Power cable education needed

And on and on and on.... 

What does your $10,000 power cable do?

"It makes your system sound better".

How does it do that?

"Trust me."

No co is giving great cables for free be a sport get great aftermarket cable like Purist,Tara,Shunyata etc.

So this guy measured an audiophile power cord that cost $20 on Amazon, why not test something like shunyata's lowest line power cord?

Wow, I  thought appeals to authority were not a thing anymore.

Good to know you have friends in high places, I have got ears...
Apology accepted

antigrunge2427 posts05-07-2021 11:49am@edgewound,

your offensive language is in no way acceptable given the irrelevant and dodgy test method you quote. It is this overreaching and obnoxious behaviour that makes me wonder whether a rational argument can be had in these fora. Disgraceful and silly.

I apologize if I hurt your delicate feelings.
My friends that work at JPL and managed to stick some landings, rovers, a remote control helicopter, send photos, and a few other little experiments laugh at these conversations and claims that can’t be backed up with one iota of science when it applies to audio frequencies.

Believe what you will...I’m not buying it.

@edgewound,

your offensive language is in no way acceptable given the irrelevant and dodgy test method you quote. It is this overreaching and obnoxious behaviour that makes me wonder whether a rational argument can be had in these fora. Disgraceful and silly.

Power cords with better shielding, and build integrity don't make a difference. What?  I would rather have a better power cable on my equipment because they are made better, and if there is an improvement in sound, then that's even better. By the way, I do hear changes in the sound, which will depend on the cable being used.

millercarbon9,065 posts05-06-2021 9:23pmNo one using freebie rubber power cords and patch cords (interconnects) should be upgrading any component without first upgrading all that absolute crap wire. Putting everything on Nobsound (or better) springs. Getting all their wire up off the floor. And making sure all that wire is routed away from everything else. At an absolute minimum. Not everyone can do room treatment, but these almost everyone can do and for minimal expense. Because if you are running the free crap it is so awful anything you can find even if less than $100 will be an improvement.

Unless of course you are running an AVR. The one thing nothing else is ever worse than is an AVR. Freebie rubber power cords come close. But when it comes to crap the AVR is in a league of its own.

The crap that you post here is in a league of it's own. You lost ALL respect when you said a posters ELECTRICIAN was nuts for following NEC Code. Here's a guy that has actually done real world power cable measurements. It's all complete Bullsh**. You're a shill, a fraud, and you damn well know it. You all can continue to live in your fantasy world...but it's all one gigantic lie.

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/02/measurements-do-power-cables-make.html

No one using freebie rubber power cords and patch cords (interconnects) should be upgrading any component without first upgrading all that absolute crap wire. Putting everything on Nobsound (or better) springs. Getting all their wire up off the floor. And making sure all that wire is routed away from everything else. At an absolute minimum. Not everyone can do room treatment, but these almost everyone can do and for minimal expense. Because if you are running the free crap it is so awful anything you can find even if less than $100 will be an improvement. 

Unless of course you are running an AVR. The one thing nothing else is ever worse than is an AVR. Freebie rubber power cords come close. But when it comes to crap the AVR is in a league of its own.

Well honestly,I’m amazed that there is still so many people commenting that after market power cords don’t make a difference. The only reasons I can fathom is they either haven’t ever tried a better power cord,have hearing that’s sub-par,or are just too pig headed to admit it. Yes,a 100$ power cord isn’t going to have many benefits,but if you spend 700$ to 1500$ on one,the sound quality is massively better.In my experience,this has been the case,100 percent of the time,without exception. Different models and different brands usually sound different. Now weather it’s worth it in your system is up to each individual to decide. I would definitely recommend someone tries a better cord before upgrading a component,very well may save you some money,as the effects can be very dramatic. If you can’t hear the difference,look how much money you just saved,good for you. If you can great,I’m sure you will be happy in the long run. John

Power cords are funny.  For me, they make a larger difference in the sound of my system than interconnects and speaker cables. Here is why the “last five feet” makes a difference beyond just the wire gauge matching your equipment needs.  The area behind many of our systems is cluttered with cables, some power, some signal. The more cables, the worse the challenge for each cable to do its job, namely keep the signal as intact as possible and delivered from point A to point B, or deliver adequate current to power your gear without affecting the signal in the adjacent cables, and limiting digital hash from entering your power strip/conditioner and eventually affecting your other gear.  
So your power cables have two jobs: 1. play nice with your power supplies, and 2. keep from “polluting” the environment where your other cables are carrying your signals generated in your precious and in many cases dearly priced electronics.  How a power cable performs is completely system dependent, including whether you have a dedicated line, what kind of outlet you are using, do you have a power conditioner, what gear are you using, what is the configuration of your cable looms in the back and what specific cables are you using for analog and digital signals. Engineers spends countless hours attending to the layout of signal and power pathways in their gear.  Whether you are aware of it or not, you are doing the same thing with the cables behind your gear, but likely with much less care.

I now assemble most of my own power cables from parts, but I am running one Shunyata and a “Black Shadow” cable which I like very much.  I am partial to Japanese manufactured wire and connectors but I have been experimenting with some Chinese made products recently and I am finding some of them to be remarkably good for the money, but certainly not all.

The best advice I’ve seen here is to tell the folks at The Cable Co. what gear you have and what your budget is and ask for their recommendations for some cables to borrow below, at, and well above your budget, and then just listen to hell out them and see what you like and what works for you. Because what works will be system dependent the cheapest cable may sound best, or not.  And if none sound better than your stock cables, then you send them all back and are only out the rental fee.

In my Experience solid core (Acoustic Revive, Furutech, Oyaide, Nordost) are much stronger performers than Litz-based cables. Better impulse, transparency and bass, overall more 3-dimensional

Wiring is like a chain. The chain is as good as its weakest link. Since all your house is wired with a Romex cable of appropriate size (typically 15 - 20 amps), adding a much stronger link into the middle of it does NOT make it any better.


The wiring in most residential construction is solid wire which has less resistance than the stranded wire that is used for power cords.

@jerkface,

Sorry I missed the 1K multimedia product you mentioned. 

@jerkface, 

Yes thanks for the reply. Is it REW with the UMIK-1 you are talking about ? 

Any recommendation for make and model, and price of package?

Sure thing.  IK Multimedia does a solid room analysis package with a mic included.  Little slow on shipping right now, thanks to COVID, but...  

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ARC3--ik-multimedia-arc3-acoustic-analysis-and-room-correcti...

I appreciate your input and I’ve learned that treating a room is critical to good sound. I do have panels from vicoustics and gik on the walls. Have a look and tell me what you think. My room question was referring to the fact it’s not a great room really for a high end system being 2 story and open to other areas. I was wondering if there comes a point when continued upgrades would become fruitless because of the room.

My suggestion is, the next investment you make on your system should be on a spectrum analyzer software package, one that has a pre-calibrated microphone included.  That way, you can do your analysis on the room and decide for yourself if you need to put more effort into room correction before you start spending on "last mile" items like power cords.

Believe it or not, the fact that your room is tall and open to other areas is a *benefit*, not a detriment.  Phase cancellation from reflections happens because of proximity between reflective surfaces.  The fewer parallel surfaces you have in your room, the fewer problems you'll have with the room negatively impacting your sound. 

Trust me, it sucks a whole lot worse trying to correct a 12x12x8 square room than it does an open area like yours. 

@johnnyaudiogoon,

Thanks for explaining your experiment.

To tell you the truth, I cannot explain the improvement you are hearing.
The only scientific explanation I can give is the fact that maybe, if your house installation is SO GOOD (ie your chain is already so thick) and much better than both your power cables, it then exposed the shortcomings of your power cables themselves.

Do you have a dedicated special high current wire in your house to the outlet your amp is connected ? 

I cannot think of any other engineering explanation :-)

My wife and my friends wives are listening to music too. So I do not understand why that is a tall tell?

dchang05:  This is so true. Each of us can hear slight changes in our very familiar systems that others can not. It is not because we have 24K golden ears and others have 18K, but rather we're more used to the system. Also it has to be apiece of music we listen to a lot. For this thread it means we have to do the work. taking others opinions from their systems won't mean much in our listening rooms.

I'll second to that. I have a box of power cords acquired over the years. I am familiar with their sound signatures in my setup and in my listening room.

When my friends were in my house one time we were arguing the same things about the effect of PC. So I picked one different PC and ask my friend to either switch it with a component or don't. I stayed at another room. I was able to pick up correctly 100% after a few changes, so was my wife. 

But most of them still could not tell the difference. I learnt that blind test is tricky. Because I am familiar with the sound of my system in my room, and I am very familiar with the sound of my power cords, I could tell the sound change easily and they could not. 

if I am in a different environment and use cables that I am not familiar with, I probably will not be able to tell the difference either.  

@jerkface,

I appreciate your input and I’ve learned that treating a room is critical to good sound. I do have panels from vicoustics and gik on the walls. Have a look and tell me what you think. My room question was referring to the fact it’s not a great room really for a high end system being 2 story and open to other areas. I was wondering if there comes a point when continued upgrades would become fruitless because of the room. 

" the quality of the power cord matters just as much as the quality of the amp"

@Ronboco, you may be a newbie.  Please don't listen to Miller.  The above is possibly the biggest load of hogwash he has ever written.  Being over-generous to him, this is at best a maaaassssssiiiivveee overstatement.

Don’t forget to upgrade the windings in all the voice coils of each transducer/driver, and each inductor in each crossover. Everything in the system that carries electrons needs to be Quantum Tunneled to make sure there’s no atomic breakdown or electron traffic jam...

Or China Syndrome WILL occur.

You’ve been warned. All or NOTHING!

As long as your existing power cable is not any worse than the Romex that is used in your house electrical system, it does NOT matter.  Remember, your house wiring is insurance mandated.  Unless your house was built by a cowboy, you are guaranteed to have a safe 15 - 20 amp wiring.

Wiring is like a chain.  The chain is as good as its weakest link.  Since all your house is wired with a Romex cable of appropriate size (typically 15 - 20 amps), adding a much stronger link into the middle of it does NOT make it any better.

Same with plumbing/piping.  If your whole house is installed with a 1 inch diameter piping, adding a 2 inch diameter pipe just before the faucet does NOT improve the water flow.

Yes you should get better power cables on all your gear because a good power cable is like a good component change and just as important as one and when you ind the right cable you will know it for any piece of gear.

I personally know families of four whose monthly food budget is less than your "low budget" power cable, and not a single post here can articulate what exactly the return on 'investment' is.
When someone says they couldn't believe their ears when they tried a $600 cable, they're either selling snake oil, or trying to convince their wife that they didn't buy snake oil. Again.

I also am considering my room. Does there come a time when tweaks stop being able to be heard because of the room? Is my room good enough to continue upgrading ? 

Do I think expensive power cords are better than the cheaper ones? Well it depends, it is like this as an example, and the number is not necessary accurate either. A $500 PC may improve SQ by 2% from the stocked one. A $5,000 PC may improve another 0.2%. Is it worth it? To some it does. But if you cannot hear the first 2%, considered you’re lucky! 

Shunyata for me.I have a sigma nr an alpha nr, an alpha digital and several deltas. They sure do make a difference and I’ve compared them to ps audio and analysis plus cords that I also have. My theory is that your system is the sum of its parts, so they more weak (parts) links you improve, the better chance it will be able to achieve its full potential. 

I'll give another shout to Shunyata. I have the Delta NR 20 amp for my Simaudo Titan...If your budget is on the lower end try Voodoo Cable Black Magic. I'm actually using this monster (20 amp version) on my Furman Elite 20PFi power conditioner with great results. Under $300 and is built like a tank...Got this from The Cable Co as well...