There must be good money in the hi-fi retail biz!
Porsche
Never could figure out the affiliation of Porsche to audio gear as there is so much reference to that particular automobile here in this forum. Now I know why, cause it's the "Real Deal!"
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That's great. Many folks have multiple hobbies and enjoy them equally well as the audio hobby. I could go on and on and rant about my Corvette Z06 racing days in Germany and tearing up the Formula 1 race track (Hockenheim Ring) while my sponsors ate brotchen and wurst in our garage, but, I digress. I just wish that I could throw equal amounts of dinero to each hobby at once. It is a one year on and off thing for me. My next thing, either a GT3, C8 Corvette Z06 (waiting on official announcement), Lambo Huracan, or Mclaren 570s. And, that's it, I swear, no more cars....that is what I am telling the wife. |
What a pompus jerk, I stopped doing business with half the BS half truths in many ads ,the prima Luna has been milked more then a 🐄 cow .my friend bought his top preamp ,pretty good parts until you get to the very important volume section . expecting to see a quality resistive ladder volume, or electronics relay type ,not a $20 Alps,or Bourne pot see pictures round silver with conductive pladtic carbon wiper. Any high quality preamp would never do this it destroys fine detail as well as other things . for $5k, look under the hood before you buy !! That’s my viewpoint. |
This is the introduction to his video comparing his 2012 GTS to his 2010 GT3. What does that have to do with Prima Luna? Nothing. It will be interesting to see what he says. The GTS is not a true GT car, not in the Porsche sense. It is really just a Carrera S tarted up with some nice options, notably the X50 engine package. The GT3 by contrast is a genuine GT car, with different suspension, different engine. Not the same suspension with different shocks and springs, a different suspension. Not the same engine with different intake, a completely different engine. It may look like the same car with different spoilers, but it is not. Porsche GT cars are something special. It says a lot about Kevin Deal that he has one. |
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GT = Grand Touring GTS = Porsche Badge that is not limited to the 911 Carrera. The 911 GTS is by no means a tarted up 911. It has a top speed of 193 MPH. It also lops off 6/10 of a second (3.2 vs 3.8) in the standard 0-60 MPH benchmark as compared to a standard 911 (both with the Sport Chrono PKG). That difference is well beyond substantial. As far as tarting a car up goes: 94 more HP and 91 more foot pounds of torque is in the neighborhood of a 25% increase when combining the two increases into a single stat. All that said: let’s not lose sight of the fact that a GT3 barely out performs the GTS, and does so only in place. For instance: the 2 cars share the exact same 0-60 MPH times with the GT3 gaining only 6 MPH in top track speed (199 vs 193 MPH). It must be that whopping 23 more HP the GT3 has over the GTS? All changes aside, and as extensive as they may be, calling the GT3 a tarted up GTS rings much truer than calling a GTS a tarted up 911, when considering performance alone. The fact remains, Porsche builds the GT3 to go racing, and it’s a bonafide race car with its built-in roll cage and other mandated race features that qualify it to be raced in the GT3 class by Porsche and other race teams. You can now get them with Touring packages for those that don’t plan on running them at the track (it does away with the giant swan tail- as they currently call it). |
As far as tarting a car up goes: 94 more HP and 91 more foot pounds of torque is in the neighborhood of a 25% increase when combining the two increases into a single stat Technically one cannot combine those two into a single statistic. The power is a consequence of torque happening through a rotational distance, or a force through a distance. It would be analogous to saying we get V*A, when V is related to A via a derivative, and A is related to V integral. They express the same thing and mirror each other… And hence… this post will likely come across as a third derivative post. |
GT = Grand Touring sorry but so much of this is incorrect... factually and in use... the poster seems to have an interest in these cars but is inexperienced and just mistaken about the history leading to the present of the 911 and its variants |
Sorry my bad, X51. Other than that everything else is spot on. Point being it is just another option, a power kit, that can be ordered on any Carrera S. In sharp contrast to the GT3 which uses a completely different engine. I do not for one second expect those who don't know Porsche to get one word of this. Can't get DBA, MTM, etc how ya gonna get GTS, GT3? You are not. You will always think it is hp and other numbers equally as irrelevant as wpc. As it has been so shall it ever be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOE9mNe5c7M |
I know Porsche pretty well. I have been to the factory four times. For nearly 20 years the GT cars have been built on the same line as other 911s. Yes there are some different bits but it certainly isn't correct to say the GT3 engine is 'completely different'. Miller is just making out he has something really special. More accurate to say it is very nearly the same. For those who unlike Miller are not satisfied by the GT3 experience, I run a 997 GT2 I have had from new in 2008. At that time the most powerful road Porsche ever built, it's 530 turbo powered horses to the rear wheels. Still seriously quick by any standards it does 7.6s to 100mph and 206 for those brave enough. Even today there is no road Porsche with bigger rear tyres. It is a wonderful drive at Goodwood where I take it twice a year. |
Wow… I finally know more about something than Millercarbon. A GT car is NOT a sports car or track car. GT cars are meant for long haul cruising with occasional blasts of Alpine fun. Think Bentley GT. A Porsche 911 Carrera is a sports car. GT3 is more a track car for the road. But when it comes to audio, Millercarbon has me beat everyday. Harman Kardon makes 90% of the in car audio systems wiring looms etc world wide, regardless how they are branded. That is why Samsung bought them. |
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Why am I not surprised a guy who knows nothing about audio also managed to own several Porsches and even tour the factory and yet not know the Mezger engine was used in GT3 up until the 991. Since this video is a 997 that means the GTS has the normal engine with power kit while the 997GT3 has the Mezger. https://www.total911.com/technology-explained-mezger-engine/ This engine uses a true dry sump design from motorsport making it much more reliable for track use, hence the GT3. Read it and weep fellas, read it and weep. The thread is now open for apologies. Don't be shy. |
this isn’t the right place to get into minutae on porsche 911 history, racing heritage, model variants, engine types, hans mezger, andi preuninger, modern evolution/devolution, what was/is a ’gts’ designation on a base model such as 911, cayman, macan, and so on anyone who cares to learn everything on the topic should go to rennlist.com like a-gon, the search function there is your friend, and will help build your knowledge quickly and efficiently |
not making a dig, just an observation, which i believe to be true i don’t know you in person, you may well be a swell guy without the keyboard and the screen name but with your persona here, i would think a big boy like you would be more used to the incoming and just shrug it off the rest of us here are just trying to discuss the hobby, share info, learn and contribute back where we can, be friendly, have fun, in way that doesn’t diminish others unnecessarily anyhow, hope you have a great holiday weekend and are enjoying the music |
I've paid my share of the Porsche tax! Had 87 944S track car, 88 944 Turbo S Silverrose track car, 89 944TS stroker 2.85 400hp track car My street Porsches 96 911 993 speedyellow Turbo 3.8 conversion 600hp/595 ft lb's of torque on pump gas @ 1 bar plus lot's of additional performance goodies, but it also had a nice audio system MB Quartz speakers, Bluetooth head unit, woofers Hertz amp and sounded excellent, but not as glorious as that flat six coming on to boost! Oh, l also have 78 911SC with low miles The Porsches are like my stereo equipment that l bought in the ninities that were simple, well engineered, well made and still working flawlessly today |
1. Everyone bickering, meanwhile a GT2 owner is among us. True enthusiasts would be peppering clearthinker with questions about how awesome it would be to have a GT2. 2. As you probably know, a car is not classically a great environment for fidelity, but the modern Porsche Bose systems are better than the stock system in any other car I have. The Burmester is better, for sure, but it depreciates at twice the rate of the rest of the car. If you are an audiophile it's "worth it" but not by much. Just temper your expectations and you will be happy. 3. The Macan and Cayenne are wonderful cars but physics is cruel and at the end of the day you manage to accelerate a little faster with less roll on the twisties than you would in a RAV4 or 4Runner. All for the price of steeper depreciation and $500 oil changes. IMO a Panamera Turbo is "worth it" but a Cayenne/Macan (even a Turbo or GTS) isn't. 4. I'd love to daily a GT3 Touring but lol those are at the epicenter of the post-COVID-cool-car boomlet. Look at the trends on Bring A Trailer. 5. The GT4 is clearly the best bang for the buck (from a driver's perspective) in the last half-decade of Porsches. Ps01529 is onto something. Just my opinions. Which are all correct. |
My Porsche driving experience goes back to the one I drove while in college, having graduated in ’66. I’ll let you do the math. It was a mildly rusted 356b Speedster that had a blown engine that was replaced with a VW motor. Driving the rural back roads of Vermont and New Hampshire in something so light and tossable is more memorable than anything I can say I’ve experience in my current 993C2 with all it’s RS goodies. The point is Porsches are not and never have been about horsepower or acceleration but rather the driving experience. |
The point is Porsches are not and never have been about horsepower or acceleration but rather the driving experience. There is no substitute. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM2eMhY53N4 |
I like Porsches. Had two of them, among many Italian exotics. One bonus of the Porsche was that it didn't attract the kind of attention that some of the Italian cars did. The GT2 I had was from the 996 platform, which in my estimation, fell short in a number of ways having nothing to do with performance, as such. I had the club sport (or whatever they call those options) installed after the car arrived; roll bar, sports seats, multipoint harnesses, different exhaust, etc. Thing was rigid as hell. I used to commute to NYC in it occasionally. The other was a late 993 c4 cabrio which was a nice GT car but not as light or tossable as the smaller, early 911. They make the best production cars on the road in my estimation. Now that I'm in Texas, I see far fewer exotics (the occasional baby Lambo or current Ferrari) but lots of good ol' 'Merican iron. Some of these are survivor cars- not worth the money to restore but cool as hell. I'm kind of out of the car thing, at least for now. We were coming back from ranch country up near the Oklahoma border yesterday and it was about 104F on Interstate 35. I just couldn't imagine an open top car in that kind of heat. Oh, I know purists like hardtops for rigidity and safety, but my joy was doing the B roads in an open car. The last "serious" car I had was a '20s era open top boat tailed speedster. It was rare and so were parts. I bought it as a cheaper alternative to a Bentley 3/4.5 "special" but by the time I was done sorting it, I coulda had the early Bentley. I love all automobiles from a sort of design/engineering standpoint- Ramblers, micro-cars, the French art-deco bodied stuff from the '30s. It's all good. Until you have to start restoring one. I think one of the most beautiful post war cars made was the BMW 3.0CS. Gorgeous. Another car that is probably not worth the expense of restoring, but back in the day, man, that would have been a great car to own (especially if you lived in Germany). At one point, I had a '69 MB 6.3 liter. It was like a baby 600. Very cool sedan with a big motor, oligarch interior fittings, adjustable suspension. Lots of things to go wrong. Or those '70s era Aston Martin Lagonda limo things. Talk about a money pit. But cool in a quirky way. Apologies for the ramble.... Carry on. |
MC- oh yeah, and the CGT more so, based on some of the stats. One of the things that GT2 did do well was put down its power smoothly, and there was plenty of grip, so you could move ahead quite quickly, especially once the turbos really kicked in. I never liked turbo cars for their binary quality (Jeckell/Hyde) but I gather the 930 was a handful. The guy who serviced them had a lot of rare stuff-- aside from the celebrity cars , real factory race Porsches that were made based on the general contours of the 911, early pristine 911S (73 and earlier), etc. All were customer cars (though I’m sure some trade was done). One of my biggest criticisms of the car (in its 996 guise) was the interior- a plastic, here’s a push button tray made out of plastic in a 200K dollar car (more when you add all the equipment they wouldn’t allow the car to come in with by buying on the dealer side here). There was also something special about the "click/clack" of the gated gearbox in the Ferraris. I gather that’s history now and they don’t even offer a manual shift car. The gated shifter was part of a ballet of driving the older cars, which depended on revs to get torque and speed. 12 cylinders sounds big, but the engines needed to be run hard to get speed. Porsche can make monster speed- almost no contest. There is something quite appealing about older cars, which is why I bought the pre-war car. If I had found the right XK140 drophead, I might have been happy for a while. I was no longer into speed, or even measured events, but more into the long distance rally. We did the Targa Florio back in the ’oughts’ and it was fun even in a Flintstone mobile. |
Yeah, sound systems in high performance cars are a waste. I wanna hear what’s going on on the road. I had a fancy system installed in my first Ferrari (McIntosh amp, etc.) and about 3 or 4 weeks after I had the car, had him remove all of it and put a blank plate where the radio was meant to go. In a big Euro Sedan, we had a kick ass stereo installed; the woofers ate up half of the trunk space. It was amusing. And then we moved on.... |
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The point is Porsches are not and never have been about horsepower or acceleration but rather the driving experience.Amen...... '63 PORSCHE 356B Super 2021 PORSCHE 992 Carrera S Guess which is more FUN.....? |
