MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?

@rauliruegas Then, Why does my Atlas sound better in current mode? It also has more gain and a better signal to noise ratio.

OK Raul, Here it is. I prefer very expensive moving coil and moving Iron cartridges, recent ones. There is not an antique cartridge I would care to audition. I do not collect cartridges, I use them up and move on. The best cartridges  sound surprisingly alike. The sound quality of any system is far more dependent on the speakers and room. Asking people what cartridge they prefer is colored by their own preferences and the quality of their system. 

@mke246  It seems none of the cartridge manufacturers think 78s are worth the effort. I use an Ortofon 2M series for 78s. It has a huge bonded spherical stylus. To describe the 78s I have a scratchy would be an understatement. I would love to know what a new unused 78 sounded like. I do have digital examples of Caruso singing that were taken from 78s and cleaned up with DSP. He sounds like he is in a phone booth holding his nose singing into a plastic bag, but you do get the idea. 

@rauliruegas  I think you misunderstood me. By groove velocity I meant heavier modulation, miss-tracking. That brightness is because it does not have RIAA correction. It sounds very vivid which some people like, but it is not natural. 

Great post Raul.

As always there are many roads to Rome. No one cartridge design has been shown to be significantly better. It is all in the execution. I have heard several very convincing MC and MI cartridges. MM seems to lag a little bit behind. I auditioned the Strain Gauge. It is on the bright side do to response irregularities and it will not handle high groove velocities near as well as a MI or MC cartridge will.

I believe everyone should carefully examine new cartridges and any irregularity should be reported to the company immediately. No manufacturer can be perfect 100% of the time when it comes to these microscopic assemblies. Careful alignment is also necessary to produce the best performance. Only the owner will take the time to do this correctly. There are tools that greatly improve accuracy in cartridge alignment. I would like to suggest the WallySkater, the Wally Performance and the SmarTractor as tools that can greatly speed up this process and improve accuracy. 

@lewm  exactly, especially when you consider price.

MM and MC cartridges occupy two distinctly different markets. Buyers of MC cartridges are willing to spend much more money on a cartridge than buyers of MM cartridges. Thus, MM cartridges are a much better value. MM cartridges rule below about $1500. MI cartridges seem to straddle the two markets. I would rather have say an Ortofon 2M Black LVB than any of the low end Hana cartridges. The one huge advantage of high output cartridges is a much better signal to noise ratio which everyone will notice right away.  If you have a MM phono stage and desire to get into the highest level of performance I can not recommend the Soundsmith Voice highly enough. It makes far more sense and will be less expensive than springing for a MC phono stage and cartridge. 

@dogberry  Good to hear. Yes, all of the more advanced stylus shapes VTA sensitive because they have a longer contact patch. You can lose the high end easily. The OCL stylus is more like the stylus Lyra uses in the Atlas. It is not quite as severe as the replicant. Soundsmith's MR stylus is much more like the reolicant, but the Replicant remains the most severe stylus on the market. The GygerS is closest. I have a new Hyperion MR, but I can not really comment on it yet. It is a little brighter than I like and I will be able to EQ it shortly. Then I will listen more carefully and comment. 

Live Opera in a great theater is an incredible experience. You can't know what the human voice can do until you hear one and it is a great example of what a great system should sound like. Close your eyes for a few minutes and imagine you are listening to a stereo. Detail the sound in your mind, a mental note. 

I might also add that from my perspective tracking performance and detail are most important. With the ability to EQ a cartridge you can modify the sound to taste. The Hyperion MR is a great example. It tracks like a bandit and is superbly detailed, but just a bit on the bright side for me. This is easy to fix. Poor detail and poor tracking can not be fixed. 

@dogberry   I am not so sure about the two different end points. I think that is more a characteristic of the LP-S. It has been my experience that the best cartridges of each group converge. Any sonic differences are mostly due to minor differences in amplitude response. At this moment my gold standard is the Atlas SL. From the listening I did with the Hyperion MR I suspect that once I EQ it it will sound very much like the Atlas. 

@lewm I suspect I listen at louder levels than you do and are more irritated by phono stage hiss. The hiss is a problem coming from the phono stage not the cartridge. Obviously with higher output cartridges this is not as much of a problem. Phono stages that will gracefully amplify very low output cartridges without audible hiss at say 95 dBSPL are very expensive. My point is that you can get even better signal to noise ratios out of high output cartridges and much less expensive phono stages. 

That "lean" characteristic you note with LOMC cartridges is not universal. I would never describe the Atlas, MC Diamond or Signature Platinum as lean. However, MI cartridges can easily perform at the same level. As I have mentioned on many occasions, the Soundsmith Voice can give any cartridge a run for the money using much less expensive phono stages. People speak well of the Grado Epoch and I had a Statement at one point for over a decade. It was a very enjoyable cartridge. I also suspect that less expensive MI cartridges can perform very well like your Nagaoka. Now that I also have a MM phono stage I plan on trying one. 

@lewm  The MC cartridges I have do not have any problem tracking. They range from medium to low compliance. The lower compliance cartridge uses the highest VTF, but it also has the largest contact patch. Higher compliance cartridges track at lower VTFs, but it seems they are all capable of handling 80um @ 315 Hz. 

@mke246 The Armstrong sounds great. None of my 78's sound that good. It sounds pretty much like the Caruso I have, all midrange. Are you using a pop and click filter?

@dogberry Good for you. The Decca is a purely British view of the situation. Nice idea until you try to use one. It did not survive in the market for rather obvious reasons once you use one. Some people swear by them. Human's are strange creatures. 

@tomic601 There is a strong argument for MI cartridges outperforming MC cartridges. I wound up using both and my reference is a MC cartridge. The Soundsmith Hyperion MR has the most advanced stylus shape I have ever seen. 

@pindac So, what's new?

@rauliruegas Correct, the SG sound's bright because it does not follow the RIAA curve accurately. That has nothing to do with the fact that it can not track well. I sat with Mr Ledermann for 2 hours discussing and listening to the strain gauge and he freely admitted the SG does not track as well as his MI cartridges. The Hyperion will handle twice the velocity the SG will. He relates the hardest part of designing the SG was getting it's tracking up to the level he could sell it in good conscious. He also relates the SG is kinder to shellac masters causing less wear. I'm not sure how this can happen, but this is coming from him, not me. 

@rauliruegas I have talked recently about the Clearaudio Charisma which I have owned. It is a fun cartridge for rock and roll because it is very dynamic and has great bass, it is also dark, tilted towards the bass. The Voice is a better tracker and is dead neutral. I set up a few inexpensive ATs for friends and I thought they sounded great for the price, but the build quality was questionable. One had a positive rake angle of 76 degrees, comically way off. It was returned for replacement.  The Goldring 1042 is the best current MM cartridge I have recently heard, but not in my system and I have not been able to examine one under the microscope. I am not going to go out and purchase a pile of MM cartridges on a lark. My own experience suggests to me that the more expensive cartridges have better overall build quality which should not surprise anyone. In short, I have heard MI cartridges that can compete with the best LOMC cartridges. I have yet to hear a MM cartridge that can compete with the best LOMC cartridges. People will talk lovingly of old MM cartridges as if they were better than strawberry rhubarb pie. I have not had that experience so I can not comment. Back when I had those cartridges, Stantons, Empires, ADC's, Shures, Pickerings and B+O's, my system was not near what it is today. I do find it interesting that my favorite cartridge was the B+O. Go figure. 

Next I am going to find out just how good or bad these new R T R prerecorded tapes are. I was just given a Nagra IV-SJ! What a beautiful little thing. It's  outboard power supply is dead. I have a new one coming. Once I am sure everything is working I'll get the 10.5" adapter set and try a tape. If it does not sound as good as people say it does it will still make a handsome display piece. I do not intend on recording anything myself which is a good thing because it only takes these crazy scientific microphones. I would have to buy an outboard microphone pre amp. 

@rauliruegas I can only talk about my experience and I do not have access to all those cartridges and never will. 

A boron tube may have a frequency response to 120 kHz, but the best a stylus can do is about 70 kHz. The best my ears can do is 16 kHz at last count about a year ago. 

No cartridge has bettered the Atlas Lambda SL in my system running in transimpedance mode, but the selection is admittedly small. 

@mke246 Great work! You should offer digital files for sale. I already have processed recordings of Armstrong's Hot 5 and Hot 7 bands along with some operas. I can record records to the hard drive and remove some pops, but I do not have the time or patience to do it. My wife keeps me in the shop making cabinets and furniture. My only project are the model 4 subwoofers which after a year are almost finished. 

@rauliruegas Perfect for you, but then that is all that counts. 

The difference between 50 kHz and 100 kHz is one octave, an octave not a single one of us can hear, not to mention most loudspeakers can not reproduce. The Koetsu of the day sounded better to my ear than the DL1000. After about a week in the store the DL1000 failed internally. Shortly thereafter Denon released the DL1000A. It also had a ridiculously low output. 

I can sit on a wooden bench and listen to music.

Here again I am going to disagree with Raul. Nobody in the store though the Denon sounded better than the Koetsu. Perhaps this was an example of groupthink. The cartridge did not last very long, perhaps more listening would have changed some opinions. 

I suggest @rauliruegas you review oculomotor neuroanatomy and physiology. Our eyes and ears talk to each other, anyone who has experienced vertigo knows this. When the ear gives the brain false spatial information the eyes start bouncing horizontally and the person feels as if the room is spinning. Closing the eyes improves the situation although it does not get rid of it. Visual cues distort the image. Some animals like whales are ruled by their ears. We are ruled by our eyes. Taking the eyes out of the equation by closing them or turning off the lights improves audio image definition. The effect is purely on the image not the amplitude response. I suggest everyone try it. When seriously evaluating a system I always close my eyes. When listening from the listening chair I will always have my eyes closed unless the music is coming from a video. 

Nearfield listening to multiway speakers is not a good way to evaluate a system as you begin to hear the individual drivers. You can do this with headphones and full range drivers but not multiway speakers. By nearfield I mean closer than 3 feet.

@rauliruegas  Of course all multi driver speakers do not perform the same, but they are multi driver speakers nonetheless and separate the audio band which is noticeable as you walk up the speaker. One of the cool things about full range ESLs is this does not happen. You can never tell that you are close to the speaker.

When visuals match what you are hearing, eyes open is no problem such as concert videos and small live venues. At large concerts, stadium concerts, the reverse happens. The audio is Mono. There is no audio match to the stage positions. Because Vision is our dominant sense this does not bother us as much as no visual to the audio. Listening to Herbie Hancock's Sextant with eyes closed or in a darkened room is an other worldly experience. 

Because I can't listen to every cartridge out there I am not interested in the quality of performance of my system? So, the Atlas SL, MC Diamond and Hyperion MR are second rate cartridges? I spent a year building 4 extremely high performance subwoofers and I do not care about the performance of my system? Right. 

@pindac Not really chemical reaction. Read about neurotransmitters and vestibular nucleus. 

@rauliruegas It really depends on the cartridge Raul. The Atlas SL sounds better with a lower signal to noise level in current mode, but the MC Diamond sounds better in Voltage mode. The Hyperon only works in voltage mode. It's great that your 3180 sounds so good. Maybe your friend will purchase one? 

@rauliruegas  It is not the inconsistency of current mode or voltage mode. It is the inconsistency of cartridges. In my experience the cartridges that work best in current mode have an impedance less than 5 ohms. It is generally said 10 ohms, but I think this is overly optimistic. I would not use transimpedance mode with any cartridge with an impedance higher than 3 ohms. Then the performance is definitive. This represents a very small selection of cartridges, the point being that if a phono stage can not do both formats it should not be considered a viable option. 

@terry9 Unfortunately, it is flawed. Not only is the distortion amplified but so is the signal. The distortion remains the exact same percentage. 

God Bless @pindac  I'm still waiting for my first.

Back to cartridges. I finally reinstalled the Soundsmith Hyperion MR in my system and ran it for 20 hours. It is a low output, lowish compliance MI cartridge with a cactus spine cantilever and a very impressive looking microridge stylus which is very small and has diagonal cuts in it I assume to lower mass. It has to be the smallest stylus I have ever seen. Initially, it was on the bright side for my taste, probably because I tend to listen at louder volumes. I have EQ capability now and with a slight high end roll off this cartridge is definitely up there with the best. I have to listen more, but my initial assessment is that it is very dynamic, the bass is wonderful and it does not image the third dimension quite as well as the Lyra Atlas SL. Given that you get one free rebuild by the original manufacturer the Hyperion certainly represents a better value. I would position the MC Diamond slightly behind these two, but that is probably due to the phono stage I use. So, Here you have a moving iron cartridge that can play ball with some of the very best moving coil cartridges. I should also add the the differences between these cartridges are extremely minor. Most people would never be able to tell you changed cartridges. 

@dogberry Give the very acute profile of the MR stylus I would assume it is more difficult to align than the Sussurro. 

@pindac You are going to have to wait another several thousand years. This is a basic characteristic of the human species. Still, the secret to a successful live is learning to have fun in spite of it. 

@rauliruegas Do you think that I do not thoroughly assess the tracking ability of all my cartridges?  A lower compliance only requires a higher VTF and that is not a problem for this stylus profile, More important is the mass of the moving assemblage, which in the case of the Hyperion is extremely low. It will handily handle velocities of 90 um. Just because it is 0.5 dB brighter than other cartridges is not a fatal flaw. It may be an advantage for people who listen at lower volumes.

Every system ever made gets brighter and bassier with volume, just a fact of life, Fletcher -Munson. 

@frogman , Exactly, some equipment or systems are better at conveying the dynamic attributes of a live performance. That is why I use ESLs. People will agree that they have unmatched transient response, but think they are not very dynamic. This come with the experience of hearing older quads and KLH speakers. Give them the right power and remove them from having to output low bass gives you an entirely different situation. 

@rauliruegas That old cartridge is a battle axe constructed with outdated techniques. The cantilever of any good modern cartridge is 1/2 the size and the stylus of the MR is so small you would have a hard time seeing it in a picture like that. Sorry Raul, you can not beat physics. You are thinking like an old a blog man. Your God is amplitude, it has to be flat or else? In the digital world amplitude is plastic, you can adjust it any which way you want. There is no right or wrong, only what you want to listen too. Factors like tracking ability are far more important and it seems you do not understand the relationship between compliance, VTF, contact patch and effective moving mass. Compliance is only one small part of the equation. 

@rauliruegas It is very true that none of our modern day cartridges are near as compliant and track as light as cartridges back in the 70s and 80s, nor should they. The contact patches of modern styluses are far larger and the pressure loading even lighter than it was in spite of the lower compliance and higher VTFs. We discovered that those featherweight tonearms of yor do not sound near as good as modern, stiff, intermediate mass arms which require a lower compliance. I am very happy with the performance of modern cartridges and tonearms and have no desire to live in the past.  Mike

@rauliruegas Raul. you have to be kidding me. The styluses with the largest contact patches by far are the Replicant 100, The Soundlabs MR and the Gyger S. Not far behind are Lyra's Stylus, the MSL stylus and the Soundsmith OLC sylus. These are all modern styluses. I have studied all of them under the microscope and you have seen the pictures. The end result is that even with higher VTFs the actual pressure (PSI) the record is subjected to is lower, in some cases, much lower. Another factor is modern styluses are much smaller and mounted in ways that lower effective mass. All this improves tracking. The lightest assembly is definitely on the Hyperion MR.  

Matching the Effective mass of a tonearm to the compliance of a cartridge is a very simple matter. Just measure the resonance frequency. Nobody today that I know of makes a tonearm like the Infinity Black widow or the Michell Vestigial which in my mind is a good thing. They are way too flexible. The Syrinx PU3 proved in most minds that stiffer tonearms perform better. Thus you have arms like the SAT and the 4 Points. I never liked FR tonearms, they are beautifully made overpriced garbage, but that is me. You like them and a lot of people like them. I also do not like the SAT arm. The Kuzma 4 Point is a much better value. 

Again you have to be kidding me. My entire system is operated digitally including the turntable. The turntable's RIAA correction is digital which is way more accurate and better sounding. Most of my listening is done with ALAC files. The only reasons I listen to records are I have thousands of them, the habit is burned into my brain and I enjoy F-ing around with turntables, bicycles, 911s and Motorcycles, things that go around and around.

@rauliruegas I generally stay away from making those kinds of comments Raul because people have no idea what my baseline is, what my system sounds like. I have no idea what your system sounds like. If you tell me a cartridge has great bass I have no way of interpreting that. Comments like, "low distortion" or "Great tracking" apply to all systems. I mentioned that the Hyperion was a bit bright on my system, a problem I can easily correct with digital EQ. The Hyperion might be perfect for someone with a system that is tilted towards the bass. 

Because I have set up and measured many systems I can assure you that the performance of individual systems is vastly different, even with the best equipment. The result is that people's tastes are vastly different and their assessment of equipment is biased by this making it impossible for me or anyone to interpret what they are saying.  All I can say of my cartridges is that they are all within a hair of each other. They are all great performers from a mechanical perspective. The Hyperion leans towards brightness on my system and I wish the MC Diamond had a higher output level. The Lyra is perfect, no alterations needed......on my system.