My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by jetter

One cannot but notice that Ebm has whitecamaross holy grail of amps.

Time to kick ass and take names!

Wish I did
viber6, IMHO you really need to at least be using a good pair of headphones plugged into your computer.
@shannere +++++++3

@ricevs
What is "unwanted" by some is "appreciated" by others.
Yes, I am sure they are appreciated by viber. Honestly, on this planet you two and a couple of others come off as out of control envious of WC. Do you actually think that your contributions to this thread can be considered contributions?  Why is it that in all these years neither of you has started one thread. Rhetorical question, its because you are rightly worried that no one would care enough to post to it?
Two of the more confusing naming conventions:
Lux 509 is more powerful watts wise than Lux 590
Parasound A21 is more powerful watts wise than Parasound A23
Hi gallus, I'm with you on the class A versus class AB.  Never the less I am programmed to think bigger number = more watts.  Hope all is well in your neck of the woods.

I have a pair of Goertz Alpha Core speaker cables, and to quote Almarg from 2012
Their ultra-low inductance is achieved at the expense of ultra-high capacitance, and if a Zobel network is not used that can cause some amplifiers to oscillate, and possibly fry.
Which is what I thought was happening to your amp.  Without going back and rereading what you wrote previously, I believe you said it was only impacting the sound from one speaker which is confusing.

Check with your experts, but AFAIK you would only need to add a set of Zobel networks to your speaker terminals to cure your problem, if you like the offending speaker cables, the same as with the Alpha Cores.  It use to be easy to pick up a pair of the Zobels from Geortz for a few bucks, of course no longer.  You may have to have a pair made which I expect would be inexpensive, and plans are on the web.



The better and more resolving the system, the easier it is to listen to it at low levels.
Without having ever really made a comparison, I would have guessed that a more resolving system would sound somewhat thin at low listening levels. 




@riaa_awards_collectors_on_facebook
So the XA-25 is at the bottom of my 7 amp pile. Why on earth would I feel compelled to use it? Im sure its great bang for the buck for people that are financially challenged. You are more than welcome to it. It was used for 4 months by the prior owner.
Yep, you found it. I can easily afford whatever I want, but was inquiring why you would not have the curiosity to hook up what was an extraordinarily well received amp. I am also from the Northeast.
@grey9hound
riaa,
I think when people look up the definition of Curmudgeon, there is a picture of YOU
But ,I am sure that you already knew that .
Isn’t that the truth. I was once interested in a Pass XA25 and inquired with RIAA why he hadn’t tried his. He came on like a, well, I just deleted what I wrote or the moderators would have..


Riaa, it's all good.  From reading between the lines of the glowing reviews (especially Teajay's), it seems the amp punches way above its price point in sound quality.

The reason I asked you about trying it is I would love to have one and was curious, but I have not jumped in as I am not sure it would have enough juice to power my 87db 6 ohm speakers.  I think that these specs were exaggerated and I like my decibels.

Stay well.
Just to mention, I wish I had a set up where preamp and amp change overs was easy.  As it is, I have about one foot to get behind the equipment rack and if I make a small mistake, step on the wrong cable, things can come tumbling down.  Just the way it is.
cleeds, you are right, on this thread, and on any past and future posts.  There now.

Stay well
My apologies, in the interest of keeping the peace and this thread, I am deleting my posts. Sorry moderators, this is a fantastic thread.
roxy, I interpret what wc is saying is that if a component does not sound well on high quality but not exorbitant cables and wires its not for him, and that he does not buy into the total tweakology mentality.  
Or he joined the dark side, and bought a Sony Walkman.  Only one cable for the headphones.  Am I subtle or what?
viber, its customary when you are interested in discussing a subject not directly relating to the thread to start your own.  Especially so when your posts are longer than 5 or 6 of the ops.
People out of work wondering how they will pay their mortgages or rent or if they will be out on the street.  Hoping they can feed their families.

I hope they and many others can reopen soon.
Hi viber6, somewhere along the line you developed the mistaken notion that many of us give a fk what you think.  If you want to learn anything about the Tekton there is long thread. 

I even enjoyed your contributions until you jumped all over grey9hound above, implying, if not outright stating that his speakers are garbage.


Actually, if you peruse WCs first post you will find that it is his second time around with the BHK monos, perhaps this is an updated version?
viber, why don’t you start our own thread rather than horning in on WCs? You write more than he does.
RIAA, been busy and just noticed your Harvey Mudd reference.  Live long and prosper brother.
theothergreg, respectfully submitted, I think you are missing the point, it is not dguitarnuts contributions versus lack of contributions that are the issue (not sure why you would be keeping track).  The point is that those of us who would find viber6's post interesting are stunned by his being so dense as to not realize that, as others have bluntly stated, he is "crashing" WC thread and should start his own.  

viber6, I don't really care what theothergreg thinks and less you.  Why don't you take WC's request and purchase the element 118s and post your review here?

Its clear you are so craving attention that your sidetracking WCs thread instead of starting your own?.  You don't happen to also post under Bo1972 also?

I have always and still enjoy guido's posts.  techno dude, respectfully speaking, we are not snowflakes.  
Viber said RE: RIAA "Compared to you, my analyses are in-depth and objective, without inappropriate personal attacks which only serve to take away from the validity of whatever is said."

No Viber, your analyses are only written to draw attention being given to WC because his quest is a ton of fun to follow and to direct that attention onto your tired, repetitious and attention starved ego. How much more polite can it be said, start your own thread and give your opinions to those who are interested and want to learn from them.
Viber says "Several people here appreciate and enjoy my posts, even if you no longer do. I am not here to please you. Get used to that, although when you make sense, I will give you credit."

Per the quote above, and as I said in my first post months ago, start your own thread for your fans who do appreciate your equipment knowledge and opinions so you can show your followers the path to audio bliss, instead of sticking around here criticizing WC and everyone else’s equipment choices..

If your posts were only a couple of sentences long, that would be one thing.  But they go on forever.
Really enjoy your thread Whitecamaross.  I also have noticed how well you handle the static that arises from time to time.
 "I never said it was wrong or that I had a problem with it .. ..... Absolutely nothing wrong with what he is doing."

It is not clear to us casual readers what has given you the idea that anyone cares what you think about WC one way or the other. He is the man. 

Sorry grey, but WC is the OP, and of one very interesting, very popular thread. A thread with very little of the bickering that has been seen on others here lately.  You appear to be willing to say anything to try to share in WCs spotlight.  When your contribution doesn't get you enough attention you get downright nasty, throwing in Viber's name a couple of times is icing on the cake.  I am not a sensitive person, if you don't see this its on you friend.  This is you.

"He can’t make money on those Viber. He has to buy them cheap and sell for a profit or he won’t do it  It is really what it is all about for him. If you look at all of the recommendations that he is not interested in , it is obvious. That is why he doesn’t know what tubes he has in his REF10 .It is also why he won’t give us a Demo song-list.. It is all about the money and the profit, not really the product."
and
"WCSS, I am not being bitter, I am just calling it like i see it .
There have been many great used products or recommendations by many people , that you pass on. I am just saying that you pass because you can't turn a profit . From what I have seen , if you can't come out making money ,you won' but it . I am not bitter. i wasn't referring to any particular equipment that Viber6 mentioned . They were several .Yes, you have every right to do what you want. just like i have the right to state my opinion."
 
WC has politely ignored you, you should learn from this.


Grey, almost end of story, one last comment and then lets put this puppy to bed.  No ones feelings have been hurt, including yours, but I think that your having the need to provide negative interpretations of WC's motives where after 400K views and 5K posts no one else has is telling.

Per above you mention "I said WCSS won’t buy anything he cannot make money on."  There is no other way to interpret this sentence except that WC's fun adventure is fatally flawed because it is driven by a profit motive, although several persons who have actually dealt with him went to the effort of writing on here that the statement is not true.  There is a big difference between wanting to make a profit and not wanting to lose a ton of money on the ultra expensive gear he cycles through.  Ok, I am done on this subject.  On another note, Happy New Year to you and everyone.

viber6 posted12-09-2018 12:52pmOK, my book here is now ending, except I will occasionally offer a brief thanks to anyone presenting interesting info in a dignified manner. I apologize if I have offended anyone disagreeing with me, but even in those cases valid points were made. I have learned from all of you, and I wish everyone well on their own personal audio journeys. For anyone who wishes to communicate with me, I welcome your emails, russlaud at gmail. I won’t post anywhere else. Thanks and good luck.

No judgment, but Mr. viber, you really are proving to be a talking head, for better or for worse.
psnyder, just wanted to mention that I could not agree with your posts more. And I also hope that you realize that clearthink is a caustic entity who like many of his hilt will soon grow tired of having no supporters interested in his audiophile journey and will drift away and no one will even notice he is gone.
WC, of all the preamp/amp combinations you have used, do you mind providing your opinion which do you think would be best for fsmithjack within his preferred price range? Of course you can't know his room and sonic preferences, but it would be interesting to know, this is assuming you have a general familiarity with his new speakers.
hi techno, not quite sure why you think we might care what "A guy on whats best" thinks and his "obvious conclusion". There are as many opinion as there are as*holes. We are here for WC’s opinions and many of the others given have been a distraction..
In my sheltered life I never realized there were power cables that expensive until I just googled them. Are the Odin 2’s the most expensive power cable there is?

I realize WC has the Odin (not 2's).
tecno, in the past you have mentioned you are not a pro reviewer.  How do you have such a vast knowledge of so much gear?
Hi techno, I posted the question below yesterday but you did not respond to it.  You have been a direct contributor to this thread.  It is only natural when someone contributes as much as you have that those reading your posts want to learn of your knowledge base.  I repeat my earlier post:

"techno, in the past you have mentioned you are not a pro reviewer. How do you have such a vast knowledge of so much gear?"

Thanks
I actually got a ride with James Taylor hitch hiking on Martha’s Vineyard ages ago. Not a big deal, he/his family had a place there.  Back in those days hitch hikng was fairly common, especially on the Vineyard where it cost a fortune to bring a car onto the ferry.
Hi ron, what a fascinating story regarding your Classe, not the least of which is that they were able to diagnose the problem from the onboard computer and they had a Japan fix.
viber, your discussion on RF is really very interesting.  Please start your own thread on it so we can all join you and dig into this topic.
There is too much to go back and reread, but I was wondering if you had considered or tried Sanders ESL monoblocks?  I haven't heard them but seems they could be a natural fit.  I realize they are far less expensive than a lot of the amps you have been using.
viber, you have 38 pages of posts, all on this thread, its kind of spooky. From above you have admirers, why not start your own thread where you can be the star.  I'll read it.
Thanks jafox, I see your point.  What I meant to say was that there is a sound that has been recorded, and maybe both units are replaying that sound exactly as it was recorded, so the playback is identical by necessity.