My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
Jetter--talk about WHO (YOU) is craving attention with your negative and completely useless posts devoid of any analysis of audio gear. After dguitarnut criticized me, he turned around and gave interesting accounts of his experience, and I thanked him for that. Progress in audio is not about crapping on other people, but sharing informed knowledge and experience, none of which I have seen from you. Don't bother to post unless you have something worthwhile about equipment to contribute. As for the Element, I would email WC or anyone else about my findings. You don't deserve to be a beneficiary of my hard work that goes into my evaluations, unless you change your attitude. I don't care about what YOU think, so over and out to you! |
dguitarnut, There is some delicious humor and truth in your comment that this most popular thread has the greatest exposure of an unknown product. WC has created a journey to SOTA, which this product (Element) is likely to be. Actually we should give thanks to Guido for getting this product the attention it deserves. Star Trek was popular because it voyaged to the frontiers of the unknown. Today, William Shatner is as popular as ever, well deserved. Imagine if WC renamed this thread, "The Star Trek Amplifier Quest," he would become the next Shatner of audio! |
One day, i might start a thread on preamplifiers. I wish i could do speakers, but they are too much to deal with and they are a pain to sell. I commend those dealers that have the ability to live off of selling mainly speakers. If i were to do this for a living some day, i would have a website and a store with only select preamplifiers and a massive amount of power amplifiers from all budgets. I feel like amplifiers are the easiest component to sell when you are done with it. There is always someone who needs an amplifier, but not everyone needs a preamp. Some use bluray players and dacs as preamps and some use processors as preamps such as the mx160. Amplifiers have been my passion and although lately i have not had my hands on any killer amps, i know it is a matter of time before i do. Here are my next moves: i will be comparing the xxxxx mono blocks to everything i can think of when they are available in November. I may borrow a pair of Rowland 925s and a pair of 900u monos. That is the one shoot out that i am dying to hear. That said, there is one thing i don't want to fail to tell you all: Sometimes the matching preamp is a must with some amplifiers. I felt that the luxman 900u always sounded amazing with its 900u preamp and i also felt that the audio research line had the most synergy together as well. I was just recently told to try Shindo preamps and so let's see where that idea goes. The Ref10 is becoming the second component i have held on to the longest (second to the simaudio 860). I really can not think of any other preamp i rather own. I think only the successor could best it. |
Jetter, Better heed the words of the almighty VIBER "You don't deserve to be a beneficiary of my hard work that goes into my evaluations" Here is his evaluation of all DAG Amps...I'm paraphrasing here: I met Dan back in the stone age. I know the sound that Dan likes based on my one run-in with him. All the Amps he designed at Krell and his Own DAG Line sound the same so I dont need to actually hear one to evaluate them. A Dealer I know said XXXXX About them...so my Opinion is solely based on ZERO Auditions but I know what I am talking about and dont dare tell me otherwise. WC has no need to listen to any DAG Products because they are inferior to my magnificent Bryston gear. I spout opinions endlessly based on Reviews I read in Magazines without actually purchasing or auditioning anything. Unlike all the other products I bring up here based on Reviews only I have no need to read any reviews on DAG Products because of the extensive expertise I have already mentioned....and I KNOW Dan...don't forget that!!! His Momentum 300's must sound exactly the same as the 400's with more watts....Its Dan...its all the same. Even thou the majority of owners of them define them as "Sweet"...thats exactly the opposite opinion I have of them based on ZERO experience. I know Dan...they cant be Sweet sounding. They are all show and No-Go. Your paying 60K for the Captain Nemo design. OZ has spoken.... And btw Viber.....I manage multiple 7 figures every day in the stock market for myself and others...for decades now. Ive NEVER heard anybody use the term "Flipping" in 30 years concerning stocks. Its called TRADING. Funny how you try to impose YOUR understanding of certain terminology as the almighty gospel on others. The only thing MUNDANE in this thread have been your Shakespearean long rants. |
whitecamaross, I think down the road you will run the REF10 with top ARC monos. Like you said: synergy. My only reservation regarding a tube-amp purchase-- , as my friend in Boynton Beach says, ---is the massive heat from his BAT tube mono amps. No joke, and I quote, "Mike, when I listen to my tube set-up,I literally have to put on a pair of shorts and a tank top and turn the A/C all the way up. But it sounds so great!" He also has a solid state set-up which he mostly uses during the summer months. Natch! |
So I’m not going to lie, I feel like part of the reason why the thread has derailed and turned into arguments has been partially my fault. I have been unable to keep adding more interesting reviews because I simply can’t get my hands on gear of interest to me. This has opened the door for conversations that lead to what we all have read and seen. I wish I could keep the plane flying straight at 25,000 ft up in the air because it seems like auto pilot isn’t really working. My apologies here as I am finding that this show is in “intermission” while I prepare the next act. All I ask is that you all take a break, stretch, go to the bathroom and pretty soon return to your seats. ACT 2 will hopefully raise the bar for all of you. Lastly, I want to thank those of you who have sent me their own gear for review or shared their music with me. I appreciate the trust that some of you put in me without ever meeting me in person. It’s tough to find honest people these days. That’s mainly one reason why I decided to start this journey. One last thing, I’ve always kept all my positive AND NEGATIVE experiences with dealers to myself. It hasn’t always been perfect doing business and I’ve had rough situations that I have fortunately handled successfully but make no mistake there’s always someone looking to pull a fast one on you when money is involved. I’m not about any of that. I’m simply a hobbyist that enjoys this and shares it with people like you. Enjoy this intermission... then sit your @sses down and fasten your seatbelts. The captain will soon be in his chair to get this plane moving. |
WHITECAMAROSS...PLEASE! NO NEED TO APOLOGIZE!!! The thread is still good. We do not have the right to push you to spend money ( just to keep a thread going?!?!?!?). Please,go at your own pace and believe me, we will be there with you. Plus, it’s always good to rehash some of the stuff you had already. Although you are concentrating on super high end stuff, some people, like myself, are very much interested in stuff you covered waaaay back when. I already asked you many times about certain pieces and it is helping me formulate my next move. Thanks again for bringing us all together to talk some shop! |
RIAA, Thanks for comparing me to Shakespeare, but I have no literary gifts. I hope you have a lot more accuracy and caring concern in managing money for clients than you displayed in your "paraphrase" of my reviews. I HAVE put up money to own several Krell products over a few decades, and HAVE auditioned more recent ones for 60 day trials. You may not comprehend or admit the quality of my experience, but I am glad that others do. |
August 22nd...Viber says "I have never personally had any D'ag (not Krell) in my home for audition". Therefore you have no experience with ANY Dag gear so all your comments concerning DAG have no merit whatsoever. Nothing but blind speculation and he said/she said. You don't even bother enlightening yourself the slightest bit by reading up on them...and say the differences between the M300 + M400. Yet you back up OTHER products and comment on them based on nothing but reviews you have read. Why the Bias against DAG?? Do all Nelson Pass, Mark Levinson etc amps over the past decades all sound the same? NO. So why would all DAG amps sound the same? Your statements are based on your experience with KRELL products which by now are pretty irrelevant vs the current DAG lineup. If you actually do some research or auditioning of ANY product in question then I will respect your Opinion or anybody else's for that matter. Spreading false/inaccurate information....for whatever your motives are... is totally reckless and irresponsible. That's one reason you get more grief than anybody that's ever been involved in this thread. |
Viber6. Guido and Technodude have their own agenda and want to impose it in this thread no matter what..... plug 2nd rate gear that no one wants to hear about or cares about. They have been asked politely to stop and they come back with renewed intensity. If any of this stuff was revolutionary it would have made an impact already like Schitt did with their entry level gear and their Yggdrasil Dac. |
dguitarnut, I have no agenda since I am not in the audio business. I just share my knowledge and experience to any who may be interested, similar to the goals of WC even though we respect each other's different tastes. Guido does audio consulting professionally, but he is admired by all who interact with him. If he has any agenda, which I doubt, he has the respect to be entitled to it, since his mission is to inform and discuss edge-of-the-art stuff with a sophisticated, gentlemanly perspective. Techno_dude seems to be a music and equipment lover who just wants to share. I have not met either Guido or techno, but I say we three are NOT trying "to IMPOSE anything in this thread no matter what." Opinions are opinions, but you are DEAD WRONG to say what we discuss is "2nd rate gear that no one wants to hear about or cares about." To borrow from the correct logic of RIAA, you cannot say this gear is 2nd rate if you have not personally heard it. Then if "no one wants to hear about or cares about", how will they do the listening to prove that it is 2nd rate? And "if any of this stuff was revolutionary it would have made an impact already"--Guido has mentioned his preliminary listening experience with the Merrill Elements--few have yet heard it, so how could it make an "impact already?" Guido had the kindness to mention the Merrill's, so for you to accuse him of "plugging 2nd rate gear" shows a total lack of respect for his professional expertise and gentlemanly manner. You fumble on your ignorance and lack of logic and respect. Stick to your equipment comments, which are interesting. |
Ah yes dguitarnut, I shall never deny that I hold preferences for a small handful of brands that I am intimately familiar with.... Nor do I apologize for not being apologetic about it. While I will never assert that what I like is "the best", I will persist in asserting my right (be it Constitutional or otherwise) to outline my preferences, and the rationale behind it. On the other hand, my nightly sleep is not remotely disturbed if you, or anyone else, for that matters, prefers, defends, or otherwise listen to any other brand, model, class of operation, or even media.... And ignores anything I scribble on this or any other board, on any topic.... be it audio, high or low brass instruments, music interpretation and phylosophy, accessibility technologies, or... Pizza. It's just that, I dwelling in a liberal democracy last I checked, self-appointed zampolitiks of any vintage I cheerily ignore. Best regards, Guido
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RIAA, you are partially correct to say that since I have no personal auditioning experience with Dag, my comments about the Dag stuff have no merit. This is literally true, and I don't dispute that. But you would agree that designers have their own personal sound preferences and technical approaches, so it is generally true that there is a "house sound" of any particular designer, unless he has discovered something truly revolutionary that he radically rethinks his approach. Of course, there are at least subtle differences between 2 amps of any designer, but the basic house sound applies more often than not, subject to some differences. I have read reviews of Merrill's established products, but it appears that he has spent several years doing a major redesign with new generation devices, so we should keep an open mind about his new stuff which may or may not exhibit similar characteristics to his older stuff. He may still have his "house sound" but we won't know until we listen in our homes. Both of us could be partially correct. You might say there is no "house sound" and everything must be auditioned. I say that there is usually a degree of "house sound" in every product, and I agree that it should still be auditioned to be more informed. There is also the reality that nobody can audition everything, so reviews serve as a useful screening tool to find the few worthwhile products that should be auditioned, although there is the risk that something gets overlooked. That's life, unfortunately. However, to accuse me of "spreading false/inaccurate information"...and being "totally reckless and irresponsible" is wrong on your part. When I have personally heard something I say so, and otherwise I have said "according to reviews" this is what the reviewer said. I won't waste my time doing the due diligence on my exact language in these posts to provide confirmatory evidence, because I am not a lawyer hired at $500/hr to do this. My general perspective is clear enough. This is not a legal forum or trial trying to determine who is guilty or innocent, etc. Get back to sharing your long, valuable experience with equipment, the audio industry, etc. Most of us find this more important. |
Viber and Guido, +1 (Wow , me having a personal agenda ? Funniest thing ever wrote about me... ) Some takes this thread a bit too seriously. Remember this is a hobby, we share the best we can. We are here to have fun. WC has created a very popular thread wich makes us reunite and discuss on his and our audio experiences. We don’t agree about everything, so what , imagine how dull it would be if we would all have the same opinion about every piece of gear... |
I think it’s unfortunate that @whitecamaross thinks it’s his fault that the thread lost steam and not the person who has been posting 3x more than anyone else with 12 page long lectures. To be direct, I have loved reading the feedback of @whitecamaross but @viber6 has unfortunately made it a bit of a chore to continue reading and thus I have missed several updates. Like, what happened to the 2301? Whatever happened to getting a Pass 350.8? |
I haven’t miss anything, and I have read through it all... Isn’t there a way you can skip Viber’s posts if you find them so much unnerving ? When I read a magazine, if I´m negatively biased on some articles or writers, I do turn the page and skip the part I don’t like. I don’t go on a rampage asking the magazine owner to rethink the whole newspaper... |
@WC if you r interested in cheaper speaker and exceptional technical performance you have DALI Rubicon 8 https://www.stereophile.com/content/dali-rubicon-8-loudspeaker-measurements |
Hey guys, FYI---5th Annual Rocky Mountain International Audio Fest (RMAF) 2018 OCT 5-7...check out the reports and videos from this event. Wish I could have been there. I wouldn't be surprised if some gear from this audio show will be diagnosed in the future on this forum. Maybe whitecamaross is there now? Ya never know! |
I’m not there but I have mike from suncoast audio updating me on what he’s seeing and what’s catching his attention. They seem to have the Neoliths and Agostino progression Monos. I also keep seeing Magico being displayed with constellation Monos. The word on the street is that the new constellation amps are off the charts. I keep being told that I must listen to them. You all need to remember that the first version of their Amps really sucked according to some of my sources. This is WHY the used market was flooded with them at crash prices. That said, the new stuff they have such as the centaur 2, Taurus Monos... that’s supposed to be outstanding in all regards. Hmmm. I may have to go visit mike so I can listen to them. |
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@whitecamaross I heard the Vivid Giya G1 Spirit last year with Luxman c900u and Luxman monos. Last week I heard the new Vivid Kaya 90 speaker with NAD electronics. The sound of the Kaya was very similar to the G1. Fast, detailed, with good bass. I did not have the best seat to hear it as with the G1 Spirit but the Kaya 90 sound very similar. The Kaya will fit in many more rooms. You can keep it close to walls and the imaging is supposedly different (better?) than the Giya line due to changes in the drivers. |
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ricred1, I read on another thread that you like the ATI 523. This uses a Hypex 500 module. Could you elaborate further on the tonal characteristics/accuracy, etc.? Since WC prefers monos or stereos over multichannel versions, did you try the stereo 522? Any of the ATI's are attractive packages for sound quality and lighter weight based on my reading and talking to a dealer. |
If i were to build a home theater rig all over again, i would totally go with class d amps. for all my channels. That said, i have been told that it is NEVER EVER a good thing to mix solid state with class d amps. For example, to have class a amps running your front left and front right speakers and then a class d amp running the rest of your speakers. I heard the timing is different and class d are much faster sounding. I just would not buy a big 160 lb class ab amp anymore for home theater. I would do all class d. They run cooler, easier to place anywhere, they are quieter, and on and on and on. You aren’t exactly worrying about the damn soundstage width, depth, separation etc etc. That is WHY room correction exists for home theater. IMAX and many theaters are now doing class d for this reason. Class d is just perfect for this purpose. |
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viber6, "I read on another thread that you like the ATI 523. This uses a Hypex 500 module. Could you elaborate further on the tonal characteristics/accuracy, etc.?" I only use the ATI 523 to drive my center and rear speakers whenever I'm using my projector. So, I'm not doing critical listening with it; therefore I can't comment on tonal characteristics/accuracy. What I can say is the ATI 523 drives my center and rears speakers much better that the receiver it replaced. |
WC, " That said, i have been told that it is NEVER EVER a good thing to mix solid state with class d amps. For example, to have class a amps running your front left and front right speakers and then a class d amp running the rest of your speakers. I heard the timing is different and class d are much faster sounding." I currently use a Class AB amp(Jeff Rowland 625 S2) to drive my fronts and a Class D amplifier(ATI AT523NC) to drive my center and rears without any problems. |
Lets also remember that Whitecamaross' decisions to purchase equipment is based on his real world expectation to resell them at a later date. This seriously limits the uber high costs equipment from his list. Unless, he can "borrow" something. The Dag amps are in no way close to any Krell product that I have heard. They are simply outstanding. But WC's ability to resell them may seriously limit his purchase decision. Although, I think he would find a very short list of amps that can compete with them. At RMAF I heard many great systems. The rooms absolutely sucked, but, the music in most rooms was great. enjoy |
@whitecamaross I remember a while back you mentioning not to mix class A or A/B amps with class D amps in a HT setup so I called Classe Audio and spoke to a tech about it. He told me it would not be a problem in any way (timing/speed), in fact he said they do it all the time. I use a Simaudio 870a (class A/B) amp for my front L&R speakers and a Classe Amp 5 (class D) amp for center and surrounds and it sounds great....no timing/speed issues at all. |
