@gammastrep if you can afford moving the amps close to the speakers the balanced interconnects from the preamp or source are not expensive, you don't need to go with special balanced cables, if you're equipment is balanced and differential take advantage of that.
In some cases geometry (or the wife) works against us and you can't separate in which case then go with long speaker cables.
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but then again a long run of preamp to amp cables would be pretty pricy as well. Not true. I am going to run long interconnects (maybe 20-30 feet) and I do not expect to spend too much, somewhere from $100 - $500. I also do not expect to suffer in sound quality with the lower cost interconnects. I tested this scenario out with some Benchmark gear (which supports the balanced AES48 standard) and I could not tell a difference between expensive Audience Au24 interconnects and cheap Bryston XLR (Canare?) interconnects.
http://www.aes.org/publications/standards/search.cfm?docID=44
https://www.takefiveaudio.com/ Running long speaker cables has been something I was told by a few manufacturers and dealers to avoid. I will get a high end short speaker cable and a much lower cost XLR interconnect between the preamp and amp. |
Interesting, that the description section below, states it is 35 ft. |
The OP needs a pair of 25 foot cables. That is a 26 foot roll and the last one they have. |
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I was in a similar situation requiring long speaker cables - give grannyring at this site a shout - he can fab some excellent 10ga cables for you with excellent performance............I am very happy with their performance |
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Thank you everyone for for the info and replies. I agree with many, and have mixed feelings about others. Yes short is great agreed, and I just spent a good ampunt this past spring for 10 foot of a high end brand of wire. No, the poer amp can'y ( easily ), be moved. I'd have to pay to have a new outlet installed. I'm not sure about long runs of cables from the preamp either, but I do have balanced outputs, but then again a long run of preamp to amp cables would be pretty pricy as well.
Roger Sanders actually says that the coax cables actually are a good match for a panel type for speaker.
Wire is funny stuff. You see so many ads for expensive wire, all with what they call the "best" method of construction. Does anyone know for sure. It's all up to each persons ears.
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I also need 22 and 25 ft. lengths due to domestic equipment placement, and thoroughly enjoy AntiCables. They were one of the only affordable solutions for me. I won't pretend that I know if they'll work in your situation and with your speakers, but here are the tech specs for your perusal. I believe the Level 3.1 would be the choice. (They are referenced as Level 3 on the spec page). http://anticables.com/technical |
In my experience running long speaker cables often is not a good idea. Think about how much a set of Sound Labs set you back, and the simple fact that they are one of the most resolving loudspeakers on the planet. Running long cables often results in a noticeable loss of impact and resolution! 20 to 25 feet is going to have an effect and you won't be able to solve it by throwing money at the cables. In all the cases where I've seen speaker cables longer than 10 feet, placing the amps right by the speakers and running a balanced line to the amp has resulted in greater definition across the spectrum.
The problem here is no speaker cable is a perfect match for any loudspeaker and the longer you make the cable the worse this problem becomes.
Now you don't need balanced equipment to do this- you simply need a set of line driving transformers at the preamp and line receive transformers at the amp. Jensen makes excellent transformers for this specific purpose. You run single-ended to the transformers, run a long balanced line between the transformers, then convert back to single-ended.
Now if any of your equipment is balanced, you may not need one or both pair of transformers. We built our balanced preamps specifically so we could run long interconnect cables without coloration or losses- in my house I was running 28 feet of Fulton speaker cables; when I went to balanced operation and ran 6 foot speaker cables instead there was an instant improvement in clarity- IOW musicality and neutrality.
Note that most high end audio equipment (sources and preamps in particular) do not support the balanced line standard. This means they can't drive long cables and the cable you use might sound different; if everything supports the standard then the cables will be transparent. If in doubt use the transformers. They are inexpensive relative to the cost of decent speaker cables!
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IMO,
Always make speaker cables same length even if one speaker is closer.
Make them longer than you need now, give yourself some 'extra' leeway for unanticipated relocation.
After this and that, and reading theory ...., I decided multi-strand, small diameter, each strand insulated, all in insulated jacket makes most sense to me. Sound like Cat 5 cable?
I made my own long speaker wires, easily and inexpensively. Just buy roll of factory made cat 5, cut equal lengths, twist them, make good connectors each end.
Twist. First time I twisted a long run it was hard. Then I figured out, twist a few feet, tape there, twist other direction a few feet, tape there, repeat. Use colored tape, I have 3 sets, various lengths, different color tape. Sometimes I run 2 systems, SS and Tubes, to test, and to let others hear the difference.
Same music, CD, LP, Reel to Reel tape, i.e. Sgt. Peppers. Everyone picks tubes over SS. Everyone picks LP over CD. Everyone picks Reel to Reel tape over LP.
Note: noise INCREASES as you go from CD to LP, and INCREASES from LP to TAPE, but, when the music starts, preferences go as I described.
It won't cost you much to make a 25-30 ft pair of twisted cat 5. Then, if you try expensive cables (that you can return), you can compare.
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@almarg...thanks, (again) for your kind words.
I run 15 feet of Canare 4S11 per speaker, but I use (1) stick for each of the positive and negative legs per speaker.
Normally the 4S11 has (4) 14 gauge conductors per stick which would be for the positive AND negative leg for each speaker. (2) red and (2) white which twisted together gives you an 11 gauge wire. I tie all (4) conductors together for a ~8 gauge wire. This then feeds ONLY the positive (or negative) leg of the speaker. So you would need (4) total sticks for a stereo pair of speakers. I find this keeps almost all (or any) interference at bay. I know some people shotgun differently, but this works better for me.
I tried using the 4S11 in the conventional way and had great success. Once I tried my "shotgunned" way, the speakers opened up with an increase in speed and bass response and control. Of course, this is using my equipment and my room, but always with electrostatic speakers, (currently Martin Logan CLSIIA and a completely redone and modified and updated pair of Acoustat 2+2’s which are amazing). I’ve owned several pair of Soundlabs and they are indeed wonderful speakers.
I ALWAYS caution people when using/trying this cable to give it at least 200 hours of burn-in. That’s what Canare advises, but IMHO, they really need around 500 hours. I know that seems like a lot, but the outcome is tremendous. |
KnuKonceptz Kord Speaker Wire Ultra Flex Blue OFC 10 Gauge Cable 25' True AWG on the bay. $50 shipped for what you declare is needed. |
Driving electrostatic speakers with long runs of speaker cable makes inductance especially critical, because in contrast to dynamic speakers the impedance of electrostatic speakers reaches very low values in the upper treble region. While the impedance presented by inductance ("inductive reactance") increases as frequency increases, while also being proportional to length. And if the goal is accurate transmission of the signal inductive reactance should be kept to a small fraction of the impedance of the speaker at 20 kHz, which I suspect is probably no more than about 2 ohms in the case of your speakers, and may very well be significantly less than that.
However some cables achieve low inductance at the expense of having high capacitance, which is also proportional to length and would be undesirable because that can cause problems for solid state amplifiers which use feedback (as I assume yours does, based on its specs).
I always have great respect for Mofimadness’ recommendations, which I know are based on an enormous wealth of experience. And I found indications that the inductance of the Canare 4S11 cable he recommended is about 120 uH (microHenries) per foot (which would mean an inductive reactance of only about 0.4 ohms at 20 kHz for a 25 foot run, non-shotgunned); capacitance is spec’d as 45 pf/foot; and resistance is equivalent to 11 gauge. Those are excellent numbers for your application. In fact I suspect that a single run would do the trick, rather than a shotgun pair being necessary, in part because the impedance of the speaker is probably very high at bass and mid-bass frequencies. (Shotgunning would cut resistance and inductance in half, but would double capacitance).
I would give much less weight to recommendations by others that are not based on experience with electrostatic speakers, and/or are for cables for which those basic electrical parameters are not specified or known.
Good luck. Regards,
-- Al
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You don’t need twisted cables. I use 25 foot speaker cables that go under the floor through the basement and then back up to the speakers. They are not twisted and it is fine. My system is dead quiet. I have been using these cables for 10+ years |
Gonna want something twisted. I use a 500 ft roll of in wall cable for all my needs . Works as well as any snake oil.
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i too use long speakers cables and over the years three brands stand out as having more long speaker cables available used on audiogon or usaudiomart. Audioquest, MIT and Transparent.
It’s worth waiting for something good since it’s the last link till it gets to speaker and yours are good.
Best wishes. |
Move the power amps to the speakers.
Use long balanced interconnects.
Use short(er) speaker cables. (I like Canare 4s11.) |
Bulk Audioquest Type 8...great low noise speaker cable. |
Neotech NES speaker cable. 3004/3003/3002/3001 Buy the best you can afford for the lengths needed. |
I would stick with the coaxial. Go on eBay and search for OCOS cable. I have used it in the past for long runs. Not expensive either.
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