Hi everyone. I need some education on power cables. I have been reading that a good power cable is vital to a good sounding system. If that is true wouldn’t the companies the make the components include a good power cable to insure their product sounds the best that it can ? Should I evaluate the power cables in all of the components in my system?
Oh boy, is this great?! Ok, I'll start.... First, you have a nicely put together system and a nice room, and the amount of room treatment is impressive. To your questions,
Yes, power cables can make a difference in how your system sounds
No, that truth is not enough for companies to include more expensive power cables - some don't believe anything more is needed and most don't want to increase their price point by adding something that is often added aftermarket, especially since "audiophiles" mostly have their own individual opinions about cables
Yes, you should take a look at your power cables to make sure they have adequate gauge for what they are being asked to do, that they are shielded to resist EMI/RFI, and that the plugs stay secure in the sockets....IMO, that gets you most of the way there and might be a good place to stop thinking about it
You will probably get a lot of opinions here but in the end, only you can make the value decision between how much you want to pay and how big a difference/improvement you believe something achieves. If you search here and other audio forums you will find all the information about power cords you are looking for. I suggest making sure the cord to your big McIntosh amp is at least 12 awg but otherwise, if your system sounds good to you, I wouldn't worry too much. If you really want to spend the money, dedicated power lines would be a good start, IMO.
The info at this link might be helpful. Other than replacing one to correct "inadequate" gauge, I thought power cords making an audible difference was silliness...that is, until I heard an unmistakable improvement switching from a Pangea AC-9 (7awg?) to a Shunyata Venom HC on a Class D amp. The "flat earthers" can rant all they want, I don’t care about convincing them. Decide for yourself. I like Shunyata. There are other options. Rent something (or some things) from The Cable Co. and try on power conditioner (a bigger impact than on the amp), or amp, pre, source, etc.. Experiment. Let your ears decide. Does a system have to be at a certain level of "refinement" for power cords to make a noticeable difference? Maybe. But I can only speak about my experience with my system which, on the continuum of audiophile gear, is mid-fi at best.
Thank you for the room comment. I hope I’ve made it sound about as good as it can. Maybe one day I’ll have a dedicated space. I’ll check the cables on the main components to see if an upgrade would make sense. I do have a sub panel in the basement that is used only for the system if that is what you meant by dedicated power lines. @ghosthouse ,
I have been reading a lot of good things about the Shunyata products so I think I will try one out on the power conditioner and go from there. I will check out the link now. Thank you
@ronboco - The dedicated subpanel is a great way to power your audio. The recommendation of trying cables from Cable Co. by @ghosthouse is good too since everyone ultimately ends up deciding for themselves how far down the cable road to travel.
Companies don't include power cables because: specialization.
It really is that simple.
If you are using freebie rubber power cords then everything out there is such a big step up you cannot possibly go wrong. If you want better then buying a power cord is no different than any other component. Read the reviews, buy the one within your budget that sounds the best. Once again yes it really is that simple.
The hardest part will be to realize that not only is buying one the same as any other component, but the quality of the power cord matters just as much as the quality of the amp.
Thank you for the advice. I’ve been reading good things about the Shunyata products along with their recommendation by ghosthouse above so I’m going to start there. Also Synergystic Research is on my list as well to check out.
Ron - One more suggestion. Seems like power cords by "Audio Envy" are getting a lot of positive buzz around here. I haven’t tried them but an audio-bud has them and by comparison to more expensive cords, he found them much better. There’s at least one thread about Audio Envy on A’gon. Might make some interesting reading for you.
My three rules of audio: 1) There’s always something better sounding out there. 2) You can always spend more. 3) #2 does not guarantee arrival at #1.
Good luck, have fun and hope you find something that lets you enjoy your music even more.
I can't spell Synergistic either. They are however my favorite. Not necessarily because they are the very best. But because they have been so consistently good for so many years there are a ton of them out there and so whatever your budget you can simply buy the newest/best one and be pretty much guaranteed it will sound great.
I had until recently a combination of SR and Shunyata. Caelin Gabriel actually came and demo'd the one I have. He is based just across Puget Sound from me. Those have been replaced with M101 now, insanely better but also a lot more expensive. Oh well the last ones I had were fine for a good 20 years, these will probably be the last ones for me now.
If a manufacturer does not include and “adequate “ power cord....that being the gauge is too small to “adequately “ supply the said component with electricity..... there is another name for that power cord. It becomes a “light bulb”. So why would any manufacturer save money on supplying the customer with a power cord that was too small to do the job? This power cord argument makes no sense.
if you buy a larger gauge power cord than needed the component relies on the incoming fuse to protect it from getting hit with too much power. There is one answer...stay with the cord supplied by the engineers that designed the product. My favorite idea that I’ve read today is from my buddy MC....go with a larger power cord and a fuse with 2-3xs greater rating. Let it roll! I think I’m going to start audio grade fire extinguishers!
the component relies on the incoming fuse to protect it from getting hit with too much power
Uhhh.... fuses aren't current limiting devices. Components draw as much power as they draw, all according to Ohm's law, I=V/R. Put a 10 ohm resistor across a 10 volt potential, it will draw 1 ampere of current for 10 watts (I*V) of power. If you put a 300 amp fuse in front, it still draws 1 amp, because, well, 10 ÷ 10 = 1. Not a problem if it's a 1 watt resistor. But if it's only a half watt resistor, a half amp fuse won't "limit" the current to half an amp. Its filament will melt, releasing the magic smoke that limits the current to exactly 0 amperes, and leaves the component's magic smoke fully intact.
My previous comment also begs the question, if the power cord needs to be triple-ought gauge, quadruple shielded adamantium for audio to sound decent, imagine how much better that $800 cable would sound if 100% of it's current didn't have to travel across the 30 gauge filament of the fuse you got for a couple bucks.
Afuseis anelectrical safety devicethat protects anelectric circuitfrom excessiveelectric current. Fuses are destroyed during overload conditions. When reasonable to do so (and economically sensible),circuit breakersare used instead because they are not destroyed during overload conditions. It's cheaper to install fuses than circuit breakers, but since fuses need to be replaced and circuit breakers don't, fuses have a higheroperational
I think I understand your point...I just can’t explain it. Let me try though, if you had a giant power cord, like half inch thick wires And a circuit blew inside the appliance it doesn’t matter how big the wire is before the fuse...It’s not like the large wire is holding a huge amount of electrical current as if it was water. The fuse was low and that would be the end of it. Am I close? Thanks for pointing that out
Let me try though, if you had a giant power cord, like half inch thick wires And a circuit blew inside the appliance it doesn’t matter how big the wire is before the fuse...It’s not like the large wire is holding a huge amount of electrical current as if it was water
Here's an easier way to explain it.
The gauge/composition of the power cord stops mattering the moment the current hits the very tiny gauge wire on the other end of the power supply connector.
As long as the wire is heavy enough to handle the peak current draw of the amplifier without catching fire, it literally doesn't matter after that point.
But, again, if you're enjoying your $800 power cable more than the stock cable that shipped with your amp, good for you. Keep enjoying it.
So then can you please explain to me what these giant power cords bring to the table? I purchased a couple and I couldn’t notice a difference. I’ve got good hearing and approximately 50 K in my system. I’m trying to figure out what a $10,000 Power cord brings to the equation. I’d love to have an explain to me. Thanks
It's hard for me to explain, too. But, let's say you're replacing a power supply for your laptop or something. You need one with exactly the same voltage, probably 19, but the amps doesn't need to be exact. When the laptop says the power supply is "19V, 5A max," it means 5 is the max amps the device will ever use. So a 19V, 10A supply won't hurt it. The only reason it would draw more power, measured in watts, which is volts x amps, is if there were a short inside the unit, or maybe you attached a 32V supply, or something. In that case, the fuse will burn, cutting all power. Putting a larger fuse in your amp won't supercharge it. It only puts the component in danger. It's like bungy jumping off a bridge and adding 30 feet to the cord so you'll have a longer ride.
So then can you please explain to me what these giant power cords bring to the table? I purchased a couple and I couldn’t notice a difference. I’ve got good hearing and approximately 50 K in my system. I’m trying to figure out what a $10,000 Power cord brings to the equation. I’d love to have an explain to me. Thanks
Asking the wrong person. Personally, I can't even see how such a product could be successfully A/B'ed to ascertain a difference. I don't argue with people who believe in expensive power cables, because to them I'm just pissing on their fun, and I don't want to be that guy.
As far as the power cord, I don't know what they bring. Certainly, you need one that is big enough to supply the current needed. An 16 gauge copper wire is rated for about 20 amps, way more than any consumer grade amp. In fact, your electrical panel breakers are probably only rated for 15. Also, a shielded cable can block RF noise, but only for the length of the cable. It won't do anything about the noise the line picked up from the power station to the outlet you plug it into
the really expensive ones are truly truly excellent at emptying the owner’s wallet
like everything in this pursuit, read up, find reliable sensible respected sources of info and equipment, beware outlandish claims and prices, do limited trials you can comfortably afford to help yourself decide, use common sense
It won't do anything about the noise the line picked up from the power station to the outlet you plug it into
Yup. Which is why money is better spent on an isolation unit like the Tripp Lite IS500 I use for my audio system. Nothing like a big fat toroidal transformer to clean up the noise in your input power.
Power Cords are awesome but i dont thimk you will benefit because the Marantz is too to allow you hear a difference Your system deserves a proper preamp. You can get one with home theater bypass and still use your marantz for cinema. I used to have the av8802 and the multi channel McIntosh, getting a proper preamp was a game changer.
People that claim to hear a "difference/improvement" with a different power cord are deluded. The sound of an electronic component starts with what comes out of the power supply. Not with anything before it!
Would your car have improved gas mileage if you used a custom hose to fill up the gas tank? Same thing applies to power cords, wall outlets, power conditioners.
"...the quality of the power cord matters just as much as the quality of the power amp." - this from mc who is an anti-science proponent of useless/waste of money tweaks.
So then can you please explain to me what these giant power cords bring to the table? I purchased a couple and I couldn’t notice a difference. I’ve got good hearing and approximately 50 K in my system. I’m trying to figure out what a $10,000 Power cord brings to the equation. I’d love to have an explain to me. Thanks
Come hear the ones I have. When you scrape your chin up off the floor take a minute to regain your composure and then explain to me which you would rather have: that sound? Or the explanation?
Yes the can have effects on power supplies. Many say that why get a better pc since what runs through the walls is crap. First make it better and second everything starts in the power supply of a component and not outside our houses. Build it, component, wall outlet, through the walls, circuit breakers, panel, whatever, one step at the time if not all together. This is what i have learned.
Stay with the pc the company supplied with the gear? That makes no sense to me. I've seen the prices for these freebie pc's, 600 bucks for 1000 cords or 1000 bucks for 600 cords thicker gauge, all from China I'm sure! There not worth the trouble to scrap and will just wind up in a landfill. I like to hear Allen Shaw rant on power cords, my favorite.
Since there are so many aftermarket Power cables are selling well, the reasonable explanation is they do make a difference. The audiophiles are the ones pay more attention and enjoy high quality music reproduction. They can not be all crazy.
“If that is true wouldn’t the companies the make the components include a good power cable to insure their product sounds the best that it can ? “
The Marantz reference DAC NA11S1, voiced by K.I. recommends to NOT replace the power cord in the user’s manual. I guess they feel that their DAC sounds the best with the provided one. They don’t include a USB cable but recommend to get the best you can afford.
The only way to acquire education is to audition and see if you appreciate any difference. All else here is "see what I got" and "I say they couldn't make a difference." Unless you can A/B, beware of $$ bias.
FWIW I built my own PC's with Furutec components from CableCo. I was able to make custom lengths and they all hook into my power controller. Are they better than the ones provided? Yes. Are they better than a lot of the custom ones for sale? Who knows. They look great and work great. I had a lot of fun building them.
"Should I evaluate the power cables in all of the components in my system?"
Yes.
The only education you need is to listen to some different power cables. You may be able to get loaners from a local dealer, or use the Cable Company to obtain loaners.
dchang0531 posts04-29-2021 8:42amSince there are so many aftermarket Power cables are selling well, the reasonable explanation is they do make a difference. The audiophiles are the ones pay more attention and enjoy high quality music reproduction. They can not be all crazy.
When you look at the market as a whole, most audiophiles do not use expensive aftermarket cords.
Most audiophile also don't use suitable acoustic treatments, something that is absolutely known to work. Ad populem works both ways.
There are far far too many examples of things with huge followings that do nothing.
Cables are used to fine tune your system to your personal preference. The same rational as why butchers do not season the meat they sell, they leave it up to the customer.
i think a few clarifying comments in response to what has been posted might be warranted... try to perhaps shed some ’light’ on this thread, reduce the ’heat’
1. many expensive things sell well, have many takers -- the fact that they do can have alot of reasons... prestige, satisfaction, pride of ownership, enthusiasm, marketing... one is/may be indeed be ’performance’... however performance is but one of many driving forces in a person buying a luxury good (don’t think anyone would argue a $1,000 ac cord is a necessity...)
2. important to note that pc’s don’t carry an audio signal, where as other hifi cables do
3. pt 2 being said, power cables may in fact subtly affect the sound of a component or a system, but whether it is better should be honestly assessed... different and better should not be conflated -- many speaker cables can subtly alter the sound due to their filtering affects...
4. a-b tests are crucial, but doing them fairly and honestly is a skill and a substantial undertaking in and of itself (other threads exist on this specific topic) - our human minds are very powerful in that they can alter how we perceive reality - the ’want to believe’ factor explains so many of the crazy things and behaviors we witness in our world today, far beyond hifi and buying cables
5. even for most hifi enthusiasts, a critical notion here is the relative value and benefit of money spent on alternate aspects of system building... what is the impact of spending an additional thousand dollars on a power cord (or several thousand on several power cords) versus upgrading a component (cartridge, speaker, dac, amp...), for instance?... we each need to weigh the cost/benefit of choices we have for what to spend money on
Shunyata Research line with Delta D6 power distributor/conditioner outstanding. I personally have the Delta NR cables for my equipment and XC for power to the conditioner. They have serious research by a real scientist. Look at their site and videos.
I'll give another shout to Shunyata. I have the Delta NR 20 amp for my Simaudo Titan...If your budget is on the lower end try Voodoo Cable Black Magic. I'm actually using this monster (20 amp version) on my Furman Elite 20PFi power conditioner with great results. Under $300 and is built like a tank...Got this from The Cable Co as well...
Shunyata for me.I have a sigma nr an alpha nr, an alpha digital and several deltas. They sure do make a difference and I’ve compared them to ps audio and analysis plus cords that I also have. My theory is that your system is the sum of its parts, so they more weak (parts) links you improve, the better chance it will be able to achieve its full potential.
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