MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?


Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question :  " true " answer.

 

Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.

 

Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.

 

In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread  I remember that he was truly emphatic  posting that my MM conclusion was not  true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.

 

Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.

 

I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.

 

I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind )  MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.

 

So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.

 

I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.

 

We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges  as an " isolated " audio item and that  any of our opinions when be posible  stay in the premise: " everything the same ".

 

My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.

 

So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.

 

Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas

Surplus Sales of Nebraska. Many values, all small. At least, that was years ago.

@lewm  Interesting experience of yours. I ended up using my teflon film and foil for component level power supply filters. Don't suppose you'll like to sell some of the RTX?

@mijostyn I should have mentioned a possible x - intercept. What you wrote is true if everything is linear and the x - intercept is 0. That is, there is a noise floor.

Without going into referencing Parts being exchanged. 

My experiences had where Voicing Phonostages and Line Level Pre Amp's and even a Tonearm through Internal Wand Wire exchanges as a Signal Path has been that all Voicing methods used will add,

It is how much perceivable addition one is willing to accept as the goal of voicing. 

Again I have heard identical designs used in comparison, with only a few choice components in use changing the base build. 

When comparing for a short duration a change might be discovered that has increased attraction.

Allow a lesser liked model to have a extended play time, and the preferred model is not pined for. 

This is aldi the same with same models and differing VC's. 

Some VC's can pop with attraction. 

Today I look on it similar to CD and Vinyl. 

A short term comparison there are differences detected. Let either run on and neither not being used are pined for. 

Disclaimer: Many periods of comparison are not carried out with myself in a wooden chair. 

My findings might be accused of being compromised. 

 

 

Dear @terry9  : Thank you. Unfortunatelly the fixed ones hasvery low pf capacitance and are NOS so we can't get it in future and along that in reality for different reasons needs a special circuit board to use it.  It's not a true viable " excellent " option for a phonolinepreamp and non-imaginableforcrossover speakers.

In the other side I read somethings about  that kind of capacitors:

 

" One disadvantage of using air as a dielectric in a capacitor is that it has a relatively low dielectric constant compared to other materials. This means that a larger distance between the plates is needed to achieve the same capacitance as a capacitor with a higher dielectric constant material. Additionally, air is not suitable for use in capacitors that require a high level of stability or precision."

that could means bigger dimensions that other caps.

" In summary, an air capacitor would not be a viable energy storage option because the flowing air would not retain a dielectric constant necessary for the capacitor to work properly. "

An air capac is a capacitor that uses air as a dielectric, and this capacitor can be designed in fixed or variable capacitance form. The fixed capacitance type is not often used because there are different types of fixed capacitors with much better characteristics than it, so the variable capacitance form is more frequently used due to its simple construction.

Air capacitors are usually made of two sets of semicircular metal plates, which are separated by an air dielectric material. Of these metal plates, one set is permanent and the other is attached to a shaft that allows the operator to rotate the assembly to change the capacitance when needed. When the overlap between the two metal plates is large, the capacitance is higher. Thus, the highest capacitance condition is reached when the overlap between the two sets of metal plates is maximum, while the lowest capacitance condition is reached once there is no overlap. For better capacitance control, finer adjustment, and higher accuracy, a reduction gear mechanism is used.

In addition, the capacitance value of air capacitors is very small, ranging from 100pF-1nF, while the operating voltage range is from 10 to 1000V. The breakdown voltage of the dielectric is small, so the electrical breakdown inside the capacitor can change, resulting in poor operation of the air capacitor. "

 

So, for me at the endyour adviselooks as useless in practic audio way.

 

Btw, the  self by-passing Multicaps means higher developed inductance that's not good and maybe from therecomes its kind of coloration that's away from the neutral Wima/Vishay or Kemet ones. Only my opinion through first hand experiences.

 

Thank's again, I learned.

 

R.

 

You are most welcome, Raul. I agree with all of that - air and vacuum caps are impractical for standard production and only good for a one-off by an utter maniac with more time than sense. But the results are ... worth it to me.

@terry9 Stated "But the results are ... worth it to me."

Exactly my assessment of the additional time and expense added to my commission built Phon', when Voicing to my liking was a part of the build stage.

After having been demo'd a variety of VC's on a Pre Amp that is quite enjoyed.

I was also left very impressed after a Demo' using a particular expensive VC.

For my own design for this amp, I have had two Bespoke Built Mono VC's of a similar design, but with tighter matching for each channel.

I am yet to use them, but a friend who has them, is using them Temporarily on their builds, using them with a selection of VC's, and really likes the influence. 

@pindac 

Glad it's working for you. Nothing like an experiment to inform an opinion.

A related issue with using air dielectric capacitors in phono stages would be drift as air heats up or humidity changes. Thus it would be difficult to maintain accurate RIAA. On the other hand I guess the pF values in RIAA would be relatively easy to construct.

Raul, no, I cannot say I ever critically evaluated WIMA capacitors, except to say they’re all over the 3160, and I do like the 3160. I’ve not had the urge to tinker with it in any way except for the attenuator upgrade, which you know about.

The idea of having choice is a stimulus.

The extra effort made to produce changes as a result of making choices is a experience of learning.

I was learning all the time, to the point I settled for a particular sonic that was easily able to be Wed.

Once that discovery was made, I could no longer care for what other alternatives to the end sonic may be able to be produced.

I have been contented to this day and not thought about change. 

Dear @lewm  : We need in the RIAA passive trusty ( bullet proof.) parts and the air electric has several issues about and what you can get today are variable value caps not fixed ones. For me it's out of question in the 3180 but I had to learn about and I did it thank's to terry.

 

In the other side audiophiles are not mentally prepared for the almost absolute neutrality with Wima/Vishay/Kemet caps in the audio signal. Almost all audiophiles areaccustom to additional colors other than the natural MUSIC color in the LP reproduction.. Now, if they do not know thatsome of those caps are in the audio signal you can be sure that never will be aware of it and will like what they listened throughly.

 

R.

I highly recommend to anyone who knows how to solder and likes to experiment with different capacitor types that you acquire some Russian silver mica capacitors on eBay and give them a try. They are VERY large for very small values but very inexpensive. I have used.01uF and .022uF values mostly, in an RIAA circuit, and I use one at the inputs of my Beveridge amplifiers. The highest value I know about is 0.13uF, and those are about as big as half a pack of cigarets (if anyone can remember a pack of cigarets). These are absolutely as transparent and neutral as a TI TX2575 resistor. This is not just my opinion; the Russian silver micas have a bunch of followers on TubeDIY Asylum. They generally are rated for 350V, so can be used in most circuits.

I have a box of Russian Cap's for a Speaker Xover design that was put in place for me.

@lewm  : " I have used.01uF and .022uF values mostly, in an RIAA circuit,  "

Was a RIAA circuit designed by you?. In a RIAA circuit using caps adding capacitance ( somewhere ) changes the RIAA deviation curve but if was you who designed it then you made a new calibration and if not that was a very bad " move " even if you like the result.

 

R.

I don’t design RIAA circuitry. That’s over my head. I substituted.022 uF caps into an RIAA that already required .022uF.

Dear @lewm  :Through my audio years I modfied the elctronics I owned but  never touched any RIAA circuit mainly for what terry9 pointed out about in this thread.

Of course that all depends of the manufacturers quality designs and the owner targets.

First issue with the RIAA it's that is not linear but a developed curve whre any frequency change affects around two frequency octaves and this fact means that will introduce a coloration/distortion added that many times and depending of the quality system resolution we can or not aware of it.

It's not only about colorations but RIAA overall deviation.

In our designed units we can't even change a 0.022 uf and not only for all those but we were and are so demanding that going from measured 0.022uf to 0.023uf has a consequence, nothing comes by free depending on that design and your targets and we have to think that that cap is not only the cap but its very close relation ship wwith the other passive parts.

Well, that's me and nothing more than an opinion.

 

R.

Russian silver mica capacitors on eBay and give them a try....

These are absolutely as transparent and neutral as a TI TX2575 resistor. 

This is not possible. Capacitors have phase shifts, resistors don't.

 

When the Pair of Bespoke Phon's, of which I have one in use, was undergoing being built. Part of my commitment to the design was to contribute to the purchasing of parts to be used or tried out for experimental purposes.

As the Prototypes progressed, an increase to the alternate parts to be exchanged were being introduced, as a purely experimental venture.

All selected Parts inclusive of Caps, Resistors were perfectly matched to each other, I can't recall exactly but feel confident the criteria for accuracy was as low as practically sensible to read for the parts. I'm sure one man's cut off for being an accurate match is another man's poison?

The Prototype was under this type of control for part matching from initial build through to final selections being made.

As a supplier of Parts, I found this accuracy at times to be quite costly, as Cap's were bought in excess, with many only to become discards. Resistors were more Pocket Book Friendly.

Additionally when selected Parts were to be exchanged, the exchange part had been exposed to a period of burn in, to give it a improved chance to perform at its best. The EE was even making allowances for new solder needing a burn in period. 

Having Two Prototypes running Parallel as a build, made it very easy to evaluate changes being made as there was only on Phon' receiving the mod's at a time.   

When the end sound was first discovered that was really wanted to be worked on, other parts on the Schematic were swapped out to see how the end sonic was effected.

Valve Bases were swapped, the impact on the end sonic was quite relevant, as different bases were discernible for altering the sonic. The Bases selected in the end, were a Pure Copper Pin design, but were also a design where the Valve fits as if it is almost mechanically fastened. Certainly not tube exchanging friendly. These Bases really stood out on how the end sonic was perceived for being a betterment.

My experience of having been present to assess the impact on the end sound of a Phon' as a result of exchanging components, has been that there are Components that can create a end sonic that is extremely attractive in comparison to an alternate part used, especially one selected for the high spec' and matching.

Not only did I receive a Phon' that has been carefully produced using parts not typically selected for their matched levels. 

I also received a Phon' voiced to my own unique wants using Parts that are not typically selected for the Spec' and matched levels.

Is there really any need to be looking anywhere else to have a experience of listening to Vinyl?

For me yes, do the same once more with a design I have recently been experiencing on a regular basis, but this time postpone the venture to a later date and do to it all once more with a SS Design. 

Why not have the best of both Schematic Types that are affordable to oneself, at their fingertips to be experienced, as Phon' Only, Phon + SUT, Phon + Head Amp.

I know one thing for sure, as result of having Two Bespoke Designed Phon's produced, one Valve Input / Output and SS, by two very very skilled EE's in this field. 

I will still have substantial monies in reserve, through my not using the route of purchasing only one Branded Design of a particular schematic type, that may be able to prove itself as being close as a equivalent to one of my options.

I will state it once more, that the user of a Vinyl Source, who really enjoys their replays, and would like to venture into experiencing a replay that is maybe able to deliver a sonic that is perceived as being more refined to their usual experiences.

DOES not have to spend Stupid Sums of Monies to experience Phon's, that may just prove through being experienced, to be more than enough to be end game keepers. 

I am confident that a selection of Vinyl users, owning commercial Brand Phon's, could sell on these models, and for the monies received or a small addition, get more out in front with a electronic device. If choosing to use a non commercial route to achieve their next Phon' experience.

@pindac When you do go to solid state, I suggest a full complementary push-pull design. A NiCad battery power supply is also beneficial. These are two things you can’t do with tubes, and both matter.

Of course, multiple devices in the first stage differential amplifier from the cartridge to reduce noise. And (discrete) aerospace BJT’s. Last, I would build in filters at about 200 Hz and 50 Hz for woofer and sub - you may need them. I don’t know if you should bother with Bessel, or just go with Butterworth filters. I am building a Bessel, but it gets forced onto the back burner, so can’t tell you how it sounds yet..

Dover, I am aware of the difference between a capacitor and a resistor. By comparing the Russian SSG capacitors to a TX resistor I was only suggesting an analogy as regards the property of transparency. Most regard the TX2575 foil resistor as very neutral and transparent, as resistors go. The SSGs are similar, as capacitors go, in my opinion.

Raul, I am aware that tiny differences in capacitor value can alter RIAA. The SSGs are extremely tightly matched to their stated values, using my Sencore capacitor tester. The caps I replaced were a good match to the SSGs. This was in a tube phono stage, not the MP1.

Terry, when you advised a push pull complementary device, were you thinking about a phono stage? Or an amplifier? Certainly that topology is more commonly associated with amplifier output stage design. In fact, I know of no phono stage in history that used a complementary push pull output stage. Unless you could say that the Atma-spher M P1 and MP3 preamps, which use a circlotRon output linestage might fit that description, broadly. Also, I just wanted to point out sheepishly that you can certainly do a fully complementary push pull output stage with tubes. It’s been done many many times , in the history of our hobby.

Dear friends: Yesterday received a call from the gentleman that came at my place with his CH P1/X1 and ask me for the model of the Astatic cartridge he listened here and tell me that he really still impressed with its quality level through his CH and my phonolinepreamp unit.

Yes, it's something unexpected for a 200 vintage cartridge. I still own the Astatic MF 300 that I think is new because I don't remember been tested, I will do and we will see. 

 

R.

Raul, several years ago I acquired an MF2500 that is in bad shape. In fact Andy Kim advised me not to spend money on it, but I think that’s because he didn’t think it was worth much to begin with. Can you recommend someone? It certainly needs a retip but may need more. Thx.

@lewm Perhaps I am misusing the terms, and you could correct my usage. I am using similar pairs of transistors, NPN and PNP, such as Toshiba 2SC3421 and 2SA1358. Or pairs from the MAT series. Also available on one chip, as in THAT 340.

That’s what I mean by complementary. And since positronic tubes are in short supply ... Is that poor usage? If so, how should I refer to a circuit in which components on the positive rail are pretty much a mirror image of the negative rail?

And yes, in the phono / pre. It’s quiet.

When I refer to an Improvement, Bettered, Betterment.

At no time do I suggest the circuit has been changed, I only offer a comment on how the end sound has been perceived, and if there is a detection it leans toward  my own unique preference.  

In my experiences of witnessing the end result of component exchanges, this is commonly the end assessment.

One on a redesign for a CDP, hand wound OCC Silver Tranx's were added to compliment all mod's already undertaken and experienced by myself.

The Silver Tranx's were awful to myself and had undone a lot of good work in place.

Another listener and the EE doing the mod's were very appraising of the influence.    

Terry, my expertise with solid state is not very high.  And my interests run toward learning about gain stages.  But suffice to say that I followed advice from the late Allen Wright in his "Tube Preamp Cookbook", to learn how to build a balanced, hybrid cascode input stage with a solid state device on the bottom and tube on top. One of the devices AW recommended for that, and what he used in his own TOTL phono stage, is the MAT02, which is a bipolar transistor.  After reading his book, I incorporated such a gain stage into my Atma-sphere MP1 phono section.  Turns out, Raul and Jose' used the MAT02 or similar in their series of phonolinepreamps, for the MC gain stage.  They use an FET, I think, for high output cartridges. (Their phonolinepreamps have two totally separate phono sections, one each for LOMC and MM/MI.)  Anyway, maybe you were thinking about a balanced circuit, rather than "push-pull".  Which of course you can build with tubes, too.

I think I recall that PNP and NPN power transistors can be paired to create a push-pull output stage.  That's the better way to do it rather than with PNP on both sides.  But that is as far as I can recall without opening a book. With tubes, there is no issue. Anyone who wants to correct me is welcome to do so.

lewm, for several years now I've used a JLTi phono stage which was designed, at least in part, by Allen Wright.  Mine is an earlier unit, intended for use with a wall wart.  However, a (more knowledgable) audio pal built a regulated power supply for use with mine which was a worthwhile upgrade.  About that time JLTi began offering regulated power supplies as an option.  Anyway, it is a SS design so now I wonder if it includes the MAT02?

Regarding the performance, early on I took my unit to a friend's to participate in a phono stage shoot out with about five contenders (since forgotten most of the others).  Needless to say I was pleased when the JLTi was tied with a Manley Steelhead as the favored sonics by those in attendance.  I've not compared it to anything else lately but still consider it a "sleeper".

I think JLTi is single-ended and all solid state. (Yes?) AW used an FET in his FVP5, which is also SE but tube based. The MAT02 and other similar bipolar was used in his RTP3C, which was his TOTL and balanced. It’s all in his “Preamp Cook Book”, including schematics.

@lewm  I am following the notation on the data sheets, which use wording such as "complement to type XYZ", and of Horowitz and Hill (Art of Electronics Ed 3, 2015, pp106-108). Just wondering if I had misinterpreted..

Agreed about the superb MAT series. I use both PNP and NPN complements in my pre. After AD threatened to drop the PNP's I bought a jarfull and whatever is left over is going in my will !

I found a business in CA that stocks lots of NLA transistors, both NPN and PNP.  I bought both types from them when I was trying to get my Beveridge direct-drive amplifiers up and running, which I finally did do.  Contact "Jameson Electronics".  I forget what city they are in but definitely CA. I can get further info for you if you need it after Googling. MAT02 are NLA also, but I think there are later subs (e.g., MATXX, where X is numerical) that might work; you'd have to read the fine print on the data sheets. I have a small stash of the 02s, but I have never blown one.

Forgot to add, anyone who has had work done successfully on an Astatic or Glanz cartridge, please share. (My reading suggests that Glanz MFG types are similar in design and function to Astatic MF types, and possibly that both of these moving flux cartridge lines came from the same source in Japan.)

Hello Raul, just wanted to say Hi!
I still have the Empire EDR 9 body that you recommended many years ago, that Carver receiver is dead but I am temporarily using a Rega I/O integrated amplifier just for the SS phono section while I save up for a integrated tube amp and the same brands higher end tube phono preamp. I'm glad to see you're still here. I've appreciated talking with you in the past and I remember you fondly.

Dear @lewm  : No, wenever used the MAT 02 even 20 years ago when we started with the Essential 3150 I not even knewnothing about the MAT 02

Our white papers/targets was to design a fully discrete phonolinepreamp ( yes, I know that the MAT02 is a discrete design. ) where we choosed all the cative/passive parts and decided to use bipolars in the input gain with MC cartridges because goes a little better with bipolars than with FETs.

Obviously that it's way more easy to work with FET because bipolars must be in matched pairs what is not so easy to achieve it. Around 6 years latter came the 3160 model using bipolars too at the input gain but with different transistors.The MM stage were where weuse FETs because were more adequated for MM than for MC cartridges.

Transistorand FET devices improved over time and today we have better parts. Now, obviously that MC design works  fine with FETs especially today but even that wefollow taking the time with bipolars and choosing the more neutral devices because even than in theory must be the sameour first hand experiencesis that there are minute differencesin between transistor and Fets.

First timeI been aware of the MAT02/03 was when Ibougth second hand myLevinson Reference 20.6 monobloks and we made it some mods and J.Curl used those MAT in that truly great amplifier design.

 

We, like to choose and listen to all the passive/active parts in the Essential 3180 design.

 

R.

 

Btw, Astatic/Glanz were made by Mitachi but are not exactly the same, for example the inductance in the Glanz is 10mH and in the Astatic 90mH.Mitachi does it under Astatic specs this Astatic was founded in1930.

 

Here my retipper source:

Cartridge_Retipping@outlook.com

 

R.

@lewm : The 2500 was the top of the line and builded before the latest Astatic Series 100 where my MF200 belongs. Btw, the inductance in the 2500 is a little higher at 120mH against the 90 mH in the MF 200. The stylus in the 2500 was as in the MF100 line contact where in my 200 is Shibata shape.

Btw, normally when I send any of my vintage cartridges to a retipper I look that Joseph Long try to mantain the cartridge as near original and normally too I ask to change only the stylus and never the cantilever.

That 2500 I owned and is truly fine performer. Good luck with .

 

R.

Dear @groovey : Good that you still have that Empire cartridge that’s very good performer. I still own almost all Empire models but the EDR that I sold, the best of my Empire is the 4000 DIII that’s excellent. The flyer in the link is interesting on the 4000:

Empire 4000 Wide Response 4-Channel Cartridge Manual | Vinyl Engine

 

Btw, I like your 240Ti, in those times I was behind the top trapezoidal shape ones but I never had the kind of money to do it.

 

R.

Raul I was very lucky, I was in the Netherlands and we had a stereo club at the base exchange, and we got very good prices and a no interest layaway , I bought the 240 TI's for a bargain price. At the time one dollar was 31/2 guilders.  It was a Dutch base, one guider had the same buying power as one dollar for most things on base.
I've carried them all around the world and back. I have my eye on some second hand equipment I don't want to say which here in case anybody goes for it before I can close the deal but as soon as I get the phono pre I will be in touch to see what you think would be a good upgrade. When I received my first Empire EDR 9 MM it was welcome to the New World, Turn table dot com has a tech approved replacement BLISS Shibata stylus for the EDR 9 if that interests you. I may go with the clear audio V2 and trade in my V1, but I will be looking for a nice moving coil to compare for myself to see if moving magnet and moving coil in the same price range are comparable, or if moving magnets are superior for the same money!

 

Thanks, Raul. Joseph is a good guy. I’ll contact him. I actually have an extra stylus assembly in which the metal structure along with cantilever and stylus have come unglued from the brown plastic yoke that supports them. Last night I looked at both styli under my microscope. I can’t see any sign of severe wear on either but the cartridge sounds bad(with the intact stylus assembly, of course). 

Dear @groovey  : The Empire is not a MM cartridge design but a MI and I made that same mistake in my review of the Empire 4000D3 that we can read in this link: Btw, Empire Scientific was not the builder of its cartridges but Nippon Azden that designed its own Azden great cartridge lines MI and LOMC cartridges.

Good to see you again in Agon:

 

Audiogon Discussion Forum

 

R.

 

 

@lewm  :  J.Long is not a " useless " re-tipper as Andy Kim that he takes a cartridge work when he can made the re-tipin 24 hours and when exist some trouble like with your Astatic he said is not " worth "  and as you that's my first hand experiences with him, he does not exist to me any more.

I think that you have to send all what you have about to JL and that be he if  still can repair it,

 

R.

I've got an NOS Empire 4000D3, too, bought during the heyday of the MM cartridge thread, after it was announced that some vendor had a supply of them.  I must say until now I did not know it was an MI type. Nor do I think I knew that Azden was MI. Ya learn something new every day.

@terry9

Thank You for your suggestions in relation to considerations for a SS Build.

I express an interest in SS as a already built design and one that has a Steadily Growing Interest and Customer Base.  

FTR, I don't need anything Audio Equipment wise to improve on where I am. I have got of the Bus on my Audio Journey, my Stop was found.

That said, I enjoy Audio, Audio Enthusiasts and Audio Equipment Designer / Builders, I spend more time listening with Audio Minded Individuals, experiencing  their creations for their systems. Or experiencing the EE work of another, as a design evolves through prototypes to an end product.

My interest in the SS Phon' is not that I believe it will be a betterment over anything I have. Even if it does supersede others to become the go to device as a Built In MC Input, or SUT > MM Input / Head Amp > MM Input.

What matters to myself, is that I own something that has a Legacy. I have been part of the stages of selecting Components (even had suggestions adopted) as well as have had a input to the Topology.

I have been privileged throughout the years to have been demo's numerous very adept designs for a Phon' in all Types, SS, Valve Input/Output, Valve Hybrid.

Many have been encountered using very attractive supporting audio equipment as a period of Comparison Demonstrations (Bake Off).

When it comes to the selections I have made for my own Phono Amplification, I am contented with my choices, and confident they are difficult to surpass, but I am sure much more monies will find devices able to surpass them.

For myself and how I like to build to a Purchase, such devices with such additional expense, will fail in convincing me they will Supersede what I own.

For many many years I have analysed sound, and had an amount of guidance on how sound produced as a result of Audio can be produced, and where it is to presented at its most attractive. I take it that for this reason, I receive many invites to experiencing Audio Equipment in use, especially honing it down to the Design Build be carried out. I am not in no way an expert, but have ears that are from a broad spectrum of Audio Related Listening Experiences, where some of my comments offered are noted and in cases attempts are made to address.

Today, I am different, I view Audio Sound as Noise with an intent to Entertain, there the noise offers up a Pleasantry to the Experience being had.

I see using audio equipment as means to experience Music in the poorest way I would like to experience music, but by selecting a dedicated audio system of the level put together, it becomes the best option for me to listen to music, if not experiencing it as a Live Performance. 90% of my listening to Music in my home is using other Electronical Types of Audio Equipment that is cheap and does not compare to the dedicated Audio System. The Cheap Audio System is equally as artificial and equally as enjoyable to experience music on, as it is experienced in the Company of individual's that are enjoyed and a Pleasure to be with.

Listening to music in the Company of others who are a Pleasure to be With, has been my goal in audio for the best part of 20 years, when I turned my person from  being a sole locked away in room listener. 

When it comes to sound today, for me anyway, it is much more about having a broad palette.

If an invite is made to attend a get together on a Bleak Winters Morning, who would not turn down a session by a Log Fire with Audio Equipment adorned with the Glow of Valves, Friendly Faces and Laid on Lunch, pure Audio Experience Bliss, with no agenda other than enjoy the encounter.

If an invite is made on a Morning in the Spring, where the Sun is up high at approx' 9.00am, I can't think of a better place to be than in thick of a natural environment, as isolated from man made sound as possible, absorbing all the sound that Nature can carry to me.

And then the other side of the coin, nearly every Friday evening, I leave my work place a little earlier than usual, not because it is Friday, but to, experience the Buskers who perform only once in the week, being the Friday, on the Train Station I travel from. I have experienced Live Acoustic Weekly on more occasions than I can count. Guitar, Cello, Violin, Trumpet, Drums, Vocal's, Choir, Bands are all experienced on a Friday.  I have paid to hear music be produced in many Venues, from acoustic, rock, orchestra, Choir. Meeting the same presentation in Public Spaces from Buskers or Charity Organised Performances is equally as pleasant and only costs the donation offered up.

Life really is too too short to become extremely narrow minded about tools to produce Music as an artificial produced sound and the artificial sound produced.      I refuse to be restricted in where I achieve sound that has a stimulus that has an attraction. 

Music is being produced everywhere, experiencing it at the source it is being produced at, is a real life experience, a Stimulus with an attraction and a memory made. Taking such an encounter and then squandering one's little time on earth, trying to recreate it as a artificial sound, in a completely different people less environment, on a electronic equipment, designed with an end game to move air, resulting in a produced sound, well what can I say, 

" Each to their own, but I have much more in my mind, for my time to be used, than spending it on such fantastical ideas".       

If it were not for an Osteopath Appointment this morning, I would be out in nature, and not corrupting the quietness of ambient sound, with the sound of crunching the Keypad, 🕺, the old dance moves need to be eked (crunched) out of me. 

    

    

@lewm  :In those vintage years Azden ( Nippon Azden ) was a cartridge manufacturer as Excel that made it its own cartridge lines and several OEM too.

 Your Acutex was made it by Azden too. Both MM and LOMC/HOMC Azden top of the line are first rate quality performers.The MM are P-mount body design.

WellaNOS 4000D3 is really weird today and you need to mount it and give a listening and then share your opinion about.

But more rare is to found out that I own the Empire MC 5 ( I just forgot of this cartridge. )  and never mounted but the " rare " came because this MC model never looks the sun-light.Empire never marketed and the cartridge was designed by Ernst Benz. Other MC that Empire marketed was the VDH design MC 1000 with silver coils.

Yes, this week-end will be dedicated to Empire 4000D3 and MC 5.

Btw, if theMC 5 was not marketed it's a mystery how I own   ? ? ! !

Anyway, time for fun.

 

R.

 

Well, after some research seems that I bought The Empire MC5 at ebay where the seller was Ed Saunders, I think.

 

R.

I'm headed to Tokyo tomorrow morning, so no vinyl for about 3 weeks, for me.

- I will be 70 in 8 weeks.
- My hearing is normal for my age, some mild roll-off above 4Khz.
- I have tinnitus caused by arthritis in my jaw, cervical stenosis.
- Since listening is as much a skill as it is a physiological phenomenon, I don’t experience that much roll off in my hearing capacity. I hear much better than my 63 year old wife, and better than my 42 year old daughter.
- So, I continue to make affordable investments in my audio equipment. Affordable being a fungible term, for example I recently improved my front end: a Koetsu Leopard, and a Pro-ject Tube Box D2 phono stage. They made a huge difference on the bass end.

- I have been using a Koetsu - a MC - since 1985. I now own a Rosewood Signature, an Onyx as well as the new Leopard.

@unreceivedogma As humans surrounded by the forces of Marketing, we at times get the urge to spend.

Your Brand Loyalty for 40 years in relation to the Phono Cartridge must be very satisfying.

I have remained Loyal to a Bespoke Built 845 Monoblock Power Amp' for nearly 30 Years. The EE behind the design remains a friend to date, and even though not regularly met with, receives a Bottle of Southern Comfort for the Xmas/New Year annually.

Not too many years past, I had to have a medical that was inclusive f a hearing test, that got my attention, I made it known about my interest in Audio, the assessment was my investments made in Audio Equipment are still worthwhile.      I take there was much of the listening frequency detected by myself.

I take life neat, no Alcohol, Tobacco or Self Medication.

I have always kept the need to function with a freedom as a priority, keeping needs as the priority and the Ego on a reign, no Stupidly Large Mortgage or Stupidly Expensive Vehicle, or Stupidly Expensive Holidays.

I like to think that the few £'s salvaged through such a practice are OK to have a proportion diverted to my interests in Audio and Photography.

With the Grandchildren now becoming the main enjoyment, the bigger proportion of the funds is being redirected towards their being in my life daily. 

Artificial Stimulus is not what it used to be, when entertainment is once more to be had from interaction with young family.        

God Bless @pindac  I'm still waiting for my first.

Back to cartridges. I finally reinstalled the Soundsmith Hyperion MR in my system and ran it for 20 hours. It is a low output, lowish compliance MI cartridge with a cactus spine cantilever and a very impressive looking microridge stylus which is very small and has diagonal cuts in it I assume to lower mass. It has to be the smallest stylus I have ever seen. Initially, it was on the bright side for my taste, probably because I tend to listen at louder volumes. I have EQ capability now and with a slight high end roll off this cartridge is definitely up there with the best. I have to listen more, but my initial assessment is that it is very dynamic, the bass is wonderful and it does not image the third dimension quite as well as the Lyra Atlas SL. Given that you get one free rebuild by the original manufacturer the Hyperion certainly represents a better value. I would position the MC Diamond slightly behind these two, but that is probably due to the phono stage I use. So, Here you have a moving iron cartridge that can play ball with some of the very best moving coil cartridges. I should also add the the differences between these cartridges are extremely minor. Most people would never be able to tell you changed cartridges.