@bdp24
Yep, the night before, and Richard seemed to be in great spirits from what anyone could tell. Strange.
Yea, after I heard the news, as terrible as it was, I was also thankful I got to see them, for what was, their last performance. Sad, but thankful. |
@bkeske: The night before! Upon hearing the news, I for the first, last, and only time cried at the passing of a musician or singer. I'm tearing up now; I loved Richard SO much. So did Clapton. |
@bdp24 And then Richard Manuel committed suicide, a fatal blow. I saw them in concert the night before. I had a great time, even without Robertson, they were great. I was completely shocked to hear that news a day later. |
@tomcy6: Because at the time of The Last Waltz, the plan was to take some time off, then later regroup to recommence recording. Robertson wanted to get off the record/tour/record/tour merry-go-round, which he thought was an unhealthy lifestyle. In his book Testify, Robertson says for some reason that just never materialized. I don't think it could have, given Levon's feelings toward Robertson.
Also, while in '68 Clapton wanted to be in The Band in the worst way, by November 25th of 1976 he had established his own "brand", and had a healthy career that he liked going.
As for The Band, they brought in Jim Weider on Telecaster guitar to replace Robertson, a better player in my estimation. But Weider isn't a songwriter, and I don't think Clapton's writing would have fit The Band. And then there is the fact that Levon didn't want to be a backing band for a frontman, which would certainly have been the public's perception had Clapton joined.
It was their lack of new material (both Rick Danko and Richard Manuel never again writing as they had for Music From Big Pink and to a lesser extent the brown album) that crippled The Band Mk.2. And then Richard Manuel committed suicide, a fatal blow. One of the best singers in the history of Rock 'n' Roll, impossible to replace.
As either Clapton or Springsteen said in one of the clips I referenced in the op, The Band were "A miracle". |
I wonder why Clapton never tried to join The Band after Robbie dropped out? It would have been an interesting experiment and might have given the rest of the guys a much higher profile. Maybe he felt they were too far gone or felt that Robbie was the songwriter and the driving force? |
Yeah @roxy54, I think of The Band (and others like them) as the counter-Counter Culture ;-). The movement they were spearheading was definitely swimming against the tide, and was almost on a cult level. Though their albums did actually sell pretty well, the masses were far more into Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, and soon Black Sabbath, ELP and all the other UK Prog bands.
But your inclusion of The Byrds in the Psychedelia movement is a coupla years behind their timeline. In '68 they were actually a big part of the move into Country, their landmark Sweetheart Of The Rodeo album coming out that year. About as far from Psych as one can get!
The Seatrain album I like most is the second, s/t one. It contains my favorite version of the Lowell George Song "I'm Willin'". Speaking of them, just earlier today I picked up Peter Rowan's album The First Wippoorwill on Sugar Hill (the great Bluegrass label). |
Of course The Band influenced many other bands, but they really did nothing to influence the predominant move toward Psychedelia at the time like the Byrds, Jefferson Airplane and Jimi Hendrix of course.
Other bands that were amazing and mostly forgotten may not have impressed their peers, but left a lasting impression on their fans. In that vein, I was just listening to the first Seatrain disc, which is amazing from beginning to end. I'm sure some would have a field day just trying to figure out which artists influenced their music. |
So done with "the Boss"....and I’m from NJ. He’s so consumed with saying all the "correct things" for all the "right people" he’s liable to "shill" for anything provided he continues to get undeserved rave reviews and exposure for all the crap album’s he’s made post 1983’s Nebraska ("Bruce’s latest is his most groundbreaking"..... "his new album harkens back to Born to Run".......). For an achingly long time, it has seemed to me that most of the Boss’s utterances are purely to build up his "indy cred" for the decision making class simply so that they have more influence through him with his Boomer demographic........not taking anything away from the Band or their great record but the Band’s whole history of musical integrity, seems to me, to be the antithesis of the "Boss" and his highly massaged and inauthentic image (see inexplicably feted Bon Jovi who help covers political messaging with the Gen X demographic).
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In my mid teens I was a huge Dylan fan and saw a "Dylan and The Hawks" (the Band without Levon Helm for that tour anyway) show in Honolulu in 1966...whew...it was the first time anybody had played that arena (called the Honolulu International Center or HIC back then) with their own sound system (on their way to Australia I think) consisting of piles of Altec A7s, and the first time I'd seen Leslie speaker cabinets. An hour or so of Bob killing it solo, followed by him and the Hawks just loud and really powerfully putting on one of the best shows possible...utterly life transforming for my 15 year old self. Big Pink was like something carved out of wood and at the time was also purely amazing, and I basically wore out my first copy the Brown Album and listen to it still. I bought the boxed set reissue/remix thing last year and the vinyl in that set is maybe the cleanest and best sounding vinyl album I own...highly recommended. I saw the Band again in 1972 or so, and later versions without Robbie a couple of times much later. My favorite band through the 70s was the original Little Feat who, for my tastes and that of most fellow musicians I knew back then, were the hottest live band at the time. |
To all of you who actually saw many of the musicians/bands discussed and shared your experiences….love it, thank you!
I was just a little too young and isolated (MS) to have had an opportunity to see & hear them. |
Gee, what memories! Thanks to the OP and all comments for this. Have not thought about this (actual) music in a while--been busy moving.
As for all the various albums mentioned, the NRPS one, all The Band albums, and of course both CSNY, Byrds, and Springfield, and the artists and workers--Hawkins, Dowd, Wexler et. al., makes me nostalgic for those days.
If you read articles from Guitar Player from back then (I have them put away somewhere!) you will see the way these bands influenced each other both technically--GP used to be a technical mag, not sure about now--and what changes went down when each influencer found its way to others music.
What a GREAT TIME for music--all those REAL musicians working on learning and evolving to become better at their craft, listening and working with each other--it was a magic time, well, for me anyway.
The Band remains one of the best ever, and like Paul said of Pet Sounds--it brought forth Sgt. Pepper--real musicians are constantly listening and learning and evolving. The musicians in The Band are superb, and the work they recorded was groundbreaking in many ways. (Reading that Keltner loved Helm's work was fun--he's not exactly a slouch himself...).
Thanks for bringing this thread to this forum. About time we did some thinking about the actual MUSIC!
Cheers! |
I loved Springsteen and the E Street Band. Sincerity. Energy. The singularity of mood and purpose they could invoke. Comedy. Drama. The concerts were long, to be sure, but the numbers never degenerated into endless, self-indulgent jamming...something that afflicted other bands I could (but won't) mention. |
@onhwy61: No disrespect taken! Roger Hawkins is one of my three favorite drummers, about who Jim Keltner says he wishes he played more like. Don’t we all!. I have studied the drumming of Hawkins for years, and benefited greatly from his musical wisdom. Jim also said he would give up his technical abilities in exchange for Levon’s musical sensibilities.
Another real good band were The Dominos, Clapton’s band on Layla. Their drummer was Jim Gordon, as good a drummer as I’ve ever heard. Too bad about his mental and emotional problems, a real tragedy.
The Dominos singer/organist/songwriter Bobby Whitlock is making and frequently posting on YouTube videos recorded in his home, wherein he discusses his entire musical history, beginning with Delaney & Bonnie. He’s very charming and entertaining, and a fountain of information. |
Correction -- meant Roger Hawkins on "Lady Soul".
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The before and after album impact is an interesting idea, but I would then argue that MFBP wasn't even the most impactful album released in 1968. Aretha Franklin's "Lady Soul" takes that prize. People have been trying to sing like Aretha for the past 50 years. Jerry Wexler produced, Tom Dowd engineered with the late great Roger Hood and the Swampers anchoring the band. Eric Clapton even plays on one song.
The Mothers Of Invention's "We're Only In It For the Money" and "Cruising With Rueben & the Jets" also came out in 1968.
My vote for the album that changed rock is 1967's "Velvet Underground & Nico". A critical and commercial disaster, but to quote Brian Eno -- The Velvet Underground didn’t sell many records, but everyone who bought one went out and started a band.
BDP24, nothing but respect for your love of the Band. I'm just quibbling about things that need to be quibbled.
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@sgreg1: Can’t disagree with ya, mate! I had tuned out contemporary Rock ’n’ Roll by the time Born To Run was released, but all the noise about that album sparked my curiosity. I got the LP, and found it to echo (no pun intended ;-) Shakespeare: All sound and fury, signifying nothing. Bruce said his idea for the BTR album was Roy Orbison produced by Phil Spector. Speaking of Roy: have you seen the film A Black & White Night? Bruce’s performance is unintentionally funny; I was actually embarrassed for him.
Bruce’s singing on BTR (and many other albums) exhibits far too much "bluster", Bruce trying waaay too hard. Reminds me of seeing Albert King at The Fillmore; he didn’t have to "try" to sound soulful, it just came out that way. I borrowed Bruce’s previous two albums from a friend, and had to at least give Bruce props for firing his drummer on those albums. Terr-i-ble. What a sloppy, disjointed, awkward mess, the drummer waaay over-playing. He obviously never studied Roger Hawkins (The Swampers), Al Jackson (Booker T & The MG’s), and Earl Palmer (Little Richard), and did not understand the role drums play in Rock ’n’ Roll. It’s great that Bruce finally fired him, but why did he hire him in the first place? His playing ruins those two albums, butchering the songs.
"The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" is everything people say about it, but "The Weight" is the one that still chokes me up. It is---along with "A Whiter Shade Of Pale", " God Only Knows", and "What Becomes Of The Brokenhearted", all masterpieces of songwriting---the most "majestic" song I’ve ever heard. Makes one thrilled to be alive.
@onhwy61: I love the debut by The Electric Flag, and was fortunate in being able to see and hear them live in the Summer of ’68. They were fantastic, one of the best bands I’ve ever seen. The commencement of their set was delayed, Mike Bloomfield nowhere to be found (probably scoring ;-). He finally showed up, jumped on stage, and the band (which included four sax players: two baritone, two bass!) kicked into "Killing Floor", the Howlin’ Wolf song which opens the album. OMG, they were on fire! Unfortunate for the doors, who had to follow them on stage. To characterize them as sounding underwhelming is to be generous.
The only band which comes close to The Band for me are NRBQ, very under-appreciated and acknowledged imo. Their fans include Bonnie Raitt, Nick Lowe, Dave Edmunds, and Elvis Costello, all also huge Band fans. But in saying that, I'm ignoring for the sake of this discussion the great studio bands: The Swampers, The Wrecking Crew, The Motown house band, the Nashville A-list players, Booker T & The MG's (the house band at Stax Records, heard on many recordings). That's another thing that made The Band so unique: a self-contained unit whose musicianship was as good as that of studio players. |
I never got into The Band, I also enjoy threads like this one so I listened to the two albums and came away with the same feelings I had back in '68. Ambivalence, which in this case turns into work to listen.
I'm happy for all the people that are really into it. Just not for me.
This sort of reminds me of a good female friend who states "wow wait 'till you see this girl, she is really beautiful". Only to find that quite the opposite is true. Go figure.
Regards,
barts |
@onhwy61
I so agree about 'The Band' being a masterpiece. The poignancy of 'The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" still brings a tear to my eye, and I'm no admirer of the Lost Cause. But if one is, this song speaks to why. They evoke "Americana" so brilliantly on every track, not equalled by MFBK or 'Stagefright' either, IMO. |
IMO Springsteen is one of the most over rated musicians on the planet. He surrounded himself with great talent to cover up his lack of talent. Did he put on a good show yes but that does not make up for his individual talent that IMO was just not there. Marketing done right will do wonders for people with no talent in any field, need look no further than hollyweird. 99.9% of them have zero talent but have great marketing behind them. |
A lot of fair points, and I fully expected to see @onhwy61’s argument made. Sweetheart Of The Rodeo was big in my small circle of friends (my senior year band included a coupla songs from that album in our repertoire, as well as some Buffalo Springfield songs), as was Dylan’s John Wesley Harding and The Flying Burrito Brothers’ debut.
As for The Band coming out of nowhere with a unique sound, well, not to be argumentative, but they actually did. I have numerous times reminded everyone that Dylan began recording in Nashville in ’65, but that was not because he was "going Country", it was because that’s where the musician’s he wanted to record with were. In 1965 the members of The Band had no idea who Bob Dylan was, nor did they care (their idea of a singer was Bobby Blue Bland, Ray Charles, Muddy Waters, Fats Domino, Little Richard, Hank Williams, and The Louvin Brothers). While the other groups mentioned above had some of their same influences, none shared The Band’s deep Rockabilly, R & B, Gospel, and 1950’s Rock ’n’ Roll roots. Springfield had three singers---as did The Byrds and Moby Grape---but none had a singer of Richard Manuel’s caliber. IMO, of course. And none had a musician of the caliber of Garth Hudson.
Whereas the Sweetheart album was deliberately, overtly Country, in Music From Big Pink and the brown album, The Band wove the thread of their Hillbilly influence into the entire tapestry they wove. It didn’t obviously stick out (though they did include Lefty Frizzell’s hit "Long Black Veil" on MFBP), but their music was subtly infused with that influence. Levon Helm was listening to KDIA out of Memphis, Rick Danko The Grand Old Opry, and their playing and singing absolutely reflects that. The other groups has far less character in their voices than did Levon, Richard, and Rick.
But ya’ll are STILL missing my point! Eric Clapton and Bruce Springsteen (and Nick Lowe) were all very aware of The Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, and anyone else you care to mention. And yet it was Music From Big Pink that knocked them on their asses, not those other’s albums. You may agree or disagree with Eric and Bruce, but that’s beside the point.
Clapton didn’t disband Cream and think "It changed my life" in reaction to hearing the Sweetheart album, The Flying Burrito Brothers’ debut, or any other album you can name, but rather because of MFBP. Springsteen didn’t react to hearing any album but MFBP by thinking to himself "and everything changes".
For anyone who didn’t (or doesn’t) react to Music From Big Pink in the way that Clapton and Springsteen did, so be it. And you can agree or disagree with me (and Clapton and Springsteen) if you wish, but I’m here testifying to the truth of the cataclysmic effect MFBP had on the 1968 Rock ’n’ Roll community. George Harrison flew from England to San Francisco to attend The Band’s 1969 debut show at Winterland. He did not come to America to see and hear Buffalo Springfield---or anyone else, only The Band.
For Clapton, Springsteen, myself, and a lot of musicians I know, there is a musical dividing line as dramatic as B.C / A.D.: Before The Band / everything that followed in their wake. |
Let's also not forget that Love's "Forever Changes" was released in November 1967. More than one critic has named it their top "desert island" record, and for good reason. All of the above-named artists heard it. Maybe a one-off, what with the orchestral bits and largely belated appreciation. But it was very much in the air at the relevant time. |
Thanks guys for bringing up the Byrds. I started listening to rock-and-roll radio stations because of the Beatles (before that I pretty much only listened to Classical), but it was the Byrds that I truly fell for. The soaring harmonies. The chiming guitars. I was too young to see them when they first showed up, but I then saw them every time they played in L.A. I saw them at the Troubadour and either the Roxy or the Whiskey. I might have told this story before, but I saw them at the Santa Monica Civic or the Aquarius, where they they showed up as a trio. David Crosby had apparently quit that day. Some dude in the audience shouted, "Where's David Crosby?" Chris Hillman growled, "He's dead!" McGuinn played both the lead and rhythm guitar parts. A real trooper...
In any case, I stand by my dislike of The Band. Sorry dudes! I just never liked their sound. It seems as if they trudged instead of danced through their songs. To my ears they sounded didactic and whiny, not liberated. |
The "brown album" has long been one of my desert island dics (somehow I never warmed to MFBP) along with "Europe'72". Songs such as "Tennessee Jed", "Brown Eyed Women", "Ramblin' Rose" and "Jack Straw" seem to me to be cut from the same cloth as those on The Band's magnum opus. It's too bad the Dead were never able to record a studio album featuring these tunes, as Hunter had hoped. Nevertheless, to my ears, the overlap between the Dead's early 70's output and The Band is particularly strong-- more so than other group from that period. Others will no doubt disagree. . . |
onhwy61,
I agree with you. For al The Band worship, I really can't think of any bands from the time that even sounded at all like them. I also think that it's interesting that you mention the Byrds "Notorious Byrd Brothers", which I think had a much stronger influence on bands of that time and a longer echo as well, all the way to Tom Petty for one.
And no, Steven Stills wasn't imitating The Band with the military uniform. H said in a recent interview that it was a combative time and he was reflecting that. |
@onhwy61 I bring these up because you're making it sound as if The Band came out of nowhere with a unique sound. But they did have a unique sound, unlike any other at the time, and obviously were a perfect match with Dylan (IMO). I also have those Byrds albums, and was also a Deadhead, who during those years were also heavily influenced by American ‘roots music’, as were their buddies New Riders, or The Flying Burrito Brothers, or Commander Cody, or Neil Young, et al. But you have to agree, The Band was unlike those others, and their difference was noticed both here and abroad. There was never really anyone else like them, they were ‘their own’. Hard to pigeon hole them into any particular category, but their music definitely had ‘American roots’ mixture without being overtly ‘country’ or ‘country rock’ or ‘folk rock’, etc. |
The Weight is such a key song in Easy Rider it cemented The Band’s place in rock history, if for no other reason…and Chest Fever was unlike anything most people had ever heard before. There are other quality cuts but overall, compared to the “brown album”, MFBP just doesn’t have the same cohesive brilliance.
The brown album takes me on a journey EVERY time I play it….and that’s been since it was released. Some albums remind me of people and places….. I can nostalgically drift off with the music as backdrop. The brown album effortlessly focuses my attention…. and all distractions fade. I am refreshed.
Not many albums can work that sort of magic.
The Band wrote/performed many more great songs, but IMHO never generated another complete masterpiece album. |
The Brown Album was the record where Robbie Robertson took control of the group. You can hear it.
Stephen Stills was an army brat who grew up in a number of places, but primarily the Florida panhandle. Confederate trappings were common place in that part of the country. Further regarding Stills, MFBP was released in July, 1968 which is the same month the final Buffalo Springfield album came out. Buffalo Springfield was an interesting mixture of rock, country and folk. And let's not forget The Byrds. "The Notorious Byrd Brothers" and "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" both were released in 1968. I bring these up because you're making it sound as if The Band came out of nowhere with a unique sound. They were one of several groups experimenting with rock and country sounds. I mean Bob Dylan went to Nashville in 1966 to record "Blonde On Blonde". I would also like to direct your attention to another 1968 release, this one from the Electric Flag, "Along Time Comin'". Combing rock, r&b, blues and soul in many ways it parallels MFBP as a roots oriented album. 1968 was an amazing year for music.
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Speaking of the influence the brown album had on The Band's contemporaries:
I went to my local Barnes & Noble this afternoon to return the copy of the new John Hiatt/Jerry Douglas LP I received in the mail yesterday. Even before opening the flimsy shipping carton I could see there was a problem: the carton exhibited a severe dish-warp, so bad that there was no way the LP could be flat.
But I of course opened the carton, and not only was the LP warped, but whomever pulled the album from the rack in the B & N warehouse grabbed it by the corner of the cover, causing the cover to bend and crease around the perimeter of the LP. Cretin!
I intended to have the store order me a replacement copy (it's a B & N exclusive version of the LP: the cover is signed by John and Jerry, and the LP is pressed of black and charcoal vinyl, kinda cool), but it just so happens they had a copy in their small LP island rack, in perfect condition.
Anyway, back to The Band. After exchanging LP's, I went over to the magazine racks to see what was new. There was a new issue of Uncut with Dylan on the cover, and a bunch of pages inside devoted to him. There was also a new Mojo Magazine with Crosby, Stills, Nash, & Young on the cover, the story on them inside devoted to the 50th anniversary of the Deja Vu album.
I for some reason never much cared for the album, and hadn't seen a pic of them in years. This picture really caught my attention: it was sepia-hued, and Stills was wearing a Confederate soldier uniform. That reminded me that the original album had a brown textured cover, very reminiscent of The Band's brown album cover, released a year before Deja Vu. A Confederate soldier uniform, like that Virgin Caine of "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" would certainly have worn? What a coincidence!
Another UK band who mimicked The Band was Brinsley Schwartz; Nick Lowe has stated they were trying to be the UK The Band, failing miserably in that effort. Everybody musician I knew completely changed his approach to making music in the wake of the brown album. Guitarists ditched their Les Paul's and Marshall stacks, replacing them with Telecasters and small combo amps (the Fender black-face Deluxe Reverb being a favorite, along with the 1950's tweed Bassman), Drummers sold their second bass drum and extra toms---returning to playing a simple 4-pc kit, and tuned the drums low and dead, to get Levon's "thumpy" sound. Being English and having the "Rock Star" look was out, being American (or Canadian ;-) and looking working-class was now cool.
Of course, this was all happening on an underground, cult level. In the real world Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath were what normal people were listening to, along with all the Progressive bands my kind had no use for or interest in. |
Richard Thompson and the rest of Fairport Convention were another totally floored by Big Pink when they first heard it, and also their 2nd LP. It was The Band’s music that lead Fairport to dig deeper into their own English folk music roots and mix it with rock. Just as The Band did with various American roots music. Fairport may have never became what they did without that influence. |
I am lucky enough to be one of 106 people in the audience at an outdoor concert at Levon Helm's studio in Woodstock this weekend, celebrating what would have been his 81st birthday. Chris Thile is fronting the "Midnight Ramble" band. I have been listening to a lot of the The Band to prepare :). |
I never warmed to The Band, this despite (or perhaps because) I must have heard the Big Pink LP thousands (okay, maybe only hundreds) of times at buddies' houses through the years. I went to a special pre-release screening of the movie, as well. To my ears they were whiny, forced and slow. Yeah, I know... Dem's fightin' words! |
The brown album contains more of what we think of as The Band "sound" and style. I complete understand preferring it to MFBP (I myself did for years), but the point of this thread is to celebrate the impact MFBP had on the musical community in 1968. And it’s not an exaggeration to say that in 1969 the brown album revolutionized Rock ’n’ Roll music, and in a more accessible way than had MFBP. MFBP is very sneaky! ;-)
Jim Keltner still marvels at Levon Helm’s drumming on MFBP, which is absolutely brilliant. The drumming on the brown album is also marvelous, about half the songs featuring pianist Richard Manuel on Levon’s Gretsch kit. Richard is a fantastically musical drummer, and a very witty, creative one. Yes, there is such a thing an witty musicianship.
I was completely consumed by the first two albums of both Cream and Hendrix at the time of MFBP’s release (June, 1968), and didn’t "get" The Band AT ALL. It wasn’t until a year after it’s release that I had evolved to the point where I was finally capable of doing so. When the brown album came out I was ready for it, and listened to it constantly for a coupla years, absorbing not just it's music and lyrics, but the lessons they had to teach.
The brown album made almost everything else irrelevant to me, including Cream and Hendrix. Clapton was so shaken by MFBP he told Jack & Ginger that he was done with Cream, traveled to West Saugerties (the town in which the Big Pink house is located), hanging out with The Band as he tried to get up the courage to ask them to invite him to join. In the film Eric says "I thought maybe they could use a rhythm guitarist or something." ;-) |
+10 for The Band! I was listening to it in 1969! Still their best work! |
Certainly a matter of taste. I think it's good, but never saw the greatness that a lot of people see in it. |
MFBP is obviously a great and influential recording, but in my mind it will always be a Bob Dylan/The Band album, whereas, the self titled The Band album is truly The Band. Taste is personal, but I much prefer the brown album. "King Harvest", "Whispering Pines", "Jawbone" and "Unfaithful Servant" are peak level The Band. They were real good on MFBP, but they got great with the second album.
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