You are right, the first thing I met with was rudeness.It clued me into the scene, immediately.
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If someone spends north of $100 on a fuse, pops it in and hears a difference I have no doubt that person is telling the truth. But that does not mean the fuse actually did anything. All I can say is that when I make a system change I live with and at some point make a determination as to whether or not I think it sounds better. I’ve noticed with audio cables that cost above a few hundred dollars or so, price no longer determines quality or better sound any more than price makes one wine varietal taste better than another of the same varietal-- at a certain level of quality-- there’s just differences-- like the flavor notes between those wines, and you go with what you like. Is it better? To you maybe, but in truth, they're just differences, not better than or worse than. Some people that think a $100,000 amp is always better than a say $25,000 amp because of the difference in price. They are, IMO, deluding themselves because of the general prejudice that higher cost equals higher quality-- at a certain level in almost all things, it just ain’t so. A $100 fuse is not likely any better than a $3.00 fuse. |
My issue with a lot of the tweaks, like designer fuses, is that the prices being charged are often absurd based upon actual production costs, and the dubious (at best claims) which which rarely include any actual evidence of efficacy. Kind of like most nutritional supplements-- where if there is any hard science, it virtually never supports the claims being made-- and as the studies pile up-- calls most of them into question. Again, placebo effects are very real, even though it's just a sugar pill. |
@robberjobberman My three blue SR fuses make a very significant upgrade over standard buss fuses in my custom tube amps and highly modified Dynaco ST70. However, they apparently make no difference in some equipment, including an EAR 864 preamp. Same with the power outlets. SR blue (black and red as well) outlets are superior to my former Hubbell hospital grade outlets. SR says it's the 2 million volts they subject these products to and graphene coating. I don't know but the proof is in the pudding. Wonderfully enhanced listening. I've given back two of SRs more expensive products as doing harm rather than good. However, I rely on SR's HFTs (32 in my main listening room) for acoustical treatment along with Hallographs and acoustic paneling. |
I just putt an AMR. fuse in my Ultimate 70 Van Alstine two days ago. This was after I had put two into the tube preamp, I had it connected to. It also helped soundstage and tone. I have not gone beyond the 15 buck per fuse level. I can tell you I have been using them in sources also, for a couple years now. |
Naysayers should read some of the European reviews of aftermarket fuses where some countries mandate fuses in the housing of the mains lines plugs. Of every one I've read that was for a TV, they all reported improved TV performance, which can actually be seen. It's along the same lines as what I've seen with better AC cords and power conditioning. That, and all the qualifying statements from those who've yet to try it makes one wonder, why bother debating, for they'll never know and will always complain, using the same, tired points. And, it would be nice to see them stop using the medical analogy of placebo, since a placebo has no medicinal effect whatsoever when measured against a real drug and with any piece of audio gear, there actually is something of relative value and performance going up against what you're supposedly testing. In other words, they both work along the same lines for the intended purpose. One just happens to be better than the other. Leave the price of it out of the equation and they'll find themselves balancing on one leg. All the best, Nonoise |
I don't know, but I was wondering if high end manufacturers of audio components use high end fuses. I have McIntosh 601's. They are 10k + for the pair. You would think companies like this would have researched this potential improvement. Even if they dropped a couple hundred bucks more on a component and it made their product sound better than the competition, they would do it, and list it in their features. I don't remember any company doing this. But they may be trying to cut corners or just don't know about it. No, I haven't tried high end fuses, so that may disqualify me from this discussion. But if some high end companies (like McIntosh) try to weigh in here, ignore them, they probably have not tried them either. |
Well Holo Audio checks off every other snake oil claim w.r.t. May DAC (but can't figure out a buffer) so why not add fuses in there? Starting off with NOS at redbook rates is already a flawed presentation. I did get a kick out of their marketing. That was some seriously thick spreading of the brown stuff. https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-may-dac/ |
Replacing a fuse or even twisting the existing fuse back and forth in its holder will make a difference, if the component has ben in service for a long period of time. As George pointed out, after many cycles of off and on, the electrode can burn and weaken. Also, after time, the contacts (just as with speaker cable connectors and IC cable connectors) may also become a bit oxidized or corroded and need cleaned, or at least twisted in the holder, to remove oxidation and improve contact. In most cases the difference you’ll hear by replacing old burned fuses with standard new replacement fuses or cleaning contacts, would be the same as putting in a $150.00 super fuse, but without the cost....Jim |
In most cases the difference you’ll hear by replacing old burned fuses with standard new replacement fuses or cleaning contacts, would be the same as putting in a $150.00 super fuse, but without the cost....Jim Ya got that right https://youtu.be/l886uQi6Rhg?t=48 |
Maybe with something made at the turn of last century would moving a fuse around inside its holder make a difference. It would have to be poorly made, bordering on primitive. Never seen a fuse do what Georgie says with his summer vacation slide shows. All that supposed corrosion would be evident throughout the chassis and not just at one tiny point of contact where the fuse resides. Listen to yourselves. You're delusional and grasping at straws. Going one step further, how is it that a different fuse can't possibly contribute to the sound of an amp but just moving an existing fuse can, when all it's supposed to be is safety feature and not at all capable of affecting the sound? You can't have it both ways. All the best, Nonoise |
Hate to brake the news, but audio fuses and fuse holders have the same function and basic design as they have had for the past 40 years and any contact connection that is made to be removed or replaced is susceptible to oxidation and corrosion, including your cables, cords, wall plugs and switch contacts. Not sure where you're coming from on this one nonoise......Jim |
@audio2design You're right, a good connection is important. A hospital grade outlet receptacle is designed and built under strict quality standards and made to provide a secure and lasting contact. A hospital grade receptacle costs around $20.00, not $500.00. There is a point where claims of grander goes from function to plain BS.....Jim |
Interesting scenario, not a fuse, but the same point. Was just out watering and the hose connection, at the outdoor water faucet, was leaking - in spite of making sure the hose was screwed on tight. My wife brought me a new rubber washer, worth maybe 25 cents. I said this will never do, go to the HW store and see if you can find a really good one, costing maybe $50. or $100. She rolled her eyes, shook her head and said "just put it in". I pulled the old one out, put in the new 25 cent washer and voila, no leaks, not even a drip. I guess I’ll never know if a $100.00 washer would have made it not leak even more....Jim |
Reading some of this blather takes me back. Hard to believe now but I make no secret of it, there was a time when I too was dumb and ignorant as a rock. Everything I believed it turned out later was just plain wrong. But being arrogant and inexperienced I believed it. And so I made an ass of myself lecturing people on what can and cannot matter. But being so determined to prove all these people wrong I also tried as hard as possible to prove myself right. So instead of just changing a fuse, or cable, or RCA, whatever, I cleaned the crap out of it and listened to that first. Which sure enough, more often than not if it hand’t been cleaned in a while it did sound slightly better for having been cleaned. I coulda been duped just like all the other schlubs but not me, smarter than your average bear! Not for long. Because then when the new fuse, cable, interconnect, power cord really did sound better, or even just different, well can’t use the stupid corrosion dirt story any more. That one is just gone. So this was like 30 years ago. In case any of you guys are wondering just how out of date you sound. Like freaking Rip Van Winkle. Its a whole new millennium. You’re not in Kansas any more. Wake up. Smell the coffee. And every other metaphor for abject cluelessness. In other words, get a clue. |
And so I made an ass of myself lecturing people on what can and cannot matter. So this has been a lifetime endeavor apparently. Wake up. Smell the coffee. And every other metaphor for abject cluelessness. In other words, get a clue. And the pleasant comradery is destined to continue into perpetuity. Has scolding one's way into greatness ever worked? |
Sorry guys, but who here honestly thinks that people are swapping out fuses as often as ICs or SCs. And, based on what you say, do you regularly go about opening up your gear and cleaning your fuse holders as often as you do your cable connections? I tried that years ago when first told it was just the contacts and guess what? Cleaning them revealed nothing. No dirt. No residue. Nothing like what one would find on RCA and speaker connections. I take a good look at those fuse holders when swapping fuses and they look brand new and nothing like RCA jacks and speaker connectors after 6 months, let alone 6+ years. I have to give you guys credit for imagination. This is all nothing but going in circles with the same old tired arguments. What you great minds of audio should do is stop wasting time haunting audio forum boards and figure out just how and why a fuse can contribute to the sound, because it does. All the best, Nonoise |
@nonoise I never said or implied that anyone needs regularly change out their fuses, but that if you changed out your old fuse and by some miracle heard a starteling difference by putting in one of the magic fuses. you would have heard the same difference by cleaning the contacts and putting in a standard new fuse and saved $147.00. v@millercarbon Have been at this game longer than you and I put my store in my own ears and in those on here who have actually spent their life/lives building and repairing electronics and those who have spent their lives in the recording and production business, who wouldn’t dream of spending $150.00 for a magic fuse or $1K+ per foot for any kind of cord or cable. Those who make a living at actually producing the music don’t have the time or money to waste on con games. So whatever it takes to please your super hearing - go for it....Jim |
Lame. If you can't hear a difference just come out and say you can't hear a difference. If you can hear a difference and just don't think its worth the money then go ahead and say that. Either way is perfectly fine and allows you to maintain moral integrity. What you cannot do is what you are trying to do, pretend you are able to hear without ever taking a stand. You're criticizing using only the worst innuendo without ever taking a position, other than faking superiority. Which is vile. Just so you know. |
@jhills, I never claimed a startling difference and I’ve never advocated spending $147 on a fuse. What I have heard are more akin to tonal shifts, attenuated highs, an out of phase characteristic to the sound, etc. They were, however, significant enough that I kept on researching (something most audiophiles do) until I found the best fuse for my needs, never having to spend more than about $50 bucks per fuse. And, again, if a fuse’s job is just to protect and has no effect on the sound, then some small speck or mote on the contacts wouldn’t have an effect on the sound. Either the fuse works or it fails, by design, and stops any current. If that speck or mote has an effect on the sound, then a fuse with much better conductivity would, as well. Both ways argue better conductivity. All I can and will say, from now on, is: until you try it for yourself, you’re arguing in bad faith. All the best, Nonoise |
WOW millercarbon - sorry to bruise your tender ego. Still, I’ll stick with the opinions and sound advise of those on here who actually build audio components (not $5K IC cables and power cords or $150.00 fuses and outlet covers) and the opinions of those who spent their lives in the studios and stages to make and produce the music we enjoy....Jim |
Clean, new common fuses in a pair of monoblock tube amps made a subtle improvement. Synergistic Research Red, Black and Blue (haven't tried the Orange) fuses made/make a HUGE difference. So much so, that the amp designer who detests tweaks, was awestruck and replaced the fuse holders with 5 amp breakers. Now his amps and mine sound very, very similar. The only tweak he approved of was removing the fuse itself. The reason I didn't do the same is that his breakers are NOS and may not be effective in case of fault. I also have an SR blue fuse on my moded Dynaco ST70 to great improvement. Another friend and I have tried an SR blue fuse on our EAR 864 preamps (not in my main system). Nope, sounds worse than the fuse that came with it. The EAR 890 amp also sounds great (5% difference between it and my custom monoblocks) using the fuse that came with it as well. My conclusion is that upgraded fuse changes are not always sonically effective. When they are effective, they can be a tremendous improvement in sound despite their "unreasonable" cost. I use Stillpoints for most of my equipment (Dyanco, monoblock amps, CD Transport, Pre-amp, phono amp, Bryston BIT20 isolation transformer, Blu-ray player). However, they don't make my COS DAC D2V or EAR 890 sound better (actually worse). Why, I don't know for certain. I do know that the DAC was designed with superior vibration isolation characteristics. |
I don't care if upgraded fuses work, that my attitude, so when I tried one and got it put in the right direction, it did make a difference. Now those who claim they see God with the change I would not go that far, but there was a difference in my McIntosh amp, the one thing I can say for sure flipping even the stock fuse around which was a ceramic one not a glass one in my McIntosh Amp made a difference, one direction sounded much better than the other direction. I do think from what I heard that Audiophile fuses are way overpriced, I used an SR Orange, now I see they have Purple which always kills every fuse they made before, that old sales pitch is getting old. Took them 3 years to develop a fuse, really? |