Endgame move is obviously getting XLR outputs on the Pacific. All the gain someone would need, plus better sound as it should be by experience.
That should seal the Ref10 coffin once and for all.
That should seal the Ref10 coffin once and for all.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
Hello whitecamaross, I own a Pass Labs X250.8 amp and Simaudio Moon Evolution P-8 preamp and was considering trading these and cash for Pass X350.8 and ARC REF 6 preamp and my dealer strongly recommended for same money to get the Luxman M-900u and C-900u. The few people that have heard the Luxman combo told me absolutely do it. You loved your Pass 250.8 like I do and your thread is too long for me to read the whole thing...lol but I read a lot of it. Can you you tell me what you think about making this change? Thanks for the time and all you do to share here with all of us. Thanks |
Lots of good information here on Lampizator tube rolling. https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/lampizator-valve-tube-rolling-review-thread.26478/ |
Hi WC, My system when its working consists of Oppo, Wadia15 DAC, self-built tube pre amp, ML23.5 power amp and OB speakers which I built using cheap 15" driver with concentrically mounted compression driver, efficiency at about 95dB. I say 'when its working' because the ML is now out of the system. I have recently moved country and am busy renovating my little Irish cottage, installing proper fireplace and attending to room treatments. @ron17 requested pics of the room but not only do I not know how to post a pic, the room actually looks like a construction site. When the living room is sorted out I will turn my attention to designing a crossover for a pair of Tannoy MG 15's which will be used OB with OB servo bass. Regarding the Wadia15 it uses the wonderful Burr-Brown PCM63 dac chip and only plays redbook but does it better than most. Anybody who needs a backup dac or for second system should consider any unit using the PCM63 or 1702. Completely and embarrassingly destroyed my Bryston dac |
Viber , A 300B has specific operating parameters (SPECS)... all the same regardless of manufacturer. It is usually an operating range of for example ...plate voltage , plate current .etc. It is the same for a 12AX7 etc, really any tube #. The tube number is the design and is usually developed by one company initially . Then other companies also manufacture it as time goes on. The different designs and implementations of them from the various manufacturers to achieve a tube within those specs, is what makes them sound different . |
Fsmithmack, I’ve said it in my thread several times, Pass labs is inferior to the luxman 900u series unless you are talking about the expensive xs series. Nelson pass is sitting in his home retired and collecting checks. I highly doubt he did anything for the .8 series. There’s zero comparison between pass labs 350.8 and the luxman 900u. The 900u makes the 350.8 sound broken in comparison. You are talking 2 different tier groups. They shouldn’t be in the same sentence. I’d take the 900u luxman amp one million times over the 350.8. Get yourself the luxman 900u and don’t look back. You’ll thank me and those who told to get it. |
I thank everyone who opened my eyes about the Lampi Pacific. I am looking for precision/accuracy, and with the KR300B, the Pacific may provide it. However, bigddesign3 said that the Lampi with its tubes may provide a good balance with SS amps, so I am wondering if that means it is still euphonic like most tube preamps, although much less, in the manner of ARC ref 6 rather than ref 10. A finished DAC product is a combination of an amplification stage plus the DAC chips or circuit. I am wondering how much of the difference in DAC products is from the differences in DAC's or the preamp stage. I suspect that the quality of the Pacific is mainly due to its preamp stage where tube rolling has a big effect. If the designer has chosen the KR300B tube for its precise sound, he may have designed the most accurate tube preamp as well, which is already included in the Pacific. A tube is a natural amplification device by virtue of its vacuum, rather than SS where electrons flow thru material. I believe that someone is capable of designing a tube circuit, using the right tubes, which gives the holy grail of both accuracy and naturalness, without the need to obtain an approximation of naturalness by injecting pleasant euphonics. Maybe the designer of the Pacific has achieved the holy grail. Are there any SS DAC's in a similar price range as the Pacific that have greater accuracy/precision? |
grey9hound, Thanks for your info about tube SPECS. So I guess that different designs and implementations use different materials, which have their "sound". Perhaps these materials have specs that conventional measurements don't reveal, in a manner similar to how amps with low distortion in certain parameters still have different sound. Also, Roger Modjeski found variations in those conventional specs due to random manufacturing quality control, so he grades tubes on the basis of the amounts of tolerances permitted. I wonder whether he grades KR300B's. Also, WC said that various tubes have different gain, but that is probably true of totally different tubes, but not for the same tube made by different manufacturers which would still have the same specs. In any case, the differences in gain would probably be much smaller than the 6 dB output difference from XLR vs RCA. In a related vein, this reminds me of how some manufacturers of tube and SS amps let the user adjust the bias to change the sound. Lower bias often makes the sound more detailed and dryer, higher bias makes the sound less detailed and warmer, from my reading. |
WC, Nelson Pass has stated that his philosophy is to design for a specific likable euphonic sound in mind. While there are differences, and it is possible that the xs series might be different from the usual euphonics, it is too expensive to find out, especially when you have the excellent Titan which probably beats any Pass. For your ultimate amp, you have the Block which is probably a keeper for a long time, so your money is tied up with that. |
@fsmithjack unless you really have power hungry speakers, I would keep the 250.8 and play around with pre amps and possibly DACs and sources if you are looking to change your sound. Many at Pass even think the 250.8 is the sweet spot of the lineup. Its a hell of a good amp. That said... speakers still make the biggest difference! |
Lets be objective here before we go too negative and this great forum turns to anther trolling disaster. I don’t think that latest .8 series of the pass can be characterized as euphonic. I heard 350.8, 250.8 and last thing I call them is to be euphonic. Yes the pass amps may be less refined than luxman 900u, but I personally in my home had luxman 509x, Gryphon Diablo 300 and pass int-250 and to my ears the pass int-250 is more musical, natural sounding than Luxman 509x, On higher volumes with my speakers (SF Amati tradition and Canton ref 3k) the luxman sounded strained and too hi fi with lack of decay on all frequencies. Pass sounded relaxed with great bass, mids and highs and much better soundstage and decay than luxman 509x. I can summarize it now that to me luxman 509x sounded like refined hifi device and pass sounded like music. The gryphon diablo 300 overall is better than pass int-250 (better dynamic swings and micro details) . Overall the Gryphon Diablo 300 was closer to life music than pass int-250. Even so some people may prefer liquidity of the pass (midrange) to gryphon. I re-read this thread and noticed that WC after he did not get a deal on pass XA-200.8 started to be very negative to pass labs that he praised before. |
Thanks - I ordered new speakers at Thanksgiving and should be delivered to me next week so I’m all set with speakers. I traded my Magico S5 Speakers for Magico S5 MK II version and I’m pretty excited. Also, my DAC/Server combo is fantastic as well. It’s the Bricasti Design M1 Special Edition w/Optional M12 Ethernet Media Player. I feed it via a custom SGC sonicTransport Roon Sever powered by the 2 Rail - Uptone Audio JS-2 Linear Power Supply via custom DC cables by Oyaide and my Network is driven by a Bespoke OCXO Ethernet Switch and Linear Power Supply from The Linear Technology company. I’ve been focus on delvoping and evolving my digital front end for years and this current set up is much better than all the Lumin, Auralic, Antipods Servers I’ve owned. I run full lool of Kubala-Sosna Emotion / Elation as well. I now and considering trading my Pass Labs X250.8 and Simaudio Moon Evolution P-8 preamp for Luxman C-900u preamp and M-900u Stereo Amp. I’ve owner a half dozen Pass amps and am a huge fan but I’m interested in pushing my system forward. I have spoke to people that have owned the X250.8 that have changed to the M-900u and both said it is a much better amp. It’s a lot more money also but from what I am hearing the combo is a legit top flight reference product that is much better then my current combo and trying to acquire as much feedback from people that have heard the amp. Dep14 Have you heard the Luxman? If you have you would be the first one to advise keeping the pass which is great but wanted to make sure it based on hearing the Luxman rather then appreciation for the Pass amp which I agree is great. it was recommended that I ask whitecamarross as I think he has owned both and want his advice as well. Thanks so much for the feedback. i appreciate it. |
@fsmithjack I have not heard the Luxman (I don’t give opinions on products I haven’t heard). I’m sure it’s good stuff. I have heard the 250.8 and 350.8. Obviously very close in character. One of the the great things I do find with pass, I’ve yet to hear it with any speaker and think it sounded anything less than good. Usually it sounds great. But, I tend to be more into listening to the music and like a live, big feel to it. I dont want to sit and analyze my system every moment. |
@lemonhaze Posting photos of your room is super easy. Take a few photos with your phone, go to the Virtual Systems page on Agon and create an account and follow the instructions. As far as your question to WCSS about a Plinius amp vs the Simaudio 860a amp I hope you don’t mind if I give my 2 cents. I owned the Plinius SB 301 mk2 about 2 years ago then sold it and bought a Simaudio 870a which I still own. I liked both amps a lot ...but they are very different sounding (at least they were in my system). The Plinius is more forward sounding than the Sim. Extremely powerful bass and the midrange and top end sounded ever so slightly exaggerated or tilted up (almost like a tone control tilt). The Sim sounds way more refined and coherent top to bottom. The Sim is very detailed and has an almost tube like mid and top end. When pushed hard the Sim does not change tonally but the Plinius gets a little shouty and in you face in the top end. If temperature is an issue the Plinius gets very warm although the Sim stays cool to very light warm. I like both of these amps very much but for me there was no contest. The Sim was better in every way, but I could see someone with very laid back speakers and components that needed a boast (so to speak) leaning toward the Plinius. If your system is well balanced and you could afford (almost 2 x’s the $ on the used market) the Sim would be the clear winner.....good luck! |
ron17, i concur with your assessment of the sb301mk2 vs simaudio. You are spot on with your analysis. denon1: the 200.8 pass labs did not come through, but that did not change my opinion on the .8 series line. My opinion is based on facts as opposed to what a magazine said. I have had both here, the 350.8 and luxman 900 and both connected at the same time. I think i know a thing or 2 about those 2 amps he is inquiring about. Lastly, you are comparing integrated units vs separate components. If you read his question, he is inquiring about the 900u pieces and not the 509x you are giving your opinion about. Let’s make sure we address questions exactly as presented and not formulating answers based on other models/components. 4425: Any pass lab owner that disliked my comment about the .8 series can easily come to my home and bring any .8 amp of their liking along with napkins to wipe tears off their face from the punishment that a pair of 900u amps would do. The .8 series needs to be discontinued and replaced with something better. The .5 series was always the better series no matter what the general public wants to believe. (PLEASE NOTE: My opinions do not include the xs series. Lets make that very clear) ONE MORE THING: My opinions are based on ACTUAL HANDS ON EXPERIENCE in my own space. |
@whitecamaross "ONE MORE THING: My opinions are based on ACTUAL HANDS ON EXPERIENCE in my own space." And therein lies the crux of the matter - excellent point WC. It'd be very nice if others would chime in with actual experience and leave out all the supposition. Implying that you can somehow read into a persons comments to provide advice to others is outlandish. There is absolutely no substitute for actual experience with gear. |
People talk about "tube-like" mids and highs. Does that imply relaxed with less analytical precision? It looks like the Lampi Pacific with KR300B tubes is on the precise side and less relaxed than with the KR PX4 tubes, according to the interesting article posted by grey9hound. So does the PX4 make the Lampi more tube-like? The ARC ref 10 may be considered more tube-like than the ref 6 because of its more relaxed, laid back and buttery (good word, WC) sound. So what does tube-like really mean if there are so many types of tube sound? |
| Post removed |
WC, All the tube products I mentioned have widely varying types of sound. Because of this, I think people need to be specific about sound character, rather than saying something is "tube-like." I believe the common perception of tubes is that they are mellow and laid back with that "magic." By this definition, you could say that the ref 10 is more tube-like than ref 6, the Lampi Pacific with the PX4 tube is more tube-like than with the 300B. But is the Pacifc with 300B still "tube-like" compared to SS DAC's such as the Ayre, or is the Pacific/300B more precise and upfront than the Ayre? Then that would made the Ayre more "tube-like" than the Pacific/300B. So, since there are tube products like ref 6 and Pacific/300B with upfront, sharp and snappy qualities, I think this common definition of "tube-like" should be scrapped in favor of more informative descriptions of sound. |
@viber6 When I was trying to help a fellow audiophile decide between 2 amps he was interested in (Plinius vs Simaudio) that I have owned recently, and used the term "The Sim is very detailed and has an almost tube like mid and top end". The key words are "ALMOST TUBE LIKE". I thought that term (without getting too wordy or technical) would best describe the sound of the midrange and top end. I guess I could have said the mid and top end are smooth, liquid, non fatiguing, easy on the ears....or possibly the mid and top end frequency range could be attenuated by a few db making it easier to listen to for long periods of time. I thought by simply saying "The Sim is very detailed and has an almost tube like mid and top end" would be descriptive enough to understand by most posters on this thread.....well except you I guess. Perhaps you should put together a list of adjectives and audiophile terms that we all can use on this thread. |
whitecamaross OP Thanks for your feedback. I owned the X350.5 for about a year and now own the X250.8 for last 3 months or so and like the X250.8 a little better. They are close but at lower/normal levels I find the 250.8 a little more dynamic and offers a little better control and the 350.5 was warmer but both are pretty warm. I am huge fan of Nelson's amps and the person. I got to know him a little over the years having him upgrade some of my First Watt amps and that sort of thing. Great guy... So please in your opinion you would go for the Luxman? Do you think I should go for the preamp also? My preamp is a product that really surprised me. It's an older ss preamp and when I bought it I was not thinking it was going to be best the preamp I have ever owned and better then Pass XP-30, ARC REF 5SE and others but the Simaudio Moon Evolution P-8 is an incredible preamp. It is the quietest and most dynamic with huge and laser focus sound stage with a sheen of warmth. I can sit here and tell anyone for the money this thing is a total giant killer. It is an older unit and sort of rare but man it is good. Now I assume the C-900u being new and more money should be better but wanted to see if anyone has heard it and more to the point to the two together? Would love to hear from anyone that heard the combo? Do you think the Luxman amp will have enough power for my Magico S5 MK II Speakers? I def cannot afford to buy 2 as mono's. The Lux combo is a big stretch money wise as it is? I am not a loud listener. I listen to normal levels and sometimes a bit louder but not into real loud music except at very rare times and then it is for a short time only. I would love your thoughts on the Lux combo to go with my new speakers. I think I am going to go for it if the power will be enough for my speakers which I am pretty sure it is but again just trying to get all the info I can before pulling the trigger? Here is a quick copy and paste of my virtual system for reference and a couple pics if it helps to see what the Luxmans will be paired with. Thanks Associated Equipment: * Loudspeakers: Magico S5 MK II Speakers MCast Pewter * Preamplification: Preamplifier: Simaudio Moon Evolution P-8 Reference, Antique Sound Labs AQ-2004DT Tube Linestage Phonostage: Sutherland Engineering Duo Phonostage. * Power Amplifiers: Pass Labs X250.8 Stereo Amplifier * Digital: DAC: Bricasti Design M1 Special Edition DAC; Digital Transport: Bricasti M12 Built In Ethernet Network Player, Re-Clocker: Wyred 4 Sound C Remedy Femto (for cable box - huge upgrade) USB: Uptone Audio ISO Regen (for USB attached network HDD) * Power Supplies: Power Supplies: Uptone Audio JS-2 (2-Rail) Linear Power Supply, (powers SGC sonicTransport and Version Fios Router) The Linear Solution LPS-912 Linear Power Supply (Powers OCXO Switch), Breeze Audio 12v Linear Power Supply (2-units, powers WFS Remedy and HDD), iFi Audio iPower 9V DC Power Supply. * Audio Network Server Hardware/Software: Servers: Small Green Computer SonicTransport Roon server via Sonic Orbiter 2.7 power the JS-2. PC: Qotom 190S Dual Port - Baytrail J1900 12v Micro-PC, Storage: WD My Cloud 12v 2TB NAS, Network Switch: The Linear Solution OCXO Audiophile Switch, Audio Software: Sonic Orbiter 2.7, Roon 1.6, Windows 10 Pro, Audiophil Optimizer, Fidelizer 8.0 Pro, JPlay, JRiver MC23, * Analogue: Turntable: Rega Planer 8 & Neo PSU, Tonearm: Rega RB880 Tonearm, Cartridge: Rega Apheta 2 MC, * Cables: Interconnect Cables: Kubala-Sosna Research Emotion XLR 2.0M, Kubala-Sosna Research Emotion XLR 1.5M, Darwin Ascension RCA 0.5M, Audioquest Fire RCA 1.0M, Speaker Cables: Kubala-Sosna Research Emotion 2.5M Spades, AC Cables : Kubala-Sosna Emotion 2M (2-cables),Kubala-Sosna Elation 1.5M, Audience AU24se LP 1.0M (2-cables), Audience AU24se MP 1.0M, Audioquest Tornado 1.0M, Zu Event MKI (3 cables), Zu Mission 2.0M, DC Cables: Gent Audio Custom DC Cables (Canare/Oyaide) (6), USB: Audiocadabra Ultimus3 Double-Headed Solid-Silver USB Cable, Curious Cables 200m Regen link, Uptone Audio USPCB A/B Adapter, Digital: Black Cat Silverstar 75 BNC/RCA, MIT Terminator-3 RCA, DH Labs Silver Sonic D-75 RCA (2), Tara Labs Prism 100dx-1 Tosilink, HDMI: AudioQuest Chocolate 1.0M, AudioQuest Forest 3.0M, Ethernet: AudioQuest Vodka RJ/E 1.0M, AudioQuest Forest RJ/E 1.0 (2), Cardas Clear RJ/E 0.5M, The Linear Solution Reference RJ/E 1.5M. * Sundries / Accessories: Solid Tech Hybrid 3 Shelve Audio Racks (2 of these) w/White Shelves and Silver Pillars, Solid Tech Rack of Silence Reference Amplifier Stand, SRA Ohio Class Isolation Platform, Symposium Acoustics Svelte Plus Isolation Platform, Isoacoustic Iso-pucks (12), Red Dragon Audio Ceramic Cable Elevators (4), EdenSound Brass Vibration Weights (8), Bright Star IsoNode Footers, DROK USB Multi-meter/Tester, Audioquest Niagara 1000 AC Conditioner, PS Audio Noise Harvesters (6), PS Audio Juice bar MKII, Furutech GTX (R) outlet, Oyaide R1 Beryllium AC Wall outlets (2) ; Blue Circle Audio The Yalu Balula (Passive Room/System Protection) (3) https://flic.kr/p/2cgEyrQ https://flic.kr/p/2bZ2Bpz https://flic.kr/p/2cgEy9f https://flic.kr/p/2dnDTRM https://flic.kr/p/2aB4VJm |
fsmithjack , I went from an x250.5 to the xa60.8 and was extremely happy. I'd still have the xas if I didn't have to downsize. Have you tried the xa? |
I'll chime in a bit as to the performance of the Luxman 900U. The 900u paired with Sim Audio 330 and then a pair of 400M monoblocks had far less synergy than the ARC 5SE paired with the SIM amps. It wasn't even close. This supports WC's recommendation that the 900U should not be expected to perform at a high level UNLESS it is connected to a 900M. |
@viper6, Since your expertise is so much more voluminous and well informed than the rest of us mere mortals, perhaps you can talk in terms of the differences in tonal characteristics of a mid 60’s rosewood vs maple necked Stratocaster informed by the differences of late 70’s models. Or maybe it would be more informative to use references Marshal JMP vs JCM stacks with greenbacks vs. JBL cabines. Or perhaps you should use the differences of various named Stradivarius violins. Or Chicago’s Symphony Hall vs. Atlanta Symphony Hall... Or even be able to write about your first hand experience of the growth in Audio Research from their early SP 3, SP 6 up through current Reference models. I’m pretty sure there are people on this thread that could have a first hand discussion on any or all of these variances since they have experienced them first hand. But that doesn’t mean that expertise suggests they should dominate this thread. It is true you have some knowledge and experience. But that is the case of many of us. Few of us feel a need to insert our opinions on many of the posts even though most of us have opinions that either agree or disagree with most. This is WC’s journey and he has been kind enough to share it with us. If you feel you have a journey worth sharing, please start your own, either people will find it interesting, or not. My guess is that you would receive far less animosity and simultaneously far more respect if you cut your posts by 80 or 90%. Perhaps save up a day or two of posts and then ask yourself which 1 best contributes to the conversation, then delete the rest or save them for your new formum. You are not the only “serial” poster and perhaps others will recognize themselves. But I suspect others share my opinion that WC’s journey is what we are here for. Many others have contributions that can inform or amplify his journey. This is not about our respect for you. It is about our respect for WC and the general community. Please consider restraining yourself and exercising respect for the rest of us. |
ron17, Yes, to me your following description is the most informative--"the mid and top end are smooth, liquid, non fatiguing, easy on the ears." Summary translation by me--the HF are attenuated compared to other products. Both your description and my translation are specific, objective statements that are useful to listeners of all tastes. I assume that they describe your perception of the Sim. Then, for a reasonable description of the Plinius, "the mid and top end freq range could be attenuated by a few dB making it easier to listen to for long periods of time." This, plus your earlier description of the Plinius as "more forward sounding than the Sim. Extremely powerful bass...midrange and top end sounded ever so slightly exaggerated or tilted up (almost like a tone control tilt)," deliver the most useful, objective information. WC also praised the accuracy of your perceptions of the Plinius and Sim. But saying that something is "tube-like" is very murky by comparison, especially since there may be a few tube pieces that are NOT "easy on the ears, smooth, nonfatiguing, etc." So my question about the Lampi Pacific with KR300B tubes is, "is it still tube-like (excuse the expression) in the sense that it is relatively easy on the ears, smooth and relaxed and such, compared to the top SS DAC's out there?" |
psnyder149"Since your expertise is so much more voluminous and well informed than the rest of us mere mortals, perhaps you can talk in terms of the differences in tonal characteristics of a mid 60’s rosewood vs maple necked Stratocaster informed by the differences of late 70’s models. Or maybe it would be more informative to use references Marshal JMP vs JCM stacks with greenbacks vs. JBL cabines."
These references are to devices used in the creation of music that is not the goal, function, or purpose of this forum which is about music reproduction systems and the components, cables, and ancillary equipment necessary to build such a system it is evident, apparent, and obvious that you are in the wrong place and/or are otherwise confused, disoriented or misinformed . |
psnyder149, My posts have been useful to WC. He has also clarified his descriptions in response to my questions, which many people on this thread have found useful. Furthermore, this thread IS about respect for EVERYONE who contributes. Don't use inflammatory language like "you don't know what you are talking about." Just state your observations as factually and objectively clearly as possible. |
@fsmithjack i can say to you that the luxman will drive the Magico S5 Mk2 which by the way i have also owned. I have owned those components you are about to bring into your home. i am not speaking from a write up written by stereophile magazine. A single luman 900u will work fine and give you a lot of hours of enjoyment, but it won't honor everything the S5 mk2 can give you. You need to scroll back a few pages and read my impressions of the magicos. You need POWER with them and they will reward you. As far as preamps, if you don't own the ref10, then you need to go with the luxman 900 preamp. This preamp brings the most out of the 900u amp. However, i have not heard your preamp so i can't comment on how it will do with the 900u amp but i am assuming it should be a good match. I do not think i have met anyone here who has been unhappy with the 900u amp unless they are playing with a mcintosh preamp, plinius preamp,etc and doing all sorts of crazy matches that i know factually would make that amp sound inferior. From experience, stick with the 900u combo and add another mono 900u down the road. It will massively improve your experience. |
Viber6, Where in my post did I say that “you don’t know what you are talking about”? I did not. What I said is that we all have a certain level of expertise and that we all (or perhaps-nearly all) have opinions. Most of us moderate what we post in the hopes that it contributes positively to WC’s thread. Over recent days, you are contributing around 20% of the posts, often admitting you have no specific experience with the equipment you are making. I suggested that since you feel you have so much to contribute, it would be most helpful for you to start your own thread and pare down your contribution to the most meaningful and insightful ideas on WC’s thread. Stated as clearly as possible... Please start your own thread and post as much as you would like. As a member of this community, please consider posting far less. |
| Post removed |
@viber6 I understand what you are saying it's just I think you are being nit-picky. We all have heard/used the term 'sounds more like SS or more tube like' to describe the sound of a component and most of us completely understand what that generally means without completely dissecting the terminology. The following is an excerpt from a review in SoundStage written by Doug Schneider comparing the Simaudio 870a with 3 other amps. Another characteristic of the 870A is something I now consider to be a hallmark of Simaudio’s top integrated and power amplifiers, as I’ve heard it in every such model I’ve reviewed: an ultraclean sound combined with a subtle richness, fullness, and sweetness in the top frequencies of the audioband that’s quite unlike the sound of any other solid-state amp I’ve heard, including the three discussed in the foregoing paragraph. For me, golden is the word that best describes this characteristic, which sounded not unlike the top-end smoothness and richness of a great tube amp. This quality revealed itself readily with recorded cymbals. For example, 42 seconds into “Within,” from a high-resolution version of Daft Punk’s Random Access Memories (24-bit/88.2kHz FLAC, Columbia/Édition Studio Masters), cymbals begin to be lightly struck. Through the 870A, the golden tone at the top gave the cymbals real weight, with the authentic sound of wood on metal. He goes on to say.I wouldn’t describe the 870A’s midrange as being as “golden” or “tube-like” as its topmost frequencies, but it was still subtly richer and warmer than all but the Ayre VX-5 (and Ayre’s more expensive VX-R, which I reviewed almost two years ago). As a result, voices had enough body, texture, and weight to sound authentic and real, as opposed to the thin, lifeless sound that many associate with solid-state amplification. Petra Magoni’s silky voice on Musica Nuda’s self-titled debut album (16/44.1 FLAC, BHM) was rendered with absolute purity, and just the right amount of presence to give it realism. Willie Nelson’s voice is usually quite close-miked on his recordings -- it tends to sound full, present, and rich no matter what kind of system you use -- yet even with a hi-rez rig, he can still sound dry if the electronics lean that way, as I’ve heard in my house with various amps. But through the 870A, Nelson’s voice throughout his new album of duets, To All the Girls . . . (16/44.1 FLAC, Columbia/Legacy), had the fullness and presence inherent in the recording, along with the subtle richness and warmth that’s inherent in the 870A’s sound, which made it sound nothing short of spectacular. If you think that all solid-state amps sound inherently lean, listen to the 870A -- it’ll likely change your mind. In Doug's review he uses terms like ultraclean, subtle richness, fullness, sweetness, golden tone, tube-like, warmer, thin, lifeless sound that many associate with solid-state amplification and so on.....Again he states "I wouldn’t describe the 870A’s midrange as being as “golden” or “tube-like” as its topmost frequencies, but it was still subtly richer and warmer than all but the Ayre VX-5 (and Ayre’s more expensive VX-R, which I reviewed almost two years ago). As a result, voices had enough body, texture, and weight to sound authentic and real, as opposed to the thin, lifeless sound that many associate with solid-state amplification."........Here Doug uses the term golden and tube-like to describe the top end and richer and warmer to describe the midrange. I think my description of the Sim in my system being "almost tube-like in the mid and top end" isn't that far off of this reviewers description of the same amp. I really don't think nit-picking the way posters describe the way they think a component sounded in there system is beneficial to anyone in this thread. |
i have a C-900u driving wilson speakers with an ARC Ref 75se. It’s awesome. however i think so highly of this preamp that i ordered an M-900u. the preamp is refined and colorless with great texture. i would not call it warm but rather neutral AND rich. it really is extraordinary. i actually can’t imagine a good amp that wouldn’t work well with it. if the combo doesn’t sound very good it’s the amp. i think using a less than neutral preamp is not the way to build a system. fwiw i’ve used the C-900u with rowland and agostino to great effect. i also preferred this preamp to the ML 523, the latest dartzeel and the rowland corus. imo |
ron17, OK, I agree that in a few words, your description is similar to that of Doug Schneider. Of course, he is getting paid and is getting name recognition and reputation for his more detailed description, and it is a great example of what I mean by an informative review. It is true that he summarizes the details of his descriptions by using the term, "tube-like" which has the same meaning understood by most people. My goal is to find equipment that is most revealing, precise and crystal clear. I have an open mind as to any device that can do it, be it triode, pentode, bipolar, MOSFET, J-FET, conventional bandwidth or GaN. Surely there is tube equipment with these characteristics. Therefore, to refer to typical tube sound is just as indefinite as referring to typical SS sound, since there is plenty of SS stuff that sounds soft, warm, rich, etc. |
Guys - thanks for the help with the Luxman combo. Part of me is thinking to try the amp first because I just love my Simaudio Moon Evolution P-8 preamp and I am sure I can do this but the other parts thinks to just get them both and be done with it. The only thing that is bummer for me is I know how I am. I will be chasing that 2nd M-900u mono-block prob 15 minutes after I set everything up...lol Why does this hobby do that to us... lol Thanks guys - also thinking about another go at vinyl and have a great offer in a La Platine Verdier turntable? Anyone ever hear one of these bad boy turntables?? They have been making them since forever but my dealer says they will make your eye's water but I have never heard one myself. https://www.flickr.com/gp/35630112@N05/x45MTX https://www.flickr.com/gp/35630112@N05/JHy95Y Great thread and thanks for the help and feedback. |
psynder149, Sorry for the confusion, because you're right that you didn't say, "you don't know what you are talking about." I said that as general advice for others to avoid saying things like that. It is true what you said that my comments about violins and concert halls don't directly relate to amps, but they were meant to explain in more detail about sonic characteristics by making useful analogies that some people may understand from their experience. WC does the same thing when he talks about high performance cars, food and liquor, and high maintenance women, which give color and help to better explain his findings about his equipment. |
fsmithjack, I don't know anything about this turntable, but my vast experience with many TT's such as AR, Denon 6000, Linn Sondek, SOTA Sapphire, Win Labs belt and direct drive, Goldmund Studio, plus so many tonearms, cartridges, phono stages, stepup transformers, may help. These are all complex systems where synergy is important, so the only way to judge is to listen. If you have the same recording on LP and CD and you are familiar with your own and/or the dealer's reference phono system and CD/DAC, you can listen and decide. Too bad cartridges are not returnable, so this is one reason why many have given up on phono. If you want precision and detail, the Rega 10 with Apheta 2 cartridge for $6600. is a great package, reasonably priced. |
@fsmithjack -- Verdier are certainly very nice tables but they are far from easy to set up if you are not experienced in the black art of TT setup -- especially with the stand alone motor and thread arrangement. As you can tell from the photos they need a good amount of room and the simple act of setting up/tying the thread and getting it to run correctly will take some work - will the seller set this up for you? Also if that is the specific table you are considering the Wand+ arm installed on it, while an excellent value for the cost, is not up to the quality of the table and you will no doubt be looking for something different soon (I owned this arm in the past and liked it, but like the Verdier it is itself a bit tweaky and will take some experience to get all it is capable of) Finally you should be aware that there have been fake Verdier's (http://www.jcverdier.com/ADSL/platineV.html) -- no reason to believe that the photos show such (in fact from the photos it all seems kosher) but you should get provenance and all paperwork. The next article in the link above is I believe a review of exactly the table you are considering so well worth a close read |
| Post removed |
folkfreak and viber6 Thanks so much! I am no expert at all with turntable set up so this may not be a good idea but I so want to have a really good sounding turntable. Just a few weeks ago I bought the new Rega Planer 8 turntable with Apheta 2 cart and Sutherland Engineering phonostage and sold it all because it wasn't even close to my Bricasti M1SE. For the Verdier he offered my the choice of black on black 12" Schick arm or an AMG arm or the Wand arm with a mounted Ortofon Winfeld Ti MC cart? I am not familiar with any of these? Any arm you prefer? If I got the best of these arms and this cart with this TT could it compete with my Bricasti? My Bricasti destroyed the Rega? Thanks so much! |
Wesc, I bought the McIntosh mx160 and c2600 in order to do what some have said to me before which was to incorporate room correction so the mx160 will do that for me. I plan to use it as a preamp and run the room correction and see what results I get. Soon after that experiment is done, I’ll try the c2600 so I can give a mainstream tube preamp a run here. Yes guys, these pieces are for those of you who wanted me to try “cheaper” components and give my input on them. I’ve never owned the c2600 but I owned the c2500 and tbe mx160 before. Let’s see how they do now with the block audios and the Neoliths. :) Now, can we all get along and continue to ride together? I’m trying to throw curveballs here by getting gear that you all didn’t expect me to get and it is Mainly so that nobody feels left out here. Let’s keep rolling... |
That is a cool acquisition in the C2600. Mine is the solid state C47, the 2600 is said to be warmer and more euphonic.. That beeing said , the built in dac is what surprised me the most. It made me sell my 8k dedicated dac, and simplified my system. ( also, I upgraded the internal power supply fuse. ) The dac module is a miniatured Wadia DI322 variant, using the famous ESS Sabre 9018 we see everywhere. I am really looking foward to read you about it. Especially if you try the internal dac, usb wired. I think you will be impressed considering the low cost of this piece, but the Lampi Pacific should be better I concur. Don’t hesitate to boost the treble on the pre, or else it can sound a bit anemic on warm speakers. |
psnyder, just wanted to mention that I could not agree with your posts more. And I also hope that you realize that clearthink is a caustic entity who like many of his hilt will soon grow tired of having no supporters interested in his audiophile journey and will drift away and no one will even notice he is gone. |
@fsmithjack The combination of the Schick 12 on the Verdier would be a classic, especially with a copacetic cartridge such as a Miyajima however this will sound absolutely nothing like your digital setup. Do you already own several thousand LPs or have an interest in material that is only available on vinyl? Do you also have the real estate for a table like the Verdier, it demands a decent isolation stand, and of course you’ll need a correspondingly strong phono stage (think $5k and up say)? The road to vinyl nirvana is long and difficult 😏 I guess what I’m saying is that I’m at a loss to understand why you are going down this route instead of continuing to invest in the digital path you already prefer. If you check my system you can see that I have a pretty decent vinyl and corresponding digital setup and while I prefer the sound of the former I’d be more than happy with my DCS system if I didn’t own a thousand LPs and have an interest in mono classical and first pressing Islands. please feel free to DM me to continue this conversation as I’m not sure the “amp of the day” crowd really want us messing up their thread |
