I know these types of topics come up very often but here's another.
I'm looking for a preamp for my system. I currently use an Onkyo TX-SR705 as a pre. I have Klipsch RP-600M bookshelf speakers fed by a diy First Watt Aleph J amp.
I'm looking at the Odysey Candela and the Van Alstine Vision SLR to start. I'd like to stay around this price point or lower.
I do not need phono but a remote is a must have. Obviously I'm open to ss or tubes. Thoughts on the two in considering? Other suggestions?
good call on the modwright 9 -- i almost posted the link here when i saw it offered for sale - for the money it is a steal
couple things when you get it -- i found mine to be slightly microphonic, so be careful with placement and do the pencil eraser ping test to make sure it is silent -- other related point to this is at power on, mine pinged badly, but once the relay clicked in, the microphony subsided almost entirely
second, changing out the factory sovtek 5ar4 inside to an old stock tube really helped round out the sound a good bit - this unit by its nature and dan’s voicing is quite extended at the frequency extremes for superior imaging and spatial ’magnification’, but can be a little tizzy for a tube linestage - changing out the 5687 signal tubes can help that, but the rectifier made the most difference for me
So I figured I would come back and post an update to my pre amp search. I think I have too many hobbies and usually that proves to be an encumbrance, but this time around it proved to be beneficial to me as I was able to increase my allotted budget for my pre amp. I also decided to shift gears away from SS and towards tubes after some additional recommendations for pairing tubes with my clone Aleph J.
I stumbled upon the opportunity to get an almost brand new
ModWright MWI SWL 9.0 AE Anniversary Edition pre amp for a pretty great price, and I decided to pull the trigger on it. The pre amp shipped this morning and I should take delivery of it Thursday.
Hi @donsachs Very sorry for implying that your build is the same as the sp14 kit. Was definitely not my intention! I've not heard the sp14, but definitely do believe that your version sounds better... which is why I own and love one (despite doing diy and running off of my own hand built First Watt F4 amplifiers). Thanks for your great work.
Hi Don Sachs here. I normally stay out of threads, but I just want to clear up the misconception stated above. Yes, my preamp starts with the bare sp14 board. That is it. The circuit is a very good SRPP with an Akido buffer and the first time I heard it I knew it was very special sounding. Over the past 4 or 5 years I have developed my version, and I have gotten Roy to make major modifications to the board that have improved it considerably. This has resulted in a much better preamp kit for all of the kit builders. That said, my preamp is not just an sp14 board in a pretty case. I run the tubes at a different operating point, I have modified the regulated filament supplies to lower noise, I have modified the preamp to use a much better rectifier tube, I choose every single part for a certain sound based on my experience restoring 500+ pieces of vintage tube gear, and building 200+ pieces of custom tube gear of my own. I have shortened the signal path considerably. I use some very special signal path wire and output caps I love. I have experimented extensively to hear which parts have the most sonic effect. There are a number of other things I have done that I won’t go into.
So, if you build one of Roy’s SP14 kits, you will have probably the best preamp you have ever heard for peanuts, and yes, you will have the joy of building it yourself. Please go for it if you are so inclined as they are wonderful! That said, mine is 20-25% better because of the above. I am sure many of the other preamps mentioned in this thread are wonderful as well. There are many paths to Audio Nirvana....
The Quicksilver HP amp used as a pre continues to impress. So much so that I don’t think I can return to the Freya — sucks in a way because I’ve amassed a collection of 6SN7s. I’ll be placing a call to QS next week to inquire whether I can expect similar or even better performance from their Remote Line Stage preamp.
I recently borrowed some audio equipment from a friend. The Shiit Saga + II and the Bifrost DAC. Playing off an Innuos mini mk 3. This is going to be difficult to beat for the price! The voices became buttery smooth, more clear and detailed as I could want. Increased detail I never heard before. Symbols decay and ring. You hear the tip of the drum stick it is amazing. Bass is clear and solid. I would keep them because I think he wants to sell them. I am older and want more controls on a remote and preamp than what Shiit offers. If I were younger I would not mind a basic setup. I also want tone controls for older less quality recorded music.
The Don Sachs preamp is just the VTA SP14 built on a custom chassis. The SP14, with a remote, is available in kit form for $1390 and fully assembled & tested for $1790. The kit is no more difficult to build than any Dynaco piece and comes with excellent instructions. If you can solder, you can build this preamp. You get to save $400 AND come away with enormous satisfaction.
The Don Sachs preamp is a good suggestion, but over your budget. Don used to own a space tech labs preamp and he liked a lot, space tech labs has lots of models of preamps that are built to order.
The only help I can give you is to report on my Odyssey power amp. I am 3d owner of what I think is Klaus’s biggest single amp about 20 years ago: Stratos Dual-Mono. One cabinet with 2 big toroidals and even 2 IEC 15’s for separate power cables. It’s an 85lb monster and a terrific sounding amp.(180 into 8ohms). They’re still hand assembled in Indianapolis and have a great warranty. I leave this old guy running nite and day and it never spits. When I first hooked the Odyssey up, there was a ground problem but all I had to do was tighten the gold RCA input connector. There are no mistakes in your candidates. Enjoy.
I upgraded from the Linear Tube Audio (LTA) MZ2 to the MZ3 and it was quite an improvement. Based upon recommended NOS tubes from Brent Jessee, the MZ3 provides tonality that really fits my requirements. The MZ3 drives either a tube LTA Ultralinear or upgraded solid-state SMc DNA-1.
Good luck on finding equipment that provides your tonality requirement!
@markf31 Not sure if you are aware, it’s a common practice to run a tube preamp in front of the PASS / Firstwatt amplifiers. If you’ve not seen or tried it, look up Korg NuTube on the firstwatt site http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_diy_nutube_preamp.pdf
A few reviewers and owners of FW and DIY amps also demoing these flat tube preamps past few years. When I was doing research on the early version ".8" Pass amps a few years ago, was quite surprised to learn from Nelson directly how many owners were already using my own Cary 6SN7 tube based preamp in front of Pass SS amps. He shared he has a "lot of customers using my same tube preamp with his amps". If you are truly looking for suggestions...
Your RP-600M and former RP160M predecessor speakers still tend to be a little bright and forward with the TracTrix. A few buddies with them use tube DACs and tube preamps in second systems, and softer input driver tubes. Folks are doing recent crossover updates on them now to help tame the RP-600Ms some more. A nice tube preamp in front of your Aleph SS amp can truly be an enjoyable way to go, fwiw.
Or, the AVA Vision SLR preamp you are considering has the switch:
"High Filter - to tame excess brightness from low quality sources".
Yes I am thinking the AVA non-tube "SLR" all solid state version to pair up with the Aleph. An all class A pre and power is appealing in general to me.
I had entertained the FET Valve but at an extra $800 over the SLR Im not sure I want to go there. A used FET Valve or maybe a used Rogue RP-1 then tubes might enter the consideration with a couple more options.
I previously owned the FET Valve CFR. While it's a nice preamp in many respects and unmatched in terms of price/features, I prefer the Schiit Freya Plus for absolute sound quality. The Quicksilver headphone amp performs even better than the Schiit.
That said, of the initial two on your list, definitely go AVA. You'd probably have to wait no more than two weeks to receive the preamp and Frank is a saint in treatment of his customers compared to some other(s).
Schiit isn't my favorite regarding customer service but they're certainly not terrible. For performance/dollar, the Freya+ is exceptional. Only caveat is if your system needs a balance control.
@ecooney Yes I am thinking the AVA non-tube "SLR" all solid state version to pair up with the Aleph. An all class A pre and power is appealing in general to me. I had entertained the FET Valve
but at an extra $800 over the SLR Im not sure I want to go there. A used FET Valve or maybe a used Rogue RP-1 then tubes might enter the consideration with a couple more options.
@arcticdeth $4500 for one of the recent Sanders preamps, right? OP is looking closer to 1K to spend.
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For $1000, Quicksilver Linestage tube preamplifier with no remote and really good vintage input tubes competes handily with several preamps at 2-3x the price. Or, pick up a remote version 2nd hand when they come up for sale, every once in a while.
If you built your own amps, you might consider building your pre too. Here's a link to the kit don Sachs uses to make his machine... Right around your $1k budget: http://www.tubes4hifi.com/SP14.htm
frank van alstine and klaus bunge are two stalwarts in made in usa hi fi amplification (though klaus has ties w symphonic line of germany)
hard to go wrong with either of their products, i have first hand experience
from my experience, klaus has a slightly more sophisticated sound (lil more silky mids and highs) and frank’s stuff is very transparent but not at all harsh
their production values and design are superb, not big marketers, but just wonderful products and people, no BS all substance, klaus can be a lil more edgy in his dealings with you but he means well and usually delivers
frank is just a prince, one of the best guys in audio
@markf31 Are you thinking the AVA non-tube "SLR" all solid state version to pair up with your Aleph?
In other words, what's driving you to the SLR vs AVA FET Valve or QS preamp (2nd hand) with tubes you could fine tube-tune later... kinda stuck with all SS. Is it the the hi/low filters or low gain buttons on the SLR version...
Those Klipsch speakers are very high efficiency at 96 db. I would avoid the Odyssey Candela as there have been several problems with people getting ground loop hum/buzz on this setup. With a high efficiency speaker, the amount of background buzz is even higher and will cause listening fatigue and noise in the music.
Look for something that has a very clean/quiet background.
Appreciate all the good preamp discussion, suggestions and recommendations. I added the Quicksliver to my list of potentials. I have some more brain debating to do but Im leaning towards the Van Alstine right now. Always open to any additional thoughts.
The best remote ever came with an old CD player. The front and back are high quality solid hardwood, laser-etched, with just a few large buttons that are easy to work even in the dark. The sides or frame is one piece cast metal, probably aluminum, although with its unique textured finish its hard to tell. The back is held with magnets, so not a screw or fastener to be seen. Perfect heft. Shaped to fit the hand. Just an absolutely beautiful remote.
The controls match the simplicity of the Raven amp remotes. Its so nice I keep it around just on the chance of maybe one day swapping parts or something to give me a reason to use it again.
Other than that, remotes pretty much suck.
This remote by the way, you're talking about paying $300 just to have a good remote. The whole CD player with remote was only about $500. This was nearly 20 years ago. There's just no reason we should still be looking at crap remotes 20 years later.
I agree, I have expensive McIntosh equipment and they all come with cheap plastic remotes. I would be more than willing to pay $300.00 for the same remote in an aluminum chassis that doesn’t show the oils from your hands and fingers.
Helomech: Can't comprehend why one would despise remotes. I find that seldom do two songs share the same ideal volume level. And if your gear has a remote function no one forces you to use it. A motorized control has no detrimental effect on sonics. Suppose some folks just prefer things the hard way.
Couldn't agree more. Remotes that come with well designed hi end gear are (or should be) a pleasure to hold and use. I wouldn't derive any pleasure from a cheap plastic, poorly designed remote which I suspect is the source of most of the hatred for remotes. The remotes for my preamp and CD player are all metal, well designed, expensive feeling, and a pleasure to hold and use.
And I would also say you might also give supratek a shot. All the owners love it too. I almost bought one and still might give it a shot and compare it to my lovely DS one day.
I use a Don Sachs 6sn7 preamp (a modified version of the vta sp14 kit which itself appears to be based on the Aikido kit). It has everything you want and sounds great driving my DIY first watt f4 monoblocks. I have Duelund tinned copper cast output capacitors and that was a big step up from the miflexs it comes with. I've never seen a bad review of the unit.
Can't comprehend why one would despise remotes. I find that seldom do two songs share the same ideal volume level. And if your gear has a remote function no one forces you to use it. A motorized control has no detrimental effect on sonics. Suppose some folks just prefer things the hard way.
Have not heard the Odyssey Candela. I own the Van Alstine Vision SLR with Vision Q Phono stage. It is quite nice indeed. It has the low gain function which is handy for low level listening. The remote control operates power, volume, mute, dimming and input switching. Frank Van Alstine is very responsive to any questions or issues that may arise. Depending on how deep down the rabbit hole one chooses to go in this hobby, the SLR could be an endgame preamp. Good luck to you on your quest.
I have the Quicksilver Remote Line Stage preamp and the Klipsch RP 600M. Those are very bright speakers, but they calmed down when I put NOS in my preamp. The QS is very, very ruggedly made but yes, no headphone jack.
What aspects of sound reproduction and system performance are most important to you? Not really possible to make a good recommendation without that info.
Save yourself a lot of money and consider a Parasound Zpre3, with HT pass-thru (easy mating with your Onkyo if going to use for HT), tone controls, remote, etc. No phono stage or DAC, so you pay for neither of those. A great value and very good sound IMO.
You will be pleasantly surprised how much better 2 channel sounds getting your AVR out of the chain for music.
I’d consider the Quicksilver Remote Line Stage preamp. I say this because I recently tried their headphone amp as a preamp and it has outperformed every preamp I’ve used thus far, including my Schiit Freya Plus and my previous AVA Fet Valve CFR. And this is with new-production OEM tubes vs the expensive NOS tubes I have/had in the other preamps.
I can afford fairly expensive preamps but I’m always looking out for exceptional values. If only this Quicksilver headphone amp had additional inputs and a remote it would be the proverbial giant slayer. If you’ve ever read of the ability of gear to recreate the "air surrounding the performers," well, this QS piece does that when serving as a preamp, and oddly, it’s more noticeable than when it’s driving headphones.
If their Linestage preamp is 90% as good then it’s a top-value item.
Also, with Quicksilver, you won't have to wait for months to receive your preamp, and listen to excuse after excuse for why your order is being delayed as you would if you go with one of the brands you're considering.
Search for Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5, it includes a dac, balanced outs, headphone jack, full function remote, and likely miles above the 2 choices you mentioned
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