My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Time is of the essence. I gotta push forward and i can’t sit still doing this for the next 8-10 years: still in a small rabbit hole.
Everything needs to move forward. It’s no different than holding a job. Who wants to keep doing the same job with zero aspirations of becoming a manager or director or whatever is considered the next step up ladder from where you are today?
I’ve done 5 years of this folks. I can’t keep throwing the same fish hook in the same pond. It would be nice to eventually go into deeper waters. I’m naturally a person that needs change and never feel comfortable doing the same thing for too long.
A close friend of mine told me something that I’d never forget and which he practices successfully: if you are at a job doing the same thing for 3 years with zero promotion of any kind, you are wasting your time and are falling behind.
Arnold Schwarzenegger claims one of the recipes for his success was to never sleep more than 6 hours or else you are already behind in your day to day.
I started this thread in my 30s and now I’m in my 40s and i don’t and won’t be doing this exact same thing when I’m in my 50s or i failed myself. Bigger things need to happen or I’m not doing something right. This is NOTHING ELSE other than me wanting more FOR ME because I’ve put in 5 years - not 5 months or 5 weeks. I could have finished a few masters degrees during this time. Finding ways to move up are quite limited but i can’t let this take me out. It is all on ME how i can improve content, diversify into other things and find better ways to be productive.
Amazon started selling books and look at them now? What would have happened if they only stuck to selling books?
You should absolutely do what you want to do. Nothing wrong with that at all.
What I foresee (and probably kren0006 as well) is that some folks will look at you differently as a Dealer, as opposed to just a guy who buys equipment and comments on that equipment.
Enjoy what you do and succeed in what you do - congrats on that WC.
Understood and people can see me as a dealer and I’m ok with it. I can’t let that affect me or I’ll be in the same pond for the rest of my life and these folks aren’t fishing right next to me to comprehend what it feels like. Opinions will be part of life no matter what. You can give away everything you own today and someone will still complain. It's the nature of us human beings.
Being functionally blind it is sometimes hard to read long forums....Did Jay identify the name of his music server? Also, when you shoot your videos, do you use your phone or a special microphone/recording device?
If the goal is more stuff....or more toys....or more money......or more fame....or more attention.....or more whatever.....you can never get enough......for all this does not satisfy.
If your goal is more joy, more love, feeling better, making a difference in the world....following your heart......then following this goal will satisfy. What is your souls passion?....follow that.
I used to cruise down Colorado blvd. in Pasadena in the mid 60s in my 51 chevy with my friends as we sang along to the Stones....and banged on our tambourine.....listening of course to the stock AM radio in the car. We were in ecstasy. Watch children playing in the waves......watch people playing with their children....watch the waves....look at the miracle all around you. You have already arrived.....you are indeed blessed every second by the miracle of life.....everything is loving you....and always has.....it just needs to look this way so we have something to grow into........for we come here to forget our magnificence and then to remember.......and how we remember is through loving......for what we put out.....we get back. This is the law of love, the law of Karma, the law of manifesting/attraction.......Be honest and straightforward and loving in all you do......your life will be more and more blessed and so will everyone you touch.
This very moment is the most incredibly perfect and amazing moment that has ever existed in the entire history of the entire cosmos.........it is the only moment that exists.....it is now. Please enjoy.....Be a smile millionaire.....it's free.
Its way more far out than that......it is your very essence. You can breath it into your being with every breath. Try this: On the in breath you do Light....the next out breath you do love.....the next in breath you do joy....and the next out breath you do peace. You don't just say it to yourself as you are breathing but you experience that quality as deeply as you can. The more you feel that quality with each breath then the more you become that quality. The possibilities are infinite. You create your own reality by the quality of your thoughts, words spoken, feelings felt and actins done. Try this exercise for 10 minutes.....with full concentration and full all out feelings.......will transform you.....imagine....doing this all day.... you would be so blissed out your mind would explode in ecstasy. he he.....better than any drug.
Hi Jay, Love the Boz song. I have been playing it for several years and alwasy get funny looks when I say Boz Scaggs! The new amps sound great...revealing but not fatiguing. I just saw Billy Strings at the Anthem in DC. Wow. So good and good sound. I remember saying 'this is what live music (real music) sounds like!' And I remember it was fatiguing! But no rolled off highs for me, just need them smooth at the same time. My Audionet Max amps and Pre G2 with my Tambauqui DAC do this for me! Thanks again Jay! Ken
A dealer has a storefront, a dealer has a lot more product than what Jay has to offer. Jay is just the ultimate hobbiest who really likes to explore as many options as possible for the enjoyment he gets feom it, and finds it exciting that he gets to share that with all of us. I doubt he would still be doing it if was just for himself that he was doing it for. Sure it has to be fun for him too, but as with all of my hobbies, I find it a lot more fun if I have people to share it with. Most of us only get to do it for ourselves. Ive done the same thing Jay does in many hobbies, but I have a significant other who knows nothing about it and wouldn’t approve at all, so it makes it hard to enjoy these things when I cant do things openly,and severely limits the amount of enjoyment I can get out of them. Pretty much like driving a super car down the freeway at ultra high speeds and hoping the law dosnt catch you. Lol.
I don’t have problems with dealers, as long as they are honest and use their knowledge to really help the customer. I do think it is best that dealers ID themselves when they write stuff here on Audiogone though.
Yep, dealers are awesome for imparting knowledge about the brands that they carry. On rare occoasions dealers will offer advice such as a brand they do not carry is superior to those they carry, but that is typically pretty rare for obvious reasons. Nothing wrong with that - they want to sell what they carry, duh. But because they have a financial incentive in providing their advice, the objectivity is lost versus a neutral third party. That’s all.
Doesn't mean it is wrong for anyone to choose to believe the dealer when he says what he carries is the best - that's everyone's individual perogative. Just do so with eyes open.
Dealers should talk about what they carry because that is why they are in business for. Imagine if you walked into a bmw dealer and asked about audi? What do you think would happen?
It’s the same thing... I don’t think they are wrong for praising what they sell. It is the buyers responsibility to do their homework.
I also feel that they provide the opportunity for you all to hear the system before you buy it. I am the only mad man 😅 who buys blind folded but i think that is also starting to slowly change.
Absolutely. Hobby wouldn't exist without them and I always try to purchase locally at brick and mortar dealers because they make it possible to audition the equipment. Really glad to see them generally doing much better business since covid and for most part thriving again
Jay, I knew you were going to get the Taiko Extreme and called it out a few posts back. I agree...a good music server will transform your music and take it to another level When I got my Lampi Pacific, I was originally a little bit disappointed. I considered the Taiko but ended up going with Lucas Audio LDMS. My decision was based on 24/7 availability with Lucas. Once I added the LDMS, I was floored by how good my music sounded. Taiko is considered the king of the road and I trust you will not sell that component. It gets better with time. Enjoy.
Congrats Jay. That is a beautiful beast with unparalleled customer service.
Two quick cents, I know you will be getting dozens of cents (and I know you research heavily so ignore if you already know of course!)....
- Plug that beast directly into the wall, not a qbase, power conditioner etc. It thrives from juice, ideally on its own dedicated circuit.
- While there are 4 usb on the back, the best is the dedicated usb driver that you may have ordered (~1500 euro option), the fifth port. Not sure if you have that option.
- Interestingly, given your enjoyment of Odin 1 pcs, I actually prefer an Odin 1 pc versus an Odin 2 pc to the Extreme. fwiw in my system
Fantastic you will be interviewing Emile. He (and his team) are pushing the boundaries of digital playback. And it only promises to get better, as you know as they continue to improve the Extreme ecosystem.
I think that would be a question for WBF... just make sure you ask an actual user and not a dealer or distributor..I don't think many folks here roll with that caliber of gear although there might be exceptions i am sure.
The Taiko is awesome indeed, but the break-in is indeed painful. Some days i love what i hear and others not so much.
What do you think of the mighty Krell KRS-200 Reference Series? I think it is better than the Krell KAV. The KAV is good I just think the KRS is better sounding in the middle and highs. Both have great bass slam. I have also owned the mighty FPB-700 and the Evolution 402e as well as the EVO One. Some say the Evolution 600 and 900e was better than the Evolution one. I can't comment since I haven't own them. Hard to beat a high current Pure Class A Monoblock Amplifier. What are your thoughts? Also the Chord SPM-6000 was incredible as well. Please chime in.
I had a Krell evo 2250 which was a smaller version of the evo 402e. The 2250 was neutral, not like the warmer Krell KSA 50 I owned years before. Overall, Krell is warm for SS. I really liked the neutrality/clarity of the 2250, but I returned it when it quickly developed some high volume distortions, I read how Krell had reliability problems back then.
Do you all remember how a few months ago i had rated the Gryphon Essence as the second best amplifier from the Gryphon lineup? Well... stereophile just rated it as the best amplifier of 2021... My perception of this amp was SPOT ON and theirs seems to also align with me. If they had reviewed the Mephisto then I’m sure it would have won the best amp of 2021.
The level of exposure I’ve been through with regards to amplifiers has allowed me to easily identify when something is special. This is unfortunately something that is only developed with experience. Reading a magazine will never give you the full scoop of what an amplifier is capable of.
It’s important that you all communicate with people who have owned and lived with the component you are considering to buy. Forget reading opinions from those who simply read but don’t buy. I’m not saying that my opinion will be the same as yours but if i tell you something is special, you can bet that you will probably will be impressed by it 9 times out of 10.
I need to make a video today about what i am hearing with local files. WOW WOW WOW. I can’t believe the difference in sound quality between streaming and playing local files. I don’t even want to stream more music from Tidal or Qobuz.
Greyhound sent me a hard drive over a year ago and i have begun to slowly drop these files into the Taiko server and i just can not believe the sound quality.
And this year Stereophile's speaker of the year is Magico's A5, while last year's speaker of the year was Magico's M2...starting to see a pattern here.
strange WC. barely any gap between stored files and streaming here. Emile has closed it significantly. I am sure Emile will help. Definitely try ethernet cable directly into Extreme without switch if you haven’t already. Enjoy!
I had told Emile that there was barely any difference but then i returned 3 hours later and it was quite apparent i was wrong.
Mike at Suncoast audio also did this exercise and he also said the same thing. The gentleman who sold me the vac monos has Rockport Lyra, full Odin 2 cables, 4 chassis ch precision linestage and he said the difference is drastic. He was the one who told me to try to play local music and find out for myself and yep...he was correct
hmmm. It will be interesting to get Emile’s insights.
Many big league systems including Emile’s own, I believe, express the gap is very close. Of course it helps to have LPSs on modem router switches. etc. Could be network dependent. And as you say, the more resolving the system...
Jay - I have 7tb's of music files on my LDMS, which is a substantial library. I am also using Tidal and Quboz to find new artists. The music from my files is a big notch better than both streaming services. Live music is especially enjoyable.
Jay, I had somehow missed your post at 11-15-2021 @ 12:04pm, but am glad I read it. First off, I just want to say I'm very thankful for this thread and all you've shard over the years. Like you, I've been playing in this pond for a long time and part of your experiences are shared in that I heard some of the same gear and my impressions are often very similar to yours. I spent five years going to the Newport and LA Shows and visiting lots of dealers. I had a lot of fun doing that and one day I woke up to the fact there is NO "best". It is just about what you like (and can afford). Around that time I came across TAD and I was struck at just how much it was what I wanted. I write all this to say that it is a journey and learning how gear interacts and the work that is required to get a system to sing - all things you are so happy to share with us. While I like to live long term with my gear, I know I'm not completely done. I want to upgrade my Aurender N10 and keep working on my digital front end; the power cords, UpTone ER + Paul Hynes LPS, network cables, etc. have made it better, but I know it can be even better. And so I'm excited to see and hear about your journey with the Taiko, especially knowing you've have the W20 and W20SE.
So, like you, I too want to move forward and not stagnate. I look forward to where this thread, your YT channel, and all your other pursuits take you. I think that it is laudable that you want more for yourself, go get it! Good luck in whatever you do and blessings to you and your family this Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Those DSD files especially ,should be outstanding.
lots of DSD Jazz files, but many others as well, ENJOY !
i am so glad that you can now hear the difference in the High res files. 95% of all files on their are at least Cd quality.
CD quality” audio resolution uses a 16 bit word for each sample. The sample rate is 44.1 kHz. This is often described as simply “16/44.1k.” This translates into an analog dynamic range of approximately 96 dB, and an analog bandwidth of approximately 22 kHz
Another format for DSD editing is Digital eXtreme Definition (DXD), a PCM format with 24-bit resolution sampled at 352.8 kHz
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