New MOFI speaker (Andrew Jones)

@nonoise : it sounds like you need to pull the trigger 

@thyname , man, are you telling me! A friend messaged me with that video and got me all aflutter again.

All the best,
Nonoise

Copied from an email I received from MoFi regarding the SP 10 stands:

"Hi Gary, thanks for your email and sorry for the delayed response! That is correct – we will offer the matching stands and they are expected to ship in January. They will be $500 for the pair, and are a four pillar stand. We don’t have pictures available of the final design right now, but samples can be seen in the coverage from Capital Audio fest.

 We will also offer a discounted bundle package of the speakers and stands for a total of $3,999 (effectively $200 off). For anybody that is buying the speakers now, we will grandfather in the discount price on the stands when they become available. An alternative we are recommending are the 20-inch Pangea stands which retail for $249."

the Pangea stands are as ugly as it gets

Just wonder how many forumers here actually place an order for SP10?

^ So youre asking if Mofi’s Marketing campaign has worked well?

These speakers sound Much Better with good Tube amps ! 😃

$10K BAT Tube Integrated amp. 

Near the end of this video the Audio Reviewers were shocked at how good this system sounded !.. 

I would love to hear these speakers with the Tekron 211 SE Tube amp or the all new Western Electric 91E 300B Integrated amp!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU67rJ33eZw&t

In the video above they were using the all new BAT VK-80i Tube Integrated amp and it’s really good too! You know when a Audio Reviewer in the video above starts talking about over $300K in Gear you know your doing something right !

Here’s a review on the all new BAT VK-80i Integrated amp

https://www.hifinews.com/content/bat-vk-80i-integrated-amplifier

 In another review The Absolute Sound, the Reviewer said, "There's no turning back !" 

The stand has four square tubular steel uprights and a top and bottom metal plate (the uprights can be filled with sand or kitty litter, etc.) and look a bit like Sound Anchor stands.  I think they look pretty good.  The overall look is, in my opinion, prnice, but, it really is a fairly big speaker (hard to appreciate how big it is just from pictures).  The faceted front baffle is, to me, more interesting to look at than a plain, flat baffle, and it serves the sonic purpose of reducing diffraction effects.  

My only quibble with the speaker is one that I have with the vast majority of speakers on the market--it needs a tweeter level control (L-pad) so that one can make minor changes in the frequency response balance of the speaker; for my taste, I would at least want to try turning down the tweeter just a tad.

Incredible Demo of Andrew Jones New Mofi Speaker - SourcePoint 10 - YouTube

As if the A'gon world needs it, here's another video from Just Audio.
Warning: the presenter is more than a bit over the top in his style and manner so don't let that put anyone off (kinda reminds me of good old Crazy Eddie from back in the day).

And they're using Wharfedale Litton speaker stands and they look perfectly fine on those 17 inch stands.

All the best,
Nonoise

Hope they live up to the hype. Otherwise, they will be in the clearance bin at Musci Direct.... 

The video is nasty. 

Yeesh.  That video review was like "Bros Gone Wild."  Pretty hard to get through and the sonic descriptions rather...lacking.

There's actually a decent owner report in the comment section below the video, though, for someone who just received the MoFi speakers.

I warned ya. But don't look down your noses so much lest you come across as some relic from the Victorian ages. 

All the best,
Nonoise

I really want to hear them in person. 

I thought they were bright at first when I heard them, but then realized they just told what was on the source when Jones played the female vocal track during his demo; very smooth but revealing. These can’t possibly live up to the expectations placed on them, but every retailer is hoping to cash in on these.

I appreciate the last video posted because it showed the insides of the speaker......great cabinet and damping for the money......but the xover, and wires and push on connectors and input connectors are just ordinary Chinese good parts. Wait till someone removes the xover and does a super outboard xover using state of the art parts and wires and hardwired inputs. If someone in the Bay area gets a  pair they can bring them here and I will do what I just suggest. Will blow your mind how much better they will be with super outboard xover.....................However, even better would be to just hardwire some super wire directly to the voice coil wires of the drivers and remove the crossover and store it away somewhere. Remove the binding posts from the plate and run the wires outside long enough so they go to the floor underneath the speaker where you hook the wires up to a Peachtree Gan1 digital amp......one stereo amp per channel. You get a Minidsp Flex all digtial xover and you bi amp using the two Peachtree amps......all connected together with coax digital cables. You can use a streamer into the xover or if you just want to play a cd player you can run that into the xover and use the volume control in the xover. Digital amps like the Peachtree (more coming....real soon) allow you to get rid of your DAC, preamp, normal amps, and analog cables......the purity is amazing and when you get rid of the ordinary xover parts in the speaker and bi-amp you will be in heaven. You set the xover point at where Andrew started (1.6K) but with steeper slopes you could probably run the tweeter to 1 K or lower with even more transparency. With the digital xover you can do anything you like....eq, crossover freq....slope....delay......super fun.

This speaker biamped using two GaN based digital amps will simply blow, blow blow your mind.....gently down the stream....he he.

I love my Emerald Physics 3.4s, open baffle, concentric 12" driver with 1" polyester tweeter, and outboard XOs, so I am set up for a digital amp, though currently am using Rics short-lived EVS 1200, which after a total cable upgrade sound vastly better than when I first bought it (which was still darned good), plus, I moved away from CD players used as transport: the Audiolab 6000CDT is an unbelievable bargain. EPs come up FS occasionally, and at terrific prices, way lower than the MoFis

"but the xover, and wires and push on connectors and input connectors are just ordinary Chinese good parts"

ricevs caught what I suspected.

Just a matter of time until GR Research has a customer bring in a pair for Danny to give his impression of what's inside the box. I'm curious what his upgrade "kit" will be for this "flavor of the month" speaker.

Without even getting confirmation, experienced listeners know just about all boxes except maybe the uber priced models will have some Xover components that are compromises to make a price point.

Based on the gushing, maybe it's a rare "leave it alone" creation, and no real mods unless you're a graph perfomance type?

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, maybe in 2 years we'll see these blown out for 1/2 price like the Elac Adante series which was another A.J. creation.

For half of MSRP, the SourcePoint 10 will be "THE BEST" speaker buy.

Wow. How do I follow that? How about with this,

Keep in mind that the person who bought the Sourcepoint 10 is Steve McCormack. Yes, that Steve McCormack.

All the best,
Nonoise

Mods to the Mofi will not make it measure better.....I am sure it measures really flat......However, with better parts....wire, jacks, coils, caps, resitors and other tweaks it will reach another level.  This is normal stuff....nothing being invented here.  You can always make something better.  Nothing is perfect......but bi-amping with digital amps.....now that can be crazy good!

I listened to the Mo-Fi Source Point 10s today! :-)

I take it from the notations following the exclamation mark that you were happily impressed?

@prof, please tell us more!

Well, here's another very positive review of the Sourcepoint 10 speakers:

And yes, I'm leaning more and more on getting a pair.

All the best,
Nonoise

Ok I'm just going to paste what I wrote in another forum, from my listening session with the Source Point 10s:

------------------------------------------

Source Point 10s:

The SP10s were in a dedicated room, I'm guessing maybe 12' wide by maybe 16' deep, set up on the short wall, pulled probably about 4 feet in to the room, mild toe in towards the seating position. Listening sofa was probably 9 feet or so from the speakers. Room had some sidewall treatment - absorption mostly I think, maybe some diffusion.

First impression visually: Everyone who has reviewed these is right. They look "kinda big" for stand mounted speakers in photos and videos, but in person you will let out an involuntary Keannu Reeves level "Whoah!" They are beasts. Big, blocky, imposing in a room. Not something one will sneak past the other half. This is dedicated room type stuff - like the speakers should be paying rent! The finish (walnut) was "nice" though not in to the "lux" category. As for wider baffle design speakers I really like the Devore O/96 which are even wider, but to me the SP10s, while not ugly (I kind of like the design) are more imposing visually, almost brutalist in their presence.

Before I get in to details, my main take away was: I get why people are liking these speakers. I can see how they will become quite popular. I personally found them to have a fairly attractive sound, as a place to visit, but not to live with, if you know what I mean. And a major take away - these beasts are finicky!
Which will come out when I try to describe what I heard.

I listened to various tracks - first selections by the salesman, Addelle, Tracy Champman (fast car), some jazz/pop, some Zeppelin, then some of my usual test tracks.

From a seat on the listening sofa, leaning forward a bit, I was probably around 8 feet from the speakers and the immediate impression was of a big, rich, warm sound with a slight peak in the upper mids/lower highs, and beyond that a slight lack of "air." So for instance a track with stand up bass, female vocals, acoustic guitar, sax, drums etc, the sound was very big, rich, room filling from the upper bass down, the vocals had enough body to sound somewhat natural, and atop that "dark rich bassy" sound there was a sparkle so that the acoustic guitars would pop out in a nice, vivid manner, as would higher vocal transients, drum cymbals, upper register of a sax being played hard. So that richness with sparkle was quite inviting, and I can see how many would like it. It did, as mentioned, seem more rolled off in the highest frequencies lacking that last bit of shimmer or 'air' that makes a cymbal sound like it pops out of the sound and could be in the room with you. So I describe this as being a bit on the "darker" side of neutral. So that immediate impression was that, yeah, these are unlikely to measure as neutral speakers. I wouldn't go so far as to say they are in the Klipsch category, but I did hear a sort of similar sculpting of the sound.

But here's the thing: then I leaned backwards, in to the back seat of the sofa. As I did so, the sound changed and snapped in to focus, brightening, sounding more coherent, but also losing richness. There was now a greater sense of vividness, snap and "realism" to drums, wood blocks, vocals etc. The bass warmth cleared up somewhat. This was a significantly different presentation! So I started experimenting with different listening positions - closer, further, moving side to side, standing up, moving off axis etc.

For imaging, the image shifted fairly quickly to one speaker as I moved off axis. The tonal balance shifted a bit, but less so. Standing up the sound significantly "lightened" in tone, the timbre gaining a bit more edge and vividness, also sounding a bit leaner. (I actually somewhat liked that tone when standing).
Way off axis, the speakers still sounded nice, though things really snapped in in the centre listening position.

This was interesting because most of my experience with coaxially mounted drivers is that they have been very tolerant of off axis listening. But I suppose this is because the ones I've heard most - e.g. the KEF speakers and my Thiels, had the tweeters mounted with much smaller drivers. In the case of my Thiel 2.7s (and the bigger 3.7s I owned), Thiel had gone to lengths to reduce the surrounding mid driver's influence on the tweeter - the mid driver surrounding the tweeter is actually flat (corrugated, actually). I have been constantly amazed at how smooth and regular the sound is from the Thiels, whether I'm closer or further to them, listening off axis, from just inside or outside the room, the general sound character remains very consistent. That's also true of my Joseph speakers. But, man, the SP10s really were sensitive to listener position! If I recall correctly, it is due to the much larger 10" driver surrounding the tweeter, which I think AJ has said act as something of a wave guide. If so, that would help explain what I was experiencing.

Since the SP10s really changed character with listening distance (at least in that room) I tried to find the balance of "rich/warm" but still vivid enough in the highs to not sound obviously rolled off, hence some excitement. I was probably about 9 to 10ish feet or so at this point.

One thing I found is that generally speaking I found the sound to remain somewhat "speakerly." By that I mean, while they did excellent, vivid point-source imaging, TONALLY the speakers didn't totally "disappear" as apparent sound sources - there was a sort of boxy-sounding warmth I was often aware of, with those slightly exaggerated upper mid peak sort of perched on top, that reminded me "I'm hearing the sound from a speaker." I can't say that whether this was a resonance from the speaker, or due to it's particular frequency response design, or if (and I think this might be likely) the way the bass frequencies were interacting with this particular room. This is one reason why I view this as a finicky speaker.

The SP10s did bass! Subjectively with tracks that had low bass they sounded deep and really room filling. However, in this room I felt really low bass, e.g. from some stand up bass and a pop track with low synth/guitar bass, there was a bit too much "bloom." On the other hand, a track I often play, "Missing" by Everything But The Girl, has a bass line that is tough for many speakers to get right - it's a very round sounding pulsing bass line that can sound very ill-defined
on lots of speakers. It sounded really well controlled, dead center in the soundstage not blurring, and tight on the SP10s, so I could hear the distinct articulation from the bass player. The fact the SP10 could sound impressively tight with some bass, but overwarm with other stuff, made me think there was possibly some room interactions not favoring this speaker in the lower regions. I was not able to get a perfect balance in this regard - if I was close enough so the sound filled out, giving warmth to sax, vocals etc the bass could be too rich, if I moved to far back, I found the sound brightened and leaned out more than I cared for.

How about the sense of dynamics? From what I heard, very good but not top tier. I think I may have been expecting a bit too much, for some reason I thought this speaker might combine something more like the dynamic life I hear from horn speakers. But it wasn't really. They sounded fun and engaging and relatively propulsive in how they combined "feel it in the whole room" bass response with those vivid upper frequencies. But when I listened for how things like horns, wood blocks, bongos etc sounded, they didn't have that "holy cow" sense of solidity and propulsion that makes me think "THAT sounds like a wood block being played right in front of me." (I DID get those type of impressions from, for instance, the Klipsche La Scalas my friend had, as well as some other horn based speakers I've heard). I actually think my Thiels give a better impression of a solid/dense object popping out in to the room than what I heard from the SP10s.
(And the Devore O/96 as well).

One of the things that stuck in my mind was hearing Led Zeppelin on the SP10s. Kashmir in this case. The sound was generally punchy and fairly vivid. But Kashmir as any Zep listener would know, doesn't actually have much low bass. It's a pretty lean recording in that regard, which is kind of good to see how a speaker handles this - the recording doesn't have much bass to speak of, but Bonham is bashing away on those drums so a speaker better translate that energy! The SP10s did so quite well. So, yeah, they rock.

But I also heard the same Zep track (and others) on the B&W 803 D4 speakers. And there was definitely a contrast in the presentations. I ultimately find the B&W sound a bit too sculpted for my taste, that rising top end etc. However, damn, they HAVE sort of perfected "that" sound, and while they may not have chosen a perfectly flat frequency response, they have otherwise gone to fairly heroic methods in the design of their drivers/enclosure, emphasis on dynamics etc.
And it shows. Zeppelin on the B&Ws had an utter, open peering-in-to-the-studio sense of clarity from top to bottom. Not a jot of blur or darkness, whether I was focusing on the guitar, super vivid vocals, sparkling clean cymbals, or the tight holographically placed bass and kick drums. The SP10s did not have this type of 'holy cow' sense of clarity and control from top to bottom. (I also find my Thiels better in that regard). The SP10s had a "sweeter" more laid back sound, even WITH their slight peak in the lower treble. Can I see someone preferring the sound of the the SP10s, which can be seen as a very nice combination of richness with some vividness, but not overbearing or "analytical" in the old school parlance. The SP10s were generally more relaxing to listen to than the always-on-the-edge-of-my-seat vivid sound from the B&Ws.

Still, by the end of my listening session with the SP10s I was starting to feel a little ear fatigue! It could be that my ears are in a more sensitive phase (I sometimes get ear sensitivity), but I do think I was reacting somewhat to that slightly peaky sounding response, even if not overtly "bright" sounding to my ears, over time.

So, that's about all I have on these things. It wasn't a long speaker audition. Nor nearly as extensive as the ones I do for a speaker that I seem to really like (where I will play with speaker positioning in a room, not just my listening position, to get to the bottom of things).

To sum up: I found the SP10s to be something of a chameleon depending on where I sat. Closer they sounded rich and warm in the upper bass down with a nice lower highs sparkle but with the highs seemingly rolled off above the attack of drum cymbals etc. Further back they snapped in as more vivid, exciting speakers, they disappeared more, though lost a bit of richness and sounded more "monitor like." But never seemingly fully neutral to my ears.

I can imagine that under the right circumstances I'd like these speakers more, if the set up was dialed in just so. And the flip side of how finicky they are can be that different listeners may be able to realize just the type of presentation they want - from vivid and monitor-like to bigger, richer, smoother and more "comfy" sounding with some attractive sparkle.

Thanks, prof, for that very detailed account of what you heard with the Sourcepont 10s. Nothing like more food for thought. 

All the best,
Nonoise

Happy to, nonoise.

From my relatively brief audition in answer to the question "Are these the Giant Killers some hope them to be?" I'd say well...yes and no.

No in the sense that I wasn't thinking 'wow, that's spectacular sound' like I have from any number of high end speakers.  As I wrote, they didn't do that transition in to sounding more like the real thing that will make me sit up and take notice.  They sounded a bit more studio-monitor "just play the recording" delineating the recorded imaging in a point-source fashion.

So even when I came home to listen to my Thiels again afterward (or thinking back to the B&Ws) I was struck with the sense "yeah, you still kind of get what you pay for, at least in some speakers."  So I don't really see these as giant killers in that respect.

But I think one could say "yes" insofar as what you get at their price point. They provide very accurate imaging, quite vivid sound, a fairly large scale of sound (not as big as the Devore O/96), lots of bass and dynamics, so really quite close to a complete package as far as playing back all manner of music in a compelling manner.

But there wasn't the organic realism of a Harbeth or BBC school speaker for voices, nor the absolute sense of purity and clarity I hear from, say, my Joseph Speakers, nor the utter disappearing-as-sound-sources I hear from various other high end speakers.

But, still, the SP10s did have an attractive sound that did make me want to keep listening longer than a lot of other high end speakers.  (Still wondering about fatigue over time from the highs, though).

That said...my Joseph Dealer will be getting in the SP10s at some point so I'll have another chance to hear them I think.  Perhaps in another showroom I'll find them more impressive.

@prof Thanks for the followup. I and (I'm sure) others here would like to know how your second listening sessions goes as it will most likely have different gear and room boundaries to consider. 

What you said about positioning mirrors what Stever McCormack said: it's kind of chameleon like in how it can sound depending on how they're aimed. In the Steve Huff video review he wrote them off until he tried some different gear and then he heard what they're capable of, and kept them. 

I'm perfectly fine with their imposing looks as they're practically the same size as my JBL 4319 "monitors" and love the big, effortless sound they can put out, at most volumes. 

Sounds like I'm convincing myself, again. An old habit I'm very familiar with.😄

All the best,
Nonoise

I actually had the vibe that the SP10s might be a speaker I’d like to own...along with ones I already own. In fact that was one motivation for listening to them, not out of dissatisfaction with my speakers (Thiel 2.7 and Joseph Audio Perspectives) but, because I like having different sounds available. Among the many speakers I’ve auditioned the SP10s had a promise of being a sound I might quite like as a second system. I wondered how they would sound with my CJ Premier 12 tube monoblocks. The main thing that would give me pause is the bass response I heard from the SP10s, at least in that room, really did border on being able to overwhelm the room. My sense is they will appreciate the grip of a solid state amp. But...who knows? (One of my favorite amps/speaker combos was my old Eico HF 81 14W tube amp with my MBL 121 Radialstrahlers!)

Once I saw them in person I pretty much wrote them off as a permanent speaker for my use.  In my room they would not fit well aesthetically, so they would definitely be a "put them in to the system sometimes" kind of thing. 

Prof- Thanks for the well considered review of the SP10. 
I am impressed it seemed they did well even in comparison with the 22k B&W 803 D4. I would guess with sorting out the synergy and room interactions the SP 10 really could show good value at the 3700 price point. 
Cheers,

RW
 

The stands that may work with this speaker is the RAB Audio ProRak SDM100 Which has a 14" by 18" top plate

Steve Huff has also reviewed these speakers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZsWlENanJY

Huff didn’t like them until he hooked up 20k worth of Pass Labs gear to them. Kinda funny. 

Nothing new here. They used to hook up ELAC speakers to amps 50 (fifty) times their price back then

@nonoise you are kind a being like Millercarbon was with the Raven amps....

@juanmanuelfangioii , back to your old self with the same, tired comparison, eh?

If you’ve read through this thread you’d see that I’m on the fence about this but not tolerant with the overboard criticisms from those who haven’t even heard them yet.

As for the videos I’ve linked to, that’s for convenience’s sake for others here. You know, like people do for each other in a community.

As for mofojo, he's a credit for whatever gene pool he crawled out of. To sound like he's half in the bag on Christmas Eve is sad.

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise ,

Came from pretty good gene stock. Grandmother just died at 106. Excuse me for having some drinks on Christmas Eve although I’m only about 5 in. Havin a few more now puss cakes 🎂. 

@mofojo , Sorry to hear about your grandmother. She lived a long and full life. Why hide behind her as an excuse for being such a putz when you've been like this before, drinking or not?

@nonoise Merry Christmas. and WAHHHHHHHHHHH!

So I am one of the "influenced" who bought a pair of the SB10s.  They are for a secondary system which is driven by an Allnic T2000 Integrated with KT170s.  I had some other speakers that sold faster than anticipated and needed something to fill the spot without breaking the bank.

I had demoed at my local dealer a number of Klipsch and Harbeth speakers and none of them had the sound that I was looking for.  I am not a listener who uses Diana Krall and Melody Gardot as my ultimate test tracks and I don't just sit in a single spot 8.36 feet away both speakers for hours on end with my eyes closed.))

The dealer was powering the SP10s with a Line Magnetic 845IA and I thought they sounded fuller than the Forte IVs, with a very clear soundstage and pinpoint imaging.  The bass was actually a little lacking for my taste,  They were about six feet from the wall and when we moved them closer to the front wall the bass really picked up.  The build quality was also better than expected.

It would be interesting to try them with a high power class D integrated amp like a Michi or T+A PA1100E, but for now they are serving their purpose.  

I think the comments from @prof are accurate.  I am about a week in and the highs are not causing any issue (which I have had from Golden Ears as an example).  They are sitting on Wharfdale stands while waiting for the MoFi stands to arrive.

Everyone, please enjoy Christmas or whatever you celebrate with your friends and family.  In my case it is dogs - while watching Raphie in a Christmas Story.  Have to love the "Old Man."

as more reviews, written and online, emerge from various sources over the past few weeks, i think a reasonable picture of what these speakers are is emerging

while i haven’t heard them myself yet (not a priority for me personally), i would summarize as follows

-- more traditional look, big box, wide-ish baffles, need decent stands, imposing in a room (to me it is interesting given the concentric drivers, the speaker may need to be raised up more than usual - to compared to say a pair of harbeths with higher mounted tweeter - for correct height and treble dispersion)

-- good to very good, full-ish bass response, somewhat lively forward mid/lower treble, but rolled off high treble with a ’big speaker’ sonic presentation not to be mistaken with more typical standmount bookshelf models - as such, can lead to some fatigue if not well mated to suited upstream components

-- placement and setup quite important (isn’t it always?!) to get proper degree of room boundary interaction, which in turn affects perceived bass response and overall tonal balance of the speaker... i suspect without proper stands issued that quite a few users don’t have the speakers at the proper height

-- excellent driver integration or coherence up and down the frequency range, to be expected with well designed custom drivers, crossover and concentricity, core strengths of andrew jones’ work coupled with good efficiency/easy impedance and thus can be driven by many/most real world amps

-- wide baffle and room interaction makes it pretty obvious the speakers sound has some noticeable ’boxy’ characteristics, which may or may not be an impediment, depending on what the listener has otherwise experienced

-- overall good to very good performance for the $$

@jjss49  +1  

I just made an enquiry for these in UK.

£4500!   That’s $5440!!!!!!   That’s $1741 more than the Crutchfield price.    
 

If this was a US made product I could understand, but they’re coming from China.   This is the very reason I never step foot in UK dealers.   Lazy, greedy dreamers.

@singintheblues VAT?

$3699 = £3064.   So if it were VAT @ 20%, that’s £3677

Still £823 or $992 to account for.

UK dealers want money for nothing.

@singintheblues that’s sadly the case with a lot of electronics, Ironically, the US is often cheaper, economies of scale.

Little comfort: a box of strawberry they grow 10 miles from me cost $2 more here than 2,500 miles away in the last village in New Hampshire

One big factor with this speaker was keeping the cost down by using AJ's connections that he's had for the last 20 years in China. One is used to the VAT over the pond but a dealer markup of almost $1000 is out of bounds. 

Here's another video from a Canadian dealer and their take on the Sourcepoint 10:

All the best,
Nonoise