I'll second the Tekton innovations. My 4 1/2 foot Pendragons with the 7 speaker array and upgraded wiring and caps Delivered to me for $2550. Nothing I've heard under 5K comes close to the Music these make. Tekton Design.
Speakers: Anything really new under the sun?
After a 20-year hiatus (kids, braces, college, a couple of new roofs, etc.) I'm slowly getting back into hi-fi. My question: is there really anything significantly new in speakers design/development/materials? I'm a bit surprised that the majority of what I see continues to be some variation of a 2- or 3-way design -- many using off-the-shelf drivers -- in a box (usually MDF at it core) with a crossover consisting of a handful of very common, relatively inexpensive components. I'm asking in all sincerity so please don't bash me. I'm not trying to provoke or prove anything, I'm just genuinely curious. What, if anything, has really changed? Would love to hear from some speaker companies/builders here. Also, before one of you kindly tells me I shouldn't worry about new technologies or processes and just go listen for myself -- I get it -- I'll always let my ear be my guide. However, after 20 years, I'm hoping there's been some progress I may be missing. Also, I unfortunately live in a hifi-challenged part of the country -- the closest decent hifi dealer is nearly 3 hours away -- so I can't just run out and listen to a bunch of new speakers. Would appreciate your insights.
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Line arrays have appeared several times over the years and most have been very interesting and very good. Pipedreams come to mind. But the latest and most interesting are Arions. I have a Mundorf AMT in my Tetra 606s. Dipole, they produce open and clear trebles. In the YouTube from the Florida Audio Show, the sound I heard from the Arion/Audio Research room was beyond any of the others from this show. This was especially evident in a drum solo on a LP. The presence and impact was unlike any I have heard. This lead me to exchange several emails with Arion and brought me to the point of almost going to Charlotte. If I ever wanted to change speakers, Arion would be on the top of my list. Even only hearing a MP4 YouTube! |
Very true. Nothing really new at any price point tho I still like a standard Brit Box as much as anything. All else is window dressing.
Absolutely. To think out of the decades old box is fairly easy, I'm sure we could all do it, but to bring it to the market takes an awful lot of ingenuity and guts. The usual obstacles of price and consumer expectations are always there obstructing your way. The biggest one, however, may be that undefeatable foe, domestic acceptability. It's so formidable, that it's even more or less seen off most of those large loudspeakers that previous generations got to enjoy. I was at lecture where I heard a prominent designer unabashedly declare that he began his new design from the premise that it must be domestically acceptable. That is to say, a slim cabinet. Of course, there are always constraints in anything you do, but to see sound quality demoted in such a way is always disappointing. Therefore we should always give credit to designers like Hiroshi Kowaki who bring us products like the TD712z, or Lawrence Dickey with his dynamic Vivid Audio speakers. Neither of these designs can be called your typical box, but alas neither also seemed destined to be commonly found either. The TD712z mark 2 is certainly the speaker I'd most want to hear. It's already well over a decade old and still no sign of a mk3. I guess when your working at the periphery of what is possible, time moves slowly.
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Another way to look at speakers and design is to study the company. Companies have cultures and some are in for profit (the big ones) and have a quarterly report that drives everything, including engineering budget to invent or build new things. They hire the top engineers and have the brain power to develop new ideas. These engineers might have a revolutionary idea but whether they can pursue it depends on if it will make more money. These companies have a board, have an owner(s) who are not engineers, a larger staff with a CFO and very formal company structure. They move forward new ideas that improve income- period. The small companies are more often Engineering driven, and they will develop a new idea even if it puts them out of business (engineers are often not good business people). They may struggle with staying around, but they are constantly developing new new new. We can all think of companies like this. I think of PS Audio, Cardas, ATC, Kii, etc. people like that. They have an engineer at the helm and he calls the shots, win or lose. We may not always agree with them, but they break new ground. They will not be cheap products and are often the most expensive. So if you want new tech, look to the engineering based companies. If you want a deal, look to the manufacturing based companies. And stay aware of brands that change hands, as the brand value may have arisen through engineering, but the new owners see that brand as a way to grow the business through manufacturing. This has happened quite a few times lately with major Danish and English brands. Brad |
@hilde45 sure, at the upper end there have been advances, but at the that higher end, they were doing good work 20 years ago. That link with the video up the page would be an example… but who exactly is running those drivers? We do not see them on any $2000 pair of speakers. Do they sound good, yeah they are great. Take the OP’s speakers, or say the Moabs, and I doubt that we find anything earth shattering in terms of the driver technology. I doubt that the drivers would more than $10-$30 each. Maybe they are better than the $20 drivers 20 years ago… but how would we know? There are still lots of speakers that have cabinet resonances these days, and they are using the same MDF and glues that they were using 2 decades ago. So something with bracing design and dampening is lacking… and that knowledge and material existed decades ago. ——— The AMTs that @arion described are a bit of a different beast… They might cost a lot more than the $20 drivers that I have been referencing. Sure technology trickles down, But I am not sure it trickles down to $2000 range? It might. ——— The Monitor web site shows only minimum impedance, and sensitivity, and not impedance versus frequency, nor much else. So we are sort of assuming that the rest is OK. But we really have no way of know much about them from the web site, other than the basics. @jaybird5619 if you are in the SE, then maybe consider contacting Erin at Erins Audio Corner and have those Monitor speakers put onto his Klippel. Then we will know what they do, and whether new drivers and crossovers would be worthwhile. |
@holmz I think we’re missing each other due merely to semantics, and I’m happy to let it rest. What has been said in this very interesting thread has gone way beyond resonances and has included materials in cones/drivers, ribbon tweeters, and other elements involved in making speakers. In your perspective (if I have your position right) these are minimal or even insignificant advances. To my mind, they seem substantial, and some here on the thread have agreed with that position. (Cf. decooney who worked in the industry and just said,
But I’m not an engineer or in the industry at all, so I cannot really judge what should count as a genuine advance. You seem confident that you know, so I will just let the issue/distinction rest. |
@hilde45 I think that we are probably more in alignment than not. Distortion The new Purifi motors, as well as the ScanSpeak motors address more linear motors assemblies. There are also some baskets which are stiller and reflect less energy forwards.
Resonance There were great cabinets in the 80s and 90s which lacked resonances. And even better ones now.
Diffraction: Diffraction is better known and accounted for now, but maybe not 100%
And that is only the mechanical part. There is also the cross over parts, etc. So yeah we are chipping away at it, but as the market is a driver, low cost usually results in things being cut so the technology is replaced with “good enough”. Ideally we get really good speakers and they last a life time.
I’ll take a deep breath and you sir, have a nice evening. |
@hilde45 Or, making your old speakers sound better is another option for some models if you don’t like new speakers. Can be fun. Wimslow, Troel’s Gravesen, Madisound, GR Research, others out there just to name a few. Wimslow: https://wilmslowaudio.co.uk (UK) Troels: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm#Up-Grade_Kits_For_Vintage_Speakers) (DEN) Madisound: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/madisound (USA) Referrals/Upgrades: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/speaker-repair (USA) GR Research,upgrades: https://gr-research.com/speaker-upgrades/ Neals:
Simply Speakers:
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@holmz Thanks for going into more detail, and I was being earnest when I said I wasn't really able to make a judgment. If you say that not much advance has been made in materials for the last twenty years, I can only just say "I don't really know how to judge that statement" and will leave others the happy chore of either affirming or denying your claim with evidence they find salient. I'm here to learn, and you're contributing to that, so thank you! |
@hilde45 I am not an expert, it is just my perspective.
My 35 year old speaker were great in the 80s. And they are still pretty good. But then how do we define good, really good, great, and exceptional? I have offered my opinion that distortion, compression, directivity, impulse response and step response as metrics which can offer us some insight. Unless we have those metrics we can only imagine. So I, like you, also do not know how to judge statements (nor how to judge subjective descriptions). Unless a particular speaker has addressed some component of the above list then I can only guess that they made a change that may or may not be working towards something. But there is no easy way to understand what it means in terms of performance or sound quality. So yeah I am not sure that my perception is true, it is just the description of what I perceive from my filtered view. |
I am unable to evaluate speakers by reading some measures and i dont think what is published in the official specs is anyway all that matter... Many great speakers were made in the past 50 years...I owned Tannoy dual concentric gold speakers and they can rival many other box speakers of today...Or even magneplanar BUT IN THE RIGHT ACOUSTICAL CONTROLLED ROOM...I know because i prefer my Mission in my dedicated room which are less sophisticated than my Tannoy to big magnepan in a bad room which i listened to with a friend...An no question that big magnepan in a dedicated room are top, even over the Tannoy probably... Speakers is one thing, but people must not forget the room importance...Speakers EXIST in their room, not on a specs sheet or in a reviewer room... 😁😊 A room must be dedicated to a speaker and acoustically treated and specifically controlled for it only...it is what i learned how to do in the last 2 years and this is not very well known in audio circle by the way.... Not surprizing because it is complex and impossible to do in a living room...And it takes me months for the mechanical tuning non stop ...I am retired... 😁😊 But trust me for any speakers there will be no relation between the sound quality BEFORE and AFTER the mechanical control in place ... Passive material treatment is good but not enough... Acoustic is NO LESS important than even speakers design...For now.... I choose my actual speakers Mission Cyrus 781 because they were a deal at 50 bucks and anyway the top of the Mission brand....
No doubts in my mind because speakers are very complex and of various type and materials there is always continuous innovation around the world... But the time between an innovation and the necessary publicity to make them well known is calculated in years not in months... Then i am sure that there exist many revolutionary design unknown of most of us all around the world in small companies..,They come and they go...But they can stay a legendary well designed product at relatively low cost and be replaced in the public favor by other good products... Think about the SPICA speakers... Who remember them now? i am sure they are not less good now like in the years 80 where they were very well reviewed...I look for some before the Mission Cyrus deal i take.... 😁😊 To be frank i dream to buy one pair some day, not to upgrade because i am satisfied with the Mission Cyrus but now i know how to dedicate a room acoustically around any type of speakers, i want to try a new type of speakers and dress the room for them....A kind of acoustical challenge... https://spicaspeakers.com/specifications/spica-reviews.php
Anyway i will not upgrade my Mission speakers.... It will be mission impossible because of the high price i will pay for upgrading this 30 years design with a wonderful bass...And cabinet design well done for sure... With heavy damping and 2 set of springs on each one of them i am in heaven... I am anyway very curious about new technology for speakers and i dont doubt that some new technology exist already unknown to us....Anyway we must listen to a speaker to evaluate it... A new technology CANNOT be known by many people in his first years.....Except for very well known design with ton of reviewers like Tannoy or Mission which we can buy without listening them before like i did with total confidence......By the way it is me who redacted this short impression of the Mission which was confirmed by another audiophile... 😁😊 Take it with a grain of salt, reviews means something in great numbers...And even if positive can put you on a bad track anyway....
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Would be nice to know your budget. If you think the speaker industry has stood still over 20 years, well then go buy some vintage speakers or stay with what you have. Ignorance is bliss. That said, there have been meaningful developments in design, crossovers, drivers, and cabinets. Just a couple examples, I agree with a prior post about Spatial and would add Boenicke. Even If you’re serious you should travel to a show or two or to go to some dealers for speakers you’re interested in. If you’re serious about this, IMHO it’s well worth the effort/expense, and FUN. Best of luck. |
In the 1920s-30s, the world's largest corporations used nearly unlimited resources and the best engineers around to design almost all loudspeaker types we use today. Some from that era are still considered to be wonderful sounding and are highly desired today. http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/lmco/shearer.htm https://www.martinlogan.com/en/electrostatic-loudspeaker-history |
Very interesting fact for me.... I already knows that many type of speakers existed for a long time, but these articles express it clearly... Thanks... Fort sure there is innovations about all aspects of speakers design each year it is simple to verify... It is also simple to EXPERIMENT that acooustic of small room make all the difference in the world for ANY speakers type... Then nevermind your speakers choice the biggest improvement will come from the small room treatment and acoustical mechanical control...Simple to verify if you listen to the same speakers in a room well treated and under mechanical control, before and after, or if you listen the same speakers in any different room... Why? because the perception of ALL acoustic cues are completed and translated only wheen the interaction between the speakers and the room is coming to your ears/brain in two way because you have 2 ears and by 3 sources: two speakers and the room itself... Timbre, dynamic, imaging, soundstage,listener envelopment, etc, any acoustic cues result from the speakers/room relation to your ears...No acoustical cues is ACOUSTICALLY contained in the source, the acoustical cues in the source are an analog/digital information about the recorded acoustical original chosen cues who wait to be translated by the relation speakers drivers/room walls and acoustical content....Acoustic experience is not the analog/digital written information, this information need to be physically translated to reach your ears...It is described by two complementary science : physical acoustic and psycho-acoustic... The digital or analog MAP of waves in an album or cd is not a listened wave coming from a speaker/ room... You need wood and air to have fire, you need physical translation of wave phenomemon in air to have sound... What audio call material REPRODUCTION of sound in the analog/digital engineering perspective will be better described as an acoustical TRANSLATION between two environment modulo human ears...
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Yep - new stuff is happening, and that is a general fact.
How would one be going about knowing whether any of the new tech is in the speakers he mentioned?
This whole thing is like like talking about transportation being improved and pointing to mag-lev trains and Virgin corp tourist space flights as proof. So the technology trickle down is more “hopeful” in the context of the OP’s $2000 speaker… than something factual on a different brand’s $10000 speaker set. We literally have no idea on these Mission Audio speakers other than their sales pitch, and reviews. Their website is somewhat thin on metrics, so how do we know what is happening and what tech entered into them? https://www.monitoraudio.com/en/product-ranges/silver-series-7g/silver-200-7g/ Being personally unable to point to any facts, I have to encourage the OP to continue being happy with their existing MA speakers, until they have a way to verify that the new ones are a worthwhile improvement. |
In the 1920s-30s, the world's largest corporations used nearly unlimited resources and the best engineers around to design almost all loudspeaker types we use today. Some from that era are still considered to be wonderful sounding and are highly desired today.
http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/lmco/shearer.htm https://www.martinlogan.com/en/electrostatic-loudspeaker-history
An excellent post that supports what many of us have been saying. High performance loudspeakers were already capable of great performance decades and decades ago.
The main area targeted by research nowadays seems to be focused around designs that are considered to be 'domestically acceptable'. For sure, many of us here are prepared to sacrifice a certain amount of domestic acceptability (if not quite the Shearer Horn) for sonic gain, but evidently the vast majority of loudspeaker buyers are not. Perhaps therein lies the problem as it's difficult to see how relatively small slim tower speakers can ever sound as good as some of the behemoth designs featured in the 2 websites linked above. The fact that some of these new designs, despite the size constraints, have even gotten fairly close is a testament towards some of the design breakthroughs we have seen in the last few decades. Especially when set up carefully in a sympathetic room with a sympathetic system driving them.
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I design manufacture collect restore all types of loudspeakers I get my hands on the most advanced transducers many times far before they hit the market for consumers. I assist in the development of transducers. And I keep a Shearer horn about because after all this time we have not bested that design and its essence is still with us today. I've had many jaded audio professionals hear the Shearer horns and have to rethink what progress we have really made since the 1930s. If you compare a modern BE dome tower to a Shearer it sounds like a toy compared to it. We lose so much sound quality to convenience don't fool yourself into thinking you have the absolute sound. |
Do a Linkwitz LX521 DIY project and you'll have your "Forever Loudspeaker." And it won't cost you $30,000. |
Hi Jaybird. I had the MA Gold Ref60s in the past. They were excellent for the money. Their sound was clear and engaging. Fairly balanced. Compare the MA Gold R60 with a Magico S3 or an Evolution Acoustics Micro One, and it becomes clear the MA is not capable of the resolution and balance of those mentioned. Both the above are more open in the midrange especially, and much more resolved across all frequencies. It doesn’t sound like a huge difference, but from someone very familiar with your MAs, believe me, it is a case of ‘night and day’. The Evolution Acoustic Micro one is a small narrow-baffle standmount with two ceramic drivers flanking the centrally mounted tweeter. It is extraordinary for its size. The soundstage and presence for a smaller speaker is breath-taking. The Micro One has slighty less low bass presence than the MA, but is more dynamic, resolving, timbrally and tonally accurate. The Micro One presents a more real-life scale visceral sonic picture, which is is shocking for casual non-audio ‘normies’ because the MA is a ‘full-range’ floorstander. The Micro One cabinets are constructed of baltic birch hardwood. The MA cabinets are constructed of plywood (if I remember correctly) with a veneer. The layered baltic birchwood cabinet of the Micro One is much stiffer and more inert. My son’s Magico S3 V1 are in my humble opinion, a masterpiece of audio engineering. The S3 constructed of ultrastiff and well-damped extruded aluminium monocoque cabinet enclosure with carbon midrange drivers, beryllium tweeters and ultra stiff aluminum cones. The eliptical crossovers, made from the finest components, are also highly innovative. If you are looking for a speaker to really rock your world, and you have a budget of say 50 Benjamin Franklins give or take one or two kay, look at used pair of Magico S1 or perhaps the new A3. The advancements and execution of those speakers will bring you much closer to audio nirvana than your MA Silvers.plus this will get you state of the art speaker tech. |
Shearer designs were the 1st time and phase matching designs they also featured pattern control. The W bin many of the early Shearer designs used is still current in pro audio and in theaters. Shearer horns have a near realistic sound quality I have had people walking to my house ask me if I had a band playing. I have never had anyone think a conventional audiophile system sounded like the real thing. To this day I incorporate what they learned during the Shearer horn into modern and up-purposed designs that can do what Shearer does but also what a good audiophile loudspeaker does. |
I have found that a lot of speakers are difficult to listen to for more than it takes for the crystal sound and v deep bass takes to dissipate. At first many Of the high end speakers will dazzle the listener but for extended listening time it falls short . try Elac or Epos bookshelf and a fraction of the expense but listenable!
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I work with Vandersteen Audio. In the last 25 years Vandersteen has created a line of speakers with powered bass and 11 bands of analog EQ, so they fit int most any room. They have furthered driver technology using a unique sandwich of balsa and carbon fiber that carries a USA patent. They have created an inert carbon fiber box-in-a-box cabinet construction that measure as good as any other box invention to date. Vandersteen extended their "perfect piston" patented technology to tweeters incorporating this into four levels of speakers starting at $10K per pair. Meanwhile, they maintain the original product that put them onto the audio map, the notable Model 2 speaker. This Model 2 is now in its 8th generation of refinement. This is a part of the developments and the constant pursuit of materials and ideas that enhance your emotional involvement with your system. If you want to know more, pick up the phone and call Vandersteen. Richard Vandersteen is on the phone at sharing his enthusiasm for audio, and his over 50 years of knowldege, or come see him on April 7th in San Diego at Stereo Unlimited, and check out the Vandersteen Amplifiers that power the upper part of the speakers. Now that is unique, a high pass amplifier that does not have to power big woofers and is free to run with zero feedback.
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They are not real new but ten years ago there was a company called some phase that made an inverted dome speaker where the theater was in the center I have a set they are tonally beautiful. As a point of reference I also have a pair of harbeth slh5 and a set of equation 25 had a pair of maggie 3.3 and a set of kef reference 3 so that may help you know what I like. I have no plans to chance the dome phase speakers nor the other two that I currently own. Regards |
I've been an audio nutjob since the 1980s. In the last ~15 years, all the audio that mattered to me had to fit in a 13' x 13' home office. Now I have 2 systems here: the main one is speakers + amp + sub + DAC + 2 headphone amplifiers; side-system is headphones only (2 headphone amps). As you can tell from this paragraph, high end headphones have become a big thing for me. But I've also had 6 or 7 pairs of speakers, powered & passive, through this system over the years. Along with all the headphones, some consider SOTA/TOTL, I've concluded that what matters most (and always did) is IMPLEMENTATION. That's a combination of ingenious design, careful parts selection, great construction, and listening/listening/listening to one's own product. Sure certain parts (mainly capacitors, resistors, air chokes, transformers) have reached new theoretical heights. But a bad designer can make a bad speaker out of spectacular parts; and the inverse. Right now I'm auditioning a headphone mfr's loaner (ZMF Atrium) of a model that will do a wide launch in a week. The owner/designer is gifted: for this headphone he patented a new damping architecture for each earcup, and damned if it doesn't work totally & completely. This sound is spectacular, something completely different. It's all about IMPLEMENTATION... |
@jaybird5619 - since you are in the Atlanta, GA area, I'd suggest joining the Atlanta Audio Club. They are a great bunch of folks, and being a member will enable you to meet and attend listening sessions at a number of member's homes. This will give you direct experience with a range of speaker systems, many fairly current in their design. The club is also starting to have in-person events that may give you additional exposure.For my own journey, I'm starting to explore single-driver speaker systems with no crossovers. There are significant physical limitations to such designs, but remarkable progress has been made in driver technology to minimize the effect of compromises here. Examples include Audience, Omega, and Pearl, but there are many others. Welcome back! |
There's a distinction between an older design and an older speaker per se. The prevalent issue it seems is how an older design compares to a newer ditto in very basic terms (and not whether age has had a deteriorating affect on SQ), and what strikes me here is that older designs aren't as much brought into present day standings combining current technological advances or evolutions from their original state, but rather that they've been "left behind" in a sense and replaced with a much smaller package, much less efficient and direct radiating at that; more domestically acceptable, that is, which was the main incentive behind their invention and success in the first place. What the latest quite a few decades by now have set out to do design-wise is trying to cultivate/refurbish what's basically a 1950's Edgar Villchur design, and in that context I'm sure there have been advances - in some areas, at least. But the macro physical properties of sound and their overwhelming importance and necessity to emulate a live imprinting, properties that were realized about a century ago, have been severely left by the wayside in this process, and there's no ameliorating their negation no matter what's claimed to the contrary - it's really just a big pile of "have your (small) cake and eat it too" marketing crap. Admittedly the designs of yore, like the Shearer horns mentioned, weren't domestically intended - very few speakers of the time were anyway - but it's not the point. The point is such speakers were and still are great designs, and if audiophiles bothered to find out (and could transcend audiophile dogma) they'd realize these older designs are one heck of a capable speaker package in a domestic setting. What's a domestically capable speaker supposed to be in any case, other than being capable in a domestic setting? Too much of a forced narrative has been shoved down our throats about how domestic speakers need to be small and "fit the room size," but you have to wonder if this isn't mostly about catering to the demand of the costumer who'd much prefer a smaller package than a larger ditto, and be at peace with their interior decoration aspirations and/or spousal demands. I vividly remember walking into an audio store back in the second half of the 80's, witnessing a pair of Snell AII's carefully set up with both equipment (that I can't recall, other than - I believe - a Pink Triangle turntable) and the listening locale. It was a presentation that I didn't find equaled for decades, such a large stage and acoustically and tonally authentic sound that immersed me. That's the word: immersive, and more about the acoustic event and the energy of it than something "audiophile" sounding. Of the direct radiating speakers I've heard the Snell AII's are, to this day, among the most real to my memory. |
Thank you, @mahgister. |
No kidding though… One place played what I wanted over Spotify… and I ended up ordering a set of speakers. They also played a lot of other stuff.
At the last place I was at, I noticed that the ARC preamp was set to a higher level on the more expensive speakers… I thought to myself. “I see what you did there… (with the preamp going from -34 to -31)” |
Check out the Yamaha NS-5000. 8 years in development. The only speaker with Zylon drivers (that beats beryllium, which Yamaha pioneered in the 1970's), the only full range speaker with woofer, mid-range and tweeter made from this same material) and all made by Yamaha, a whole new tech for internal damping, A real 12" woofer that does not break up, a true dome midrange (not cone), traditional looking with a real piano finish, and only $15,000 including stands. |
I think the principals of design have been well known for a long time. I think if you are asking the speakers to do some very difficult task maybe new speakers might be able to do it better but for normal listening volumes and materials any good speaker, new or old, is probably fine. The hobby tends to get hung up on scenarios that are largely imaginary or theoretical e.g. nobody over 50 years old can hear 20k tones. If this is about money then comes the question of what you can get in the new vs. used market. You can buy some pretty nice used stuff depending on what you want. Nobody wants your used floor standers. They come cheap. The other thing is that there are a lot of great cheap speakers now like some of the Andrew Jones stuff or the KEF Q150. I think that you can put together a really accurate and nice sounding system cheap now and that marginal gains are ever more expensive. Personally, I feel like room setup and placement is a big deal but nobody likes to talk about it. Cheap DSP, like MiniDSP has come a long way too. So, in my mind, what's new is there are great cheap speakers that will really do a nice job for short money and you can get some really nice used speakers if you want a form factor that's out of favor. DSP is now so accessible and underutilized. In the end though it's about being satisfied. I stopped reading forums mostly and dropped out of my audio club because I felt that both things made me unstatisfied with my systems and made me unhappy. Also, I'll just throw this out there, my wife and I were outside in kind of a pavilion we have with some Dayton outdoor speakers and a chip amp. We were listening and both of us turned to each other and were like "does this sound insanely amazing?" I was checking behind me to see if I had installed extra speakers there or something. It was absolutely amazing. Maybe it was just a nice day and we were outside, but I would put that listening session up against small house money systems I've heard. |
"Nobody wants your used floor standers. They come cheap." Taxonomy, A lot of what you said makes sense and I agree, but that statement doesn't make sense because the category of floorstanding speakers is bigger and more popular than stand mounted speakers, and many of those speakers are among the most costly and desirable. |
Also, I’ll just throw this out there, my wife and I were outside in kind of a pavilion we have with some Dayton outdoor speakers and a chip amp. We were listening and both of us turned to each other and were like "does this sound insanely amazing?" I was checking behind me to see if I had installed extra speakers there or something. It was absolutely amazing. Maybe it was just a nice day and we were outside, but I would put that listening session up against small house money systems I’ve heard.
I’ve had this happen too, once or twice and in my case I’ve tended to put it down to some psychological effect. I don’t know. In any case it was actually a bit annoying on one occasion when my brother played back this cheap ferric tape on my NAD tape deck and it sounded way better (image size, transients, dynamics) than my own chrome tape recordings done at home via my LP12 turntable. Slightly taken aback, I asked my brother to find out more about how this tape had been recorded. It turned out to be a common or garden all in one music centre! I’m pretty sure now that it wasn’t a psychological trick but back then my audiophile sensibilities couldn’t accept it as anything other than a as yet unknown anomaly. Reminds me of the old Groucho joke, ’Who you going to believe, me or your own eyes?’ |
Test your speakers....( not for timbre because it is techno music but test it for imaging and listener envelopment/source width ratio and soundstage) This techno piece must be heard ALL AROUND you in front/left /right/back simultaneously ... Like a quadraphonic piece almost....😁😊 Headphone like sound but better than headphones but OUT of the head in my two postions: near listening and regular one...the soundscape must bear no relation to the speakers themselves...They dont exist and the soundscape fill the room.... My system is good but of low cost...Vintage well chosen piece thats all ...Dac of low cost but of good design.... The difference comes from basic knowledge of acoustic implemented in my room .... Audiophile experience is NOT linearly RELATED to money spending sorry for those who never learned it......
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Let’s stick with Monitor Audio like the OP has.
I can see nothing on the monitor audio web site that would suggest that they have fixed the issues, other than they did mentioned somthing about vibration work at a lab, so maybe the resonances were addressed??
Yeah other speakers at the higher end, have (and have had) low resonances and low compression… so it is not like current state of the art is in this (discontinued model). We would need to see a test of a current model to know for sure. (And whether that is distressing to the sound, is dependant upon the listener.) The conclusion in ^that link^ Is as follows: Conclusions |
The slim floorstander is a cludge the baffle is too small so they require BSC in networks.Woofers to small so they require multiple, most need porting and high excursion transducers, and high power to function well. They exist because they are cheap to build, and easy to ship, stock, and sell. Wide baffles are costly to build stock ship sell and thus are less popular among manufacturers. Keep in mind that much of what you think is SOTA is just profitable. Most audiophiles are buying mass-produced items, not SOTA designs. Just stuff others can make a profitable product out of for you to consume.
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This takes some effort, but it worked wonders for me. I'd love to hear if others can achieve a similar result. |
