Music Server Advice

Just found this thread- awesome information regarding Grimm and Aurender. Thanks people 🙏

@blisshifi

No worries. Now, it wouldn’t have been nice to get an upgraded clock module in N30SA then just the aforementioned upgrades with two chassis. From what I can tell, you get the same PCB board & clock as in N20. I wish I didn’t have to choose between N30SA and W20SE. My ultimate setup, W20SE for DK and Norah and N30SA for Stevie Ray Vaughan 🤣

@lalitk You're totally right -- I'm mixing up the N30SA and the MC20 (facepalming myself). Thank you for the correcting my mistake.

“with the N30SA having a 10MHz Rubidium clock,”

@blisshifi

I don’t think this is true. N30SA uses a high quality OCXO internal clock.

To answer your question about oversampling, I am not a fan. I prefer my digital bits in their native resolution. To my ears, oversampled files sounds artificial and adds unnecessary distortion. Each time I tried over sampling, the results have been inconsistent. My DAC allows me to stream upto DSD256 over Ethernet and I wouldn’t have it any other way.

There are always going to be those who prefer upsampling based on their setup and personal preferences. I rather pay for a native high resolution file then fiddle with on the fly upsampling 😊

Lucas Audio Music Server.  Give Lucas a call on What's App.  Phenomenal server and customer service.  It elevated the sound in my system immensely and that is with a Lampi Horizon DAC.

@fastfreight

 

Comparisons between the Grimm and Aurender in my system were Roon for Grimm and Conductor for the Aurrender. I doubt that has a significant sound effect. My experience is that it is the hardware that matters. Also, I used to own an Aurlic Aries G2… I concur both the Aurrender and Grimm are much better sounding streamers.
 

I use the AES output on my Aurender W20SE and the USB output on my N100. Switching between the two on my main system… when using my Audio Research CD9se DAC and a Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC showed little difference in sound quality but the determinate will be the quality of the DAC / streamer… in some combos USB may sound better… but typically AES will sound better. .

Thank you @blisshifi .  excellent synopsis and spot on to my interests.  I will be very interested in auditioning one of these Aurender units once they are Roon certified.  I am currently running AES from my Grimm into my Tambaqui..

@fastfreight I am actually an Aurender dealer, though I purchased my N30SA prior to becoming a dealer. Happy to chat options if you have interest. I’ve provided services and sales to a number of folks in this community.

To surpass the Grimm, the N20 will deliver the most bang for your buck, but depending on your budget, the W20SE and N30SA will deliver added performance. The N20 as you’ve read, will deliver more slam, weight, density and organic delivery. The W20SE is battery powered internally and delivers an added level of refinement and benefits less from audiophile AC cables, but many claim it is not as dynamic as the N20 or N30SA. The N30SA builds on the N20 by being a two-chassis beast, separating the digital signal from the power supply and display. It is more resolving and more dynamic than the N20. There are definitely diminishing returns along the way, as the $12.5K N20 is about 30% better than the $6300 N200 (but that’s a notable difference), whereas the $25.5K N30SA is I would say 10-15% better than the N20. I have less experience with the W20SE

When I compared Aurender and Grimm, I used Conductor vs Roon. There wasn’t really any other option. FWIW, what I have heard from the Aurender team, their tests with Roon have concluded that the Aurender units sound better using Conductor than Roon, but perhaps Roon will continue to optimize before they complete certification. It will at least be great to have Roon compatibility for convenience and still have Conductor for critical listening.

I have tried all sorts of cabling and with Aurender I prefer AES. This is because their units have excellent clocks, with the N30SA having a 10MHz Rubidium clock, and my T+A reference DAC will additionally reclock the incoming signal. The result is a more natural, smoother sound. I’ve found I prefer this interface, even if it can only do DSD128, vs USB up to DSD512 (my DAC can also do DSD1024). USB sounds more thinner, overly detailed and fatiguing in comparison. I do have interest in trying the Final Touch Audio Sinope USB, though I have tried a few other USB cables over double its price. Using USB, you don’t reap the benefits of the Aurender’s internal clock.

 

Also are you both using AES or USB to your DAC?

@ghdprentice ​​​​@blisshifi , Hello!  So when you are comparing these streamers are you comparing Roon on the Grimm vs Conductor on the Aurenders? Not picking on your assessment just wanting to understand the comparisons.  I have not played with the Grimm oversampling settings, but using what is recommended to me.  I love the MU1, and it is better than the Aries G2.1 and runs Roon Core so quite a bit simpler.   With the MU1's future software update, it could be one of my servers, with an Aurender being the other.  Then I would choose one of them to run Roon Core.  Where have you purchased your Aurender products?  I would wait for Roon certification, but am anxious to hear one in my system!  And of course which Aurender???  Thanks for pushing the envelope!

@ghdprentice I agree. I think the Grimm is a different flavor from the N20, for example, with the N20 having more density, richness, slam and refinement and the Grimm being dryer and thinner. I haven’t compared the W20SE or W20 to the Grimm, but I know the W20SE you have is even more refined than the N20 and my N30SA is both refined while being more dynamic and resolving than the N20.

Did you or @lalitk play with the Grimm’s oversampling settings much?

I had a Grimm in my system a couple weeks ago. While it is a good sounding unit it was not competitive with mid and upper tier Aurrender. I thought the Grimm had a very good midrange but came up short on the upper end… not being as refined and had a lean bass. 

@fastfreight 

Time will tell how Roon implementation will sound compared to Conductor app. Based on my interactions with Aurender chief designer, they will try to keep the signal as faithful as possible to original bits. That’s been a hallmark of Conductor app. As far as W20SE vs N30SA, it’s a matter of personal preference. I do plan on comparing the W20SE vs N30SA in a month or so and keep what sounds best to my ears. Both streamers will be slaved through my Merging 10MHz master clock. 

Thanks @lalitk ,  I guess I did not want to hear that!  But as they say, once you have heard it...

Curious how you will compare (if you play it) Roon vs Aurender App when Roon is available on an N20. Could it be you prefer the Aurender App over Roon sound?

And is the W20SE Better?  Just the battery implementation? Which is top dog Aurender?

“Would the top Aurender best the Grimm as both Server and Streamer?”
@fastfreight 

After listening to MU1, I can say MU1 is not in the same league as N20 and N30SA. 

The N20 clearly excels in terms of low frequency extension and slam. Based on my listening impressions, the N20 a step or two above in terms of transparency and coherency. The MU1 is good but for me, N20 offers lot more and one may prefer over another based on downstream DAC and personal taste of the sonic signature in the context of rest of the system.

@communique1 The N200 is the best bang for the buck on the Aurender line, congrats! IMO the N20 and N30SA are even better than the Grimm, so if ever the time comes that you are itching to upgrade, talk with your Aurender dealer to see if there is a path to do so. I offer this for many of my customers who want to start with an N200 and work their way up to the N20 or N30. 

Also, the certification timeline for getting Roon on Aurender is on Roon. They are working to meet Aurender’s requirements, which is why Aurender cannot be certain on a completion date. It will likely not be at least for another 3-4 months. 

I had an absolutely wonderful weekend listening to music. The N200 has surpassed my expectations and has allowed me to enjoy classical/orchestral music for hours on end. In fact, practically the entire weekend was spent listening to my favorite composers! I found myself not fiddling with apps and listening to works in their entirety...with a big grin on my face. I didn't even miss the turntable (Hope not to anger the analog gods!) To me, this is what it's all about..the music! I can only imagine what The Grimms and Playback Designs of the world bring to the table. But this is rabbit hole I'm not going down...at least not yet!

As an early adopter of Roon, with a lifetime subscription, and one who enjoys having multiple Roon endpoints, I have steered away from Aurender.  But the word about their Roon integration is intriguing.

I now have the Grimm MU1 and love it.  It replaced both my Nucleus+ and my Aries G2.1 and sounds fantastic. So much so that I am considering a second MU1 to use as a second endpoint only, an update that Grimm says is coming this year.

Aurender going with Roon will just complicate my brain!  Would the top Aurender best the Grimm as both Server and Streamer?  Then I could use my existing Grimm as the second endpoint!

@in_shore Could you share your secret sauce that beats out Evo 432 Aeon? From what I gather home brewed solution doesn't have the custom software as 432, Grimm and others do. 

After Dark has a new server coming not listed yet on their site though some information can be found at AudioPhileStyle and for those whom home brew their server devices After Dark are offering a pretty interesting product line they develop in-house .

I have had Innuos Zenith, Evo 432 Aeon , Rockna WaveDream Net including a couple other server streamers my current home brew edged all of them out performance wise at a third of the price though I’m pretty sure I’m going to try the After Dark offering when it hits the market next mouth .

I got the impression the last time I talked to Aurender that they are done with enhancements to Conductor 3 and are working on 4 

Enjoy!   I have a N200 and love it.   Great machine 

...and I don't use Airplay, so this feature is meaningless to me....

Not "Roon Ready" yet. This is a feature coming in the near future if I understand it correctly. However, you can use Roon via Airplay. I'm getting used to the App and it's not too bad....a moderate learning curve. but I'm quite happy with its performance so far and I find myself not missing Roon as much as I thought I would.

@communique1 : Is you new N200 "ROON ready"? 

Received my N200 this afternoon. I haven't listened yet, waiting for the transfer of files from NAS to internal SSD. I installed 8TB QVO. (Transfering @3TB...an overnight task.) Setup has been easy so far. Impressively solid unit. A great match with my Esoteric components. 

@communique1 @willywonka : thanks! Embracing Roon is a good move from Aurender. Actually Win-Win for both Aurender and Roon. It will open their markets to potentially larger audiences.

It's my understanding that their AMD CPUs were the limiting factor. They now use Intels. Also, I use Roon strictly for the interface. I use none of the upsampling, DSP, or EQ options. I let my DAC take care of that if I find the need.

@thyname I was at the Aurender room a couple weeks back in Axpona and they were telling me they are currently going through Roon Certification. They claim it will be a software update, but I find this confusing since previously they stated their CPUs weren't capable of handing the increased load for Roon. I only want to use Roon because it allows me to use Convolution filters for my headphones. Other than that, I could care a less about it.

@communique1 

Good call, enjoy your N200! 

Got from a few Aurender dealers. (Not sure they want to be published at this time.) Reach out to your Aurender dealer for more on this. Just sharing in the thread that I started. My hesitation with Aurender was the lack of Roon integration. Once I got "the word," pulling the trigger was an easy decision.  My info revealed that the new intel chip made this possible and more than likely won't be retro to older Aurender products. But no definite confirmation of the last point.

I got word that Aurender will include Roon integration as an option in a few months

Really? Aurender have said they will never ever integrate Roon for years now. And have been very vocal and firm about Roon. I am surprised. What was your source, can you share?

 

Thanks to everyone for their gracious input. Once I got word that Aurender will include Roon integration as an option in a few months, I decided on the N200.

At $7.5k, the 432 EVO Aeon Music Server got great reviews, the TAS reviewer purchased his loaner.  Seems to sonically punch above its price point.  I was considering stepping up from my Innuos Zenith Mk3.

I have the N200 and once you are use to the app, it's fine. I agree it needs to add a few more features. I find plenty of new music streaming, so have no use for Roon and the cost for it. I also agree with the person who said upgrade your DAC. I did and it made a world of difference.

I've never used Roon and don't intend to either because it has the potential to interfere with the original recordings.

I use an Aurender N20 with the Conductor App via Android, however Aurender do tend to prefer Apple, but Conductor doesn't interfere with the original sound in any way.

I have over 3000 Cds, SACDs, DVD-A's and BLU-RAYS stored on my Aurender SSD drives. When you have that amount of storage the last thing you want is pics because it'll take you forever to scroll through them.

Conductor has an option called Folder which gives a DOS like list of everything you've got.

Pics are for Noobs, but they're there if you need them.

If you can't stretch to the N20 the N200 is a fine machine.

This:

Check out SmallGreenComputer.com.  I have been using their products, and the Sonore products they sell for years.  Very reliable, easy to use, and fantastic support from Andrew.  IMHO, they offer great value by keeping their casework simple and eschewing expensive marketing.  The sound is wonderful, and I am using mostly their entry level kit.  I would imagine their better offerings would be competitive with many more expensive options.  They have a 30 day return option, too.

Do the optical bundle:

https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/recommended-solutions/products/the-uromd-bundle

 

 

Put a Roon Nucleus on your LAN and wire it via ethernet (whatever it takes) to a Lumin U1 or U2 then attach the USB to your Esoteric. My system is Nucleus to U1 to Chord M-Scaler and currently Chord Qutest so everything is upsampled to 705.6 or 768. I too like the Roon app. Well within your budget.

Adasdad,

The Esoteric D-05x is the best I can afford @ $8K, So I'm looking for a comparable music streamer to pair with it. 

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So @communique1, let me get this right after reading your thread. You’re wanting to spend several thousand dollars on a music streamer/server to put into your setup to improve the sound quality of your system, and you like Roon, but you want to ditch your NUC in favor of something hopefully better. Is that correct? Are you wedded to your present DAC for the foreseeable future? There has been a lot of great discussion concerning which streamer/server that you could try out. But IMO it’s more important to look at getting the best DAC that you can afford, and building your listening chain around that, instead of trying to make what you have sound better by adding another expensive powered box into your system.

The Aurender app is fine for me It lets you build playlists by mixing locally stored and Qobuz streamed music. But where the Aurender really shines is the sound quality. Much better than anything I hear before. It is due to the fact that music is cached in a SSD, removing much of the noise from Eterrnet and all. Last year I tried many speakers and carried my Aurender and Denafrips DAC to the stores. It repeatedly bettered by a lot whatever the dealers were using. Especially when a PC was used (MConnect etc..).

cfa88,

 Well out of my price range! But I appreciate the link.

You might want to look at the Memory Player.  I have a custom server / streamer built by Sam, super happy with the Memory Player. Below is a link to a newer version

https://www.thememoryplayer.net/general-1-1

I stream music from the internet via Roon almost 100% of the time because it’s simple and convenient. 

dinov, I choose the D-05x over, at the time, N-05 because of the higher DSD rate and other improvements. I also use fiber opt tx/rx ethernet connection.

I casually mentioned Computer Audio Design’s CAT in my last post. This is a relatively new product that doesn’t get lot of press here. If you mind extra boxes and added cost, CAT server is worth check out with an external power supply and one of the CAD grounding module. 
https://www.computeraudiodesign.com/cad-cat/