a tweeter on top. The Kanta Time alignment and Quasi D’ Appolito array seem to really blend the sound naturally. So warm, defined and tonaly exquisite:) |
I need to go to the local shop again to hear the Focal's. I have a lot of friends who love them. I used to own a pair fo their Micron's back in the day, when they first started to sell their own speakers. A close friend has the Sopra 2's in his office system and swears by them. Every time I've heard them at various places, I haven't 'gotten' them. There comes a time when I feel it's not just a bad set up for me, but I'm thinking that has to be it. I'm brutal on speakers and feel 'hifi'ish', but folks who's ears I know and trust seem to really like them. Btw, if you haven't had a chance to listen to the Vandersteen Treo CT, which is a bit less than the Kanta 2, it would be a good comparison. I have a feeling that the reason I may not 'get' the Focal's is that I don't love the Beryllium tweeters on any of the speakers I"ve heard them on. I've only heard a diamond driver sound good on the Tidal's too, so that's just me and my ears. It's sure a nice looking and well built line of speakers. I even took one of their models' home a few years ago as I was close to getting it, but in the end, it wasn't what I wanted. I felt badly for the dealer as he had to lug them to and fro, lol. (with MS, I Cna't even help move empty boxes, lol. Glad you like them as that's the only thing that matters in audio as we all hear so differently. |
I'm really enjoying this thread since i'm shopping at the low end of your price range. I have had many, many pair of Kef's and while I love what that uniq driver does well I find kef voices the bass a bit too conservative for my taste. Currently high on my list are the Contour 60 new, salon 2 used VA 'The music', and still a sweet used pair of used R 207/2. Good luck. btw I also notice as we get higher in price with speakers partnering equipment becomes more important. |
The Focal Kanta no2 and Paradigm Persona 3F are absolutely my picks at the $10,000 price point. The Kanta is one of the most forward thinking visual designs I have ever seen, and they have the sound quality to match. They are extremely musical and laid back. Very organic -- almost like a poor man's Gamut (EASILY in the top 5 best speakers in the world). They smoke the outgoing Electras (although I do still think the 1028/1038 be2 in the dark walnut was one of the nicest speaker designs in history (see them in person before commenting). After the unbelievable Aria range, I feel like this is the new direction Focal is going. Drive them with anything, and be rewarded with a huge soundstage, tons of resolution and detail, yet never bright or forward, and unbelievably engaging and musical. Now the Persona -- I have to say technically, it is an even better speaker for the money. A totally different look but still stunning. I still am in awe that Paradigm has made a speaker this good. The 3F and 7F are both under priced. With the right set up (mainly room positioning and acoustics, not speaker cables and power cables, aka throwing money down the drain) they will give you maybe the most holographic and coherent sound you will hear for anywhere near the price. There is something intrinsically special about not only having a beryllium midrange and tweeter, but the fact that they are the exact same material. I don't know if I have heard better midrange anywhere under 60k~ on any speaker when it all comes down to it. These speakers are a little more difficult to get right. If you have ever heard them sounding bright, clinical, etc -- you did NOT hear them. I can go on and on, but I highly recommend listening to these two speakers. I'm eager to also hear the Magico A3, which I'm sure will be great -- although the look isn't even 1/3 as nice as the other two I just mentioned. Either way, sound is most important. Might get a chance to listen to the A3 very soon, so I will post impressions this week. |
I have the KEF Reference 5s and love them. They do everything that you like about the 3s, but just more of it. They are also quite flexible with the type of amp you use with them. Do you want a front row seat in an intimate club? I ran them with a single MC275 and they sounded very warm and smooth and the music just enveloped you. Female vocals and acoustic music would just put you in a trance. I recently switched to EC Nemo mono blocks and they are now just so dynamic and the bass is fast, tight and very controlled. Where the tube sound stage was deeper, the Nemos just exploded the sound stage all around with amazing detail and clarity. As you know from the 3s, the fit and finish on them is wonderful and, though they are large, they are conservative enough to not stand out too much in a room making them very WAF-friendly. I also have a pair of PMC fact.8s in my bedroom system. At the lower end of your budget, they are also wonderful speakers if you are looking for a smaller footprint, yet keep that British sound you enjoy in the Reference 3s. They are also well-made with furniture quality finishes. The bass is better with the KEFs, but the fact.8s are really articulate and a joy to listen to. I highly recommend an audition if you have a chance. |
Thanks everyone. OtherGreg, some questions specifically for you: -Did you love the KEF Reference 5?speakers right out of the box or was there a break in period? If so, how long did it take? -which ports are you using (I know it’s location dependent)? -how far apart are your speakers and how far from back and side walls? Why the questions? I took a chance on the 5s and am still trying to fall in love with them. It’s only been a couple of weeks. I’m using an Audio Research amp and Pre amp—both tubes. The sound so far seems “digital” for lack of a better word-not as full bodied and natural as I hoped for. Also I’m not hearing the same soundstage as when I auditioned the speakers. The treble can be harsh at times. I’ve been moving them forwards, backwards and sideways and experimenting with toe in. So far I haven’t found the magic. Obviously my room and equipment are different but I’m searching for solutions and appreciate any help. |
Hey fast, the Reference 5s do require a bit of break-in to sound their best. I don't really remember but it took a bit of time, for sure. Mine are 10' apart and I'm using the short ports with my speakers 18" from the back wall and 5' from the side walls. They are toed-in slightly so the Uni-Q drivers are pointing over each shoulder in my listening position. I'm really surprised that they sound "digital" using an all tube system. How many hours do you have on them and how hard are you running them? I'd let them break in more and, if you still have get the harsh treble, you might want to give your dealer a call to get some suggestions. |
@ fast, If, after some time, the KEFs still don't float your boat, here you go: http://legacyaudio.com/products/view/focus-xd/ Full range, non-fatiguing sound, and should run a bit less $$ than the Reference 5s. With their internally amplified bass section, Focus XD allows you to use most any amp for the upper drivers. And Legacy Audio speakers LOVE tube amps. Legacy actually demos their speakers with Raven Audio tube amplification at the audio shows, including the upcoming AXPONA in Chicago in April. Now, if you're spending ~$20K on a set of speakers, I don't see how you can beat Legacy Audio Aeris, for overall sound quality. Having heard them multiple times, it's just a revelation to hear what they can do when they are set up optimally. http://legacyaudio.com/products/view/aeris/ |
The new B/W 702 series are a serious attack on the mid-range. Read about them and listen to them. They offer some trickle-downs from their flagship model. Plus you grow them into a HT system. Same story for the MK Sound 300s thought you my benefit with a Sub with each. MKs have always reproduced dead straight neutral. Adrian |
Love this thread. It shows that we all like totally different things. I've heard many of the speakers talked about in the last many posts and only have liked a couple of them. Many I couldn't listen to for more than 30 minutes. That said, many seem to love them. All of us are correct as that's what we seem to like right now, with our gear in our room. I guess that's only true if we actually own the gear we are discussing or have heard them enough times in different places and systems to know that they are just not for us. This is why it's so important to go listen for yourself or you will always be chasing your tail and never finding what you want or think you want. JMHO |
@fast - take a look at the Avantgarde range. They are the most impressive speakers I have heard in the last 2-3 years. I only listened seriously to their Duo model, but the ZERO range that is in your snack bracket ($15000) The Duo is outside your price range, but it was the most "forgiving" speaker from a "placement" perspective - i.e. I listened to them in a rather large demo room with gear all around and their image was was precise, 3D and very large. One of the most invisible speakers I have come across. I did listen briefly to the ZERO - it too was impressive from a fidelity perspective, but I did not have time to really concentrate on imaging. There are many other horns on the market, so perhaps they also would be worth a look - hree's a few http://voltiaudio.com/ http://www.cessaro.de/ http://horns.pl/de/ http://www.lowtherloudspeakers.com/ http://simonmearsaudio.com/uccello-horn-loudspeakers.html Regards |
Indeed, Klipsch Jubilees...You’ll never go back, and your wife will never go back either…to your house. Note that speakers at this level (price) aren’t music specific, and neither are any other speakers for that matter…anybody who thinks speakers that can replicate orchestras are somehow not as adept at Death Metal needs to get out more. Sound dynamics aren’t style specific (there’s simply the ability to provide more or less of that sound). Also, if anybody is willing to spend 10 to 20 grand on speakers, that person should be willing to travel to hear them, which can be used as leverage for purchase, "Hey man…I came all the way from Cleveland to hear these damn things…1200 bucks off or I walk!" So to sum up, the Jubilees are great if you seek more alone time, but based on the specs you’re still gonna need subs and a decent divorce attorney. |
Just reading TAS. The new Magico M3 are highlighted. They finally went to a carbon fiber cabinet. Valin says it is the best cabinet design he has heard. You can get a pair for about $75,000 Alternatively you could get Wilson Beseech speakers made with carbon fiber cabinets, having improving them for 20 years plus. Some on Agon from 5K and up. |
I would get a KEF Blade2 in that price range. You need to get a used pair or demo but I have seen then at $15K and up. I am going to demo a KEF Blade2 at a dealer in Newport Beach, CA soon and he has demo pairs of Ref 5 and Blade2 that he is looking to sell. I should say I am demoing amps for the Blades since I know I will buy either a Ref 3/5 or Blade2 depending on the room. |
