My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

Jay,

Your latest video is interesting. The 3rd song at 5:04 has very clear sound on guitar and voice. But the 2nd song at about 2:25 starts out with a muddy piano and then I get surprised by the voice which is very close miked and bright. I LIKE the 2nd song voice and the entire 3rd song, but I don’t know whether the discontinuity in the 2nd song is the fault of the recording (most likely), or whether the weakness of the S7 speaker is the too dominant bass, although only compared to the superlative midrange/HF. The 3rd song didn’t have much bass, so the whole sound is coherent and delightful. Obviously, the Boulder is the most perfect component, but I am questioning the S7 speaker.

My guess is that the S3 speaker has the most coherent sound, due to the more advanced neographene woofer, compared to the aluminum woofer in the S5 and S7. I suppose the S3 is the best of the S series for overall accuracy and coherence, while the S7 offers the most quantity of bass and macrodynamics. I hope you can go somewhere (Mike’s place?) to compare the S3 and S7. The S3 reaches down to 24 Hz, so that should please almost anyone who wants a full range speaker.

BTW, the only thing I didn't like about the Wilson XLF was its overblown bass.  The Magico S7 is better balanced and more coherent than the XLF.  

@jays_audio_lab 

Great post Jay. It is very hard to keep reading the thread when there are several posters who show up infrequently and try to derail the thread. They could easily just start their own thread, yet they keep coming back. Bravo on your restraint Jay.

BTW, I read "back to your normal channel....filled with the glory of spending big bucks on stereo gear" as a direct insult too; how could you read it any differently?

I don't need to show you anything or prove anything (it would not serve anyone).

What I know is real (my direct experience)......you have no idea of most of what I am talking about because you never did any super tweaking or DIYing.......so you do not know what hardwiring to a voice coil does.....or removing a binding post or spades.....or felting on the baffles....or moving drivers relative to another for time aligning.....you just do not know......and that is not a problem....I do not know what a Magico sounds like compared to a Focal.......SO.....your knowledge serves those that it serves (people with big bucks who just want to buy stuff).  My knowledge serves those it serves (those people interested in all out sound and want to tweak and make their own things).....We serve different people....I wish you great success helping and making money from those who want do to what you do.  I get nothing from informing others.....except the feeling of oneness and joy that I have shared my truth and maybe someone will use my knowledge for their own benefit.....My knowledge does not hurt your business.  People who want to buy expensive stuff are living in their own reality.....they want your info....

There are so many ways up the transparency mountain......besides the single driver with super tweeter game....there are all the cool horn systems:.....Stein, Aries Cerat, Cessaro, JBL, Avantgarde, Living Voice, Acapella, etc. etc. etc......and you can make your own horn speakers....really cheap...and mind blowing.  The guy at ZenWave is finishing a horn loaded speaker and from the looks of it (you can see stuff about this on audiocircle)....it is going to be incredible.   This is what I do.......I open the doors to more.....I open the doors to more.......you can go in......or you can play with the same old toys.  I am learning to get unstuck....more and more every day.   More....is more fun!  More is different!  More is who we are!....we are infinite.  Enjoy the ride.   it's forever. 

Raising our vibration every day......feeling more and more connected to all that is and to everyone........telling the truth.....living the truth....

Don't fight.....celebrate!  There is so much to be thankful for.  Every single moment is a blessing beyond our imaginiation.

Please find a different thread to annoy

Time to find out which is the power conditioner that I will be representing:

Jay,

I value inputs from both you and ricevs.  We are all in the pursuit of excellence.  It comes at all price levels.  Suppose you re-titled your thread as "best sound at high prices" and ricevs opened up a thread as "best sound for DIYers and MODers." While your re-titled thread would still gather lots of attention, after most people laughed they would realize that it wouldn't give them much practical advice within their budgets.  $50K for a total system is still big money for many people.  Even you are increasingly recognizing excellence at more modest prices.  I consider the M6 at $175K to be mediocre in sound and also poor value, certainly compared to the S7.  At $76K, the S7 is better than the M6 by a mile for absolute performance.  But I believe that the S3 at about $35K is still better, except for people who dig deep bass and loud SPL's.

But the top Boulder electronics is probably superior in every way to cheaper alternatives, so if one has the money, that is a valid choice.  For accuracy, a superior combo might be the cheaper S3 with the costly Boulder 3000 series.  I have contempt for the typical dealer who says that a cheap speaker should go with a cheap amp.  That's just marketing that has nothing to do with assembling the best possible system.

Ricevs' info about other speakers is enlightening.  I was impressed with the Lii Audio Silver 8 speaker.  You could still appreciate your MSB dac, Boulder electronics feeding that speaker.  

An open mind to all possibilities is called for.  

Viber- well said. Many people use this thread to push there own agenda, talk about other stuff etc including the OP.  Getting upset over it solves nothing.  Relax and enjoy the read and you may pick up a few tips along the way.  This is the most diverse thread on audiogon. What started here originally is no longer,  over time it has evolved into much more which is why it has lasted so long. It’s no longer about one thing and never will be again. Trying to contain it is futile and counterproductive IMHO. This is why this thread is so good. Take care everyone. 

@carey1110 

thank you Carey. 

jays_audio_lab OP "I DO NOT WANT TO DO DYI! I don’t want to be part of an experiment like Frankenstein. There are other threads and outlets that cater to that type of stuff. Why aren’t you there? Why do you come back? STAY IN YOUR LANE AND WORRY ABOUT DOING YOUR THING AND STOP DRAGGING ME INTO YOUR BUSINESS! Maybe I am buried in your dreams and you sleepwalk chanting my name. Maybe my system inspires you for a greater purpose in your life? Who the hell knows - all i ask is for you to keep my name out of your mouth!"

You sound very angry, disturbed, and upset but it is not for you to limit, restrict, or discourage users, contributors, and members here on Audiogon from stating, expressing, or sharing their thoughts, beliefs and experience this forum is open to all if you find a user objectionable, offensive, or inappropriate you should notify the moderators who will manage the situation according to the forum's rules and guidelines.  

As for DIY you are leaving a lot of performance "on the table" by refusing, rejecting, and dismissing this very valid method, approach, and practice.

This thread as are all threads are open to all if you seek to establish, create, and monitor you're own thread free of interference, conflict, and  objections you are of course free to create your own site as did millercarbon.

The sad fact is many people just want to hear themselves "talk," and are looking for acceptance for their ideas, even when everyone (it seems) is telling them they are full of it. I pretty much agree with what Carey said above. Just ignore them, because shouting into the wind will only aggravate and raise blood pressure more, and will be futile anyway. The long-time readers of the thread know who the valuable contributors are, and who the charlatans are.

Of course, each is free to judge for themself who falls into each category.

There might even be some who read the thread purely for the drama, haha. I’m trying to take the high road more than I did in my youth, hehe

Jay,

It probably wasn't a good idea to quote Will Smith after "the slap."

Carey1110--agree about the benefits of diverse views and subjects discussed in one thread.  Everything relates to other subjects, so it is appropriate to discuss how amps combine with different speakers, uses with different sources and qualities of recordings, etc.

Clearthink--agree about the vast possibilities of DIY. For me, I am not handy with soldering. With my car, I don’t mess with even simple things like oil changes, but leave the work to a mechanic that I trust. But I am at a very simple audio DIY level. My father, an engineer built his own amps and Altec Voice of the Theater from parts. He grew up poor, so just used plain zip cord for speaker wire. I continued zip cord, and was shocked to find out that many audiophile speaker cables were markedly veiled by comparison. I never understood why, considering the low quality of materials in zip cord, but my desire for musical satisfaction was the only thing that mattered. Later, I discovered EQ in my recording activities, and put it in place of my preamp line stage which I dumped. I thought my father would criticize my use of this analog Rane ME 60 EQ because it violated audiophile principles of purity, but he just said to do it and trust my ears.

Trusting your ears is the basis of all DIY activity. There are some people who buy entire systems from a single manufacturer. I don’t think that any one manufacturer knows what is best for any single audiophile, despite the tempting belief that the components are matched for best synergy. Although Jay denies that he is a DIY’er, I guarantee that there is not any other person in the world who has precisely the same combination of components as he. Although ricevs is the ultimate DIY’er, Jay still does careful matching according to his goals. This makes him a true DIY’er on his own level. Literally, he "does it all himself" by owning components and experimenting.

jays_audio_lab

Excellent Video on the Stromtank Conditioner. Speak, in effect, about the battery inside of unit- what is the lifespan? How is the battery replaced/repaired? Will parts/service be conducted at your place? Or, ship back to Germany?

Happy Listening!

Stromtank is a very nice piece, but you have to really be careful which model you pick. The model that was reviewed by S'phile and the model in Jay's video would not be great for powering almost all larger ss amps. 

You can buy a separate inverter and batteries and charger for $2K or less that will perform the same as the Stomtank.....maybe better. Stromtank is for those that have money to burn.

Please read this:.....sounded the same as the $20K Stomtank

http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0119/Goal_Zero_Yeti_400_Lithium_Portable_Power_Station_Review.htm

The Goal Zero is good but the Ecoflow Delta Pro sounds way better......my friend is using one on his system.......soncially much better than the Yeti 3000.

The problem with commercial all in ones is that the fan will come on.....and we don’t want noise in our listening rooms. My friend has his Ecoflow in the next room over and runs a power cord through the wall.

The way around this is to use a separate 2-4K inverter.....separate batteries and charger......a low distoriton sine wave inverter plus 200 amp hours of batteries and charger will cost you $1000-$2500 depending to power needed and type of battery.

You will want to make sure your brand of inverter does not turn its fans on till using maybe half power. If you have a 3 thousand watt inverter.....then the fan will not come on unless you are drawing 1500 watt continuous......not likely in most audio system.

Even though inverters are incredible......they still produce noise. My friend is using the Puritan line filter ($2K) after the Ecoflow for even better sound. He also has a separate ground rod for his stereo and usies the Puritan ground filter and separate ground wires for most of his gear......incredibly low noise and super transparency.....for way, way less than the Stromtank.

I am puzzled why the two Stromtank models Jay talked about have different sound characteristics.  Jay's descriptions match the Audiodrom review from the Stromtank site.  The only difference in the models is in the amount of battery energy storage.  The goal is to generate a pure sine wave from the inverter in the S-tank.  (The S-tank must be a 2 in 1 unit--battery plus inverter to generate the sine wave to feed the electronics.)  Why should the sine wave be different in each model?  The way Jay described the sound is like how people describe tube amps vs SS amps.  Jay said the S1000 sounds more articulate (like a SS amp) and the S2500 as smooth (like a tube amp), making bright recordings sound more forgiving.  The ideal power conditioner should not color the sound in a forgiving manner.  I am confused about this technology.

Ricevs would say that the models may differ in the materials used, which would explain the different sound characters.

Your turn, Jay.  Thanks.

Yes, all inverters will sound different.  Inverters are a kin to a class D amp....they synthesize a sine wave......and they then have a coil and a cap on the output to filter the noise......all coils and caps have a sound......all electronics have a sound.....and, as Jay mentioned....when you have a charger connected to the batteries....it degrades the sound.  i imagine the brand and type of batteries used will affect the sound as well.  However, i have never heard anyone using ANY inverter that was not blown away by the sound improvement and video improvement.

Back in the 90s I first played with the Exeltech inverters (first in the world with low distoriton sind wave inverters).....they were expensive.....even the 500 watter back in the mid 90s was $500.  Now you can get a 2000 watter for less than that.  I changed the caps on the output from some Panasonic caps to Wonder caps and it made a noticeable difference.  Of course, the jacks, wiring and everything make a difference.

Re, the difference between the two "Clean out my bank account Stroms".....he he: You don't just have a difference of battery capacity but current capacity ......meaning bigger and more parts in the large one......and some larger parts might not sound as good as smaller parts....and on and on to infinity.

Will be interested in seeing how Jay keeps thing whole now that he has a selling agenda??

Ric, please go away,

Don 

The truth serves everyone.  We are all welcome here.  BTW......the reviewer of the Yeti 400 above is now using a Yeti 1200 as well.....to power his Pass X250.8 amp.......he has it in a closet so he cannot hear the fan......he loves it.......of course, one Ecoflow Delta Pro would be way, way better than both those baby Goal Zeros.

The Stromtank 2500 has a larger battery than the s1000 and it also uses dual inverters.

Everything i do with these units can be heard. I even tried an aftermarket powercord to charge the battery and proceeded to listen to the Stromtank in battery mode and it sounded different.

I thought I was going nuts but nope. The battery itself can be charged with a different flavor if you use different powercords.

This is WHY i like the Magico S7 A LOT. I can see hear everything that is happening.

The 2500 quantum Stromtank is super smooth and huge sounding. It makes things sound like a Dagostino momentum amplifier. The leading edges are polished and filed down in a way that even terrible recordings sound listenable and very acceptable through a revealing speaker like the Magico S7.

One of the most significant changes of the Stromtank is the purity of the midrange. It is locked-in dead center and extremely focused. You can even hear if the vocals were dead center or slightly off to the right or left. It is CRAZY 😂

The S1000 is more neutral allowing for more of your system to come through while still helping to clean up all the noise and interference that you WOULD NEVER know is there.

You guys know i own the Boulder 3060 and 2110 and both have incredible noise suppression and overbuilt power supplies that dig out an insane amount of detail that other electronics simply miss and yet adding the Stromtank has shown me that i wasn’t done and that there was more for me to extract.

I sat and listened to both units for about 3 months and tried to go back to stock outlets and each time i did that the beryllium tweeters from my Mágico and focal Maestro became aggressive and yes abrasive at times.

By the way, even the ON-GRID mode suppresses noise and gives you A LOT of clarity. You can listen to both units for 5-6 hours in battery mode and then they automatically switch to ON-GRID mode once the batteries reach 10% - no interruptions EVER.

I represent the STROMTANK because there is nothing like it. It is the only battery powered unit in the world that is specifically made for audio systems and comes "plug and play"

I also feel like this is a "add on" to an already great sounding system. I have been very strategic about only representing those brands I’m probably never going to change in the near future.

I don’t want to embark on marketing efforts for other dealers to cash in on my work. Look, I’ll be very transparent here:

It has been brought to my attention by actual buyers of some of the gear you’ve seen on my channel that dealers are using MY VIDEOS to make sales - to close deals. Dealers actually send my videos out to customers " watch this video from the dude on YouTube who’s had everything. Did you see what he said about the product you asked me about?".

Well folks, i understand that comes with the territory, but i will not be doing public service for dealers to drive a Ferraris and have 6 figure boats. You all don’t think my Gryphon videos have helped gryphon dealers sell more?

Notice, i don’t represent any products that are considered the "MACROS" of a system. I am focused on things that very few folks will buy. You really think people will be buying $9,000 stands everyday? You really think people will be blowing up my phone to spend $15k on a Stromtank? Lol...come on folks...these are pieces that maybe 10-15% of the entire audiophile community would even consider and guess what? Even the dudes that have deep pockets WANT A DISCOUNT!!

Don’t get things twisted: what i represent won’t make me pull up in a Ferrari tomorrow. I’m aware of the skepticism that some folks will have, but if I’m going to live my life worried of what others will think then am I really living my life?

These past few months have allowed me to simply accept that I can’t listen to music without a Stromtank. It’s one of those components that you shouldn’t listen to if you can’t afford it because it will be impossible to unhear it.

I have owned many different power conditioners and they all have been great and had their positive impact on my systems. I simply feel that the Stromtank is more special and FINALLY erases the need to spend thousands of dollars on expensive powercords... Yes folks, stock powercords will sound amazing when plugged into the Stromtank. Why keep buying and selling powercords? Let me be the one to keep doing that since that is what my channel is all about. For once, here you have a solution to never having to buy 6-8 powercords that cost more money than the S1000 or even the 2500 quantum.

You guys don’t get sick of buying and trying expensive powercords? You all don’t get sick of having to sell your powecords each time you change components because maybe the new components don’t have synergy with your current powercords? Hell, i get sick of it too so that is why I just keep about 5-8 different brands of powercords at my disposal.

Lastly, going forward you all will be seeing far more from the Magico S7 and Stromtank. As a matter of fact, I’ll say it here first: My focal Maestro Utopia EVO left the room a week ago. Find out on my next video why I sold them .

The Stromtank may not be more transparent than a $1K inverter/battery/charger system........but Jay is correct......it is not plug and play.  You have to buy the separate units......and then have a timer so you will turn the charger on when needed and turn it off when you want to play again.  And you have to figure out which thangs to buy, etc.  However, you can get tons of batteries that would cost you way less than the Stromtank and it could play way longer than any Strom and handle even bigger amps than the Strom.......you just don't get the plug and play mode.......with intelligent battery charger/maintainer system built in.

The Ecoflow Delta Pro unit that is 3600 watts for $3.7K......is amazing sounding and it probably sounds better than a Stromtank........BUT, it has the problem of noise.....and it turns off your system for a micro second when going into charging modes....two downsides.........imagine if they were to fix those two minor problems......then you would have a universal audiophile inverter that is plug and play for less than $4k.  I hope some other company does this soon as most on this thread don't want something they have to fool with.  My tweaky friends have no problem with these minor issues.  I use the $450 Goal Zero modded so the fans never come on....with my front end.....and love it.....but I need a larger one to run my power amp as the baby one cannot handle the turn on surge of an amp.......you need at least a 2K inverter (4000 watt surge) for most systems that would include an amp.  When I get enough money.....I am going to buy one......as my amp is still running off the wall.....and that is not good.  Once you hear a great inverter.....and you are off the grid.....you cannot go back ot the distortion of the wall.....no matter what line conditioner you have......this is simply better......and if you don't mind a few minor issures......it is super cheap.  

Here is a cheap inverter to experiment with:

Here is a cheap battery to use with it.

A 25 amp charger will set you back around $150.......so the above three are less than $700 delivered.......1200 watts of batter, a 2000 watt inverter with 3600 watt surge and a good charger.....have fun.

ricevs

Excellent counter information to Jay's Stromtank. Since he did not answer my query- what is your opinion on the lifespan of the battery inside the S-Tank ?

How is it replaced or repaired?

Happy Listening!

Battery life is approximately 20 years - (Tesla Battery).

Before i decided to represent the Stromtank, i did my homework and asked about servicing the unit. The unit is serviced out in the field. If there is ever an issue, they will mail you a diagnostic device that you plug into the service port. This decide will run a series of tests and essentially spit out codes that will instruct the service department what has failed and needs replacement.

The new part will then be sent to you and easily replaced by you or your dealer. No need to send your unit to Germany. That would have been a deal breaker for me.

The July 2022 S-phile article on the Stromtank S-1000 includes a statement on p 95 by the designer, Wolfgang Meletzky that is important.  He said there must be the proper impedance match between the S tank output and the input stage of the power amp.

To me, this may explain the different sound character of both units.  There might be a different sound comparison depending on your power amp, or preamp/dac or other components fed by the S tank.  Jay should compare the S 1000 to the S2500 using other electronics.  He had previously advised against using a power conditioner with power amps because of possible loss of dynamics, but I disagree.  The whole point of using S tanks or other battery/inverters as mentioned by ricevs is getting rid of junky power quality.  Even if the S tank were to limit dynamics as many power conditioners do, what is most important is power quality, not quantity.

So Jay should try other electronics with both S tanks and report on that.  Since it isn't possible to test all electronics, it is prudent to offer any buyer a reasonable trial period, with a money back guarantee less restocking fee to cover the costs and effort required.

I am still suspicious if Jay says that the cheaper S 1000 is more neutral than the S 2500.  By definition, a purifier unit is neutral, so if the S 2500 presents the music in a forgiving way, like a Dagnostino Momentum amp, then the S 2500 is not neutral and is just another euphonic device that colors the music in its own way, even if Jay goes ape over it.

I don’t see how the output impedance of an inverter (AC power source) would have any effect on the input impedance of a power amp......but what do I know?

I don’t understand your suspicion.....I already said over and over and over again that every single thing changes the sound......there is no such thing as neutral power....just different flavors of things. As I said.....my friend uses the Puritan line filter after his inverter (which probably is cleaner than the Stromtank) to clean up the sound more.....and now we are going to change the AC sockets on the Puritan to improve the sound more.....what don’t you get? It all makes a difference....EVERYTHING!

Every single brand of inverter will sound different......every single version by every manufacturer will sound different...........just like amps, just like everything. So, who is going to buy 10-20 brands of 2000 watt plus inverters and test them all? And experiment with different brands of batteries and types? However, any low distortion sine wave inverter will improve your sound.....this is why you should try the cheap ones to get your feet wet.....this inverter thing is new to the world......not much info on the sonics of each one.....esp...since there is only one super expensive one made specifically for audiophiles......I hope there is competition soon as these things need not cost over $5K for even the biggest ones.......since you can already buy a 3500 watter that sounds outrageous for $3700.

I asked the distributor WHY the S1000 sounds different than the 2500 QUANTUM and Stromtank responded immediately with the following:(copy and pasted it. They may have used Google translator)

" the 2500 QUANTUM is a higher technology grade, more battery power, more converter power and designed for more music enjoyment - sure more expensive because you can’t do such a super product for a small money. Same question why is an E class Mercedes better than a C class?

It’s got more batteries and a better converter. the quantum has additional features that the 1000 doesn’t have. You can also listen for longer since their are more batteries. The quantum also has a different and better converter than the 1000. The converter is like a power conditioner. It has its own transformer and small capacitors like you would find in an amp.

Stromtanks are different than other conditioners because they also have a lithium battery bank where power conditioners have small capacitors that are constant charging and discharging really quickly"

With all of the above said, i find it interesting that there are SO MANY QUESTIONS about the Stromtank, but very few questions with regards to $10,000 powecords? If we are going to question the Stromtank, i find it odd that $10k powercords get a pass...often times we can’t explain why these powercords are so much money let alone measure their benefits on the bench and yet the sonic improvements are quite audible.

Some things in this hobby can’t be measured or seen but can sure be heard.

For the first time I will agree with @ricevs about EVERYTHING making a difference. However, not every system is transparent enough to communicate what changed in the presentation. .

I REPEAT: WORK ON YOUR MACROS FIRST!

The Magico S7 has been instrumental at letting me capture what happens with and without the Stromtank. I dig its transparency, but i understand if others don’t.

@jays_audio_lab 

Great post Jay.

jays_audio_lab

Thank You for the follow up to my query. 20 year Battery life is a confident aspect.

Consider adding an Integrated amp to your system for testing with the Stromtank.

Happy Listening!

I use a PS Audio P12 regenerator plugged into a Shunyata Triton/Typhon conditioner with an Audioquest Hurricane into a dedicated AC Oyaide duplex and 50’ of $4K Oyaide cable into a dedicated breaker.

All this is $23K retail. But is amazing.

Other than using batteries, his are the stromtanks different from the P12?

PS audio isn’t close to a Stromtank by any stretch of the imagination. I’ve owned the P20 and as soon as I bought a Shunyata Denali, the P20 was gone (this was about 3 years ago)

Stromtank sits in the upper echelon of power conditioners. It doesn’t have any competition. Yes it is expensive, but once again, so are powercords and don’t get me started on speaker cables. You all remember when expensive powercords were frowned upon? After awhile, people accepted them after hearing the positive contribution they made to our systems. Stromtank is simply at this exact phase; "prove yourself".

It has already proven itself to me over the last 2 months.

Mágico owners MUST SERIOUSLY CONSIDER it and MSB owners have no idea how much better their DACs can sound until they use a Stromtank. The DAC gets significantly better and the Magico speakers have so much "ease" with the tweeter being super revealing while never ever getting in your face.

My entire system is connected into the Stromtank with the exception being the Boulder 3060. This amp needs 25 car batteries 😂

Jay,

The bottom line is your ears told you that the S 1000 is more neutral than the S 2500, and the S 2500 shaves off unpleasant HF and is forgiving.  All the technobabble doesn't explain what you heard.  I don't want any D'ag Momentum type of forgiving flavor.  Flavor is what S2500 gives you, and you like it, but it is not revealing transparency, meaning warts and all.

@viber6

no offense...but you know you aren’t buying either unit..come on man 😂... You’re just bored.

I am STILL waiting on you to buy ANYTHING I’ve mentioned here and I’m not talking about buying from me. I’m simply talking buying any product that i have displayed on my channel throughout the past 2-3 years?

Just saying...you make it look like you’re SERIOUS...we both know you are just a curious personality... Let those who are actually serious about the Stromtank chime in here.

You wouldn’t even contemplate the cheap experiment @ricevs outlined above which is far less money so what makes anyone believe you would consider a Stromtank...

If you’re serious about buying a Stromtank, come ready and I’ll blow your mind in my room. No need for me to type a document here as to why it is special. Let’s do it the right way?

We can do this with your lamp cord and the boulder gear too. This way you learn about cables with serious speakers and electronics. It could be a good learning experience for you.

If i start going back and forth here with you about the Stromtank, I’d have to get a part time job on here to support a fruitless effort.

What do you say?

Bring your checkbook and I'll have a recycle bin for the lamp cords because once you hear those in my system, reality will slap you in the face. 

viber in Jay's room....I'd watch that video.

HAHAHAHAHA

But then after being proven wrong he’d no longer be able to spew the blather, better to remain in fantasy land without accountability, but yes that would be hilarious.

Have ricevs come too with his $2k tweaked system that destroys the Boulders for good measure.

When the cryins done they can hug it out and ricevs can tell Viber he’s still beautiful and everyone is beautiful and nothing is everything and lamp cord is still prettier and sounds better than an untweaked roll of sausage

(not a personal attack on either and especially ricevs can be funny sometimes I don’t mind reading his stuff just the constant downplaying on WC’s stuff to elevate their own fringe views gets old, to say the least)

Jay,

Your business model is pushing high priced goods and getting people to pay good consult fees who would spend big money on products you recommend.  You are just like many businesses, high end audio or outside audio.

How about experiencing reality yourself?  You won't try lamp cord or EQ because they are at odds with the high price stuff you promote.  Why don't you spend a few bucks to try the battery/inverter alternatives ricevs presents?  That way you can get informed and give a real appraisal of a lot of products cheap and expensive in this area.  To be fair, maybe you would try them yourself IF you truly have an open mind.  However, you will likely not report any positive findings about cheap alternatives to your followers.  If you do admit some positive things, they will be de-emphasized in favor of what sonic flavors appeal to your followers.

Keep in mind that high end audio is a great way to get poor for most audiophiles.  The only entities that profit financially are those in the business.  We have a tough economy due to the world situation.  Most intelligent people here know this, but don't speak up. 

Still waiting on you to show up here Viber...but come READY!...

This not a field trip to the zoo. Show up with money in hand because the disappointment will forever curse you after you hear lamp cords through a magico and boulder. I want to give you an audio lesson that nobody else will so you can update your mind with current audio. 

Unless you take me up on it, you're better off hiding behind the bushes and simply reading. 

👍

👍 x2

Crickets.......

Everyone should read the thoughtful piece in the current Stereophile July 2022 piece by Rogier van Bakel in the "My Back Pages" on p 130 (not online yet). Title--"Quackery, gullibility, and open-mindedness." Rogier is a new contributor who tells of a NY Times journalist who had an epiphany about the medical benefit of his newfound open-mindedness. Parallels are made between open-mindedness in medical and audio experiences.

My detractors are largely close minded about my ideas that conflict with their preconceived notions, or just that they enjoy hate speech. They have NOT tried zip cord or EQ, but protest that my info is akin to deadly blasphemy. I would not object if anyone said, AFTER they have tried my ideas, that they didn’t like such sound. They are entitled to their sonic preferences, and if they made statements such as "zip cord is too zippy, my speaker cable gives me more fullness and bass that I like," I would accept the truth of their observations and understand that my suggestions are not for them. I think that IF Jay tried my suggestions, he may or may not like them in his system, because he likes somewhat different sound than I do.

My friend Steve who represents the excellent GTA speakers and subs, heard my zip cord and Rane EQ in his system, together with me. We agreed on the objective characteristics of both items--greater clarity and more immediate/upfront sound compared to his speaker cable and Pass preamp used in place of my Rane. It was an obvious big difference especially with judicious EQ, which got him wondering about perhaps the best EQ of all, the Levinson Cello Audio Palette. In the end, he went back to his speaker cable and Pass preamp, which suits the tastes of himself and most of his customers. Whatever he likes is fine by me, but he has an open mind.

Jay initiated an important project, battery/inverter as the best route to pure power. As a NYC resident who is bothered at times by poor sound from polluted power, this is an important subject that goes way beyond A/B’ing power amps and such. Ricevs has reconmmended cheap items and claims that they challenge and possibly surpass Stromtanks. I don’t know, since I have no experience obviously, but I don’t dismiss his claims and tell him to get off this thread as so many people here do. I got interested in the Yeti Goal Zero products last year after he mentioned them. I contacted several Goal Zero employees, but they had almost zero experience in high end audio applications. I don’t see ricevs or myself purchasing $100K worth of Stromtanks and several much cheaper battery/inverters to do A/B’s with various electronics. Since Jay already has two of the S-tanks, he is in a position to seriously study this important area. I might purchase a Goal Zero or other products that ricevs recommended. If there is no money back guarantee, I would be out only a few grand for this experiment. Jay has just scratched the surface of this important project, and there is no audio reviewer who has done a proper comparative review. We should put our heads together to try to really understand what and why certain products seem to have a sound. Frankly, I am disillusioned that there is not a single product that does the sought after goal of purity, WITHOUT any drawbacks of introducing sonic flavor. Perhaps the S 1000 is the closest for neutrality and purity, but nobody knows at present.

We need more respectful, intelligent sharing of information, not childish close mindedness. It is OK for someone with other interests to decide to ignore my ideas, provided he avoids verbal venom and adopts silence.

Jay, please avoid the aggressive sales pitch, at least until you have done the comparative study I have suggested and have demonstrated you have an open mind to anything. You have an opportunity to become THE expert on these battery/inverter products, and after much more R & D, be able to recommend products at all price levels, just as you have done for electronics, speakers, stands, cables, etc. There may not exist a product with absolutely the purest transparency and lack of sonic flavor, but you will know the sound character of each product, just as you know about the other ancillary components.

Thank you.

Most audiophiles are not hot rodders....tweakers, etc....they want expensive plug and play. There is only one audiophile plug and play inverter.....all the rest are for hot rodders. Jay will never play hot rodding. He wants to have fun....have it easy and make some money.....nothing wrong with that.

Let it go......us hot rodders can have the fun of finding stuff really cheap and great. You are not a hot rodder.....that is why you want Jay to do it for you. I am going to email PS Audio about inverters....maybe they could get rid of their power regenerators and make cheaper inverter units that would beat the Stromtank for way less. This game has just begun......but for the hot rodders......the time is now....Here is a nice 5000 watt inverter that the fan will not come on till its drawing 1666 watts continuous..........so for most of you with even moster amps.....will never come on.....and also a 200 amp hour Lifepo battery to get you 2500 watts of power......2 batteries gets you 5000 watts of power......so much more than Strom. 5000 watt inverter and 5000 watts of super battery for $2400.......add a charger for $200 and you are good to go. Now how much is the 1000 watt Strom?.....something like $16K?

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Thanks for all your suggestions, ricevs. I am mostly a plug and play guy, so which audiophile unit do you recommend, or is the Stromtank the only one? The Goal Zero is plug and play.

In Jay’s post of 6/25, 7:58 PM, I found an informative statement by the S-tank distributor--"The quantum (2500) also has a different and better converter than the 1000. The converter is like a power conditioner. It has its own transformer and small capacitors like you would find in an amp."

So we are back to the familiar reality that converters (inverters?) have electronics in them. There is no such thing as a perfectly transparent piece of electronics. We want to remove dirty power artifacts, but we have to live with adding distortions from the electronics--S-tank as well as PS Audio and the units that ricevs mentions. Are added electronic distortions less than the benefits of battery power and the distortions on the power from the wall? Perhaps YES. PS Audio says that wall power can have 5% or higher distortion, and their units reduce it to a small fraction of 1%. A related observation is the benefit of EQ, which vastly outweighs the additive distortions of the EQ’s electronics, in my experience.

The bottom line is that every prospective customer for a battery/inverter should listen to that unit himself in his own system, just like he would listen to any other electronics he buys.  If he doesn't like D’Agostino Momentum types of colorations, he will choose a unit with different colorations that he prefers.  This may have nothing to do with the price of the unit.

Theory is just talk. The only way to know something is to try it. I already stated that every inverter will sound different.....but that MOST any inverter will beat the wall or other conditioner.......If you read the review by Tom Lyle...you will realize he also had the $10K PS Audio power plant and that was beaten by the Stromtank and by the (equally as good as Stromtank) $450 Goal Zero. All in one units you can buy, like the Goal Zero, are not plug and play.....they have fans that come on. I use the Yeti 400 with all the covers off and the heat sensor underneath the battery disconnected.....fan never comes on.....the fact that the all in ones are totally enclosed is the main problem. It does not allow good heat dissapation. The all in ones are designed for outdoor use. My friend with the big Ecoflow has it in a separate room. Separate inverters are built out of aluminum and look like heat sink bricks....that is why they can run higher power without a fan coming on. You can put an all in one in the closet, in another room or mod it so the fan does not come on. The Yeti 400 will not power on an amp.....no matter how low of draw of power from the amp.....it does not have enough surge current capability.....so, it is only for front end components. This is why I am going to buy a separate more powerful inverter to run my whole system. I would say a 2000 watt inverter (4000 watt surge) is minimum to run a whole system.

So, who is going to buy an inverter, battery (or batteries) and charger and get way better sound? Anyone?......Is there a hot rodder out there in the world? It is certainly not a money problem for most reading this thread. (some of you have $3000 unused power cords sitting around collecting dust).......Is it a lack of desire for best sound attainable problem? Is it a looks problem?.....a space problem? A WAF problem?

Where there is a WILL....there is a way. Are you willing to be more happy today than yesterday? if so, how can you do it?.....and will you do it? Will I do it?

With my analog only system, I would only plug-in my preamp and my turntable.

With my PS Audio P12, I plug in everything including my mono blocks.

The resulting clean sine wave now applies to everything.

And by keeping my Shunyata Triton/Typhon in line plugging in the P12 with an Audioquest Hurricane then the T/T into the wall dedicated circuit, I also get the benefits of the Shunyatas. I tried the amps directly into the wall. No way!

My method costs about the same as the Stromtank but, surely, including the amps is central and vital.