Right now I'm using a Marantz PM-11S1 w/ Monitor Audio Gold floor standers. I'm a big fan of Marantz reference gear and their smooth yet detailed warmth. That said, I'm looking to get an integrated for my bedroom setup with a built-in DAC (no room for separates), which nixes something like the PM-KI Ruby. Looks to me like the McIntosh MA5300 / 7200 or Accuphase E-280 / E-380 fit the bill. I'm not really interested in Hegel or Rotel based on their aesthetics. I kind of like the idea of VU meters as well. So the question is, between the two McIntosh integrated or the Accuphase, what's my play? I'm located in the US so that's two points for Mc (pricing and service). But the Accuphase stuff looks to have much higher quality components, design, and build quality. Though for the price of the E-280 w/ option boards I could get a MA7200 and have spare change. Hmm...
@lostark Enjoy your new toy. When it comes to music I recognize two truths - 1. when we listen our mind works 2. when emotions are triggered so is memory
Sometimes I wonder if I'm enjoying listening to the actual music or listening to a memory of the music. And because I'm enjoying it I kind of let that idea go and return to the present of listening to music.
Thanks to all for the helpful input. Did a bunch of auditioning over the past couple weeks. To my ear McIntosh takes the prize, regardless of price. It's just icing on the cake that it's a much better value proposition here in the US. I was also wrong about build quality. The knobs on Luxman do feel sturdier, but it's because they are traditional wiper-pots — the Mc knobs use an electronically switched resistor ladder, which is more accurate and durable, even if it doesn't feel as luxurious. MA8900 is on order.
Also, I will say people tend to hate on Macs too much. They produce beautiful gear that can outlast you and provide a lot of clean power while doing it. I used the MC252 power amplifier for 10 years and it'll always remain one of my favorites.
That's fine, I don't want to get into price = quality arguments, you can read about respective gear build quality at both manufacturer websites, though I find Luxman's to be a lot more comprehensive. Point being they are marked up a lot more here in the US which if you feel privileged about paying that premium, that's ok by me. This is late stage capitalism so no surprises there.
My 2 cents - I have a McIntosh MC7270 amp. It's about 40 years old. Performs flawlessly,sounds exceptional and sells for about $500.00 more then the original MSRP. The build quality is insane and will drive just about any speaker to top performance.
I don't care about aesthetics, but I can tell you that I was never thrilled with McIntosh, and really do not like the electronic, Crown IC150 sound of current Rotel equipment. I really gave it a chance, with several listening sessions of my CD's. Even the sales person remarked that it was not for long term listening.
Wait! Is this you praising McIntosh gear but attacking my personal
experiences with Moon or any other product I’ve actually owned in the
past? ...
I haven't attacked you for anything. Perhaps you are confused.
Do you do this with every thread or do you have any
validity??
Please feel free to read my other posts on this site and decide for yourself. You might consider that if I've behaved as you suggest the moderators would have excluded me long ago.
Here is an interesting thread about bench testing equipment that is suppose to be perfect in every way. I honestly thought it was about how it sounds! Please read. This article should help any person who is looking for that next great high end gear.
We test, fix and upgrade all equipment including McIntosh. However, we sell very few lines including Accuphase and Benchmark Media Systems in electronics. Both of these measure and perform well but they present the client with a very different identity. We look for equipment that sounds ’great’ and doesn’t break, and manufacturers who are well-funded. We also shy away from a line with a new update every week even though that probably looses us plenty of sales.
I would class Accuphase in the category of flexible, sonically and visually impeccable ’luxury’ goods from an extremely successful and well-funded company that have been in the same private hands for decades. However, they have recently brought in a new younger engineering designer who has made some exciting new models so they do not rest on their hands.
We test samples and listen to every line before we sell it. Neither current McIntosh nor current Luxman met our criteria. Current McIntosh equipment is designed to a price and is a bear to repair because of their circuit designs, layouts and fabrication.
Conversely, for example, the current and previous generation of separate Accuphase phono preamp is the closest piece of equipment that measures as a ’straight wire with gain.’ Their sonics are exquisite. The AD-50 Phono cards that plug into the integrated and some preamps are derived from them. The latest DAC card is also very good.
We would definitely recommend the E-x80 series if you are looking for a class a/b integrated that has much flexibility.
BTW, I am still using a T-100 FM tuner that I bought decades ago.
cleeds-- I have no doubt you had problems with your Aurender . Every manufacturer has a lemon once in a while.
Quite so, no doubt. My issues with the Aurender were only in part the actual product - which I do not think was a lemon - but also the indifferent support. And to be fair, many users praise Aurender support. But my experience with them unsatisfactory.
I’m spoiled, though, because for decades I’ve had excellent support from companies such as Bryston, Grado, ARC and McIntosh. In years past, I received excellent support from Infinity, Tandberg, Nakamichi and PS Audio. In my experience, Aurender isn’t in their class. Not even close cleeds3,491 posts12-11-2020 4:34amlalitk
... and it appears you’re still pretty miffed about it ...
Oh no, not at all. I was never "miffed" about it, just disappointed. Stuff happens.
I see very little point in dwelling over the past. Move on please....
Huh? I think it’s useful for readers to share their honest experiences here. What’s odd about this is that if we praise a product, we’re subject to being called a "fanboy." Yet if we’re critical, we may be called "miffed" and asked to "move on."
I have moved on, btw - I bought a Bryston BDP-3 from the same dealer where I bought the Aurender. It’s terrific! I use it with Rigelian software and I think I’ll be pleased with it for years, as I have with other Bryston products. And if you think that makes me a "fanboy," that’s your problem.
Wait! Is this you praising McIntosh gear but attacking my personal experiences with Moon or any other product I’ve actually owned in the past? Hmmmm, SMH. Do you do this with every thread or do you have any validity?? It looks like in your statement, you didn’t have any issues with McIntosh that you mentioned and you definitely didn’t mention anything positive about Moon! Hmmmm. In fact you talked about Bryson, good products by the way + a 20 year warranty:-)
I have the McIntosh MC2301 Monoblock amplifiers. I seriously doubt that Accuphase will top that in sound quality. If you think so, please provide proof.
Don't be silly. First, no one here owes you proof of anything, just as I'm not going to ask you to prove your claim. Second, "sound quality" in this context is mostly subjective. There's no need to provide proof or justification for any preference.
As far as Moon gear is concerned ... Reliability has always been problematic.
That hasn't been my experience at all. Please tell us about your experience.It’s just as silly to assume that Accuphase sounds better than McIntosh. Secondly don’t ask for ones experience if you can’t validate your own. Third, the whole point of what I stated if you had read the full comments is that your listing experience is subjective. That’s why I stated, “it’s your money, spend it however you want to”. Let’s be clear since you open the can of words. Your verbiage is of your own opinion, not facts. What is a fact is that I have had issues with Moon gear, but definitely don’t owe you an explanation. It is not my own experiences weather you like it or not. I never stated I dislike Moon gear, I made a choice that was convenient for me. I’d rather enjoy my music then sending equipment back to companies for repairs. In over 40 years, I have owned some interesting gear from various companies all over the world and go off of my own experience of what I have owned in the past. I’m fortunate to do so. I’m quite sure I’m not alone in this category. If your feeling are b.. hurt because you own Moon products and it hasn’t caused you any problem, get over it and enjoy your music. It’s amazing how some folks have never owned any of the high end McIntosh gear but have an opinion about their quality of sound. So many hatters out there without any validity, smh
I have
the McIntosh MC2301 Monoblock amplifiers. I seriously doubt
that Accuphase will top that in sound quality. If you think so, please
provide proof.
Don't be silly. First, no one here owes you proof of anything, just as I'm not going to ask you to prove your claim. Second, "sound quality" in this context is mostly subjective. There's no need to provide proof or justification for any preference.
As far as Moon gear is concerned ... Reliability has
always been problematic.
That hasn't been my experience at all. Please tell us about your experience.
Not sure what other components these customers use with Accuphase and what cheaper version of the McIntosh amplifiers you are comparing too. I have the McIntosh MC2301 Monoblock amplifiers. I seriously doubt that Accuphase will top that in sound quality. If you think so, please provide proof. As far as Moon gear is concerned, it’s really good gear when it’s working (kinda like Mark Levinson and Krell). Reliability has always been problematic. This is why I don’t invest in their gear anymore. Every company has good and bad gear and some have stellar. McIntosh has definitely done something right, which will explain the companies longevity. It’s your money, spend it how you want to.
I own McIntosh amp/preamp. Haven’t really spent time with Accuphase gear. Here’s my view Mac has a string secondary market. And I have listened to Moon integrated amps and I have a moon DAC. I agree with jaulbrich as far as quality but not meters
To this day I regret selling my stack of Accuphase to my nephew. I have a wonderful system now. It really sounds fantastic and I am satisfied in every way. My Accuphase stack was from the late 1970s and consisted of a T-100 tuner, C-200 preamp, and two of the P-300 power amps. Using an outboard active dividing network and running some big Infinity speakers and that system was spectacular. It looked great and sounded even better. Build quality is as good as it gets. I never had a problem with any of the components. I wish I had never sold it. No matter what you settle on you will enjoy it as those are both good choices. But for me, and based on my experience, I can say the Accuphase is the way to go.
I don't know what you have going on in your bedroom, acoustically, but the McIntosh RS200 has amazing sound. I was blown away by how it sounded. Give it a listen. You too will be amazed.
I guess you guys know that Accuphase is sold much cheaper in Japan than the US and Europe, in Japan they compete with the other big brands like the upper series of Denon, Sony and the like. what makes Accuphase special, is that they are still privately owned and their products has always been first class in quality. Now if one likes the design or their sound signature is a totally different matter, each to their own I guess
Go with Accuphase. Luxman here being toss around a lot because of lower pricing in USA otherwise Accuphase is a superior product both in sound and build quality, IMHO.
I would not buy McInotsh, neither Accuphase. In the simmilar budget you can buy Ear Yoshino 868 + 509. For a couple of bucks more you can do even better and buy Atma Sphere system (made in USA) which will outperform almost anything else. Both systems will be more pleasing to the eye than Accuphase and you will have also a much better sound. I have recently compared Atma Sphere MA-1 to Accuphase in Quad ESL based system, and the verdict was instant and obvious: Atma Sphere was much better in every aspect. But, if you have to choose between Accuphase and McInotsh for any possible reason, then you should go for Accuphase.
"the mac is sold in magnolia. big difference. you just happened to leave out a detail. r u associated with msnbc or cnn? they leave out the details also."
I have no idea what CNN or MSNBC have to do with McIntosh being sold at Best Buy stores, but so be it. I am not associated with either of them anyway.
If you walk into some of the Best Buy stores, somewhere in the back may be a separate room with McIntosh and other more expensive gear. In all I have been to, you have to check Best Buy store opening hours and walk past computers, refrigerators, cell phones, and whatever else usual Best Buy store has on offer.
I understand you might have not left those facts out of your comment on purpose. We all learn every day.
Check out Magnolia AV website for details so I do not leave any out (link is copied from mcintoshlabs.com dealer locator)...
Best Buy purchased Magnolia Hi-Fi in Dec. 2000, closing down the company’s physical locations and integrating the audio and video retailer directly into Best Buy showrooms.
Glupson the mac is sold in magnolia. big difference. you just happened to leave out a detail. r u associated with msnbc or cnn? they leave out the details also.
Unless something changed over the last couple of years, McIntosh can be found even at Best Buy. Accuphase is much more elusive. Elusive enough that I dropped it off the shopping list as I simply could not locate one. Hopefully, you get a chance to listen to both and, as someone earlier mentioned, do not dismiss Luxman just yet,
Side by side I have 2 systems, Mc22 and 2xMc75's and a Supratek DHT pre (running 2a3's) with Accuphase A70 power amp. I mix and match all sorts of speakers on them, Harbeth, Dyn's, Apogee and WAR. The Supratek Accuphase is a clear step above the Mc system, sound stage, dynamics and detail. I like the Mc system a lot which is why I kept it. I have found a valve pre (was originally using an Ayon) in front of the Class A Accuphase is a beautiful combination. The A70 Accuphase delivers neutrally with all the detail.
No comparison , McIntosh has great looks and very respectable Accuphase is in another class ,dollar per dollar ,especially their class A gear Japan excellence , McIntosh is not built to this standard ,they use a lot of average parts build quality I sold it I know first hand ,just look on Utube it shows the Mc assembly line ,not withAccuphase.
Accuphase is one of the few products, I’ve sold I really wish I didn’t.
I’m a MAC guy, with CAPS. There is something about Accuphase and small planars. 25 years ago I was in a bit of a bind. Yup the Mac stayed the Accuphase went. I still think about the clarity and build quality of that unit. It was really built well. The sound, VERY refined mids one of the few like Mac that didn’t boil my ears... Preamp! Quality parts!
One small issue was a service. Something to do with lumination. Wanted me to split the shipping for a recall. I though it odd. So requested the parts.. They got all uppity and voided the warrantee. I didn’t care, I kept it 2 - 3 year beyond the warrantee. I did the "BULB" swap 200.00 shipping, NO. Send me the parts...
The guy that got it never stopped using it. His son still listens to it..
It’s 32 years old...
I heard a AP 380 and a MAC 5300, 4 months ago.. Mac went back, just not close. This guy is B&W guy and a pair of the smaller ML planars, (OK sound really).. Accuphase really made them sing.. Mac was boomy highs were just tone controlled to death. Didn't sound like a Mac to me..
Keep in mind, in the USA the McIntosh 7200 will actually be the MAC7200, which is a receiver (with a tuner). The integrated only MA7200 is only available outside of the states. The two units are otherwise identical. The MAC7200 is authorized to be sold through many online retailers, unlike the other products. The MA5300 is a direct coupled amp, not an Autoformer amp. It is also authorized for online sales.
Accuphase, of course. I am building a new system and recently heard an Accuphase at a dealer (it was an exchange I think since the dealer does not carry Accuphase otherwise). We compared the Accuphase E-480 with McIntosh (I think it was the 7200, but can't remember the exact model to be honest), and to my ears the Accuphase was better -- more transparent and neutral (in a good way). I ended up buying a used Audio Research integrated, but Accuphase would have been my second choice.
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