MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?


Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question :  " true " answer.

 

Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.

 

Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.

 

In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread  I remember that he was truly emphatic  posting that my MM conclusion was not  true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.

 

Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.

 

I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.

 

I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind )  MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.

 

So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.

 

I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.

 

We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges  as an " isolated " audio item and that  any of our opinions when be posible  stay in the premise: " everything the same ".

 

My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.

 

So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.

 

Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas

Showing 13 responses by terry9

@lewm @jhnnrrs

I have two of the higher end cartridges, a diamond Koetsu and a Grado Epoch. The Koetsu at 1510 hours (minimal stylus wear at 1000 hours by photomicrograph) is exceptional in its smoothness, quietness, resolution, sweetness, and musicality, but not so much on tracking. As a provisional opinion, the new Grado surpasses the Koetsu (at 1510 hours) in all resects, and is a superb tracker. It likes a stiff wand with good damping, but doesn’t work well with sapphire IMO - too analytical for my taste.

I’ll be switching back to the Koetsu soon for variety, when my opinion will firm up. Both are good, one seems better. As for fuzzy ...

Air bearing table and tonearm, battery powered air gap / vacuum capped RIAA, ESL’s.

Don't really need a FET or a SUT to amplify the voltage of LOMC. A well designed BJT  with parallelism and premium parts does it better and just as quietly.

Pindac lists all the things to worry about - good to keep them in mind in a thread like this one.

AT ML180 OCC that can beats any SS MI today cartridges but not only the AT outperforms several cartridge today designs but other MM too as:

Am I correct in thinking that this is your favourite MM? Would you care to say more about why you like it? Transients, smoothness, lack of high frequency emphasis, etc.

 

 

 

I suspect that the biggest single factor in an RIAA stage is the capacitor dielectric. Once you have heard air gap or vacuum, there's no going back. IMO.

I had much the same experience with caps - Wima was quite good, some of the boutique brands not. I settled on Multicap styrene caps as being the most neutral.

As for direct experience and experiment, I can help you there. I did experiments with a break-out box, then on alternate channels of my phono stage.

Since all the good caps use a dielectric with a dielectric constant in the 2 - 2.5 range, and vacuum and air are very close to 1.000, I wondered. I thought that maybe radio stations that used $10,000 caps knew something that I didn’t. Tried those dielectrics in the same circuit as my favoured Multicap and it was no contest: clearer, cleaner, and far smoother (ESL system powered by mono blocks with air bearing / Koetsu front end).

Costly, though. Very bulky. And a wee bit tricky to design for. But worth it, IMO.

PS high pass filter in my crossover aso this cap is two times critical in that electronics as in the RIAA

You can’t be serious.

"Can't be serious" because a phono signal is 1/100 the size of a line stage signal, and any distortion is therefore magnified 100 times before the crossover. That was my reasoning. Do you think that my reasoning is flawed?

Surplus Sales of Nebraska. Many values, all small. At least, that was years ago.

@lewm  Interesting experience of yours. I ended up using my teflon film and foil for component level power supply filters. Don't suppose you'll like to sell some of the RTX?

@mijostyn I should have mentioned a possible x - intercept. What you wrote is true if everything is linear and the x - intercept is 0. That is, there is a noise floor.

You are most welcome, Raul. I agree with all of that - air and vacuum caps are impractical for standard production and only good for a one-off by an utter maniac with more time than sense. But the results are ... worth it to me.

@pindac 

Glad it's working for you. Nothing like an experiment to inform an opinion.