Should I recap my speakers? If so who can do it?

If you feel comfortable with a soldering iron, it is easy to do it yourself. 

what do you mean remove the parts and ship that?

@erik_squires 

"  what do you mean remove the parts and ship that? "

thinking the OP is wanting to take out the crossovers and then send them to whoever to have them upgraded vs shipping the speakers as they are to heavy.

RILEY804 That is correct.

How do I go about getting compatible caps?

I actually meant doing the whole thing yourself. You can get replacement caps on Madison for one. I can't remember the name of the place where I  used to buy them, but I think Madison has a lot of brands.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

contact them via email and they will gladly help you......quick on the replies also.

I would be willing to do the work in terms of building a new crossover board with the right parts based on your sonic goals.   I can walk you through removing the old and installing the new board. Contact me if interested. I do this as a business now that I am retired.  Very reasonable fees. Done many. 

Okay, can you give me a ballpark idea of the cost , labor and materials?

I just looked at this speaker. The board is loaded with cheap electrolytic caps and the film caps used were also not of high quality. With all those electrolytic caps a new board with 100%  film caps would be quite large and may not fit back into the space in the bottom of the speaker. The job can be pretty involved depending on your goals.  

What are are your goals sound quality wise? I assume the speakers are working properly right now? Any blown tweeters? 

To do a nice job without going overboard I suggest the following.

1) Replace the 6-20watt sandcast/concrete resistors on each board with Mills MRA 12. You will need 12 Mills per speaker as I would connect in parallel pair in order to hit the 20 watt rating. I would match the exact same values as the original board. Parts cost $100.

2) keep the current inductors - no cost

3) Replace all the cheap film and electrolytic caps with a nice film cap such as the Clarity CSA Line - 250 volt. Estimated cost for parts on both boards is $260 total. Capacitor parts cost only.

Total is some $400 shipped for parts only.

You can contact me if interested. If not, these notes should prove helpful for your next steps should you decide to do it yourself. Looks easy to remove the board. Carefully mark all wires going into the board for resoldering later. Take your time and be very detailed in notes and markings. Will all the Clarity CSA Caps fit? Depends on the total space inside the bottom of your speaker. Need to know how much height you have. If as much as 3-4 inches, I would say yes.

AudioCap Theta. That’s all you really need to know. 

I can do these for you.  I'm realistically going to take your budget and spend it as wisely as possible making most audible changes first.  This was my business many years ago, today it is my hobby. PM me if interested. I'm also happy to provide info if you'd like to do it yourself.  

Tim 

Well one does need to know more.  First off the Theta does not come in the values needed for many locations in this speaker.  One would be forced to buy many and begin paralleling to the point that the board would not fit. For example you would need 5 Theta caps in parallel just to hit the value needed for one cap! Cost would also become very high.   Also as good as the Theta caps are, I use them in electronics, in crossovers the CSAs are better overall.  

@grannyring If one knows what they’re doing, Theta is all they need to know. Clarity CSA is an inferior metallized capacitor built by the lowest bidder. Their CopperConnect technology is marketing nonsense. Copper end spray has been around since the birth of metallized film capacitors and is an option available from most manufacturers. DynamiCap does the same thing better, ASC, etc.

Theta is film/foil. Available in large values. And sounds incredible.

Ok then. I used them and know them also.  The poster has options with several of us willing to help as little or much as he wants. I like the newer Jantzen Alumen Z also. Let’s assume we who want to help each have knowledge and experience.

I feel Grannyring and Timlub are fine options. I know for certain they are fine people, bending quite a bit to help others. Thanks you two. Also Grannyring thanks for being a reasoned voice on a couple of the threads. I appreciate it.

Thanks also to @marqmike !

I have learned a great deal reading Timlub posts and greatly respect him.  

The parts costs quoted seem reasonable. I did some speakers for my neighbour, cost about $1000, and dramatically improved every aspect of the speakers' performance.

I'm retired too, and it's my hobby too, but I'm not in the business. The posters above should be able to help you a lot.

But don't go cheap on the treble crossover capacitors. I would spend the bucks to get film and foil, preferably styrene and tin (MIT sells a good one) on the treble signal path. In this case, you get a LOT for what you pay, maybe the best bang for buck in the whole audio chain.

I would contact Peter at PBN Audio. He is very honest, he has built many a speaker, amp, pre amp, turntable.  Will not blow any smoke up your speaker so to speak. He is a old world craftsman when it comes to the repair or making new. With lots of electronic knowledge.
Good luck

Just read this thread and I gotta say it's really cool that grannyring and timlub chimed in to help the OP out. It's a testament to the the "brotherhood" of those that are so well versed and experienced to help out a fellow audio appreciator in need. 

Wow! Thanks for all the responses! I appreciate all the information, now I just have to think it over. 

As for where to buy the parts, there are several really good sources. I tend to use Michael Percy Audio and Partsconnexion.

When I got serious, that is when I retired, I built a break-out box to test capacitors for speaker applications. My experiments (two alternative forced choice, single blind paradigm) showed that the most important variable is technology: film and foil is best alternative, then metallized, then other. Second most important is materials: among the metal foils silver is best, but prohibitive; copper almost as good; tin is cost-effective; aluminum can be problematic because of the connection between the wire lead and the metal foil. Among the insulating films, styrene is most neutral, teflon somewhat bright, polypropylene somewhat muted. Third most important is brand.

The best manufacturers are very open about the technology and the materials they use - they brag about it, and for good reason. You can profit from their openness.

I did my speakers with caps from Erse. VHQ metalized film. http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/PulseX
Very reasonable and I could not be happier. Excellent sound.
No need to change resistors. I would however, remove the FASTON connectors and solder directly to the board. Ditto if FASTONs are used on the drivers.

I beg to differ on the sand cast resistors which sound harsh compared to the inexpensive Mills MRA. Resistors do make a nice difference and improvement and for little money. Path Audio is best, but they are costly. Nice bang for the buck sound quality improvement with the Mills resistors. 

When it comes to crossovers, resistors should be wirewound, or paralleled film/foil types to get proper power rating. Stay away from metal oxide resistors at all cost!

My personal favorite are still the Mills MRA-12, but I also like Ohmite AG12.  

Rather than arguing about quality of parts. I think it is very important to see what kind of budget that James wants to use. I tend to be more frugal than others here and I’d hate to discourage him from an update. Even with some less expensive parts, he will hear a big improvement from the stock crossovers and really what it comes down to is what the person doing the mods wants to use. 

$4 for the MRA12 😊

Agree 100% will your post.  Many options from inexpensive to uber expensive.  It all depends on how critical the position is, the quality of the rest of the speaker and the owner’s budget and expectations. 

I beg to differ on the sand cast resistors

It depends on the implementation. MRA resistors are wire wound and designed to minimize reactance at RF frequencies.

If the original design was tweaked to include the resistor reactance, changing them could make a difference. Whether that difference is perceived as better is totally subjective.

Capacitor upgrades from 'lytic and mylar to polypro trump resistor changes six ways to Sunday.

What works well in one design may not in another. There is no free lunch.

Agree with you.   No problem with anything you said.  

How do you know if your caps are bad? I assume visible leakage would be a clue. What if they look OK? I have a set of Snell Type A V5's. Kevin Voecks went crazy with large outboard passive crossovers. They were built in 1996. It seems to me that streamlining them could be for the better. Opinions please. Thank you. Joe

Age is a factor for electrolytic caps. Industry standard life is 15 years. Even if capacitance is still within spec, ESR is probably quite a bit higher than when new.

Polypropylene caps usually sound much better than electrolytic or mylar.

Replacing 20 year old mylars with modern polyprolylene can be a revelation.

Film and foil are preferred, but more costly. High quality Metalized film work very well and represent the best bang for the buck.

Be aware that capacitor 'reviews' seldom take into account contributing factors and are valid for that equipment only colored by the reviews predilections and prejudice. As always, Your Mileage Will Vary.

Quite right, ieales.

To comply with your concern, I initially experimented with an ESL based vinyl system, and classical music. This has since been upgraded to air bearing TT, etc. Current impressions are consistent with the formal experiment detailed above (I DIY all my electronics, and experiment continually).

+1 for Mills. Few more reasons they are worth it:

• Small for power rating, makes them easier to fit and leave air clearance
• Dead accurate resistance
• Extremely thermally stable 

Fascinating thread.  I have considered upgrading the crossovers on my Coincident Super Victory II speakers.   This discussion prompted me to take a look at the crossovers to see what might be done.  I expected to find the crossovers behind the plate to which the binding posts are attached, but when I pulled those plates away from the speaker cabinet, there was no crossover evident.  It would seem that the crossover must be behind one of the drivers.  I know that the SV IIs do not use a board, but rather point to point wiring.   Anyone know anything about these speakers?

@brownsfan 

I worked on a set of Total Victory II speaker’s and can help you.  Just contact me through the Agon system.  Great speaker that will respond well to a couple of crossover part upgrades.  

@grannyring , will do.  Thanks!

Here's your problem. I tried to upgrade some Vandersteen 2CE Signatures once. They actually have 3 capacitors in series, so I bypassed them with V-Caps. The treble sounded horrid, they used the 3 caps to tame the tweeters. So, if you send the crossovers out and the speakers sound bad, you are not going to know why, or where to begin to address your problem. It's far better to deal with someone local who is doing this as a hobby. If you could ship the speakers it would be different. I did do a set of crossovers for a friend long distance, and we got lucky, they weren't trying to hide anything. I'd highly recommend that you learn to solder, and learn electrolytic capacitors, that is polarity, vs non-polar, etc., well enough to do the work yourself, or deal with someone local. Things you can ship, like amps, preamps, and such are fine to ship as the modifier can tell if a component is a problem or not. I am not trying to hurt anyone's feelings or business here, but experience has taught me that if you either don't have the entire product available or haven't previously modified one, it's best not to do so long distance. It could work out perfectly, but if there is an issue, how many times are you prepared to ship it back and forth to address it?

I've been kinda arguing with Invictus005 on a couple of threads.  His points are actually correct that a polyprop is better than a mylar and a film & foil is better than a polyprop and a styrene is better than a film & foil and a Teflon is better than a styrene, but that doesn't make a Teflon the best for everything or any part the best or worse for every application. 
 lous just made my point perfectly. The original VCaps are Teflons… on a very detailed or maybe a slightly edgy tweeter, they will accentuate all the issues of the tweeter.  That tweeter needs a cap that is more forgiving.  You can't just put all of this in a can and say that this is how things are.  It requires a basic knowledge of every speaker that you are working on before choosing upgrade parts. 

I don’t quite understand why someone would use a speaker, or whatever, that is less than the best, sometimes it’s to meet a price point, other times I’m sure it is for other reasons.

For me there are pretty much 2 paths. The Vandersteen path is an attempt to make everything sound good, regardless of how poorly recorded it is, etc. This is done by going dark, muting the highs to be sure, and with some really poorly, IMO, gear, everything. Vandersteens mids, if memory serves, are pretty awesome, and the bass too is good, but the highs sound like a great set of speakers with a towel over the tweeter. IME, that type of gear should be left alone. If the bass is weak, it’ll take more than caps to fix it. I am generalizing here, but it tends to be more often than not the case.

The other side of the coin is the hi def/ hi rez side. Attempting to get every drop of detail possible out of the music. This is where I live, and it is certainly more challenging. You can get very transparent gear, even some bright gear, mate it with Vandersteens and it’ll still sound pretty good to folks seeking the Vandersteen path. With my system, one bright piece of equipment will drive you crazy, you just can’t listen to it. OTOH, pleasing colorations like tubes are also more apparent, and generally more enjoyable. Cables are more critical, teflon caps are a plus because you can only afford to use well designed well balanced equipment.

As for the crossovers in question, my experience with Mirage speakers, limited though it be, is that they are reasonably, to very transparent speakers. Therefore, it isn’t unlikely that a remote crossover rebuild will turn out well, but that is an opinion formed out of generalities, so it could very well be as wrong as wrong can be. The safest bet is to work on it with the speakers available so that you can immediately make corrections if need be.

Info on charistaristics / sonics of caps
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

Since some capacitors require "hundreds of hours" of burn in, which in itself may be questioned, there will innumerable other changes in line voltage, RF, ambient temperature and pressure, user acuity, etc. so as to make the ratings quite possibly specious.

@jamesfokes 
I am currently advising another Agoner in NC about a complete new build and have another Agoner from Michigan sending me drivers and crossovers.... Grannyring is more than qualified for this.  Please make arrangements for him to do this upgrade for you.  If for some reason he is also swamped, you can pm me afterward.  Tim 

For those who are into recapping their speakers, I thought these videos would inspire and make one appreciate what these guys do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz6jWcbmsqA&frags=pl%2Cwn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdaDji4XDBg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2eWcJAzUcY&frags=pl%2Cwn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU5uVuSw01g&frags=pl%2Cwn

All the best,
Nonoise

Nonoise

Found the videos interesting


Thnx
Brad

Recapping is very important , but to redriving   is more

@bache     why are you recommending that jamesfokes replace the drivers in his Mirage.  You know that would require an new crossover design.  Or does james have a defective driver and I missed it?  

@timlub   Yes , the replaced drivers for better quality and made new
crossover can significantly improve the sound