MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?


Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question :  " true " answer.

 

Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.

 

Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.

 

In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread  I remember that he was truly emphatic  posting that my MM conclusion was not  true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.

 

Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.

 

I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.

 

I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind )  MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.

 

So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.

 

I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.

 

We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges  as an " isolated " audio item and that  any of our opinions when be posible  stay in the premise: " everything the same ".

 

My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.

 

So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.

 

Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas

Showing 5 responses by dover

Please offer a mechanism to explain why a “good LOMC suppressed groove noise better than the others”, other than that’s your opinion.

No you are wrong.

@frogman never said that was his opinion.

@frogman posted that this was his experience in his system with cartridges he has used in that environment.

There is a vast chasm between an actual lived experience and an opinion.

Doctors often offer an opinion because they have to cover off the fact that they may well be wrong with their diagnosis. Compare this with their patient who also may have their own opinion on their health woes, but it is only the patient that has actually experienced the ill health in their body and can describe accurately what they have experienced.

 

The answer to Raul's OP question seems to be no, nobody knows which cartridge type is inherently "better".  But most of us have an opinion.

And that's the sad fact about audio forums - there are so many opinions that are not based on actual lived experiences.

There are tens of thousands of posts in this forum claiming cartridge "a" was much better than cartridge "b", but probably substantially less than a thousand where the author actually described what the differences were in some detail with references to music played.

Furthermore  the number of times that someone posts their cartridge comparison and includes information on context - turntable/arm & phono used, would be less than 100.

Therefore many posts are meaningless, other than providing an opportunity for social discourse.

 

 

@lewm

It would appear that Pindac is a devotee of the "new" sciences. If the Paradise identifies as a trans it is all encompassing.

The Paradise is a DIY phono that has a RIAA curve that has been jacked up in the bass ( "a slight enhancement in the lower frequency ranges" according to their website ). From what I can see it has a fixed 1600ohm MC input and you use loading resistors to adjust the load that the cartridge sees.

Clearly there appears to be some confusion in this thread about transconcuctance and transimpedance.

Transconductance converts voltage ( ex MC ) to current.

Transimpedance converts current ( ex MC ) to voltage.

So I assume ( I’m not a technical guru here ) that

For a transconductance phono they converting the MC voltage to current, followed by a current amplication stage to amplify the signal, and then I would assume coverting the amplified current back to voltage, since most domestic audio components assume a voltage gain device precedes them.

For a transimpedance phono, I would assume they convert the MC current to voltage at the input stage, and then amplify the signal using a voltage amplification stage.

Unfortunately many audio reviewers describe transimpedance phono stages as current gain phonos, which is not strictly accurate. Most are what I assume would be a combination of current input and voltage gain stages.

Of the transimpedance type personally I have listened to at length ( for some years ) to the Nibiru, BMC, Van den Hul Grail SE and a custom transimpedance head amp unit built by Reno Andreoli. The units built by Reto are so good I bought two of them.

The Van den Hul Grail SE and Reto’s custom units are in a different league to the others.

In terms of cartridge compatibility Reno’s cartridges are 40ohms and my units have truckloads of gain for all of my MC cartridges which range from 3-40 ohms. They will amplify any MC from 0.1mv up.

The Van den Hul Grail SE I have set up with both low impedance ( Koetsu/Kuzma ) and medium impedance ( Van den Hul Grand Cru ) - plenty of gain for both. Actually the gain range with the Van den Hul phono is massive and is dialled in to the cartridge using internal selectable settings.

From the owner of both the BMC and Nibiru he has found the matching with cartridges is quite sensitive and can produce different results between the 2 phonos.

 

 

 

 

@pindac 

RIAA that follows:  +0.3db c 20hz and 17khz

This might have been state of the art back in the early 1960's - but not even close today. There are tube phonos today more accurate than that.

You were listening to a RIAA tone control designed for the DIY/DJ market.

Bit like your much vaunted tonearm you keep banging on about which is just a modified Audio Technica AT1010 - nothing state of the art there. Its just a good 1970's tonearm - with upgraded bearings etc but still has major inherent design flaws compared to todays arms and is far from state the art around materials, energy control etc.

 

 

Russian silver mica capacitors on eBay and give them a try....

These are absolutely as transparent and neutral as a TI TX2575 resistor. 

This is not possible. Capacitors have phase shifts, resistors don't.