My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
... The question should be not whether there are DIY options to the Stromtank ... but whether the electrical system that you currently employ warrants these devices. Fremer recently did a major upgrade of his electrical service, which IMO would be more important overall than adding any of these battery devices ...
I’m not sure that it’s an either/or question, but I absolutely agree that solutions such as the Stromtank may be superfluous if you already have first class electric service supplying a nice clean install with dedicated lines. It’s amazing what a difference that can make.
Having dedicated lines is just the start of upgrading your power supply. One has to look at the quality of the cable from the street transformer, make sure the street transformer is up to the task ( most times there are upgrade options for this, and connection options that are newer), an upgraded panel at the house and in home wiring upgrades, all of which make a big improvement, IME. ( and as MF also found out!)
Having dedicated lines is just the start of upgrading your power supply.
Very, very true.
One has to look at the quality of the cable from the street transformer, make sure the street transformer is up to the task ( most times there are upgrade options for this, and connection options that are newer ...
Where I live, that equipment is pretty much dictated by the utility. To get improvements there (or anywhere in the utility’s network, I’ve actually been through this), you probably need to find fault with the quality of the service itself. You can do that by testing the service at the meter pan.
... an upgraded panel at the house and in home wiring upgrades ...
Oh yes. There can be bigtime improvements to be had there. Also: derated lines.
I’ll be curious when you try a higher efficiency speaker whether the Boulder 3k series still holds. I’d think not. For power hungry Magicos certainly makes sense.
I don’t see myself doing high efficiency speakers. I’ve tried different brands such as horns, Klipsch, JBL, fyne audio and although they we were good, I wasn’t able to connect. I have a gut feeling that the s7 won’t go anywhere for a long time .
I only see myself with Aida 2 or potentially Alexx V. Rockport Lyra could be possible but other than these speakers, nothing interest me. As far as amps and preamps, I feel beyond satisfied. I’ve had ZERO DESIRE to purchase anymore amps or preamps since I got the 3060 and 3010. It’s like if you owned a 1500hp buggati Veyron... Very few other cars would impress you.
The worst part of playing at this level is that you are playing alone...
I don’t think Kiethr is talking about that much efficiency just speakers easier to drive not necessarily horns, that’s extreme. You’re right very few cars will impress you now. Would only be one of those you haven’t owned yet if that. Who knows. I’m sure there are more people than you think playing at that level or higher they just don’t talk about it. At least not on typical forums. You’re the only one I know that is willing to share it. Thanks for sharing Jay
No problem. It's cold and lonely at the top of the Everest for sure.
Anyhow, I will be evaluating some footers from a brand that approached me at axpona this year. I've never heard of it but they seem quite interesting. I will also be bringing some crazy cable lifters from a German brand that are well... Very expensive. I want to see if they are really better than affordable cable lifters.
I am also waiting on the turntable stand which hopefully arrives at the end of the month. I have 3 friends with a deep vinyl collection who will loan me their best records and see where the cards may fall.
Something interesting that you all might have noticed: my last video has almost 10k views in a single day... Cables seem to be one of the most viewed videos and interesting topics for the masses. Maybe I should do a comparison video of the top cable brands...
Isn't it nuts that cable conversations are so attractive for most people???
It is now obvious, apparent, and indisputable that this has become a "sales thread" for Stromtank and what ever other products Jay decides to represent, promote, and sell of course as a new dealer he will not have access to many of the premium lines of music reproduction equipment. For guidance he may want to research and review what former Audiogon user "millercarbon" has done after leaving the group for what I can only assume, surmise, and conclude were his commercial activities here he has his own web site now.
I think people liked that you said “Don’t waste your Money”. You channel is not known for the conservative approach. That got my attention for sure. I’m like, did that come from Jay. Lol!
I won’t go so far as to say Sales thread for just Stromtank. Many other products as well have been represented my many people here, just like in almost all forums. Let’s face it this is a target audience. However you can sift through this and still learn valuable information about a whole host of things that pertain to this hobby. It’s like reading ads in stereophile back in the day learning about new things that were out. Now you can hear it, how cool is that.
You can LEAVE and find another thread that suits your needs since you have your opinion of my practices and body of work throughout the years long before I decided to stop feeding dealers sales.
You think there is a line of folks outside waiting to buy stromtanks and 9,000 dollar artesania audio stands which I AM A DEALER FOR?
In case you have Stevie wonder’s eye sight and have not seen my channel, I play with the ultra high end. These pieces don’t fly off the shelves.
Any idea how many folks that READ this thread have actually bought anything from me? Here’s a fact: LESS THAN 5!!
And WHO ARE YOU? You haven’t been contributing a thing here so you are a ghost to me and of course you only open your mouth to say something negative. Typical behavior of those who come in here to disrupt and then walk out.
Lastly, I find it interesting that all these individuals who love to come in here RANDOMLY without EVER EVER having said a word before have the audacity to never say a thing to me in person. I don’t hide, I am not a forum crusader that simply types all day long and throw rocks at others. I step out, I go to shows.
And no this isn’t bullying, this is me talking with cojones and addressing the stupidity.
Respect is earned and I’ve been the one who’s spent the money, driven hours and thousands of miles, herniated my back while nobody else does anything remotely close to what I do. I do all the leg work here. Yes it infuriates me when garbage talkers start crap and they don’t even have pictures of their system. Check yourself before you come check me. Before you talk smack about your neighbor with the Lambo and Ferrari, open your hand and check your key fob - does it say Hyundai or Toyota?
If one does not appreciate, agree with, or condone the way the OP is running, conducting, or operating his thread or YouTube channel, one is more than capable of avoiding, diverting or passing by such a thread. If able to think clearly, make own decisions and operate a communication device it seems logical to avoid, steer away from and never have to waste one's time with such threads that represent, promote or stand behind products they believe in.
I can’t keep these random perpetrators away from the thread on my own. You all know that those who have been with me from the beginning are always appreciated and have a second home in my home. let’s not allow this thread to be dismantled by unimportant characters who haven’t been putting in the work you all have done to keep this alive.
Come at me with respect and I will do the same. I stay in my lane and you stay in yours. Yes this is a public thread but I’m by no means going to allow disrespect towards me and all the work I’ve put it throughout the years. You don’t have to agree with anything I say here and I am ok with it but you can close out of this thread. This is THE LONGEST RUNNING THREAD in the history of this site for a reason. It’s not a coincidence. If this thread sucked, it would have died years ago.
People want to see my madness which is why they keep tuning in. NOBODY ELSE IS DOING WHAT I AM DOING ON ANY SITE OR ON YOUTUBE - SORRY I KNOW THAT HURTS. There aren’t many people who want to go through millions of dollars in gear and post about it on here and on YouTube. It’s not easy work and not for everyone. If you hate what I do, you'll have a full-time job with me.
Jay if you object to my contributions, presence, or thoughts you are free to contact the moderators and seek my dismissal as I explained I am under no obligation to seek your approval before sharing, expressing, or explaining my thoughts, beliefs, or opinions you are now here to sell music reproduction system components and trying to conceal that simple fact reflects poorly on you and your standards.
If you think you can threaten, intimidate, and bully me to comply with your requirements you are wrong.
What a world this has become....on tv the rise in crime is heartbreaking. This place is for audiophiles to read if they wish and comment if they wish, but only with kindness of heart should they do so. Didn't Mom ever explain things like that?
What has been your “contribution” to this thread exactly? As some have already said, Jay has gone to great lengths to ensure transparency since day one. I and others have been learning and entertained by Jay for 5 years. I don’t give a rat’s a$$ that he has taken on a line or two. We are all adults and can make our own decisions.
Your only “contribution” to this thread below amounts to stone throwing, is patently false and by no means represents the opinion of all that follow this thread.
“It is now obvious, apparent, and indisputable that this has become a "sales thread" for Stromtank and what ever other products Jay decides to represent, promote, and sell”
Jay said: "I don’t see myself doing high efficiency speakers. I’ve tried different brands such as horns, Klipsch, JBL, fyne audio and although they we were good, I wasn’t able to connect. I have a gut feeling that the s7 won’t go anywhere for a long time ."
Agree--high efficiency usually has great dynamics, but frequently lacks flat frequency response.
Thanks for articulating things better than I did. Some folks just love feeling "heard" even if they don’t have much to say.
Someone told me once: "don’t wrestle with pigs because all they want is for you to jump in the mud with them"
Sometimes my passion drags me in the mud and well you all see what ends up happening. I don’t like having to "go off" but if I don’t 🛑 stop it dead in its tracks, it can get exponentially worse and then this becomes a pig farm.
I ask ANYONE who is sitting on the sidelines and who IS NOT a contributor or who has never been part of this thread throughout the years to come at me respectfully. I don’t appreciate narratives or disrespect when I’ve never seen you collaborate on here. If I know you have been a regular on here, I know when you’re being sarcastic or simply joking but if I don’t know you, it’s best to present yourself first and respectfully share your thoughts.
It is best to just be cordial and collegial. Being accusatory or inflaming adds nothing to the value of the thread or discussion.
I read Jay’s thread every day, otherwise, I don’t come around much anymore. Agon has become the antithesis of friendly and cordial. I’ve been here for over a decade, and I wish it weren’t true, but the posts above just put another nail in the downward trend on this site. Being respectful can turn that trend if the users here will put it into action.
A bit of a clarification on the upper end Fyne speakers. Here is where some DIY skills and experience can really sort things out. I have owned the F704 speakers for a year now. They can play loud, but I suppose one needs to first define loud as it is a subjective term. 87db is very loud to some, while others find 87db moderately loud.
The drivers can “take a beating” but the iron core inductors on both drivers can saturate and distort at subjectively high volumes. I upgraded the inductors to air core foil types in addition to upgrading all capacitors, resistors, binding posts and internal wire. The result was quite stunning and helped this $19,000 speaker sound far more expensive and refined. The inductors were the biggest issue at high volumes in my experience.
Fyne is trying to stay within a given price point and using parts that cost $1500 more inside the speaker would increase the selling price by $6000-$8000. Sometimes DIY skills can really pay off.
zprr"What has been your “contribution” to this thread exactly?"
Apparently this thread is enjoyed by a group of very sensitive people who feel deep emotional connections with this thread and who are made threatened, uncomfortable, or uneasy by any opinion, reference, or claim which conflicts with their sense of security, safety, and comfort that is why it is so odd that I was the one threatened with getting beat up by Jay in the now deleted post where he also made insult to my testicles so don’t try and "paint me" as the disrupter of this thread.
Now that it seems you have reached a pinnacle in your solid state dream system, it would be cool to see you set up a second system using SOTA triode tube phono sections/preamps/amps and a pair of Cube Audio Nenuphars, or even better their TOTL Nenuphar Basis with integrated woofer sections. Sound good?
It’s clear that your views or sentiments about what we have built here throughout the years doesn’t suit your taste buds. Nothing wrong with that, but if it’s clear your views aren’t appreciated here (see comments above this one), why are you here? Isn’t better to go find something that aligns with your beliefs?
I don’t know how much more subtle I can be with this particular post to let you know what should be the obvious.
I see that Jay has posted his Taiko Extreme music server for sale, states to contact for price so it could be a good opportunity for someone to save on a top echelon server. GLWS!
"You just wasted a good 30 min of your life typing the U.S. constitution above...nobody is going to try ANYTHING you wrote above... Nobody that contributes to this thread..."
...
No offensive, but you are auditioning $60,000 - $100,000 equipment, I doubt more than 3 people in the entire World will ever listen to them.
jays_audio_lab OP"It’s clear that your views or sentiments about what we have built here throughouit’s clear your views aren’t appreciated here (see comments above this one), why are you here? Isn’t better to go find something that aligns with your beliefs?
It is correct and accurate to say that there are those who have expressed substantial, significant, and even "extreme" preference that I leave, ignore, and not return to this thread, including a violent threat. As I mentioned earlier it is apparent and obvious that some users here are very emotional, tender, sensitive people so of course people like that would respond and comply and not be here however I do not really care if people like me and most important is that I do not "defer" to bullies.
There is obviously something wrong with clearthink. Too bad he enjoys disrupting really good threads. Maybe we will get lucky and he'll get tired of it soon.
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