Dear @mijostyn : " There is not an antique cartridge I would care to audition "
I understand you because you have no single idea of the very high quality level performance of someof those " antique " designs ".
Well, several years ago I bougth the Empire MC5 and never listened till in the last 4 months I even did not know that the cartridge is an owner stylus replacement design and I took in count of that when I try to mount in the arm and seen that I can’t put the screws in place ( you can’t almost see the joint between that replacement part. ).
I have to say that I did not had any exiting spectation about other that to take a listen to this vintage design that in reality never appeared in the market as it and I just found out one sample in NOS condition.
After 4 months is the cartridge I’m listening day by day and enjoying truly MUSIC, this is a huge/outstanding discovery of the past no matters what and can beats almost all the today top LOMC cartridges I listened in my room system including the MC Diamond and Etna Lambda SL, yes differences in between these cartridges are not nigth and day but the Empire MC5 is something to listening it and to enjoy its LP reproduction.
The design and build including the stylus diamond was made by Ernst Benz his self,nothing less. What a wonderful MUSIC Instrument.
https://www.turntableneedles.com/Empire-Moving-Coil-Cartridge-MC5-Ernst-Benz_p_752.html
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=16132
" Ernst Benz was an engineer working and developing delicate instrumentation (such as accelerometers) for CalTech in the ’60’s, and later managed an industrial jewel company in Switzerland manufacturing timepiece and industrial jewels as well as sapphire phonograph needles. He formed his own company in the early ’70’s, with the desire to produce a superior diamond phonograph stylus. To further facilitate this, he developed a high temperature vacuum furnace for bonding diamond to sapphire (for which he was awarded a patent). Throughout the ’70’s, Benz Micro became one of the largest suppliers of diamond styli in the world, providing support for such companies as Ortofon, Philips, Pickering, ADC, Audio Technica, and Empire (which was later acquired by Benz). "
MC 5 surrounded with today top room/systems is nothing less that Awesome and could be even today and near future a true challenge to beat it for any cartridge manufactuer.
In reproduction has it any anomalies? none that I detected and maybe because I’m not listening the hardware but enjoying MUSIC.
I think that in those old times I paid no more than 200.00 for it.
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Dear friends: Seems to me that we forgot of one live MUSIC main characteristic that is its natural continuous flow.
That characteristic can’t even in our system because we have no " continuity " in what the stylus pick-up under grooves ride due to those stylus " jumps " ( at microscopic level. ) during tracking.
Obviously that each cartridge has different abilites about and the " flow " of the MUSIC through any of those cartridges has different quality levels.
Btw, @mijostyn this and all the other live MUSIC characteristics are what permits any one of us to evaluate/compare cartridges in between to have each one of us answer or answers to the questions of this thread. Your " reference " on antique and today cartridge models is useless and futile ( for say the least ) because things are that all those MUSIC characteristics function/are working with any cartridge: new or vintage, this is not the matters of the OP and through your 27 posts you touched at least 3 times ( ? ? ? ).
Anyway, what all of you think about that MUSIC flow continuity that I see as a characteristic.
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Dear @theophile : " We know irrefutably that someone is actually singing and someone is actually playing. Even when the sound transmits through a closed building. "
Totally right and the main issue belongs to the live MUSIC kind of transients response that's absolutely UNIQUE and we can't mimic in anyway.
From that unique transient response comes the MUSIC dynamic power that permits to listen and know for sure that the sound coming ( as you posted ):
" There is a quality to a live in the flesh non-amplified voice or instrument. "
Any room system is far far far away of that unique transients response.
Main differences between any room/system and in our thread subject between cartridges belongs and starts to that transient response and its speed.
Mijostyn ( I named because I'm still waiting for.....) could have a different points of view why he thinks/likes his Lambda SL is a " hair " better than the MC Diamond, unfortunatelly he never disclosed in this thread what is his take.
Anyway, only an opinion but again I agree with you.
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Dear @mijostyn : " I generally stay away from making those kinds of comments Raul because people have no idea what my baseline is, what my system sounds like......"
As lewm you have a misunderstood of what I ask through my post because I don´t care ( well, I care but it’s not what I posted to you ) how your sound system is in the same way that that was not the thread questions.
As those posted other gentlemans statements main sound Characteristics are what could makes the differences why we like more this kind of cartridge than other or others because what we like is not the main issue of this thread and maybe you have additional whole listen characteristics that you can share with us. This is all about.
We have to have specific references when we make tests MUSIC/sound comparisons/evaluations. not only on cartridges but with any audio item.
For some or many of us those posted statements is the " food " that is already in each one table ready to eat, maybe not for you because exist other main characteristics that you have and we need to take in count or maybe you are in agreement with and nothing to add.
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Dear @mijostyn You posted 25 posts in this thread and knowing you and your experience levels is truly weird that in no one of your posts mentioned the characterisitcs of the sound you listen in your system that permits that you can have and overall evaluation and comparison in between any audio item that in this case/thread is about cartridge kind of motor design quality valuations in between. You only said that your Lambda SL is your champ because you say so and that's all even that some gentlemans posted the next statements that permits more or less to have an idea what to take in count to give each one of us answers to the thread subject:
" Startling attack, immediacy, presence, full-bodied tonality, dynamics, and imaging. "
" MUSIC and MUSIC quality levels belongs to Transient Response in a home audio system or live MUSIC.
That Transient Response is what gives us first than all immediacy followed by dynamics. "
" without rhythmic integrity music is pretty meaningless. "
" “fast transient speed” is closely tied to how well the rhythmic elements of the music are expressed "
Yes, I would like to know what do you think on those statements and if you can add something else to enhance the dialogue for all of us. Thank's in advance.
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@lewm : I agree with @frogman , it's not " immediacy " where this characterisitc exist even in mistracking.
It's like in horn speakers where we have that immediacy kind of sound that does not changes during cartridge mistracking.
My first hand multiple experiences with my cantileverless Ikeda cartridges tell me that those kind of cartridges could not pick-up all the grooves information as medium/high cartridge compliance due that its grooves ridding is not do it with " aplomb "..
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Dear @lewm @frogman : So,more or less we agree about the way critical importance of the SPEED transient response.
In a live MUSIC event between you and the MUSIC exist almost only the AIR when in a home audio systems it's a nightmare about and transient speed reproduction is way to way different and totally imposible to achieve that grat dynamics and power that only live MUSIC has.
Both audio proccess recording and playing almost destroy MUSIC, even that we like what we can listen through.
We can't do nothing with the recording proccess but we can take extreme care for the room/system play proccess.
So, if we agree of the importance of the transient response speed then we must be in alert that the audio signal trip from the cartridge to the speaker output be the shortest as we can:less is more.
Our system set upshould has only the system links neccesaries to listen it. Any additional cables,connectors, after market " enhancers " and the like will modify and and develops a degradation to that transient response speed and I think that could includes the SUTs.
I can't know what you or others think on this specific system set up issue and obviously opinions are welcomed.
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Dear friends: Through the posts that all of youposted we, more or less, are in agreement that evrything the same wecan have first rate/top quality listen system experiences with the different kind of cartridge motors:MC, MM, MI etc, etc.
Obviously that with the cartridge self colorations.
Well, I was doing some testsusing the top same LP tracks with different choosed LOMC,HOMC,MM,MF,MI. trying to find out ( other thmaiat its intrinsecal cartridge colorations. ) where mainly belongs the quality levels of each top cartridge sample and I think ( something I'm not totally sure. ) that comesfrom the " kind " of transiente cartridge response this is the Speed of that transient response.
Is it that way of think about true or just does not matters? whatdo you think abou
t? I would like to learn through your first hand similar experiences.
Thank's you in advance and your posts heavy welcomed.
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Dear @theophile : That you mentioned that is extremely appreciated and yes I could czan test and compare against the 981 what the HZ does but I think that before that we can interchange information where maybe I can help for you can listen in your system:
rauliruegas@hotmail.com
Thank's and again truly appreciated,
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Dear @theophile : I think that some of the gentlemans that posted about in AK have a misunderstood because never existed the Streohedron III ( as one of them named. ) and : why now I that?
because the dimensions of that III version in the Epoch 9S is exactly the same dimensions that comes in my Stanton 981 HZ MK2 and same cantilever length.
In the other side and looking the SR , your calibration data and my manual and calibration card seems to me that the cartridges you own as I told you before are very good performers but at least for the information not superior to the 981 MK2. Obviously that I can’t confirm it but through my first hand several experiences with any kind of cartridges there is " nothing " that could tell me can beats the 981MK2 ( HZ. ), even my sample cartridge seems/could be better because Stanton says that its high frequency goes over 50khz and in the Epoch 9 stops at 50khz ( important?. I don’t think so but is " something . Other issue is that in the SR JH said that for the Epoch could track the Telarc 1812 it did it only at VTF 1,25grs. and mine does it cleanly at 1.0gr. and I never tested at 0.75grs. on VTF but I will do some day because at the end it tracks 100u.
All in as every day is a learning day and this one was and is a learning onr for me.
Than’ks again and surely I will wait for your first hand experiences with.
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Dear @theophile : Good/nice to meet you again in Agon.
No, unfortunatelly I never had the chance to listen in my system but were Stanton top of the line in its times as were the CS 100, both 981 II and Pickering 7500.
All those share with the Epoch the same famous Stereohedron stylus and all those are the only Stanton/Pickering cartridges that came with that individually Calibration Card reserved for the top models.
I still own the 981 HZ that I use with the Pickering stylus holder because it makes a better/tigther asssemble with the 981 body than with the Stanton own stylus and performs a little better.
I only can add that you are lucky enough the own two very good MM cartridges that even today are way competitive under any quality standards.
Btw, when I started and through the years in that long MM thread I seen on Ebay for sale and never pull the triger due that I owned all its other " brothers ".
I think that you will like it when you can give a listen sessions and if you can could share with us your experiences with in this thread or the long MM one.
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Another one interesting cartridge information from a true expert. This gentleman is the retipper I’m using and is a great one: Joseph Long.
Btw, the Goldring 1042 uses a similar stylus diamond that the Replicant 100 however its VTF is only 1.5grs.
@needlestein is the Agon moniker of J.Long.
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@mijostyn : No,I'm not kidding you the subject is that you think that because you have a " super-microscope " that makesyou a cartridge expert but certainly you are far away from be a cartridge expert not even with decent knowledge levels.
" contact patches " : Replicant 100 is the FG 100 ( Gyger ) that came in the Ortofon Bronze/MC Diamond with VTF at around 2.5grs. but the Cadenza Blue comes with a way smaller " contact Patch " FG70 and VTF is exactly the same Ortofon recomendation.
I heve not time right now to completemy answer that I will latter but the anterior information says that:" Are you kidding me? ".
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Dear @mijostyn : I don’t know why you are following posting no-sense information almost false and un-true.
Medium mass tonearm " require lower compliance ": totally false at any audio standard.
I own amodern mediummass tonearm and several vintage medium tonearms, I know what I’m talking about. You can ask lewm how good performs and with which kind of quality high compliance cartridges in his FR64/66.
" contact patches of modern styluses are far larger ", false again. MSL uses a semi-line contact, Ortofon still today uses Shibata/FG 70/FG80 y FG 100 not even the FG 110/120, Etsuro Gold 80u Micro-Line similar to the old AT cartridges.
Where is the problem then? that today LOMC cartridges are to heavy: your MC Diamond 17.5grs, MSL13grs, etc, etc.
The other problem is that today does not exist the heavy and very hard competence that in the old times cartridge market.
Matsudaira designer MSL cartridges designed too ( example ) Luxman vintage LOMC cartridges with a lower weight than 6grs. and with high compliance as other cartridges as Miyabi or Audiocraft that were not so diferents than the Luxman ( I owned severalof his cartridges including Supex. )
You love analog and tubes so you are living in the PAST not only me, difference is that I truly know how achieve maximum MUSIC enjoyment with that really archaic analog medium.
You know that I respect you but certainly not the false information you are sharing with us.
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Dear @mervo : I don't know what you mean: " removed by the OP ", I did not.
You are totally right with your last sentences:
" our collective audiophile hobby has no price points, just the desire to appreciate music and seek the respective affordable way to attain one's maximum output. "
That's the best each one of us can do. Thank's for share your opinion.
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@mijostyn : It’s not coincidence that the Denon DL1000A not only goes to 110khz but runs at only 0.7grs been a LOMC cartridge but its cantilever that’s a short one is made of amorphous Boron pipe. The Highphonic uses diamond short cantilever and very high compliance to runs at 0.9grs.
Btw, Technics uses a technical: chemical vapor deposition to manufacture its cartridges Boron pipe.
Top cartridges in those times normally came with effective moving mass in the range: 0.098-0.22. Usually. The Technics 20’5MK4 had 0.149 on that parameter.
Today we can’t find out any single cartridge with those kind of numbers or any LOMC cartridge that can runs not at 0.7grs-0.9 not even at 1.25grs
Today times are very good and in the past were truly great specially with cartridges/tonearms/TTs but not electronics. Today are great times in electronics and very good in speakers if not excellent.
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Btw, even today we can find out with a little patience the ADC 26 through ( mainly ) ebay.
The ADC 26 is not exactly for any cartridge because the extreme compliance of 50cu that comes in that ADC design.
I think that all the cartridges ( any cartridge motor kind design. ) named here sooner or latter we can put our hands on it and is worth to try it.
When those vintage cartridges comes in good operation conditions you can be aware of its high quality performance levels and you can get for " penauts " prices.
I know that for several of you vintage is " forbidden " because we want the new ones but at the end: is it not the maximum MUSIC enjoyment through our LPs what we are looking for?
If yes, then new or vintage cartridges can satisfy that MUSIC maximum enjoyment
Don't you think? because in my audio life that's what I wa sand am always looking for but maybe that is only me and for me.
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Dear friends: I forgot to talk of my oldest and a true cartridge gem that I don't listened in a few years and I will do in the next weeks because righ now I'm hooked up by a Ernst Benz colector design where even the stylus was made it by him self.
Here my oldest cartridge reviewed 6 years ago:
R.
Lewm, my mistake because I don't care about.
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Dear friends: The world of cartridges is really fascinating specially if you experienced the whole one over the years like me. I don’t know if any of you has my first hand wide cartridges experiences ( perhaps @dover but I don’t know for sure ).
My MUSIC knowledge levels other that the live MUSIC experiences comes from that cartridges world and it’s from here when that so critical MUSIC characteristics as Transient Response has a true meaning and you know for sure it’s the way it has to be and when you already had those experiences with the best of the best year after year for years it’s nothing but outstanding and fascinating as I said.
Now, imagine a pair of two different LOMC cartridges that runs at 0.7grs and 0.9grs with a wide FR of 110khz and very low output at 0.12mv and that can reproduce with high aplomb and true fidelity the Telarc 1812, go figure !. Yes Highphonic and Denon. Yes, both high compliance at around 26cu, there is no other way ( Physics Laws as mijos said. )
That MM Technics EPC 100CMK4 is not only the one with so low effective moving mass ( the world lowest. ) but with the widest FR range of any cartridge from 5hz to 120khz where only 2 SUTs I know ( one vintage I own and other today design. ) can shows off/brag that kind of wide FR range.
Exist a cartridge that runs as low as 0.25grs VTF with out mistracking that comes with a nude miniature diamond with 1 mil tracing radius.
I’m way fortunate to have all those years opportunities/experiences and that I still today can share with all of you other than the long MM thread.
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lewm: could be so what? Now I see that you trust in those 2 different models that shows exactly same specs?. which one was measured? or were measured both?
Never mind, who cares, not me.
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Btw, I owned or own all those top vintage cartridges that I named.
That Technics MM cartridge can’t be overall beated for any MI design including the AKG P100 LE however the MM AT ML180OCC or the AT25 are a true challenge for it.
As a reality exist several great MM/MI/HOMC/LOMC that came from those old times. Lyra and VDH designers know it.
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@mijostyn : I know for sure that you have not a single hair of stupidity however in an very un-usual way you are posting several stupid things and I don’t know why but in this post I will try to help you again because you know that I appreciated you:
" The cantilever of any good modern cartridge is 1/2 the size and the stylus of the MR is so small you would have a hard time seeing it in a picture like that. Sorry Raul, you can not beat physics. ............................................................................................ it seems you do not understand the relationship between compliance, VTF, contact patch and effective moving mass. "
All of those is totally wrong:
Dynavector 13D came with the world smallest cantilever ever in cantilevered cartridge designs:1.3mm and was not the only one but in those times were the 23R and 17D too or one of the jcarr prefered vintage LOMC that is the Highphonic D15 with a minuscle cantilever and very wide FR range from 10hz to over 85khz where my MC A6 goes from 10hz to 75khz miniature cantilever and both cartridges with 24cu obviously great trackers
Guess what? that even today Dr. VDH reference cartridge is the vintage MM Technics EPC100C MK4 ( stand alone version. ) that came with tube tapered boron cantilever that is less weigthy than the today boron rod cantilevers but that’s not all because this very old MM cartridge comes with a stylus with the lowest effective world moving mass of only 0.098mg: yes you are reading well and yes very high compliance but all these examples are not the only ones there are a lot more and these are only examples for you can learn overall and don’t try to diminished again what I posted in that specific regards in this thread.
Yes,I can’t beat physics and certainly your misunderstood no sense bla, bla, bla, neither can.
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@lewm : Your link shows Mono version. Enough.
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@mijostyn : You are only bla, bla, bla, with out any white paper foundation or any " number ". Your bla, bla, bla, is not enough in this specific regards where this time you are still Wrong no matters what. My posts proved and have the foundation wth vintage and today top cartridges when you have NOTHING to show and you will not.
Your last sentence is totally wrong due that in reality is the other way around. Do you think J.Carr is wrong?. You are wrong, period. Please don’t insist, is useless and you can contaminate other in good shape gentlemans.
Sorry, this time.
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@lewm : I had not previous disagreement because I never touched the eq. RIAA but you, I posted about the cartridge FR 20hz-20khz, you have a misunderstood.
Look, that 36db separation that for you is excellent SS shows it in its site for Mono version to shines a little more but I think that you did not look very well the 3 vintage normal separation real time pictures I linked where at least 2 of them shows better than 36db in stereo fashion not Mono as SS and J.Long said the 4 vintage MC3000MK2 has over 40db and this is not normal but excellent.
Now, I can’t find out cartridge FR charts with a 2b swing 20hz-20khz as the Hyperion one. Here you can see some of those charts that all are even with lower than 1db deviation and even flat, 2 of those charts comes from the same MC A6 cartridge where Highphonic shows it’s flat all over the FR range and obviously flat from 1khz-20khz that’s the range where mainly happens the higher deviations but even there you can see the 103 by Denon 60 bucks " totally flat " in that range. No one of those cartridges has a tag price not even 1/10 of the Hyperion one that from specs is for me a measured in the mediocrity/average, yes for you is excellent;
Raul Iruegas (canva.com)
No, it’s not " off its rails " but the other way around. The right transient response and the other critical characteristics that makes a cartridge an excellent quality performer never comes at random. So and for me the information is in the " rails " and we have to understand it or learn it or confirm what we know. Tha’s all about.
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@mijostyn : You own the 11cu MC Diamond that under real time test only runs the 70u-75u band and its Replicany stylus is 100um that's a little better than the Etsuro in that specific shape.
Look, the Etsuro Gold 20K, Hyperion 10K and the 1979 design ES-10 250 bucks.
Btw, my mistake: the Excel runs at 1.7grs.
Now, please don't misunderstood me because I know that the Etsuro Gold sounds good and the Hyperion too but that's is not the overall issue because for those tag prices it must sounds nothing less than excellent.
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@mijostyn : : this is my vintage Excel ES-10 LOMC cartridge:
and here the made it by Excel Etsuro Gold:
https://www.etsurojapan.com/product/gold
You can see that both cartridges share the same sapphire top plate and that's all.
My vintage design comes with lower output level, runs at lower than 1.5grs, has higher compliance and not came with the today Etsuro Super polished MicroLine stylus shape or the Etsuro diamond cantilever however the ESE-10 can track easily 90u against the little higher 70u in the today Etsuro.
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Dear @mijostyn : Certainly that you are happy with your answer but in true this time you are wrong. Look:
normally the middled of the manufacturer VTF range is where the cartridge shows at its best and at the same time where the cartridge take care it self for the surface LP wear and that prefered manufacturer VTF value is the one used to make all kind of cartridge measures parameters it does not matters the stylus shape where in that manufacturer VTF is already took in count. The cartridge stylus shape per-sé does not defines the cartridge tracking abilities and only tells how deep/good can trace the groove modulations ( if can pick up more or less recorded information. ) but it's the cartridge compliance ( mainly lives in the cartridge kind of suspension where the designer already tooks in count the stylus shape and everything around the cantilever insluding its lenght. ) the one that defines if the cartridge can trace high, higher or to higher recorded velocities grooves and that's it
In the case of the Hyperion all happened at 2.0grs.
Your cartridge can't in anyway trace with out let in touch with the grooves at 90u
not even at 3grs-4grs. with out damaged the grooved LPsurface.
You just can't go from 10cu to 20cu only changing the VTF and with out grooves surface damage. This time and in this specific Hyperion regards you are wrong.
Look, the Excel made Etsuro Gold comes with a specially polished 80ummicroline diamond stylus shape an running at 2grs. it trace a little higher than 70u with a 10cu.
Please do it a favor and don't run your cartridge over 2.0grs
In the past I owned two fantastic LOMC cartridges designed by Ikeda with cantilever-less main characteristic, were the REX 9 and the 9C and where fantastic if and only if the LPdoes not comes with any high velocity recorded grooves because itsmistracking even at the manufacturer higher VTF it its VTF range: just let to stays in touch with the modulations and I had tu sold it.
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@lewm : that cartridge not only not excelin separation but unfortunatelly in no other parameter.
After FR themostobvious and important cartridge parameter is its tracking abilitiesand in this critical parameter that cartridge is far away with that so low compliance level. Excellent trackers ( 90u-100u ) even for 85u needs over 20cu .
High tracking cartridge abilities is what MUSIC reproduction needs no matter what. Everything is important but flat FR and tracking levels are more important to achieve top quality reproduction levels. in analog, remember: the cartridge is the MUSIC Source.
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@lewm : I remember your same doubt about cartridge dead flat FR and I remember too that @dover posted a link witrh the FR chart of his beloved Dynavector 13D that showed dead flat FR and as I said exist several cartridges with that kind of quality levels.
In the other side you posted that that cartridge " excels on channel separaion and other parameters " where the manufacturer just does not hows those measures.
Here you can see a real time measures in 3 diferent vintaje LOMC cartridges where Joseph Long re-tippiped ( change of stylus only ) and you can see excellent separation in cartridge channels that was something normal and not something " excellent " as you posted:
Cartridge pictures Raúl (canva.com)
Along those I sended to him the vintage Ortofon MC3000 MK2 and he eail to me:
"
and this is what Joseph email me along the picture:
" the Ortofon is testing very impressively. Over 40dB channel separation. Excellent sound. "
the picture:
Imgur: The magic of the Internet
and that cartridge has a hole in its body side, yes a hole.
You need to learn a little more about cartridges measures and history about. Your today way of thinking has no foundation.
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Dear @lewm : " The only thing that counts is listening. " really?
" For a cartridge, +/- 1db between 20 and 20khz would seem to be excellent, keeping in mind we’re not talking about RIAA accuracy " really?
Please keepin mind that other that the LP the cartridge is nothing less than the SOURCE from where comes the MUSIC and is for me way more important that even the RIAA eq.accuracy and keep in mind too that that cartridge price tag is 10K not " penauts ".
Transient response along all the otherMUSIC reproduction desired characteristics starts in the cartridge as starts some of the added " colorations/distortions " .
I owned and own alot of cartridges:LOMC,MM,MI, HOMC and the like and I have a lot of cartridges FR charts with measuresat that FR range/crosstalk temperature during the measures VTF used and other parameters where you can see that several any kind of cartridge motor designs its charts show " dead flat " frequency response and the manufacturers gave to the customers these kind of information due to its critical importance.
Sorry, because I know for sure you are not stupid, but could be an stupidity to talk of "listening " or " excellent " FR when the owner ( forgeret about charts.) posted that HF brigth that he had to tamed thrhoughhis digital processor.
A cartridge must has dead flat FR in that frequency range. Ortofon is an exception because they do in purpose the FR deviation that I explained here in the forum several times why Ortofon does that.
In the past mijostyn showed a constant way of thinking and showeda demanding attitude in audio but in the last times he showed some of that " conformism " ( as you ) but I know that he is not conformist but the other way around. In the other side we can be sure that he does not paid those full 10K for that cartridge.
Btw, Where in " hell " is that " proudly " cantilever resin for damping. From where comes that " brigth " andother things?
Btw too, I posted a Swing of 2db. Anyway 1db FR deviation at any discret frequency affects the surrounded frequencies too and for me is unacceptable for all what I posted here and several other reasons.
Don't you think?,my opinion only just like yours.
Of course that I can be totally wrong but all those is what make sense to me.
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Dear @dogberry It’s not try to dinish that cartridge because the real issue is deeper in the whole audioworld.
Take cartridges and please name it others than Lyra that really did it something real to up-grade this archaic medium that for been archaicis really a pain in the ass up grading.
Take TTs and other than the @richardkrebs K3 all is more of the same. Example Tech-Das a " rethinked Micro Seiki " at astronomical price tag. The SAT is in essence a Technics SP10.
Tonearms? please name itone today design that can compete with the EPA 100MK2 by Technics.
Now, not only audiophiles arebuying more of the same and even inferior that " the same " with lower quality reproduction at extremely high prices and unfortunatelly exist thousands of audiophiles willing to buy it and ceratinly they bought it.
Severalaudiophiles are waiting for the come back of Decca cartridges.
My home audio system performs at truly top levels with no single today ( other that our Essential 3180 ) audio item, not even atoday cartridge because the vintage ones Iown are very very good.Yes, at priorimy whole system is obsolete and archaic but competes with any $$$$ top system out there, my room/system truly honot MUSIC reproduction and this is at the end all about Ilook for and yes I’m way demanding and with out conformism other that what the life impedes.
dogberry the price tag of that cartridge is 10K and its frequency response 20hz-20khz hasaswing of 2db. Go figure of what you are paying and additionala bad tracker ! ! ! ! ? ? ?
I'm not against the manufacturer he has not the culprit about, it's his design and gentlemans buy it knowing those.
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@mijostyn : Yes your Hyperion compliance is only 10cu, so in no way can even your rule of inferior limit tracking 80u. With that low compliance you can be lucky with around 70u this cartrisdge is a " bad " tracker and in this thread several gentlemants are in agreement of the critical importance of transient response all over the LP surface grooves does not matters the recordedd groove velocities and to achieve that transient response ( where MUSIC begin. ) the cartridge needs to has high tracking abilities.
You was extremely emphatic when in the Dava thread @mikelavigne posted that you need to test the Etsuro Gold and you said: never will bought a cartridge with at least minimum 80u on tracking spec.
That it’s not only an issue with that cartridge because talking of its cantilever the manufacturer says and a reviewer:
" “cactus spine” for the cantilever. The naturally tapered shape, stacked columnar fibers and desiccated resin damping fit the exact parameters of the perfect cantilever: Low mass, extreme rigidity, internal damping, and tremendous strength. "
"
its cactus-spine cantilever, an innovation motivated by the German engineer Frank Schröder, an expert in vinyl playback, a designer of tonearms, and a consultant to Ledermann. It may sound like a gimmick, but it’s not.
Soundsmith doesn’t specify the genus and species of cactus used, but claims that its spines combine the qualities most desirable in a cantilever: stiffness and damping. The spine’s stacked, longitudinal, columnar fibers are further damped with a desiccated resin. A. "
How those gentlemans can confirm those " desired " cantilever characteristics? over Boron or Diamod for example and that " resin " what and how is dampening and why need we that damping exctly in the cantilever?
In the other side the cartridge has not a wide frequency response for its price tag.
Dear friends, in several ways and through the time we audiophiles are way lower demanding and way conformist on the quality reproduction of almost all the audio items, more and more less demanding and with that conformism and that’s why manufacturers give us that so low quality products and we are truly satisfied with. In the past, say 30 years ago, any one of you can be sure that no audiophile at any price will be willing to buy a cartridge like the one in this post.
Almost the best TT’s/tonearms/cartridges came from the old/vintage times when audiophiles were really demanding. Those vintage analog items even today outperforms almost all today top ones like it or not that is the reality and if we audiophiles don’t improve way over today in the near future we have to eat only bs. and I’m sorry to tell it because I’m a member of the audio community.
Come on: Wake UP.
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Dear @mijostyn : " it was on the bright side for my taste, probably because I tend to listen at louder volumes. I have EQ capability now and with a slight high end roll off this cartridge is definitely up there with the best "
SPL is not the cause of bright cartridge reproduction, higher SPL only increment the cartridge bright trouble.
In the other side you said that after using your Eq.processor is " up with the best " and I repect your opinion but for me a due of that Hyperion so high price tag sorry to say it but it's a " crap " of cartridge to compete with the " best ".
I know that severalowners are satisfied with but that " scenario " after your post means almost nothing. I listened once in an " unknow/no-experienced " system and have not a " trusty " opinion.
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Well, after some research seems that I bought The Empire MC5 at ebay where the seller was Ed Saunders, I think.
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@lewm :In those vintage years Azden ( Nippon Azden ) was a cartridge manufacturer as Excel that made it its own cartridge lines and several OEM too.
Your Acutex was made it by Azden too. Both MM and LOMC/HOMC Azden top of the line are first rate quality performers.The MM are P-mount body design.
WellaNOS 4000D3 is really weird today and you need to mount it and give a listening and then share your opinion about.
But more rare is to found out that I own the Empire MC 5 ( I just forgot of this cartridge. ) and never mounted but the " rare " came because this MC model never looks the sun-light.Empire never marketed and the cartridge was designed by Ernst Benz. Other MC that Empire marketed was the VDH design MC 1000 with silver coils.
Yes, this week-end will be dedicated to Empire 4000D3 and MC 5.
Btw, if theMC 5 was not marketed it's a mystery how I own ? ? ! !
Anyway, time for fun.
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@lewm : J.Long is not a " useless " re-tipper as Andy Kim that he takes a cartridge work when he can made the re-tipin 24 hours and when exist some trouble like with your Astatic he said is not " worth " and as you that's my first hand experiences with him, he does not exist to me any more.
I think that you have to send all what you have about to JL and that be he if still can repair it,
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Dear @groovey : The Empire is not a MM cartridge design but a MI and I made that same mistake in my review of the Empire 4000D3 that we can read in this link: Btw, Empire Scientific was not the builder of its cartridges but Nippon Azden that designed its own Azden great cartridge lines MI and LOMC cartridges.
Good to see you again in Agon:
Audiogon Discussion Forum
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Dear @groovey : Good that you still have that Empire cartridge that’s very good performer. I still own almost all Empire models but the EDR that I sold, the best of my Empire is the 4000 DIII that’s excellent. The flyer in the link is interesting on the 4000:
Empire 4000 Wide Response 4-Channel Cartridge Manual | Vinyl Engine
Btw, I like your 240Ti, in those times I was behind the top trapezoidal shape ones but I never had the kind of money to do it.
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@lewm : The 2500 was the top of the line and builded before the latest Astatic Series 100 where my MF200 belongs. Btw, the inductance in the 2500 is a little higher at 120mH against the 90 mH in the MF 200. The stylus in the 2500 was as in the MF100 line contact where in my 200 is Shibata shape.
Btw, normally when I send any of my vintage cartridges to a retipper I look that Joseph Long try to mantain the cartridge as near original and normally too I ask to change only the stylus and never the cantilever.
That 2500 I owned and is truly fine performer. Good luck with .
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Btw, Astatic/Glanz were made by Mitachi but are not exactly the same, for example the inductance in the Glanz is 10mH and in the Astatic 90mH.Mitachi does it under Astatic specs this Astatic was founded in1930.
Here my retipper source:
Cartridge_Retipping@outlook.com
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Dear @lewm : No, wenever used the MAT 02 even 20 years ago when we started with the Essential 3150 I not even knewnothing about the MAT 02
Our white papers/targets was to design a fully discrete phonolinepreamp ( yes, I know that the MAT02 is a discrete design. ) where we choosed all the cative/passive parts and decided to use bipolars in the input gain with MC cartridges because goes a little better with bipolars than with FETs.
Obviously that it's way more easy to work with FET because bipolars must be in matched pairs what is not so easy to achieve it. Around 6 years latter came the 3160 model using bipolars too at the input gain but with different transistors.The MM stage were where weuse FETs because were more adequated for MM than for MC cartridges.
Transistorand FET devices improved over time and today we have better parts. Now, obviously that MC design works fine with FETs especially today but even that wefollow taking the time with bipolars and choosing the more neutral devices because even than in theory must be the sameour first hand experiencesis that there are minute differencesin between transistor and Fets.
First timeI been aware of the MAT02/03 was when Ibougth second hand myLevinson Reference 20.6 monobloks and we made it some mods and J.Curl used those MAT in that truly great amplifier design.
We, like to choose and listen to all the passive/active parts in the Essential 3180 design.
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Dear friends: Yesterday received a call from the gentleman that came at my place with his CH P1/X1 and ask me for the model of the Astatic cartridge he listened here and tell me that he really still impressed with its quality level through his CH and my phonolinepreamp unit.
Yes, it's something unexpected for a 200 vintage cartridge. I still own the Astatic MF 300 that I think is new because I don't remember been tested, I will do and we will see.
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Dear @lewm :Through my audio years I modfied the elctronics I owned but never touched any RIAA circuit mainly for what terry9 pointed out about in this thread.
Of course that all depends of the manufacturers quality designs and the owner targets.
First issue with the RIAA it's that is not linear but a developed curve whre any frequency change affects around two frequency octaves and this fact means that will introduce a coloration/distortion added that many times and depending of the quality system resolution we can or not aware of it.
It's not only about colorations but RIAA overall deviation.
In our designed units we can't even change a 0.022 uf and not only for all those but we were and are so demanding that going from measured 0.022uf to 0.023uf has a consequence, nothing comes by free depending on that design and your targets and we have to think that that cap is not only the cap but its very close relation ship wwith the other passive parts.
Well, that's me and nothing more than an opinion.
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@lewm : " I have used.01uF and .022uF values mostly, in an RIAA circuit, "
Was a RIAA circuit designed by you?. In a RIAA circuit using caps adding capacitance ( somewhere ) changes the RIAA deviation curve but if was you who designed it then you made a new calibration and if not that was a very bad " move " even if you like the result.
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Dear @lewm : We need in the RIAA passive trusty ( bullet proof.) parts and the air electric has several issues about and what you can get today are variable value caps not fixed ones. For me it's out of question in the 3180 but I had to learn about and I did it thank's to terry.
In the other side audiophiles are not mentally prepared for the almost absolute neutrality with Wima/Vishay/Kemet caps in the audio signal. Almost all audiophiles areaccustom to additional colors other than the natural MUSIC color in the LP reproduction.. Now, if they do not know thatsome of those caps are in the audio signal you can be sure that never will be aware of it and will like what they listened throughly.
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Dear @terry9 : Thank you. Unfortunatelly the fixed ones hasvery low pf capacitance and are NOS so we can't get it in future and along that in reality for different reasons needs a special circuit board to use it. It's not a true viable " excellent " option for a phonolinepreamp and non-imaginableforcrossover speakers.
In the other side I read somethings about that kind of capacitors:
" One disadvantage of using air as a dielectric in a capacitor is that it has a relatively low dielectric constant compared to other materials. This means that a larger distance between the plates is needed to achieve the same capacitance as a capacitor with a higher dielectric constant material. Additionally, air is not suitable for use in capacitors that require a high level of stability or precision."
that could means bigger dimensions that other caps.
" In summary, an air capacitor would not be a viable energy storage option because the flowing air would not retain a dielectric constant necessary for the capacitor to work properly. "
"
An air capac is a capacitor that uses air as a dielectric, and this capacitor can be designed in fixed or variable capacitance form. The fixed capacitance type is not often used because there are different types of fixed capacitors with much better characteristics than it, so the variable capacitance form is more frequently used due to its simple construction.
Air capacitors are usually made of two sets of semicircular metal plates, which are separated by an air dielectric material. Of these metal plates, one set is permanent and the other is attached to a shaft that allows the operator to rotate the assembly to change the capacitance when needed. When the overlap between the two metal plates is large, the capacitance is higher. Thus, the highest capacitance condition is reached when the overlap between the two sets of metal plates is maximum, while the lowest capacitance condition is reached once there is no overlap. For better capacitance control, finer adjustment, and higher accuracy, a reduction gear mechanism is used.
In addition, the capacitance value of air capacitors is very small, ranging from 100pF-1nF, while the operating voltage range is from 10 to 1000V. The breakdown voltage of the dielectric is small, so the electrical breakdown inside the capacitor can change, resulting in poor operation of the air capacitor. "
So, for me at the endyour adviselooks as useless in practic audio way.
Btw, the self by-passing Multicaps means higher developed inductance that's not good and maybe from therecomes its kind of coloration that's away from the neutral Wima/Vishay or Kemet ones. Only my opinion through first hand experiences.
Thank's again, I learned.
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@lewm : Do you tested Wima as coupling caps? and if yes: which model?
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Dear @terry9 : Please: can you share with me the link of your air dielectric source and models? here:
rauliruegas@hotmail.com
Appreciated, thank's in advance,
R.
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