Replacing driver screws with brass screws


There was some discussion about this on Millercarbon's thread about the Moab speakers, and I wanted to pursue the subject further without interfering with his thread.
As I stated there, I have heard about this practice for quite a few years, but never tried it because it seemed like one of those lunatic fringe ideas; and even though I actually really enjoy trying tweaks, and have found many of them effective, I just was not prepared for what this one did for the music coming out of my speakers. 
Specifically, it improved the detail in ambient trails, focus in general, complex harmonics in voices and stringed instruments, and instrumental separation. It is not subtle, and it is immediately noticeable.
So, I am curious to know how many of you out there have tried this, and what your experience has been.
Thanks, John  
128x128roxy54

Showing 7 responses by millercarbon

So what you're saying, to even talk about brass screws takes brass balls. The man's a poet, didn't know it. As Will Shakespeare once said, This s**t writes itself!"
Interesting you mention chipping motors. Porsche, Ferrari and others have encoded engine management systems that are able to download data history so swapping your aftermarket chip back out does no good. Magico, Wilson and others picked up on this and so are all doing the same with their six-figure speakers. Only instead of merely monitoring power and hours they also monitor things like shock (was it dropped? How hard?) and temperature. Don't even think of touching one of these Faberge eggs they will know which screw and when and how much torque and everything.
If you read millercarbon’s Tekton thread,

You will be amazed.
he replied that he was “amazed” at the improvement this little tweak made:
No. Wrong.
“Yes roxy54, and now you see how amazing one seemingly minor little tweak can be”

See? Didn’t say I was amazed. The subject of the sentence is roxy54.
when most people hear nothing or very little if anything.
And "most people" is millercarbon? I don’t think so.
Also, this is from a person that thinks his moabs are better than the (in MC’s words), top of the line million dollar Wilson speakers,
Never said top of the line. Said better than ALL Wilson.
(but Wilson doesn’t make a million dollar speaker,

Never said they did.
he just used it for exaggerating purposes),

Its called poetic license.
so his hearing is questionable at best.

Compared to your reading comprehension its off the charts. Is there anything you can read and understand? See Spot run??
oldhevymec, seems you're saying vibrate when what you mean is rattle. Tight won't rattle but everything vibrates, only question is how. You're probably right about torque to tone. Tighter probably is higher in the same way a guitar string is adjusted higher by tightening. The difference being the relatively stronger screw is going into MDF and probably cannot be tightened anywhere near enough for this to be noticeable. What probably would be noticeable is tightening compressing the gaskets. Just not to the degree of tone you're talking about. Lots of people tighten mounting screws, I sure have, never heard anything like this though.
Got mine off eBay. Prices and shipping varies so compare around. Its a lot more expensive now than last year! Thin and thick are the same except for thickness. One sheet is pre-cut into strips of different widths, the other is uncut. Excellent adhesive, I recommend using tweezers and leaving part of the backing in place to help line it up right where you want it. Thin is great on tone arms, caps and stuff, both thick and thin work great on speakers, circuit boards, etc.
Very surprised to see Peter from PBN saying it could make no difference.

If that is indeed what he said then it is no surprise to me. None at all. What he said was it "could" make no difference. Read carefully what that means is he ASSUMES and has NEVER TRIED.  

That tape is very expensive per square foot but well worth it for what it does. First piece I tried went on the base of my Conqueror tone arm. It was only about 1/4" by 1" long. That was enough to hear improvement. Not a lot of improvement but 1", come on! 

The thread here where I first heard about it they guy has bought many sheets and uses it all over the place. Tone arm, RCA and power cord plugs, outlet covers, circuit boards, caps. Does not dampen in the normal sense of things we are used to that suck the life and dynamics. This works more at a very micro level where it reveals detail by removing smearing. 

Brass I think works more because it has a bit more stiffness and a better vibrational profile than mild steel. By that I mean it vibrates in a way we like. Which is after all why we make so many instruments out of it. 
And now John you see how it is and how people earn their place on the list. Its a perfectly valid discussion to have. If originality was required the worst offenders would be the first to go. Couldn’t think an original thought if their life depended on it.

The sounds we are most concerned with, the cues that tell us which instrument, and where, and how big a space, these are supremely fine details. No one even comes close to measuring, yet we hear them easily.

When you dig into the details of speaker construction, or even just hold different drivers in your hands and look at them, its apparent the better ones put a good deal of time and money into controlling really small vibrations.

Its not just the obvious stuff like thick or braced baffles, or even less obvious stuff like laminates and composites. Even little details like the speaker spider and surround are designed to be both stiff and highly damped.
Which makes it all the more strange that having done all this more often than not they mount these engineered marvels to their sweated over design cabinets with ordinary screws and gaskets.

The way I see it the improvement you’re hearing isn’t all that surprising to me. The way I see it everything else is engineered better than the interface where the driver fastens to the cabinet. This is why mine were improved so much with fO.q TA-102 tape, and why you heard so much improvement with brass screws.

Best of all you described the main things I was looking to hear, "improved the detail in ambient trails, focus in general, complex harmonics in voices and stringed instruments, and instrumental separation. It is not subtle, and it is immediately noticeable." Reason I say best of all is because when I tried something like this many years ago I heard a similar improvement but was put off by it giving too much emphasis to brass instruments. Sax, cymbals, horns sounded a little too brassy.

But that was a very long time ago, and a very different situation. Now I just need to find the right type brass screws for my Moabs. Thanks!