Like almost every other industry, , there has been a revolution in computer aided design, modeling, measurement, and analysis. Some companies like the Harman group with Revel and JBL have really embraced this and been very successful in improving speakers designs.
Speakers: Anything really new under the sun?
After a 20-year hiatus (kids, braces, college, a couple of new roofs, etc.) I'm slowly getting back into hi-fi. My question: is there really anything significantly new in speakers design/development/materials? I'm a bit surprised that the majority of what I see continues to be some variation of a 2- or 3-way design -- many using off-the-shelf drivers -- in a box (usually MDF at it core) with a crossover consisting of a handful of very common, relatively inexpensive components. I'm asking in all sincerity so please don't bash me. I'm not trying to provoke or prove anything, I'm just genuinely curious. What, if anything, has really changed? Would love to hear from some speaker companies/builders here. Also, before one of you kindly tells me I shouldn't worry about new technologies or processes and just go listen for myself -- I get it -- I'll always let my ear be my guide. However, after 20 years, I'm hoping there's been some progress I may be missing. Also, I unfortunately live in a hifi-challenged part of the country -- the closest decent hifi dealer is nearly 3 hours away -- so I can't just run out and listen to a bunch of new speakers. Would appreciate your insights.
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Hi. OP here. So, my current speakers are Monitor Audio Silver 6's that I bought used around 15 years ago for just $600!! I know these are entry-level hifi speakers at best, but I actually really enjoy them. I currently drive them with a NAD M10, which I also realize is not the last word in high end, but it's so dang convenient. As I was thinking about upgrading speakers, I was just curious how much the technology had really changed. For example, of Monitor Audio's current speaker offerings, the model that appears to comes closest to my old speakers is their new Silver 200 7G, which goes for around $2,000/pair. And it got me wondering just how different are these speakers, from a materials/technology/design perspective, from what I currently have? (I hope a lot!) Again, I know the proof is in the listening, but I'm more than a 4-hour drive from the nearest MA dealer. Also, to be clear, I'm not picking on MA at all -- I'm just using them as an example as I own some. I do think the comments regarding DSP speakers is very helpful. |
Right! And all Speakers are not designed equal for sure... Inside of a certain minimal quality cone response domain it is certainly possible to improve at high cost. but better clarity and less cone distortion, so great it will be, will not nullify the minimal lower cost design working especially in a passively well treated room and in a mechanically controlled one...An improvement dont nullify something or all design from which it improve upon ... All aspects of sound are not only frequencies response accuracy of the speakers but also the room response to the speakers and a part of the superioir clarity and except for better dynamic and better timbre accuracy gained whith better working cone design , there exist also, imaging, soundstage, listener envelopment, which depend also nore of the room response itself and not only from the speakers response especially if this higher end cone is not in a well treated and well acoustically control room to begin with... Then in S.Q./price ratio acoustic treatment and acoustic mechanical control is better improvement than just higher end speakers in a normal room, compared to speakers of a less costly design in a highly controlled room ... The better bang for the buck is always acoustic in my experience.... Some vibrations control, and decreasing of the electrical noise floor with many simple solutions will help also greatly... All that is a simple calculus S.Q./price ratio ... Acoustic is always the main factor for me up to a pont...Bad or not so well designede speakers cannot for sure be redeemed by room acoustic...
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True. People talk about cables, fuses, mechanical isolation and other tweaks… long before considering the speaker’s fidelity.
@pedroeb - Obviously (or maybe not), I think it is important. The Accuton may work similarly in the woofer/MR. Just focussing on the speakers is probably good for the OP. But deciding between passive and active is worthwhile. If the OP has speakers already, then just staying with those seems like the most cost effective. They can always look at room treatments and room correcting amps/DSP, which may be a better bang/buck. |
what changed ? the most disgusting thing is that the level of the music itself (as the art and skill of the performers) ... has monstrously degraded ... want advice? - don't spend too much on equipment... There is progress in the industry in class D amplifiers... advances in cables (there were just a lot fewer of them before)... |
@pedroeb is this it?
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I recall seeing a video on YouTube (sorry I don't have the link) that showed a cone flexing and going out of shape as it moved in and out, so the selection of cone material by the manufacture is really important. |
@hilde45 I mean “B”.
Some great examples ^there^. The other (related) item is room correction for passive speakers. There are many DSP solutions (some automatic), and at least 1 analogue multi band 20 to ~200 Hz solution. So the OP needs to likely narrow down things a bit. |
@holmz Not sure what you're saying. Are saying something like, (a) "There was such a thing as "materials science" back then? That's too obvious a point for me to assume you're making. The other option is that you're implying something like, (b) "Not a lot of progress has been made in materials science as it applies to audio." Do you mean (a) or (b) or something I'm missing? Thank you. |
Interesting discussion. I would have thought that the "materials science" factor, mentioned by a couple folks here, would have answered the question as "yes," but apparently this factor is just a minor one in the eyes of some. Hmmm. I guess I really don't have a good grasp on what, overall, makes a speaker design "different" in a significant way. |
In the active speaker space ^this^ is clearly true. If the OP is looking for passive, then it gets more nuanced.
Which area is that? Flagstaff, Idaho, or Wyoming? The other problem is that the dealer has an advantage in that they
Unless you bring your own content there are a lot of variables that will alter what sounds good in your space relative to theirs. But it is worth listening. Just also worth knowing that one cannot remember sounds too well over a time gap between shops.
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I think advancement in speakers is similar to advancement in other electronics like TVs and computers. Many things are similar and there's amazingly good speakers at reasonable price points. The higher in price you look - the companies have invested in computer modeling, material science efforts resulting in step change improvements. A $500 speaker 10-20 years ago will not hold a candle to many of the $500 speakers of today. |
A very few speakers from 20-40 years ago had no resonant cabinets. There are a very limited number of cones that do not distort and changes shapes as breakup modes. Some motors are more linear, but not every manufactures uses those… only a few. Diffraction is better understood, but there are still lots of cabinets where diffraction is an issue. Good designs from the past are still good today, and many speakers today and heavy on the marketing. |
The biggest step forward was the improvement in the crossover parts quality. Mainly massive leaps in capacitor technology are responsible for most of the sonic improvements we hear over 20 years ago. Basically, take a top speaker from 20 yrs ago, change crossover parts to current high quality parts (caps, resistors, inductors, wiring, solder), and it will compete at the same level as top performers today. AKA: you have a 20-30y old speaker you love, just bring the crossover up to our age, and you have arrived. There was a trend though in the past 20 yrs: the voicing moving away from high fidelity to high end. That is, from a balanced natural sound towards a bigger show, enhancing apparent detail level at the cost of compromised tonality. A second strong trend of the past 2 decades: loudspeakers are getting harder to drive, impedances are sinking lower, forcing you towards solid state amplification. This provides lesser dynamic range and dependency on very high damping factor and high wattage.
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I think all the basic technologies were developed decades ago, electrostatic, ribbon, AMT, dynamic… etc. But the progress of implementation has simply been a game changer; continued incremental improvement. I was in love with electrostatic and the ribbon speakers for over 30 years … but after 10 years of listening to live acoustic music realized why traditional dynamic speakers are the most common. They are capable of reproducing the most realistic musical sound… and decade after decade of advancement has made a huge difference in their ability to present coherent and musical output… as opposed to some exaggerated and magical sounding aspect. Advances in building enclosures, drivers and crossovers has been phenomenal. You can see my systems under my UserID. |
I would say that it's down to refinements of existing technologies and passive components for crossovers. I believe that with all of the time that's passed, the ultimate success of any speaker is down to the talent of the person or persons who voice the speaker, even though of course the final sound is partially dictated by the room that it's used in. |
Speaking of MDF, in the last few decades speakers have been developed with more ambitious cabinets in terms of construction and materials. Brands like YG, Magico and Rockport offer a refinement in sound that excludes MDF speakers, imo. While using similar cabinets, YG has also gone from paper to aluminum drivers, completely changing their sound. |
The basic designs may be similar to the way they were 20, 30, 40+ years ago, but materials, manufacturing and engineering have become incrementally better each year. Today there are manufacturers that sell direct-to-consumer and will ship gear to you for 30 day trials. Their entire business model is built around that. There are also retailers like Audio Advise or Crutchfield that have similar models. If you're looking to purchase used and you're in a more remote area, you can just purchase gear from here and other similar sites, then sell off what you don't want.
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