New speakers unveiled from Clayton Shaw - Caladan

knocck1,

Looking forward to hearing your review when you get your speakers

@vthokie83 Thanks for really outstanding review. Now, I am even more anxious for mine to arrive, hopefully any day now.

Tweak1,

Will probably wait until 100 hours or so before messing with placement, I want the speakers broken in before playing around too much

@vthokie83 

Great report. I prefer OB to box speakers, especially when boxes are < 10K. If possible bring speakers out another foot. either way listen to a well known song from your seat, then stand up and walk toward the speakers. If the sound stage and depth get bigger/deeper then reduce the face angle

Also, everything should begin to settle in around 100 hours

hth

dz13,

I certainly agree with your point, speaker placement and room treatment are going to be important. The only issue is that Clayton did not provide any placement thoughts with the speakers, and the only first hand account I can find is the one that I just posted.

@vthokie83 Thanks for the report. I want to confirm that speaker placement is going to do a lot. These are dipole speakers so they are projecting back as well as forward. Some of the bass and soundstage/imaging/presentation is going to be related to how far you have them into the room and what you have behind them.  

Okay here you go, first listening notes from 3 days of listening to the Clayton Shaw Caladans. I am not very good at describing what I hear, so don't fry me on that.

1. I warmed the speakers up just for a couple of hours by connecting to my system in my office, and let maybe 4 CDs play through them without any listening. Moved them to my current listening space, and connected to my equipment. It was all left on for 24 hours previously to be warmed up sufficiently. I did two listening passes through each CD, over 3 days
2. I must also say that my current listening room is in no way optimal, I’d say it’s below average. My wife decided she wanted to swap the living room with the family room, and my gear now resides in the living room which has minimal treatment (curtains and wool area rug; open concept to two other rooms. I can definitely tell the negative difference in rooms, both with my existing Thiel CS2.3 and Buchardt Audio S400 MKII speakers. I am constructing a listening room, but that is a bunch of months out
3. Having never owned open baffle speakers before, I did not know what to expect. I will certainly say that they are much more workable compared to my traditional speakers, in their current room
4. Each time I sat down with the intention to listen for a few hours, the next thing I knew it was many hours later, and I had done no work for the afternoon. It eventually piled up, and had to spend a couple of days catching up. These are really fun speakers
5. Gear used: Audiolab 6000 CDT transport > Morrow Audio DIG4 digital coax cable > Denafrips Pontus II DAC > Morrow Audio MA4 XLR cables > Denafrips Hades preamp > Morrow Audio MA4 XLR cables > Denafrips Thallo amplifier (120 watts 8 ohm/220 watts 4 ohm) > Anti-Cables Level 3.1 speaker cables > Clayton Shaw Caladan speakers
6. Music used (all CD, whole album listened to): Poi Dog Pondering “Wishing Like a Mountain and Thinking Like a Sea” & “Pomegranate” – Eagles “One of These Nights” – Nirvana “MTV Unplugged” – Chris Isaak “Heart Shaped World” – Gorillaz “Demon Days” – The Talking Heads “Stop Making Sense Remastered” – Chris Stapleton “Traveler” – 10,000 Maniacs “MTV Unplugged” – Johnny Cash American IV - Supertramp “Crime of the Century” – Dire Straits “Brothers in Arms” – Memoirs of a Geisha “Soundtrack” – The Civil Wars “Barton Hollow” – Atlanta Rhythm Section “Champagne Jam” – Amy Winehouse “Back to Black”
7. Several of the albums I chose for their difficulty. Some can be bright, some can be congested (Poi Dog sometimes up to 16 musicians and vocalists on stage), some to get a variety of genres, and some because I just love the album.
8. Take my listening notes with a grain of salt, if your musical tastes vary from mine. I do not listen to classical, chamber music, opera, jazz, fusion jazz, electronical (mostly), Norah Jones (or the like), or too much country
9. Speakers about 2 feet into the room, seating position 8 feet from speakers, and speakers about 8’ between the tweeters. Speakers toed in so they were each aimed just outside of my ears, maybe 12”…..I did not try playing with positioning beyond that
10. Initial thoughts –

1. These are the best speakers I have ever owned.
2.  Bass is a little laid back, but slowly improved throughout the next few days, was never muddy…..quick, punchy, detailed, not overly deep. I’m not sure if that is just the OB design, or improper placement, or needing to break in the woofers
3. Voices are incredible, male and female. Clear, articulate, great tone and full of body, I was able to understand words in songs that I know the words to but couldn’t clearly make out otherwise. I could pick out different vocalists when they were singing at the same time. Vocals were natural and without any harshness, showed all the nuances and grit and vibrato and breath and failings (Chris Stapleton, Natalie Merchant, David Byrne, Johnny Cash), almost like a live performance, dynamic changes from soft to crescendos were effortless. Vocals kept between speakers and could place where vocalists were on the stage even with multiple vocalists, great emotion. Chris Issak’s voice was brilliant, hypnotic
4. Complicated songs and music where there were a lot of musicians and vocalists (Talking Heads, Poi Dog Pondering, Gorillaz), were rendered more like a live setting where you can place and distinguish each, articulate and detailed without being jumbled or confused
5. Some songs that can be bright and brittle with intertwined detail (Poi Dog Pondering, Supertramp, Gorillaz) were delivered much more clearly and individually and smoothly, with no sense of being overwhelmed, I could separate an electric violin from a cello from saxophone from a mandolin from bells from recorder from synth from horns while they were all being played simultaneously, multiple percussion instruments from each other, and multiple vocalists. They all had their own space and somewhat their own location
6. Imaging and soundstage and presentation – For now the soundstage is limited to the outer edges of the speakers, a little beyond……soundstage height is very good, depth is there more than my current Buchardt Audio S400 MKIIs, but at this point the soundstage is not “magical” like I’ve heard on some systems. The sound does not seem to come from the speakers, it is more presented from a stage of sound. I certainly need to play around positioning more, but for now this is where I am
7. So far so good. I am ecstatic with the speakers, I suspect there is a lot of testing with speaker placement and just getting used to open baffle. I also suspect that my current electronics, while good, are not going to really allow the Caladans to reach their full potential. My new Aric Audio Motherlode XL preamp will be here in a couple of months, and CODA S5.5 amp in a couple of weeks

vthokie83 Thanks for the pictures and updates.  I am excited to hear what gear you use with these and your thoughts.  I may purchase new components, but I want to hear some feedback from others 1st.  I am still several months out on my order.   

I am heading out of town early in the morning tomorrow, and I can't get the picture link to work.....here are some urls for pics to paste

https://imgpile.com/i/xoTwIW
https://imgpile.com/i/xoT5MP
https://imgpile.com/i/xoTh8j
https://imgpile.com/i/xoTRA1
https://imgpile.com/i/xoTTeL
https://imgpile.com/i/xoTdCx

I'll keep my comments to the product that Clayton delivers, which is the Caladan. Assembly took about 30 minutes per speaker, and all parts were included including a wrench and torx head screwdriver. Once assembled, the speaker baffle tilts back maybe 6 to 8 degrees....but that is of course adjustable as well with the Gaia III feet. All components appear to be those hinted at on other forums or on their website, namely:

IsoAcoustics Gaia III feet, WBT Nextgen 0703 binding posts, Jupiter twisted pair lacquered cotton wiring, US Coils air coils, Jupiter copper foil and Dayton Audio capacitors, and Dayton Audio wire wound resistors.

The maple baffle slabs that I ordered my speakers in, are 1.5" thick, very attractive and blemish free. I will post images if I can get imgpile to upload correctly.

I am leaving early tomorrow morning for vacation, so unfortunately I won't be able to get any listening impressions until I get back next Tuesday.

We are all learning from each other.   We are all each others Guru brothers (and sisters).  We are a projection machine.  We see nothing but our own self.  When you point the finger at someone.....three are pointing back to you.  Love yourself so much that all you see is EVERYONE's beauty.

Jaytor,   Check out the two pics on the bottom of my webpage about making these and other bi-amped versions.  The first pic shows someone who has a two way speaker using two ($20 each) 12s and the planar driver.  That is not a box....it is an open baffle speaker.....with a top on it (no back).  You can see his separate baffle for the planar that can be moved up and back.  The picture of my baffle is below....it has a shelf on it.  Of course, you could make a separate baffle for say 4 12 inch woofs and next to it another baffle with a line source of planars and then physically time align the two baffles.  Two 12s is plenty of bass for me.  I will, no doubt, make a line source of 4 of the 8 inch planars down the road.....then comes bi-amping and dsp speaker eq.

This is not a good design for a number of reasons. If you are looking for a dipole you are far better off with Maggies or ESls. All dipoles require subwoofers without exception, not just for better bass, but for cleaner midrange. Any woodworker with a moderate amount of skill could make these speakers in their sleep. I could do it comatose. I also hate BS and that video is full of it. 

Hope Clayton does well. Those who say OB speakers have no bass have not heard Clayton Spaital Audio speakers or his current one and I am sure there are more upscale ones to come. I've owned box speakers and Electrostatic speakers, open baffle is like Quad ESL 63's but on steroids. It is one of the only speakers I heard where I would replace my quad ESL speakers that were rebuilt by Electrostatic Solutions in KC, I still love them even though I went OB. They image well and as far as needing some space from the front wall, all speakers do. Even my sealed box speakers the Dynaudio Confidence 5's did and 2 feet out or more they came to life. The one thing oB by Clayton Shaw Designs does extremely well is make the reproduction of the music sound like it is in your room live. Quads can do it at times, but they cannot do the spl like OB speakers.  Box speakers push sound at you, bass will be authoritative if you have the proper room or you will have bass overload, one thing OB by design eliminates by its design, bass is very fast, and detailed and can make you feel it if it is recorded that way, where box speakers give to to you all the time, when the recording should not have bass to that extent due to room build up and enforcing issues. Quad speakers and OB like a front wall with acoustic treatments, side wall early reflection points, and any room back wall defussion. But really all speakers need a good room to work in. So OB is no different than many other speakers, it's an old myth now, OBs have come into their own now, bottom end, imaging, and depth of field. The only thing that bothers me about Clayton is he starts up a company then turns around and sells it. I think this is his 3rd company now. But his designs are sound.. 

@ricevs - how are you going to mount the planar tweeter too time align it with the woofers?  Are you going to use a deep wave guide?

@ricevs  Lots of ASSumptions, maybe you could teach Clayton Shaw thing or two🙄

I am about to order the 4 woofs for my own diy open baffle speaker.   Same woofs as in the Caladan but I want to try a $50 dipole planar on top crossed over at 400hz.  Theoretically speaking, it should be way better than the Caladan.  You can make it yourself for around $1300.  You can also buy the two tweeters that Clayton uses for less than $100 and do a Caladan clone for about the same price.  But I don't think a forward firing $40 tweeter crossed over at 1K will be anywhere near as good as a dipole planar crossed over at 400hz......and my speaker will be time aligned....unlike the Caladan where the tweeter sound hits your ear way before the rest of the spectrum.  Of course you could set back the tweeter on a Caladan clone but it would not look anything like a Caladan and Clayton would not want to go to that trouble for such a budget speaker.

If this sounds as good as I think, I will open my place to people in the Bay Area to come over and listen (for free).  I am not making speakers......just promoting the idea.  Check out my webpages for more info....if you have not already.  These speakers are so easy to make even a 10 year old could do it (intelligent and co-ordinated and supervised...of course).

Of course, even bigger versions could be made with a line source of planars and bi amping, etc.  But even the basic one would probably beat most $10K speakers.  You can build a crude version in one day.....just need a jig saw and a screw driver.  Buy the plywood at Home Depot and have them cut it to your size......you just cut the round holes and assemble.....easy as pie.

I should have this all done in about one month.  Stay tuned for more info.   This goin' to be fun!!!!!

That should be Gaia III feet, not Gaia II

Well, well, well great news, the Clayton Shaw Caladan speakers showed up this evening, serial number 00023. Double wall boxed, cleverly and well packed; delivered by UPS. Two sets of 2 stand leges, two sets of four Gaia II feet, needed screws to mount the brackets and feet. Speakers (without stands and feet) are surprisingly manageable weight wise. I'm not one for an "unpacking" video, but in the morning tomorrow I'll unwrap the speakers and get them assembled.....and put some pics up

Just if it makes you feel better, you are not alone in the predicament of anticipation.

Damn, just checked the tracking number and it's now showing delivery Tuesday or Wednesday.....anticipation

@vthokie83 - Congrats. That's exciting. These seemed like very nice speakers for their price point when I heard them at Capital Audio Fest.

Great news. Looking forward to see the photos and see your opinion.

I placed the order three weeks after you did (maple as well). Hopefully this would mean about three weeks wait for mine. 

@vthokie83 Lots of new toys coming! Let us know they all work out!

Just received an email from Clayton this afternoon, giddy up:

"Hello Brian,

Your pair of Caladans are en route and are scheduled to arrive on Saturday February 03 

TRACKING NO:  

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX1

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX2

There will be the legs and feet at the top of the foam block visible when you lift off the outer carton shell. Mount the legs to the baffle with the supplied screws and screwdriver.  Let me know if you have any questions

Thanks,

Clayton"

I will post some pictures once they arrive and I get them unpacked, will probably let them come to temperature a day before hooking them up.

Anyone get their speakers or hear anything?

Ordered on January 6th and my number is much higher than 1,000...prepared for a long wait. Maybe by April. Hopefully.

It appears that I am not that good in counting zeros🙄

Me bad.

The real question… is the first order specified as #1… or does the sequence start higher… maybe 500… or 750???

Does anyone have #1?

Is it ten thousand or one thousand? If 10k that would be WOW!

I placed the order on Nov 22 and the number is 857.

I am curious about everyone's order number.  Maybe we can make an estimate/guesstimate on production units per month.  I ordered in early January, and I am ~order 1000.  How about you all? 

While ric is right, as usual, I don't have the equipment to DIY. Anyway, by comparison to many/most similar speakers, they cost a lot more

Jaytor,

Excellent summary of your listening experience.  I have heard Spatials with LTA more than once and I had the same impression as you did. At the PAF, the front end of the Spatials with Don and Lynn's gear and the stellar Lampizator DAC was something very special.  But those Spatial were around $9K and the Caladan speaker are a third of that cost so compromises likely had to be made.  Your review is a good data point for us devotees of Clayton's speakers.  Thanks for sharing it.

I spent some more time in Clayton’s room at CAF. I thought the speakers sounded nice for the money. They didn’t sound honky or boomy like some systems did at the show, but I didn’t think they were better than his earlier products. I thought the system I heard at PAF was considerably better, although I think this was at least partially due to Don Sach’s and Lynn Olsen’d excellent electronics coupled with the Lampizator DAC. 

The new speakers lacked some of the dynamics and clarity of Spatial’s more expensive offerings, and had a bit of a hard edge to the treble, which I think is probably due to the LTA electronics (I’ve found this true with other LTA auditions). The bass performance was also a touch less controlled. 
 

But of course this was in a different room which was far from ideal, so an audition in your own room with your own gear is the only way to truly assess. 
 

Still, for $3000, this is a very credible offering. There aren’t many speakers at this price point that do as well. They look nice as well. 

@jrimer I went to my first audio show in July this year at Pacific Audio Fest and that is one of the main things I noticed along with several rooms playing music too loud. A lot of modern music doesn''t have wide open space and is more challenging. When I asked for the music I listened to, many of the speakers sounded pretty average. 

If the Caladans are anything like the Spatial Audio Q6s (Spatial Audio has voluntarily put the production of the Q6 speakers on pause since they wouldn't be needed if Clayton can essentially duplicate the sound at 1/2 the price -- according to Spatial Audio on their own website) I heard at PAF, they are really nice. They were also played with LTA equipment which is good stuff but the amps Don Sachs has made including his upcoming new stuff really goes to a new level. 

Thanks for your update!

I just returned from CAF. We spent about 30 minutes in this room listening to these speakers. They were in my top 4 or 5 speakers I heard at the show. The top 3 were all over $50k. I attended with a friend who has his own opinions of what he liked. He had them as third best speaker at the show. 
A note about evaluating systems at these shows. If you don’t play more mainstream music, I can’t truly evaluate a system. Walking into a room with 10 minutes of classical acoustic guitar or some tribal chant doesn’t tell me a damn thing about a system. Play real music, please. I’m happy your speaker can reproduce brushed cymbals with aplomb. Now show me some vocals and substance. Nobody cares how well your system can reproduce a piano if Norah Jones sounds like George Jones. This room played MUSIC. The other systems I evaluated highly did likewise. Rant over. For now.  

Anymore show feedback?

Clayton's room also debuted LTA's DAC, AD chip and ZOTL tube output stage, the system was clear, delicate, dynamically alive, and the bass had weight, quickness, and did have punch when required, welcome back Clayton.

The room was pretty crowded so I only listened to them for a few minutes and I was on the side of the room. I hope to get back later in the show. I couldn’t really assess the imaging and sound stage, but they sounded clean with good tone, nice range, and punchy bass. They were using LTA electronics. 

Hopefully someone is going to Capital Audiofest, and will report back on the speakers.....not sure who's electronics are with them

I am with Audioman on this one.  My M4TM's have resided about 16" from a well-treated back wall and they sound sensational.  I moved them further out many times, but the result was that I only loss bass response .  Easy for me to say the Spatials are the least sensitive to room placement of any speakers I have had, other than Linkwitz speakers.  The Magnepans clearly need far more room, dunno why.  

Yes, maybe you can get acceptable sound...and in some cases maybe even good sound with open baffles at 2 feet....But....I don't think you can apply a universal rule when it comes to open baffle location and best sound because of how much room influence there is. 

When I owned the Spatial Audio M3 Sapphires, I started at 30"....then 40" then 50"...and in my room, ended up at 41" as the "best sounding" location.

I tried the same with the Magnepan LRS+..and ultimately ended up with 60".

I heard the Caladan on YouTube , they sound very very good.

I had the older spatial 4 and other open baffle speakers 

you don’t need 2 feet mine with room panels behind them had onky 16 inches and toed in a bit and worked very well just have carpeting at least in front of them and some absorption , bass is still very fast and open .

More made-up crap dredged up from the deep.

A tip for all ye future entrepreneurs:

A) Buy all drivers from someone else!!!!! (no aptitude required)

B) Stick it on a slab of wood...open baffle!!! (No aptitude/in depth knowledge of anything required)

C) Cook a lil crossover (use some garbage in/garbage out software to get you in the ballpark)

D) Claim you are very passionate

E) Pay a couple of youtube reviewers (advertisers) and forum pied pipers (pretend customers) to sing praise for your low aptitude song bird.

..................

Shake yo low aptitude $$$$$$$ maker...Shake it like a salt shaker....$$$$$$$$$

Me too, I am in Sactown.  Thanks!

I was responding to a post by Nonoise......but I don't see his post.  Anyway, some Info for you.

 

Makes sense....😄

I was basing what I said on Ron's findings over at New Record Day (YouTube). He's heard all the versions of Clay's previous efforts (having owned some). It's in the link posted earlier.

All the best,
Nonoise