I recently purchased some Audio Intelligence solution #15 enzymatic pre clean to use on my VPI 16.5 prior to my usual cleaning with Disc Doctor cleaning solution followed by 3 distilled water rinses. I picked a record that came from a collection in a particularly moldy house.The record had faint white splotchy marks all over that I assumed were mold. Pretreated with AI #15 for 5 min per AI’s instructions. After cleaning and drying, the record was cleaner, but the splotches remained. Did I do something wrong? Could the splotches be something else?
A second record had inner runout marks I assumed were from the old plastic inner sleeve, but going thru the same process these as well did not clean up as well...Hmmm?
@ghdprentice- For what it is worth, I don't think alcohol (most commonly denatured or isopropyl to prevent drinking) is necessarily harmful, though I rarely use it. It is an ok solvent and a modest surfactant (reduces water tension). One concern was its effect on plasticizers, but that is not what comprises most of the compounds used--you know, the stuff that makes those heavy library type album covers soft and pliable.
There was one fellow here whose screen name escapes me-advocating the use of high octane ethanol, known in the States as Everclear. I don't use that either.
I similarly did a deep dive a while ago, and got an opportunity to spend a day at the intake facility of the Library of Congress in Culpeper, Va. Although my original objective was to talk about cleaning and archival practices, the place and the people were so fascinating that I spent much of the day doing other things- listening to overdubs by Les Paul cut to lacquers (before he had a tape machine) and spending time in their vaults. I wrote it up and it is on the Net. I subsequently did an interview with one of their preservation specialists about cleaning practices. A lot of it is common sense and does not necessarily require fancy equipment, though I use a big Monks and a KL ultrasonic. The combination is synergistic in a real sense.
I was fortunate to meet Neil Antin (@antinn) who literally wrote a book on the subject-he was the author of the mil-spec for cleaning o2 systems in naval submarines, so the issue of residue was an important factor, as well as the measure of cleanliness. To paraphrase Neil (and to echo conclusions I reached independently a long time ago through experimentation, though without the scientific and engineering background Neil has), there is no single "best" way-- a lot depends on the user, the record in question and lengths to which the user is willing to go. Much of it is in the method, not the machinery.
I'm still mainly an LP guy so clean playing records are important to me, starting with the condition of the LP-- much of what I buy is older, "used" or "dead inventory" but a lot of new pressings have nasties that cleaning can ameliorate. I've been able to salvage some that I once would have considered unplayable due to groove chew; turned out it was crud and I suspect came from past attempts at "cleaning" back in the day with sprays, wipes and other methods. There is no magic in any of this and some records are irretrievably damaged.
I stay away from anything that has mold. I won't let it in the room, especially if it is active. I just don't want to mess with it, for health and contamination reasons. But, there's a ton of information out there, some of it good, some of it not so good. The mantra, of course, is "do no harm."
It has been more than twenty years since I took my deep dive into record cleaning… and it was pretty deep. I do remember that alcohol is a real no no, not because of a residue, but it hardens or damages the vinyl in some way. My research included how the Smithsonian cleaned and preserved records as well as some lengthy scientific publications. Too long ago for me to remember the details… but no alcohol.
No, I don't think the ethanol will leave any residue, but the water that is with it might. Obviously, being distilled, you are minimising this as best you can. I doubt the vacuum leaves a record truly dry, so this is why the tiny bit of moisture left behind should be as uncontaminated as possible. Once it dries, you are left with what was dissolved in it.
Some cleaning regimens are obsessed with the rinse cycle, advocating distilled water only. I use a VPI HW-17. The vacuum removes whatever liquid is on the record. Is there any reason to believe ethanol in the rinse would leave a residue? It is distilled, it is very pure and there should be no minerals in it.
@lewmIt all depends on the initial quality of your tap water. Distillation is effective at removing suspended solids (which you certainly don't want to be deposited in your grooves), and reduces dissolved salts (otherwise desalination of sea water would not work). When tap water dries, it does not leave metal ions on the record: they will be left as salts.
I've taken to using an air still to make my own distilled water, and when I look at what is left in it at the end of a run I am very glad it isn't being left on my LPs. My tap water comes from a deep drilled well and goes through a filter cartridge that gets changed every three months, but even so... It's instructive to let a puddle of tap water dry out on a sheet of glass and look at the residue afterwards. That's what will be left in the grooves.
@lewm When I lived in LA I used tap water on about a dozen records, and they remained unplayable until I cleaned them with a US machine. Now they are pristine.
Although I am a good little audiophile and would never think of using anything other than distilled water in my RCM solutions or alone to rinse, I do have to wonder how "minerals" in tap water could possibly do any harm, if you then vacuum dry and maybe even if you air dry the washed LPs. We are talking about very low concentrations of metals in ionic form, in solution in water. It's not as if those ions are going to disturb tracking or groove contours. And by the way, distilled water will still have metallic ions in it, as distillation does not remove them.
And yet, when I had access to water from my lab at NIH (before I retired), which was both distilled and deionized, I used that, but still I am doubtful of the value. As to the rest of the story, read previous lengthy and detailed threads here and read the book by Antinn.
I watched a youtube video a few years about record cleaning. The uploader had a process for cleaning very dirty LPs, including LPs embedded with mold and other organic material. He used a home made enzymatic solution to break down and neutralize the material. He saturated each LP side, deeply scrubbed, then let the solution sit on the LP for about 10 min per side. Then he scrubbed again, vacuumed, then rinsed, then vacuumed again. He claimed that is method was very successful in removing the debris. Makes sense; instead of just scrubbing and cleaning, take time to break down the material so it is easier to remove.
Distilled water yes ,how about using those mold wipe bags in the room you keep your records especially if there's any dampness or you bought vinyl records with mold in the sleeves. I've been using them...like 12 bucks for 3 bags will last you a couple or move years...I know a humidifier, but they make the air hot...
@jasonbourne71: Tap water is bad for records! It is loaded with minerals! Use only steam distilled water! I buy mine at my nearby supermarket - $1.39 a gallon. About dogs - they shed not only hair but dandruff. It’s there even if not easily visible. I’d keep the dog out of the listening room.
Yes it is, but you will have noticed I rinse twice and wash 3 times. Any residue from the tap water will dissolve in the RCM. I make my own distilled water - mostly for the espresso machine :-) but also for the RCM. When TDS gets to about 8 or so, I re-fill. One of the reasons I added the rinse step was all the junk inside the RCM when going from scrub to wash. TDS would almost double. Adding the rinse step washes all the residue from the scrub step and the RCM water stays relatively clean for way longer.
We have had dogs for >30 years and I have had some of my records longer. Any time I hear any snap, crackle, pop on an album - which is almost never - it goes in the RCM. Some of my fav albums from the 80's are still dead quiet.
Each record gets a brush with a carbon brush before and after each play. The stylus gets cleaned with Onzow Zerodust after each play. I just replaced my Sumiko. Blackbird after 10 years and checked under a magifying glass - it was surprisingly clean.
@jasonbourne71I have sprayed records with brake cleaning fluid and soaked them in denatured alcohol and the label always survives just fine as does the record. Think of the stuff people dump down their PVC drain pipes to unclog them! PVC is really tuff stuff.
@dmk_calgary: Tap water is bad for records! It is loaded with minerals! Use only steam distilled water! I buy mine at my nearby supermarket - $1.39 a gallon. About dogs - they shed not only hair but dandruff. It’s there even if not easily visible. I’d keep the dog out of the listening room.
I always thought mold was green, but in any case, I think an ultrasonic machine might help. I have a CleanerVinyl Ultrasonic RCM. About 10 years now, I think. I have about 1500 records and ALL have been through the RCM at least once. A handful have been very noisy and dirty - no mould though. After much experimentation, this seems to work for me - YMMV of course.
- 10 minutes in RCM at about 35C - vinyl melts at 100C or so, so no worry about hurting it. My reasoning is I clean my dishes in warm water, so why not vinyl?
- Disc doctor - scrub about 3-4" section of vinyl about 20 times - and I mean scrub - find a good solid surface, put a towel on it, then the wet record and scrub and press down HARD - move around the vinyl doing this - both sides if it needs it, otherwise, just the offending section. Scrubbing won't hurt it assuming you are using the DD brushes.
- rinse under tap water, be careful of the label
- RCM for 10 minutes again and scrub and rinse and RCM for 10 again
- dry
this process works for the very dirty onesI had - maybe a dozen or so. I have had one used one that I could not get clean, so it went back to the seller on Discogs. I guess I could have repeated the above process, but there was no discernible difference to my ears after the above process, so I gave it up.
I don't have a VPI, but you might want to try heating the water - just get hot water from a kettle and put it in the VPI. Might be worth it.
I was initially worried about the CleanerVinyl using a fan to dry the records, but I have had zero issues with my records. My room is a man-cave downstairs, and my dog does come down most days to chill with me, so there is dog hair, but so far, no issues.
I bought well over 1,500 used vinyl and never got a moldy one, at least not one with moldy white patches. I concurr with myjostin, that would hit the garbage bin. Mold is only good in blue cheese.
The mold is growing on the record for a reason. It is eating the vinyl. The White splotches remain because the vinyl is now finely pitted and it reflects light differently. If you put a little Clorox bleach in the cleaning solution it will kill all the mold. The bleach will totally evaporate and will not damage the vinyl. You also have to use a new clean inner sleeve and wipe the album cover inside and out with bleach. When I run into a moldy record my solution is the garbage can.
I used a VPI 16.5 for years. Now I use a lab grade Elmasonic US machine at 80 KHz. The difference? About as much as upgrading a major component. IMO. YMMV.
But it's not magic. Some records need a lot more attention, some never come around. I use a lab detergent, never considered any audiophile products.
There is a limit to cleaning. I find that when you are talking about mold or heavy grim extraordinary effort and exotic cleaners only provide a slight improvement.
Few years ago I bought some records off a collector who had them stored for 30+ years never played. Took multiple cleanings with a ultra sonic cleaner and vacuum cleaner to get all the mold out of the groves. Even after a few cleanings I was still getting small amounts of white dust coming out of the groves when played (assuming mold). After a few more cleaning rounds they play wonderfully and sound fantastic. I used on top of the ultra sonic and vacuum dry a carbon brush, used wet, it helps get deeper into the groves.
Both were UK first pressings, Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here, and Supertramp's Crime of the Century. Best two records I have in my collection for sound quality (3000+ records) also most expensive. Both sound way better then any of the remasters I have.
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