Need to learn about Audio Research


Still exploring amps and preamps to go with my Magnepan 3.7i. 
I've always heard about Audio Research being a great match, but I'm not familiar with the brand at all.
I'll need to shop the used market since the new gear is way out of my price range. 

I am looking for a high power (100wpc +) amp and a preamp that has remote control. I'd like the preamp to be tube, and the amp could be either solid state or tube.
I don't know at what point in the model lineup remote control was added, but it appears most of the older gear did not have a remote. 

Any AR experts here?

traudio

 

My history with ARC dates back to 1973, when I got one of the systems @whart referred to above: a pair of Magneplanar Tympani T-I’s bi-amped with Dual 75 and Dual 51 power amps, an SP-3 pre-amp in front (I now own a pair of the Tympani T-IVa’s, a magnificent loudspeaker. But it requires a huge room, which I currently don’t have, so they’re boxed up).

That was obviously a long time ago, and modern ARC electronics are very different from the 70’s stuff. Some people have no problems with their pieces of ARC, others do. If you go with ARC, buy from a local authorized dealer, one with at least some experience with the company’s products. Owning ARC can be like owning an Italian sports car.wink ARC amps are designed with no fuses in the circuits, so when a tube blows (not uncommon in tube amps), it takes with it a "sacrificial" resistor. That means a trip to the dealer (or ARC), unless you are handy with a soldering gun.

How loud do you listen, and how big is your room? One way to go is to get a tube pre-amp and a solid state power amp. You’ve probably heard Maggies benefit from a high current amp, and the MG3.7i is no exception. A fair number of people have found happiness with the Sanders Magtech amp mated with their Maggies.

If you add a pair of subs to the 3.7's, that will greatly reduce the amount of power you need for the Maggies, and increase their sound quality (if the subs are good enough). Removing the bottom octave (20Hz-40Hz) from the speakers and their power amp cuts the power needs in half!

 

052rc
I didn't audition this pair specifically, but I've heard them in the past and have always wanted a pair. 

A big problem is to visit a "real" dealer is at least 2.5hrs away. It makes it hard to audition or borrow equipment. 

This is why I mostly rely on reviews and forums. 

@sns Great point about heat being the enemy of reliability. Not only that, but also the fact that the more heat an amp gives off, the quicker the room heats up. In certain climates that is very undesirable.

Living in S.California, I do not want a heat engine in my listening room.

This is no way to buy audio equipment. If you're looking to fail and be unhappy with your system, this is a good way to do it. You have a pair of Magnepan 3.7's. Look at the recommendations you're getting. All are completely different and everyone knows they're right. Its very easy to go out and buy good components. The problem is you can buy all good components but the system can sound like crap because they don't work well together. The 3.7's are not forgiving speakers to work with. You can't rely on other peoples opinions. If you happen to get it right, it will be completely accidental. 

The only way to move forward that makes any sense is to go back to when you auditioned your speakers. What kind of electronics were they using, and what makes you want to buy something different? You need to have some type of reference before you start. And if this was an impulse purchase, you may want to cut your losses now and just get a speaker that's more forgiving to work with. 

My experience pretty much mirrors @whart  I well remember hearing the big Maggies with all ARC setups, one of my early references for high end sound, this in 1970's. I only owned a single ARC piece, this SP9MkIII, very disappointing, one of their 'bleached' out offerings.

 

I too migrated towards horns and SET amps, this gradual move over a number of decades and experience with a variety of amp topologies. I don't doubt you'd find some more recent ARC offerings to match well with the Maggies, my issue is the more powerful the tube amp the greater chance for reliability issues and expensive repairs due to added complexity. High power tube amps put out a lot of heat, heat is the enemy of reliability.

I have an SP6 preamp and a D75 amp. That combination will work and sound excellent with Magneplanars. IMO it will have more of the tube "goodness" than later Audio Research gear.

I used to own one of the ARC amps from what many consider the 'golden age' of ARC...the mid to late 80's. This amp was the ARC D70Mk2..and it was one of the best sounding amps I have ever heard. Today, this amp would still be competitive with some of the best on the market. BUT...and here's the thing, it was as noted above, not that easy to work on if it had an issue, and more importantly, it had a criminal protocol if one had to bias the tubes. ( which was required every so often!) 

Criminal as to the potential risk for electrocution! 

Today's ARC's are far superior ( but not necessarily in SQ), but they come at a cost.

I have owned one or more Audio Research components for over forty years. Never needing any adjustments or repair. Over time as I better understood what music really sounds like and more able to afford top notch equipment moved to all Audio Research. You can see my system under my user ID. Audio Research produces some of the best, most reliable, audiophile equipment in the business and has been a trusted name for fifty years. 

Originally, the two companies marketed together. This was in the era -early ’70s- when the first generation of "high end" equipment was being made. (I distinguish that era- which included JG Holt’s Stereophile, erratically published out of Elwyn, Pa. and the emergence of The Absolute Sound and Harry Pearson as two of the leading proponents of the subjective school of listening/evaluation, from what I label as the (earlier) golden era--Saul Marantz tube gear before he sold to Superscope, KLH 9s (double pairs), Quad 57s (double pairs eventually using Decca Ribbons and a Hartley woofer), old Bozak ConcertMasters, early Fisher and HH Scott tube gear, McIntosh tube gear, etc.)

I was an early proponent of ARC and owned their gear starting in 1975, after having heard and compared it to other high end equipment in 1973-75. The marriage of the two was, to some degree for marketing purposes--ARC was a Magnepan distributor in the early days. It was common to see the big Tympani (IU [?]), a very large multi-panel array demonstrated with ARC tube gear and often, ARC dealers carried Magnepan.

Both companies seem to have soldiered on through the years, despite considerable changes in the marketplace. ARC was one of the few to promote tube amplification in an era focused on high power solid state amps and specification battles over things like "transient intermodulation distortion" and "damping factor" and "slew rate" when the typical ARC demo consisted of playing a record and letting you hear what their gear could do. It usually impressed in its sheer musicality at the time when other systems, particularly solid state, had an electronic "glaze" and did not sound as convincingly real.

I have an old "sell sheet" from one of my first ARC systems, circa 1975, that included both ARC and Magnepan product listings and prices. I seem to recall bi- and tri-amplification but only remember the really big tube amps coming from ARC a bit later. Their earlier efforts, after total redo/mods of Dynaco equipment, were typically 60-75 watt stereo basic amps. (I’m working from memory here).

As mentioned, the market has changed considerably since then. There are a lot of different tube offerings, with different circuit configurations and "tube audio" became more than the tiny niche of hold outs and audio outlaws to become a recognized thing, along with greater power.

I stopped on the ARC path, not because of any problem or issue with the company (though the sound of the products changed over the years, from tubey warmth, to a period of "bleached" sound, to the era of the Reference series); I went in the direction of extremely high efficiency horns and low powered SETs.

Magnepans are power hogs. At least the bigger older ones were. And that means a pretty powerful tube amp. I’m not going to pretend to be current on either company’s offerings because I’m not. But I think I’ve given you a capsule history of their origins and early relationship having been there at the time.

PS: not to be a pedant, but Audio Research used to be referred to as ARC because the first company to offer the "acoustic suspension" speaker and the original suspension turntable, headed by Edgar Villchur, was known as "AR." Today, I’m not sure that brand is still active. Good luck and happy hunting, there are a lot of people on this board with experience in both ARC and Magneplanar.

deep_333
Lad? I'm in my 60's. cheeky
I've been at this audio game since I was 15, but had no experience with ARC.
bojack
I did some more research and I feel you are right. I saw all the crap you have to go through to just bias tubes. What a horror show! I've built tube amps and have electronics knowledge, but I'd never want to attempt doing that. 
So yeah, maybe scratch ARC off the list?
Post removed 

The late Roger Modjeski (of Music Reference & Beveridge fame) started out as a tech before either of those companies existed.  He said he always hated working on ARC gear.  It was always way over engineered and difficult to work on.  YMMV, but I think there are probably plenty of great combinations to go with Maggie speakers.  What is your budget for amp & pre?

Traudio,

ARC is indeed one of the big names in hi-end gear. If you have a trusted tech who has experience in repairing ARC gear, I say go for it. However, if you don't, you will likely be waiting a long time for possible repairs (if needed), and you'll pay through the nose for ARC to do them. I would honestly go in a different direction...maybe Rogue, Raven, or Quicksilver. A great combo, btw, would be the Quicksilver line stage and the 100W Rogue amp. Plenty of muscle, reliable, and won't cost a fortune to repair if ever needed. 

My advice with ARC is to get advice about specific components.  IMHO the sound has change a great deal over the years, and therefore what matches well with a specific speaker may be very much model/year dependent.

 

Preamp: Schiit Freya+ (tube) or Schiit Kara ((SS)..comes with remote control

https://www.schiit.com/products/freya-f

Power amp: Schiit Tyr monoblocks (SS, 350 watts @ 4 ohms) or Schiit Wotan (SS, 400 watts @ 4 ohms)

https://www.schiit.com/products/tyr

https://www.schiit.com/products/wotan

Schiit is a greater match than Audio Research for Magnepans and affordable for dudes with delicate wallets.

I’ve always heard about Audio Research being a great match, but I’m not familiar with the brand at all.

I’ll need to shop the used market since the new gear is way out of my price range.