My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
I posit that moving from an Oppo as a DAC to a DirectSteam is more than a tweak. As for the WW cables, they make about every other cable sound tame (very fast and brutally revealing) as long as they don’t make your ears bleed. I would not be surprised to read of you preferring other top cables after some time in the saddle with those.
i had a chance to get some cardas cables, but i am not quite sure yet. The issue with cables is that it is too difficult to get your money out if you end up not liking them. This is is why i am going to take my time choosing cables and perhaps working with dealers that allow me to demo cables in my own home.
Does Ayre still insist on using Cardas with their equipment at shows, stringreen? I was in the their room with Fremer (well, not "with" but at the same time, lol) at a RMAF right after the debut of their turntable and felt that those cables killed the sound of their equipment.
I know what that gear can do as I own some of it. Could not previously imagine Ayre gear sounding completely lifeless.
Again, I have not heard Cardas’ latest cables but frankly don’t care to.
good to read that you have settled on your gear , moving forward toward cabling. Considering the level and caliber of gear in your system, cabling, is imperative. Take your time in this process. Keep me posted on the brands that you audition and interactions on your gear. Happy Listening!
So far i have discovered that the cremonese sound FAR BUT FAR SUPERIOR when biwiring them using the xa200.5 monos. It is like they send you a level of information that is incredible. I am still playing with wire world silver eclipse and eclipse 7. The results are very good, but of course i don't really have anything else to compare it to. In terms of sound, i have never ever heard my set up sound this good. It is like someone gave me a new set of ears to be honest.
So the WhiteCrossMan opines that every Sonus Faber speaker below the $40K+ Il Cremonese sucks? One of the most respected loudspeaker manufacturers in the world produces ’crap’ if they can’t fetch $40K retail for their product? Really? That’s a suspect marketing strategy if true, not sure how effective that works in the real world. Business sense suggests just drop the entire product line below the Il Cremonese given its inherent lack of competitiveness. After all, throwing good money after bad never works, not as a consumer, certainly not as a manufacturer.
MY OPINION: having owned sonus Amati futura and Olympica 3s, they were the most lethargic, anemic and non dynamic speakers I've heard. I also heard the new sonus Amati tradition and they sound better than the other 2 models I mentioned. That said, the cremonese DEMOLISH and SQUASH all of the above. It's actually a laughing matter. Not even close in any category. The only other speaker that left me with an amazing impression was the Martin Logan 15a. I will say it again, in my opinion the best speaker for the money that sonus faber currently manufactures is the cremonese. I heard the Lilliums and they did not have the same attack and low end punch than the cremonese due to the upward firing woofer which relied on a low ceiling and the Aidas are the old sonus faber sound which is very laid back which is why they are getting ready to replace it with a new model.
They are the speakers that continue to blow me away and let’s not even go over their looks which remain unmatched in my opinion. I was ready to give up on sonus faber after trying the olímpicas and Amati futuras until I was told I needed to hear the cremonese and so I bought them and had an insane amount of uneasiness because I didn’t know how much I’d like them and well as soon as I played my first song through them, I was floored. They sound HUGE and soo detailed and clean sounding with an outstanding midrange. I love what they do for me and my listening preferences. I despise speakers that sound great with classical music and jazz or acoustic music but fall apart the moment you play some music with a beat and slam. Two examples of these speakers are magicos and rhaidos. I don’t need a huge speaker in my room that can’t handle my music choices and throw down music when I’m in the mood but also play with delicacy if the music calls for it. Once I brought the xa200.5s, it was even another layer of music that I can Hear through them. Speaking of the xa200.5s, I had a conversation with Kent over at pass labs and he said the 200.5s are even superior to the 160.8s. He said if we were to compare the 200.5s vs 200.8s, it comes down to your taste and what you love the most. One isn’t really better than be other. They just pass the music in a different way and it’s up to the listener at that point. Essentially what he said is that the 200.5s and 200.8s are too close in terms of sound quality and one isn’t better than the other. It’s really all about your equipment and taste.
I have the new Sonus Faber Amati Traditions and I absolutely love the sound. Prior to buying, I compared them to the Wilson Alexia / Magico S3 and S5 and liked the SF's better. I love the Cremonese but they were just a little to tall to pass the wife test.
SF speakers are very musical indeed. They are a sonic match for tubed and solid state gear, a matter of taste. Keep me posted as you massage cabling into your system. The brands that you have tried, brands that you want to try is all imperative. I like Wireworld as well- very fast. I have heard the silver eclipse 7 power cord, it is a killer. Happy Listening!
Hi guys, some of you have reached out to me asking for advice as far as equipment selection and set up based on your preference in terms of sound quality. Some of you love tons of detail, good vocals and don’t really need tremendous low end punch. Some others need more of a flat frequency range where no particular frequency gets boosted. I’ve also had questions about preamplifiers since I’ve owned quite a few as well throughout my journey. That said, I can almost pin point to brand names and equipment selection with my eyes closed because of the vast exposure I’ve had to massive amounts of high end gear which in turn allows me to get great deals on many high end brands. I have a great relationship with dealers from just about every single state due to My constant purchases from many of them. As a matter of fact I have a McIntosh MX160 procesos and the matching mc207 seven Channel amp that I received a few days ago and have not had a chance to set up plus a monster ati signature 6007 amp. I hope to share my thoughts on these sometime in the future with you all. In short, sometimes I don’t really write anything on certain pieces due to my lack of time. I have helped AND continue to help many of you who are either just getting started in this journey and want to make a proper purchase or also help those of you looking to just add more flavor to the sound that you currently have in your system. Either way, I can pretty much help just about anyone interested in making the right purchase. It’s my pleasure to help but as long as you are willing to listen to my recommendations. That said, I have bought the vast majority of my pieces of equipment completely blindfolded without ever even seeing the gear in person. You all need to realize that some of the gear I’ve owned you probably won’t find a dealer near you to demo it. Sometimes All you can do is read about it and inform yourself and hear my thoughts on it. I won’t ever recommend something I don’t have personal experience with. My recommendations will be based on what I’ve owned and if I feel it meets your requirements. If you want, You May continue to reach out to me directly if you have any questions or concerns about amps, preamps, etc, but be specific about what you are asking so I can be clear. I will continue to update this thread with my personal reviews and sharing more new things as I continue this journey. Who knows, maybe I end up doing a YouTube channel with my experiences and actually being to get paid by YouTube ! :) Thanks !
Fantastic thread! It's like watching/reading a weekly drama play out...LOL Ok so, could you possibly update the thread with your top 3-4 preamps and top 3-4 amps? It would definitely help me decide moving forward.
Hi guys, i love pass Labs amplifiers. That said, my set up will change drastically next week when I kiss goodbye my sonus fabers cremonese. These are indeed the best speakers I’ve owned hands down. Impressive is an understatement but unfortunately I have a 15 month old Babygirl that is starting to get curious and crawl and play close to these speakers and rather than having a bad thing happen, I decided to part ways with them. i will be going back to my second passion in terms of sound quality which are electrostatics. These are more durable and pose less risk of being damaged since the panels are so durable. Anyhow, I’m also parting ways with my pass labs xa200.5 Monos which are possibly the best amps I’ve owned in a long time. In short, I’ll be having new speakers, new amp, new preamp in about a week. I’m looking forward to this entire new set up which will be disclosed very soon. :)
Can’t maintain 2 threads. I prefer only one thread where people can follow my journey. Believe it or not, people still read this thread and message me asking for advice, etc. Starting a new thread will dimish the value of this thread that I’ve worked on for a very long time.
I am not looking forward to packing my 200.5s, but i will have to do so this weekend. Anyhow, i guess i will go ahead and share with you the new set up that i have carefully selected after doing major research and obviously not allowing myself to lose a lot of the "greatness" of the Cremonese speaker. Speakers: Martin Logan CLX ART (black gloss finish which is a $7,000 option) PS Audio BHK 300 monoblocks PS Audio BHK Signature Preamplifier Martin Logan BalancedForce 212 subwoofers (2 of these)
Having owned the Martin Logan Renaissance and truthfully loving them very much, i did not want to go back to them, but rather venture with the CLX art. I have called many trusted ears, asked many questions about the differences between the renaissance and CLX's and the answer keeps being the same: The CLX is just a better animal with bigger images, instrument separation, soundstage, space, width, etc and adding the dual subs to the mix will present an even larger soundstage with all the fullness needed in order to make a huge impact on the presentation. I also had 2 people tell me they preferred the CLX over the Neolith which is very surprising. I am not sure what to expect, but if the word is that the CLX is indeed better than the renaissance then it all points out to me having yet another impressive speaker pretty soon. I decided to revisit the BHK 300 monos because back when i had them, the matching preamp was not out yet. I now want to use the matching preamp in order to create even more synergy. I will have yet another review of the BHK monos. It appears that the amplifier journey will start all over again, but now i will venture into other brands such as Dan Agostino, Jeff Rowland, Belcanto Black System, maybe pass labs 200.8s? Stay tuned...
Excited for you for both of your adventures - your 15 year old babygirl and your audio gear. Nothing wrong at all with compromises - a great time to enjoy :-)
thanks Dave. I had to compromise a bit in order to get everything into place. I am having a good feeling about my new set up though and we will see what happens when it is all said and done. My speakers, subwoofers and preamplifier have shipped today so i should be receiving those next Tuesday- Wednesday. The BHK monos are all built to order so there is a 2 week waiting period for those. I look forward to setting it all up. I gotta be honest, i really wanted to keep my xa200s, but my connection needed them for a customer of his and in return he gave me a great deal on my gear so i guess the old saying "one hand washes the other" applied this time. Sometimes a few of my sources actually contact me because they may have a customer who is looking for something i might own and i am about helping those who help me. Done it many times for many of them which is why i am very thankful for all the relationships i have built throughout the past years. With that said, i will have the bhk mono 300s, audio research gs150 and krell 403e to power my CLX speakers so i am very curious to see what will sound best. I will be using the pass labs xp30 and the ps audio bhk preamp and i will try to do all sorts of changes and see what happens.
Have you ever ventured into tube amps? I have a Raven Integrated Reflection MK2 powering my SF Homage Amati Tradition that is outstanding. Love the Il Cremonese. Just a little to big.
I’ve owned McIntosh mc2301, MC275 mk6, PS Audio bhk300, audio research gs150. I’m quite familiar with their flavor but I also watch movies so I can’t be using a tube amp to watch movies and listen to music. Tubes are awesome but I think it’s for strictly 2 channel
"Can’t maintain 2 threads. I prefer only one thread where people can follow my journey." Agreed. I was stoked to see it active and will be following along.
Alright guys.. the xa200.5s depart tomorrow along with cremonese unless a pending sale happens before they leave. That said, I will be bringing the ps audio bhk300s with matching preamp and will compare against the luxman 900u amp 900U preamp (unless deal falls through). i will be doing a shootout between both companies. Who do you think will win ? The Japanese combo or the American ? This battle will be very interesting to say the least. The Clx speakers will certainly tell the story of which possesses the most detail, depth, detail, soundstage etc. Will 150 Japanese watts best the 300 American watts ? Will watts matter ? Here we go again... things are about to get started and I know some of you will stay put to see if tubes can Best excellent solid state engineering.
You are the 3rd vote for the Luxman that I have received.... nobody is voting for the PS Audio huh ? The clx art drop down to .7 ohms so we shall see...
Luxman hands down. PS Audio doesnt make TOTL anything. They are a "value" for the money company. Their CD players/Dacs/Amps cant compete with the big boys...and are priced accordingly. I can get their equipment for about 50% of the list price
I'm surprised, like others, at some of the brands you have overlooked in solid state, and one is Lamm (it only uses one small tube). Another would be Balanced Audio Technology. Have you ever considered these brands?
I love the PS Audio BHK stack, but I am under the belief that the BHK amps are not particularly happy with low impedance loads. You might want to check with PS Audio.
BHK 300 amps appear to have a damping factor of 100. THis might be a little low, if indeed the speakers dip to an impedance of 0.7 Ohms. On the other hand, the Luxman amp being tube based, might find itself in some similar marginal territory.
But... Only actual testing in situ can tell for sure.
Damping factor/slew rate; one of those things that can be measured but does not matter. When a designer is foolish enough to design for high damping factor, they accomplish it with high degrees of negative feedback/looping which in turn kills off any sense of "aliveness". This is a consumer driven market in which many consumers buy with their eyes (reading measurements) rather than buying with their ears.
Hi Sonicsmith, high damping factor designs being the bane of audiophiles is an urban legend... I have heard as many amps with high damping factors being utterly unmusical, as I have heard amazing music makers... My current amp belonging to the latter type.
Similarly, a low damping factor is but an alert to possible issues with speakers sporting very low or significantly erratic input impedances, but does not denote an absolute brickwall in supporting such speakers with elegance.
This is why only a substantial test in situ can determine if the BHK and/or the Luxman in question are synergistic with Camaross's new electrostatic speakers.
Besides... Electronics and speakers need to be broken in completely before a definitive evaluation can e made.
If you are serious about hearing Luxman's best sound, you should try the MQ-300 tube amp (assuming your speakers are efficient). Paired with the 900U preamp, the sound is MUCH better than with the 900U amp.
Guidocorona > high damping factor designs being the bane of audiophiles is an urban legend...
Blindjim > Hi G! Glad you’re still breathing. unmistakably. Too many factors rearrange the actual damping factor its incredible. Even the length of speaker wires! Frequency! Etc. Found this online about damping…. George L. Augspurger, James B. Lansing Sound Inc. Electronics World January 1967 Posted on Butler Audio site http://www.butleraudio.com/damping1.php
blindjim > you indicate a noticeable difference here, mind briefly expanding on it? Their usual cost diffs too if possible.
Also, thanks for such an involved journal on power amps, SS at least. As you have enjoyed some hybrids did you ever archive your impressions on them after rolling their tubes as well?
Ever consider similar Euro hybrid amps, or for that matter Euro SS amps at all?
Ypsalon Alias monos have really piqued my interest as did the PSA’s. a wide gulf separates them and I’m not talking about the water either. Moreover, $$$$ and designs. I suspect too, voices ought not be even close in terms of well, who knows, given you could buy two pr. Of the PSA’s for the price of one pr of Alias’?
The Alias’ now have a recently released update. Never could I justify buying them new… but as pre-owned maybe. Thanks so very much.
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