I agree with displayname. Pick the table that works for you; As for me I am very happy with my Ultradeck + M. It is alive and musical as stevehuff stated. It is also dead quiet. I purchased the MoFi One Step Fragile album. Fantastic! I have never heard Mood for a Day sound that good. As far as the Technics, I never auditioned one so I can't comment on it, except that a lot of people like them. |
@stevehuff Did you use the same cartridge on both turntables ? What was your cartridge then? Are you sure it is not a cartridge/tonearm mismatch? What is a compliance of your cartridge ? |
Had both here. For me the MiFi won hands down. All of this will depend on your system, amp, speakers, cables, room, etc. The Technics in my system was nice but lacked musical flow and was quite a bit more flat sounding. The MoFi was more alive, musical, more punch and drive and not rounded off at all. Sounded complete. I really enjoyed the technics but the MoFi bettered it for me (Ultradeck +M) |
@displayname You are comparing apples to oranges, you're not comparing turntables, you are comparing cartridges of the different type (MM vs. MC mounted on two different toneamrs) and all your preferences is a cartridge preferences, not a turntable.
As I stated in my review, I'm not a reviewer. I was a consumer looking for the best turntable system for my system. I made that decision based on the sound I heard and my preferences. Also your Hanna is not the best cartridge for Technics tonearm.
Not my Hana. This was the dealer's choice. He could have selected any cartridge he wanted to pair with the Technics, including the MoFi carts which he does stock. I'm going to trust his experience over mine. He had every reason to pair both tables with the best cart in my budget because he was trying to make a sale. If you want to compare turntables you must use same tonearm and same cartridge and same phonostage on both of them.
In an scientific testing sense, I agree. But no normal person shops like that, especially at this price point. Maybe at higher end tables, but at this price point swapping out tone arms doesn't make sense for anyone. We controlled as many variables as possible. Same speakers, same amps, same room, same phonostage, same cables. The only gear changing was the turntable/cart combo, and the phonostage settings (to match each cart accordingly). As I said at the end of my last post, I would encourage anyone to work with a local dealer, and let your ears decide. Make choices that fit your preferences and match best with your system. |
The Technics is flashy looking but it's platter is more likely to ring and the many cavities in it's plinth may resonate and ring also. It has a heavy tonearm which will be limited ti lower compliance cartridges whereas the MoFi arm is light and will handle high compliance cartridges and with the addition of head shell weights all low compliance cartridges. @mijostyn I think you have very little information about Technics turntable and most likely you have never owned any of them. Technics tonearm is nowhere near high mass! While the MoFi cartridges for some reason are fairly low compliance 8-10cu (too low for MM), so the MoFi tonearm must be much higher mass than Technics, because Technics is not designed for low compliance cartridges, Technics headshell is lighweight. Technics always was great for MM/MI cartridges with compliance up to 30cu, but not for a low compliance cartridges.
The UD was paired with the MasterTracker.
The 1200GR was paired with the Hana SL.
@displayname You are comparing apples to oranges, you're not comparing turntables, you are comparing cartridges of the different type (MM vs. MC mounted on two different toneamrs) and all your preferences is a cartridge preferences, not a turntable. Also your Hanna is not the best cartridge for Technics tonearm. Such comparison makes no sense. Your test does not prove anything regarding turntables. If you want to compare turntables you must use same tonearm and same cartridge and same phonostage on both of them. With the arms/cartridges that you have the last thing you have to do is to swap them between those two turntables, but you can't. |
Good work displayname. I think you chose wisely (he didn't turn into dust in 30 seconds) In mechanical devises simplicity is generally best. Extraneous vibration is a big problem for cartridges and the design of the MoFi with it's dampened plinth and delrin platter will be much less likely to pass extraneous vibration on to the cartridge. The Technics is flashy looking but it's platter is more likely to ring and the many cavities in it's plinth may resonate and ring also. It has a heavy tonearm which will be limited ti lower compliance cartridges whereas the MoFi arm is light and will handle high compliance cartridges and with the addition of head shell weights all low compliance cartridges. The MoFi is simply a more elegant and flexible design. I personally do not like removable head shells with added contact points. Most of use do not juggle cartridges. If you compare cartridges using two turntables all set up is a much more effective way of doing it. |
^ really good comparison of two nice affordable turntables!
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I'm assuming the OP likely made a decision by now, but I'll weigh in if others find this thread.
I also demoed both at the same dealer, and we used my Sutherland 20/20 on both tables. I did not have the luxury of having the same cart in both, but I also told the dealer to pick the carts he felt paired best with each within my budget, and I was judging on an "out the door" package. Obviously the same cart on both is ideal, but I'm a consumer, not a reviewer. I was looking for the table that would work best for me and my system.
The UD was paired with the MasterTracker.
The 1200GR was paired with the Hana SL.
I took 5 records with, and we did one track from each on both tables.
Associated gear with BAT amplification and Rockport speakers. I don't remember on all the cables.
I also agree with @avanti1960 - the GR was a little more dynamic and detailed, while the MoFi was more laid back. What's interesting to me was that the MoFi seemed to really play best to older recordings and acoustics, while the GR stood out with modern and more synth/electric music. I can see the argument that to some the UD would feel a little loft at the top, but I don't feel it lacked detail. And to me, the GR felt a little overly analytical and etched at some points. The attack from the piano on one track stood out as somewhat unnatural to my ear, but that was only because I was in an A/B and really nitpicking. To be fully honest, they were both excellent, and each had their own trade offs. And yes, some of the sound differences could have been attributed to the carts, I get that.
Remember that system matching is important as well, and for me that's what it came down to. My system already runs bright, and I felt that the GR set up was going to be too aggressive and somewhat exaggerated/artificial sounding in my system. I came home with the UD, and I have been extremely happy for over a year now. Everything still runs great and sounds great.
If you can demo, that's the way to go. Pick the table that works for you!
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Between the two, Technics.
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Technics so hard it's not even funny |
I purchased a Mo Fi Ultra Deck + M . In my system it is very transparent and dynamic and not laid back or rounded off at all. Obviously, It depends on your system and cables. |
I actually think that the original scout with acrylic platter sounds better than the prime. Maybe its the acrylic platter lending to a sound that I preferred on the VPI. They sound very similar in many ways. |
The Triple post above was unintentional, of course. My apologies... Cheers -Don |
GR
I also have the Master Tracker cartridge which I like. I have vintage MM's too. A lot of carts out there. That's all I've got tonight, going to bed.... |
I wonder if the VPI Prime and the Prime Scout sound the same or have differences. The Prime is a lot more money.
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@lewm
the 2 turntables auditioned were in the same system with all the same downstream components.
Again this is just my opinion of the way I heard it and wrote my notes.
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Soundwatts, With all due respect, your level of experience with DD turntables (old production SL1200 and 1100 and a listen under unknown conditions to a new SL1200GR) does not warrant your gross generalization regarding "huge soundstage". In my long experience, that quality has most to do with the plinth and all the downstream components, especially the speakers and room. Also, by saying the VPI has more "rhythm and pace", are you intimating that you felt it had better speed constancy? But if so, why is the Technics more "dynamic"? Thanks.
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@mr_bill
Yes I have. The technics is a dynamic table. But what the vpi has over it is rythm and pace as well as a huge Soundstage that I have not heard from a DD turntable. Don't know why but I have owned the sl1100 and 1200 in the day. Heard the new one and the VPI recently and AB. Same impression
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The technics every day of the week and weekends. |
heard them both, same dealer. walked out with the GR. if you like smooth, laid back and rounded off get the mofi. if you like steady, dynamic, detailed, smooth and neutral go technics. not even close IMHO.
Same Cartridge? |
heard them both, same dealer. walked out with the GR. if you like smooth, laid back and rounded off get the mofi. if you like steady, dynamic, detailed, smooth and neutral go technics. not even close IMHO.
Same Cartridge ? (-: |
avanti1960
heard them both, same dealer. walked out with the GR. if you like smooth, laid back and rounded off get the mofi. if you like steady, dynamic, detailed, smooth and neutral go technics. not even close IMHO.
Same cartridge? (-: |
Great feedback @avanti1960, that’s the sound I like that you described as the Technics.
soundwatts - I would like to hear more, have you compared? |
Vpi prime scout with ortofon quintet bronze |
avanti1960, that is the perfect analogy. |
heard them both, same dealer. walked out with the GR. if you like smooth, laid back and rounded off get the mofi. if you like steady, dynamic, detailed, smooth and neutral go technics. not even close IMHO. |
I'm willing to bet the 1200 will keep its resale value much longer too if what the vintage Technics tables seem to sell for these days |
+1 The Technics with the Grado Sonata. Set it and forget it! |
If you’re new to analog and willing to get an amazing quality cartridge (which is the most important in reproduction of vinyl media) then you have to be very careful, because for the price of the new cartridges you can get much better transducer from the golder age of analog. When vinyl was the main media and records and turntables were in every home the cartridge manufacturers were much more serious about the quality, they could sell more cartridges than today and for this reason invested in developing some exceptional phono pickups to be the best over the others. It was during the 70s era, i think the best phono pickups were made in the early 80s, then Digital floaded the market and it was bad time for vinyl media. What we have today in our digital era is just a little bit of what it was before in agalog era. So if you want the best bang for the bucks then look for vintage MM cartridges such as Grace, Stanton, Victor, Audio-Technica, Sony, Pioneer ... All specific models have been mentioned many times on this forum. Some of them are hard to find, but well worth the effort if you’re looking for high fidelity that none of the modern MM will give you. |
Either table will sound very good.
MoFi:
Wow & Flutter 0.017% – 0.025%
Rumble 74 dB
Belt Drive
Cartridges not easily changed.
Technics:
Wow & Flutter 0.025%
Rumble 78 dB
Direct Drive
Cartridges easily changed (this is part of the fun to me).
Specs are a toss up.
I have a 1200GR, love it. If you decide to get one, three cartridges I recommend, owning and enjoying all, are Ortofon Black, Grado Sonata and Nagaoka MP200 (or higher). |
