Replacing driver screws with brass screws

"...the difference in sound of different metals..."

No love for wood?

Sorry guys, I deleted my last post. I didn’t want to publish that in my world it is not conceivable that anyone could or even would want (to be ? enough) to hear the difference in sound of different metals holding down a speaker. You called me out on it, so there it is.

Will we ever find out who, in fact, hired who and what really happened in that saga between Robert and Michael Green? We have been kept in suspense for two years.

Jetter where did that last post go?

Jitter look up the transverse shear velocity of the metals you mentioned..add to that list aluminum and all their many cousins. Shear velocity and their polarities are a big key to how things sound and why they sound so different. Tom

I have been one of Tom’s customer’s for well over 10 years, and yes jetter, he is one of the "better minds" that I was referring to. Starsound Technologies...look them up.

Tom, huh? What are you talking about?

Well Jitter where are you hiding Geoff Kait? Ask John yourself I dont have access to our customer data base at home. Tom

well Tom, I hope that roxy54 will become one of your customer base if he/she is not already..

"I’m so embarrased."

Do not be. We all need love and attention from time to time.

I am disappointed that nobody took my questions about wooden screws, brass screws on different enclosure materials, etc. seriously. Well, maybe in some thread next year...

Roxy,

It has worked for me and all of our customer base for over 20 years. 
Tom..Star Sound Technologies 
           Tone Acoustics

Oh gee jetter!...you found me out! Whoever thought that my seemingly innocent thread about brass screws would finally uncover my desperate need for your attention!
I’m so embarrased.
By the way, you oughta try it. It works. And better minds than yours (I’m not one of them) think so too.

"Everyone's a comedian. If only one of you was actually funny..."

Funny thing is that we are actually serious.

Roxy, I think deep down inside you know that any difference you hear from using a different metallurgy screw is just really your need for attention from us that you aren’t getting from your "real" life.

Get a grip pilgrim.

Maybe the difference you hear has to do more with the amount of torque applied.  Are you using one of those small torgue drivers to see what pounds per inch you're applying?

I ask because from what I've read, and been told, Bobby from Merlin speakers had his screws tightened to a specific torque value as he heard a difference in the sound when using different values.

As has been mentioned, this idea has been around for decades. The purpose has been stated for magnetic/vibration reasons which is totally ludicrous. It doesn’t cost much to do, but don’t assign any idiotic benefit to it. There are a myriad of tweaks, just as inexpensive to implement, that may be more beneficial.

Screwdrivers near speaker cones make me pretty nervous.

Great suggestion tobor!
Definitely a great tweek😉😎

In my humble opinion cd318's post are on one the money. 
My contribution to this storm in a teacup is this: 'De Minimis'. That is shortcut legalese for 'The law does not take account of small things'.  I have done the brass screw thing.  Did it change the sound?  I guess in theory it did - as in everything makes a difference, not that I heard a difference.  Did it improve the sound? Again, I do not know - it was inaudible to me.  (The speakers were Triangle Magellan Cello with Pass amplification).

As an aside, something that is audible is to take out your speaker drivers and place dynamat on the baskets.  Not 'night and day', no 'veils lifted' but if you have good gear and good ears there is a bit of something there. 

Easy there Roxy, I'm going to give it a go.

Everyone's a comedian. If only one of you was actually funny...

A major change in sound may happen if you slip and put the screwdriver through a speaker cone...

Just make certain you use electrically directional screws.

One thing's for sure: stripping the heads does *not* improve the sound.

Wonder how many people are now out there over tightening their screws?  

I actually want to try this because my speakers probably need some attention with tightening the screws down after the years of use. 
I actually think the brass screws would look very nice. 

So given that where can I buy allen head wood screws?

"...with platinum-plated 24k gold.  That'll really float your boat."

I thought it would sink.

https://www.audiophilia.com/reviews/2016/5/28/lenehan-audio-ml1-loudspeaker?rq=lenehan

These look like brass screws holding the speakers. 

Hi Ricki,
Can I assume that you're speaking about Lenehan? You mentioned them the other day and a light went on. I remember well when his first tiny, perfectionist monitor came out. It was beautiful and I actually considered buying a pair. I went back to the site for the first time in forever the other day to see that he now has two larger models. They must be really something to hear! They're beautiful too.
There is a man who really attends to all of the details! 

There is a loudspeaker manufacturer who did trial brass screws, and used them for some time, until he could find someone who could manufacture him some copper ones.
Now, I do not know the purity of the copper screws, nor the exact composition of the brass. The brass screws did make a difference to the sound, and that difference was sufficient that the less expensive steel screws were dropped and the more expensive brass were introduced into the builds.

[I have myself had copper machined and cut for projects, waterjet and cnc routed. I acknowledge that small amounts of another metal turning the copper into an alloy, makes it more readily machinable]

The correct torque settings were discovered, and I haven't confirmed how that was arrived at, however I do believe it was many hours of R&D.

At the factory, a torque setter is used, and the screws have an Allen head on them. They are also secured in place with Loctite on the threads.

The old brass screws are still being used, however they are used in the tuning bay on the back of the speakers, simply as a conductor. The screws pass through the board the crossover is built upon, into an open bay in the back of the speaker. The tuning bay is used after some run in time on the speakers, whereby placing a resistor (and sometimes a capacaitor) in parallel with resistors in the crossover circuit to lower resistance, and do a final tune using Clio measurement system to dial in the final crossover measurements to very close tolerances. Having a closely matched pair makes for a very good soundstage.

Also a newer shaped baffle made of copper (an alloy of copper) did yield an audible increase in fidelity, on speakers with decoupled exotic tweeters.
This was used in conjunction with a 2" thick acoustic foam covered baffle.

You haven't really lived as an audiophile until you've replaced all your loose screws with platinum-plated 24k gold.  That'll really float your boat.

Hello,
How about this test. As long as it does not void your warranty replace the screws on one speaker. We all know when something is different with our system. If it sounds the same then it did not help your system. If it sounds off then there is a possibility it could sound better. Replace the screws on the second speakers and give it a listen for a few days. Make sure the screws are the exact same thread, length, diameter, and head size. 
It is really amazing how heated this discussion got. I wonder if this happened when the first person changed out their power cable to something different? Maybe even more basic when Mr Lee of Monster decided to upgrade speaker wires. Is anyone using lamp cord anymore?

What happens if one replaces all the usual screws, including brass, with wooden (made of wood) screws? Which wood would work the best? Would it depend on what actual material speakers (boxes) are made of, or there would be some universal wooden screw that would work the best all the time?

Is the effect of brass screws same on all types of enclosures? MDF, aluminum, granite, etc.?

Are there screws on electrostats? If yes, do brass screws make a difference and why?

In the past I worked for a Dunlavy dealer and spoke with John Dunlavy several times.  I told him I replaced all the steel fasteners with brass and he laughed..he laughed again when I told him I replaced the sand cast resistors with a resistor bridge made up of many Vishays..he told me resistors make no difference I laughed with disappointment that such a great designer had not considered such simple items to try or replace. If you cant measure IT then IT can't be heard. WRONG..Tom
.

Wouldn't the elasticity of MDF or plywood make more difference than the material of the screw? Stainless Steel  screws would probably be the strongest. 

So I wanted to stop just putting my 2 cents in and ask someone that knows more than me to weigh in. I just sent Revel the following. 
Big discussion on the Audiogon blog concerning the best screws to attach a speaker driver to the cabinet. I purchased a pair of Salon 2's from an authorized dealer 2 years ago. I love them and wouldn't change a thing. Some are claiming brass screws are best because "the elasticity of the screw material can actually help the speaker basket to stop ringing against the baffle, helping to remove noise."  Do you have any information concerning the validity on this? Thank you, David
Perhaps this is new information to them and we will see brass screws on Revel speakers soon.

@ tobor

So speaker companies like B&W and Revel wanted to save money on screws or just just never heard of this little tweak that would make their 20K speakers sound better. I’m sure at the next R&D meeting someone will have to answer for this. Are you kidding?

Not kidding. Yes the elasticity of the screw material can actually help the speaker basket to stop ringing against the baffle, helping to remove noise.

Torquing the screws at the same setting, and correct (spring rate) for the driver is important.

Good point Roxy
When one channel of my BAT power amp crapped out, Victor diagnosed it as one of the power modules and had me just remove that and send to him for repair.
35lb much better than 130lb shipped!

Interesting you mention chipping motors. Porsche, Ferrari and others have encoded engine management systems that are able to download data history so swapping your aftermarket chip back out does no good. Magico, Wilson and others picked up on this and so are all doing the same with their six-figure speakers. Only instead of merely monitoring power and hours they also monitor things like shock (was it dropped? How hard?) and temperature. Don't even think of touching one of these Faberge eggs they will know which screw and when and how much torque and everything.

Good points folks. Carry on!

Agreed. And how often do we send speakers in for warranty repair rather than a part of a speaker? 

I suppose that would depend on how the warranty reads...

I brought this up earlier. If I purchased a brand new pair of speakers,and I start replacing screws and other parts,doesn’t this void the manufacturers warranty?

Well only if you were foolish enough to tell the manufacturer what you had done and leave the altered parts in if you had to send back....

Same issue I used to face with chipping motors, remove aftermarket chip before it goes to dealer for service or any work!

I brought this up earlier. If I purchased a brand new pair of speakers,and I start replacing screws and other parts,doesn’t this void the manufacturers warranty? 

roxy54,
Good point. Better than mine in fact.
Allow me to start again...

Is this STILL being discussed?
Who cares??!!
If you want to try it, try it.
If you don't believe it, don't try it.
If you have tried it, opine with the voice of experience.
There.
You are all welcome.

Actually, in my opinion, if I was a new audiophile looking for an interesting website to read about the experiences of other audiophiles and I came across this thread, I would seriously consider not visiting this site again.

thecarpathian,
I agree with you...partially.If you have tried it and have an opinion yay or nay, let's hear it. If you haven't, and you still have an uninformed "opinion", you are a bore.  

Is this STILL being discussed?
Who cares??!!
If you want to try it, try it. 
If you don't believe it, don't try it.
There.
You are all welcome.

djones51,
The idea is far from new. Its been done for quite a few years. Maybe you should consider it. I paid 10 bucks for 100 screws. Not much of a financial risk. And I wouldn't worry about the "men in straight jackets"...they wouldn't be able to grab you.