@petzzz Congratulations, the TAD Micro Evo One's are a great sounding speaker. I would have gone for those as well over the SF G Traditions.
Like you correctly remembered, the SF G Traditions really are not competitive with the GH's. Unfortunately, I think SF, like almost all other speaker manufacturer's, had to look at their bottom line, and as such, they decided that to make a speaker to equal the GH quality would have been cost prohibitive. So, the GM. GE and GT reflect this.
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@petzzz...Like everything in this hobby, don’t take "opinions" for granted on these forums, go and listen to the speakers that you have questions about for yourself, and come to your own conclusions @daveyf I did listen and played around with several options today for 5 hours in total at 3 dealers, all at tiny sized listening rooms which is the norm here in Hong Kong :). Try as I might, I cannot bring myself to go for the SF Guarneri Traditionalle even though it has the SF “tone”. Definitely different and lesser to the old Homage to my ears/memory, sigh... @exupgh12 Listened to the Magico S1 Mk2 and Mini Mk2 (Used) with different amps ranging from a Naim full suite, then Gryphon electronics as well as equipment from Pass Labs, Boulder and Goldmund... I must say the Magicos are impressive and to my ears, the Mini Mk2 still betters the S1 as a finer instrument... the details and presentation was calmer and more composed I finally tried and bought the TAD Micro Evolution One 80th anniversary which will be delivered to me in 2 days :)... the dealer paired it with Accuphase ($9k), Luxman class A ($7K), Vitus RI ($12.5K) Intergrates as well as McIntosh Tube pre/SS amp combo ($14K) showing me that the speaker don’t take too much watts to drive (in a smallish room) but certainly can appreciate good electronics. The ME1 changes its tone with every component change and thru the exercise, we can safely say that it’s totally neutral... I think its imaging is good enough that It feels real, was fast and dynamic in the presentation and tonally accurate that enables us to detect component or cable changes easily. Now... the only thing left is to convince my wife that it looks prettier than my Sonus Faber! |
If like me you like the sound of Magico than do yourself a favor, buy S1MK2 instead,
all oughta little pricier than your budget for mini, those are better speakers in any term. |
@ptrck887 I have no idea as to what ancillary gear you listened to the GH's with, BUT to say they are not 'highly resolving in any way' tells me that either a) you heard the GH's with a severe mismatch of the upstream gear, or b) you have never really heard the GH's!
Of all the folks who have heard my GH's, none have ever said they are anything but highly resolving, in fact one person mentioned they are like a lens on the upstream gear! Every tiny change I have done in my system has been easily heard and IME, these speakers are as resolving as anything out there, and a ton more than most...YMMV.
@petzzz...Like everything in this hobby, don't take "opinions" for granted on these forums, go and listen to the speakers that you have questions about for yourself, and come to your own conclusions.
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@ptrck887 Thanks for sharing your experience I can tell you both the Cremona Auditor M’s and the GE crave good clean power. I’m running McIntosh MC601 monoblocks and both of those models really opened up with that power. They are highly resolving but require attention to details to bring it out...neutral cabling plus I have all gear on 3" maple, Symposium Platforms and a combo of Stillpoints or Rollerblocks. My room is only 16 x 12 and have the GE’s paired with two REL G-2’s....
I noticed you mentioned the Auditors weren’t as resolving as you’d like, but having heard Franco’s original GH....as beautiful and full as they are they are not highly resolving in any way. You Cremona’s, while not as full and lush will be more highly resolving than the GH’s. Have fun and enjoy the search! I had the opportunity to listen to both the SF Guarneri Memento and Evolution models previously and although they were good speakers, the impression of the original Homage was still the deepest. Perhaps, during those auditions, I wasn’t at the “upgrading” frame of mind :). Both these models are much easier to come by and if I’m lucky, I might just find a pair at a used dealer for an audition. |
That's been my take-away impression of Magico speakers too (including the A3 I auditioned). They seek such an audiophile-approved sound of "control" and reduction of anything speakerly, that they end up sounding, to my ears, restrained to a fault. I hear all the details, but they don't reach out and grab me or groove.
@prof I understand Magico’s need for a good amp but if it breaks the bank (5K used budget for amp), I might just have to give it a skip. At this point, listening to the new Magico and comparing them to the mini 2 will give a good idea on the value. One thing that’s surely on the mini 2 side is wife appeal :) |
Many speak very highly of the Raidho 1.2 as well. I like the ribbon tweeter. Am not a Magico fan for the reasons mentioned. 1 + SF Extremas are a legendary speaker. And the three way with the back tweeter are excellent. I also love the SF look.
@mglik Locked into a TAD and Magico audition next week. Agree with the Extremas but they also need lots of power to shine. Between the SF, I would still go for the Guarneri Homage if it surfaceS :) |
MAGICO mini 2s are a classic as well as A3s.
@ebm Fully agree on the mini and will be auditioning the S1 MK2 and the dealer has the S3 next week |
I had the SF Cremona Auditor M's for several years and comparing to the original Auditors, far more detailed and very highly resolving. At $6K with stands, still a great "under the radar" performer IMO. I too had the upgrade bug 2 or 3 years ago, auditioned most of the speakers mentioned above and at the time had a good friend that happened to be a Magico dealer. I've been in metalworking my entire career and Magico was one of our customers here in Silicon Valley.....I REALLY wanted to like them and auditioned several times and could never warm up to them...just to strident and clinical for my tastes regardless what was driving them. I ended up with Guarneri Evolutions and they best in every way the Cremona Auditor M's as they should for nearly four times the cost. I can tell you both the Cremona Auditor M's and the GE crave good clean power. I'm running McIntosh MC601 monoblocks and both of those models really opened up with that power. They are highly resolving but require attention to details to bring it out...neutral cabling plus I have all gear on 3" maple, Symposium Platforms and a combo of Stillpoints or Rollerblocks. My room is only 16 x 12 and have the GE's paired with two REL G-2's....
I noticed you mentioned the Auditors weren't as resolving as you'd like, but having heard Franco's original GH....as beautiful and full as they are they are not highly resolving in any way. You Cremona's, while not as full and lush will be more highly resolving than the GH's. Have fun and enjoy the search! |
Hi - I have heard the Mini2 in a very good setup and almost bought them but didn’t pull the trigger. First I think they look superb, even though they’re fairly hefty and take as much space as a good size floorstander. The design and build quality are first rate.
Soundwise, they have real qualities notably refinement and purity, without being perhaps as ruthlessly revealing as the subsequent Q series (the Q1 can be extraordinary). However, to my ears, they sounded too controlled to let music really flow (a consistent magico issue IMO), and despite being driven by serious amplification, sounded almost underpowered. They sure didn’t rock or let them hair down at all. On classical chamber music they might be fantastic but my musical diet is richer than that. If you like the warmth of your SF, I’d say exercise caution and perhaps consider other brands than Magico. How about a used pair of SF Extrema...?!
@derekw14 Thanks for your response... agree about the warmth signature and will listen to the Magico with that in mind Your recommendtion is another hard to find legend that needs a lot of juice to shine :)。 I heard the Extrema sometime back and it is a great speaker that does not show up often |
However, to my ears, they sounded too controlled to let music really
flow (a consistent magico issue IMO), and despite being driven by
serious amplification, sounded almost underpowered. That's been my take-away impression of Magico speakers too (including the A3 I auditioned). They seek such an audiophile-approved sound of "control" and reduction of anything speakerly, that they end up sounding, to my ears, restrained to a fault. I hear all the details, but they don't reach out and grab me or groove. |
Many speak very highly of the Raidho 1.2 as well. I like the ribbon tweeter. Am not a Magico fan for the reasons mentioned. 1 + SF Extremas are a legendary speaker. And the three way with the back tweeter are excellent. I also love the SF look.
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MAGICO mini 2s are a classic as well as A3s. |
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Hi - I have heard the Mini2 in a very good setup and almost bought them but didn’t pull the trigger. First I think they look superb, even though they’re fairly hefty and take as much space as a good size floorstander. The design and build quality are first rate.
Soundwise, they have real qualities notably refinement and purity, without being perhaps as ruthlessly revealing as the subsequent Q series (the Q1 can be extraordinary). However, to my ears, they sounded too controlled to let music really flow (a consistent magico issue IMO), and despite being driven by serious amplification, sounded almost underpowered. They sure didn’t rock or let them hair down at all. On classical chamber music they might be fantastic but my musical diet is richer than that. If you like the warmth of your SF, I’d say exercise caution and perhaps consider other brands than Magico. How about a used pair of SF Extrema...?! |
@mglik
We don't have Fritz speakers here but we have TAD :) Have made an appointment for audition next week |
Petzzz,
I have never heard the Minis but only know them by reputation.
I have heard the Fritz Carrara BEs and know them to be extremely musical and relatively easy to drive. That latter point is quite critical.
Surely, to get the most out of Minis, you must match them with very high end amp and front end. When I heard the Fritz speakers it was with a modest system. I think that a speaker in the Mini price range which is one of the best is the TAD. I have only heard the large TADs but, from all the great press and user comments, those small monitors should be considered. |
Haven't heard them personally, but for a while there, many people that heard them said they were in the top 5 speakers in the world. A "magic" that catapulted them into the upper realm. Lots of speakers in that range, but I would lean to the Mini at around $10K. An outlier, but was interested to read about these recently too:
https://qln.se/prestige-one/
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The Minis are responsible for launching Magico. However understand that they are”minis”. But their multi layered ply enclosures are unique to this day-even among other Magicos.
@mglik That’s why its so interesting to me. However as some pointed out, it is still be good but might have other options for the money :) Guess there’s no short cuts but to go around auditioning some newer speaker designs before making the decision |
The Homages are still some of my fav of the Sonus Fabers.
@rixthetrick Somehow it has the longest impression on me as well |
The Homages are still some of my fav of the Sonus Fabers.
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The Minis are responsible for launching Magico. However understand that they are”minis”. But their multi layered ply enclosures are unique to this day-even among other Magicos. |
You might want to look into the new ProAc K1. Price is $10k with their dedicated stands @axeis1。Thanks, will do some research on the K1. I think there‘s an agent here |
@petzzz Unfortunately, the newer Guaneri versions don't perform like the original does. The new Guarneri Tradition is not, at least IMO, in the same league as the original. Franco hit one out of the park with the GH's and the newer versions are just not up to that level, IMHO
@daveyf I agree with you... I had auditioned both the memento and evolution versions and they both didnt leave the same deep impression as the original Homage... that‘s also the reason why I’m still with the Auditors :)。But I‘ve been waiting for too long...
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You might want to look into the new ProAc K1. Price is $10k with their dedicated stands
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@petzzz Unfortunately, the newer Guaneri versions don't perform like the original does. The new Guarneri Tradition is not, at least IMO, in the same league as the original. Franco hit one out of the park with the GH's and the newer versions are just not up to that level, IMHO.
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@twoleftears I will check if we have a Vimberg Amea dealer here... we have quite a selection but I don’t believe I heard of these speakers. Thanks for your suggestion anyway :)
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@verdantaudio. Thank you for your offer but I’m based in HK. Shipping will be prohibitive :) |
@daveyf The memories I have for the original GH is very good but its been a while since I last heard them. Indeed if a set comes up, I’ll jump at the opportunity, I do think I want to wait since the Mini has sparked my desire for a speaker change. I’m sure most of us know that feeling :)
I’m made an appointment to audition some TAD speakers next week (Micro evo 1) as well as the Magico (S1 Mk2) before dropping by to give the latest SF Guarneri a listen. |
@petzzz You mentioned your first choice would be the SF GH's. I would strongly suggest that you keep to that choice and wait for a pair to come available. While they are not common, IME they are going to be superior to what you are asking about...in all areas. |
As a point of comparison, you should try to audition the Vimberg Amea. |
Wilson Tune Tots - a $600 Scan-Speak kit, I don't think so...
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Lets bad rap MAGICO as it is one of the BEST.MAGICO A3s sold over 800 pairs because there so bad.HELLO!! |
Wilson Tune Tots will utterly destroy the Magic’s, as will Guarneri Traditions.
the Magicos I have heard are either disappointing or simply bad.
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A thought....for a little less money and more advanced tech, I produce a speaker that might be of interest to you. I use materials that are similar to what is used in the Magico M line (carbon fiber sandwich panels with a honeycomb core though mine is DuPont Nomex rather than aluminum). The reason I am more reasonably priced than Magico is that I am using pre-fabricated panels rather than spending the money for molds. The Verdant Blackthorn 1 is an interesting speaker. It is easy load with a min impedance of 7.3 ohms. You wouldn't need to change amps unless you wanted too and it delivers a BIG sound. Check out Andrew Quint's coverage of AXPONA 2010 speakers under $20K. It is $10K in Black. I can do a wood finish or a carbon fiber finish if you would like. If you don't like them, I will take them back within 30 days, no restocking fee. They take 20 hours or so to break in so you will know within a short period of time. In the article, they featured our launch prices and we have had to inch up as my manufacturing has gotten their arms around production. Paint was underestimated in terms of cost in my initial manufacturing. My coverage is about 3/4 of the way down.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/axpona-2019-andrew-quint-on-loudspeakers-under-20000/
The cabinet in the Magico Mini is a bit dated and I would bet the A1 is a better speaker today. |
My dad has a pair of these speakers and I love them. He has them driven with all Pass Labs gear. Very impressive and surprisingly good amount of bass for a monitor. That price is high those, 9-10k is more what I’d think they’d be @chief4425 Thanks and I will lookout for the Passlabs amp. I am slightly concerned on the Watts but I from what I read, Magico Mini used to be voiced with Passlab amps hence it can't be too bad. As you and @ebm ebm indicated, I will try to get the set down nearer to 10K... if not, it will be a tougher decision. Will also look at the TADs since there's lots of good things written and I've got a dealer nearby. |
I had the MAGICO MINI 2s for several years they sound wonderful.Your amp should be 200 ch for best sound.Your room will be perfect.You should get Stillpoint acoustic panel get 2 at the first reflection point in front of the speaker this is very important.These speakers will be wonderful for vocals and small jazz groups.You should pay less than 10k.Good luck.I still own MAGICO speakers.You should use copper speaker wire and interconnects. The TADs and Josephs are great as well.Good luck!! @ebm Thanks for your response. Happy to have confirmation on the room size as that was really a concern. Looks like I'll have to read up on Stillpoints as well as TADs as an alternative. For speaker and ICs, I am presently using Acrolinks 7N S8000 series, which is one below their top range Mexcel. Hopefully that would be good enough and I don't need to upgrade as they are costly |
@petzzz I'm puzzled by your statement about bass in your 12' x 18' room, and I don't think you necessarily have to rule out some bass depth in your speaker.
I had TAD CR-1's that performed very nicely in an 11.5' x 15' x 8' room, including with tight, fairly deep bass. To achieve this, I did have to employ a decent number of DIY rockwool insulation absorption panels to tame the room modes, but it worked rather well. It wasn't very expensive to make them, but it did require some creativity to mount them effectively in the room. Now that I have a room twice the size, my TAD's do breathe a bit easier with more depth and soundstage, but I would not characterize the bass as necessarily "better". (Still working on the acoustic panel tuning of the new room, though.)
All that said, I'd love to experience the Magico Mini II in my system, too... They seem to be a decidedly interesting speaker. @jbrrp1 Thanks for the pointers... I have not done any bass treatment to my room with my SF auditors as I don't seem to have issues but I'm a little cautious in taking on larger speakers because of bass. It's just a precaution but if I like the speakers enough, I'll have to learn more on bass control :) |
Here's an alternative. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649632169-for-sale-alta-audio-celesta-frm-2-speakers-as-new-in-original-boxes/ I don't know if you've even heard of the company, or unlikely as it is, had an audition of them, but my point is this. Just because (1) there's a used pair down the street available now, (2) they cost a boatload when new, (3) Magico has accrued a remarkable reputation, doesn't mean these are necessarily the right speakers for you. You really need to listen to a bunch of speakers within your price range. Almost certainly one or two will stand out. If you'd been hankering after the minis for years, and then these came along, that would be one thing, but from what you've said the situation is totally different.
@twoleftears Thanks and all good points :) Yes, I really should be looking at other speakers aside from the Magico Mini before deciding. The last thing I need is to make a decision based on desire/convenience and not be happy with it on the long run. |
My dad has a pair of these speakers and I love them. He has them driven with all Pass Labs gear. Very impressive and surprisingly good amount of bass for a monitor. That price is high those, 9-10k is more what I’d think they’d be |
I had the MAGICO MINI 2s for several years they sound wonderful.Your amp should be 200 ch for best sound.Your room will be perfect.You should get Stillpoint acoustic panel get 2 at the first reflection point in front of the speaker this is very important.These speakers will be wonderful for vocals and small jazz groups.You should pay less than 10k.Good luck.I still own MAGICO speakers.You should use copper speaker wire and interconnects. The TADs and Josephs are great as well.Good luck!! |
@petzzz I'm puzzled by your statement about bass in your 12' x 18' room, and I don't think you necessarily have to rule out some bass depth in your speaker.
I had TAD CR-1's that performed very nicely in an 11.5' x 15' x 8' room, including with tight, fairly deep bass. To achieve this, I did have to employ a decent number of DIY rockwool insulation absorption panels to tame the room modes, but it worked rather well. It wasn't very expensive to make them, but it did require some creativity to mount them effectively in the room. Now that I have a room twice the size, my TAD's do breathe a bit easier with more depth and soundstage, but I would not characterize the bass as necessarily "better". (Still working on the acoustic panel tuning of the new room, though.)
All that said, I'd love to experience the Magico Mini II in my system, too... They seem to be a decidedly interesting speaker.
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Here's an alternative. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649632169-for-sale-alta-audio-celesta-frm-2-speakers-as-new-in-original-boxes/ I don't know if you've even heard of the company, or unlikely as it is, had an audition of them, but my point is this. Just because (1) there's a used pair down the street available now, (2) they cost a boatload when new, (3) Magico has accrued a remarkable reputation, doesn't mean these are necessarily the right speakers for you. You really need to listen to a bunch of speakers within your price range. Almost certainly one or two will stand out. If you'd been hankering after the minis for years, and then these came along, that would be one thing, but from what you've said the situation is totally different. |
@mapman When I listened briefly to the Mini the other day, it was set up with Goldmund amplification plus an Esoteric K01X SACD. The setup sounded very clean and analytical that although is good, its not what I’m looking for...
My Accuphase has a right balance of details, smooth without being bright and slightly warm presentation which I like and am hoping that it would influence the Mini’s sonic signature. Also, I’m not sure its 180W can handle the Mini.
As you mentioned earlier, I dont think I will spend too much upstream but I’ll likely budget for another $4-5K for a used SS amp if I’m pursuing the mini.
Wondering if this switch right thing to do... especially in view of the cost
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What don't you like/feel is missing from your SF Cremona's? Remember that the grass is not always greener ... @roberjerman Thanks for your pointers. I own 2 pairs of LS3/5a from Harbeth(11ohms) & Rogers (15 ohms) and they take rotation with my 300B SET. Love my tube system and it has remain unchanged for more than 15 years :) But you’re right... the Magico it is a lot of money... however considering its price from what it was, this might be my chance to own one of the best and likely my last change since I wont be moving from my home. My SF Auditors lack the resolving ability that my other components can output hence the reason to switch. Having said that, I do love its warmer sonic signature and have been looking for the original Guarneri Homage as the first upgrade choice. Sadly, I’ve not encountered it for the past 2 years locally... I’m limited by my listening space hence only considering monitors. At 12x18 ft, bass in any floor standers will be problematic. |
Regarding Quads/Electrostats, those were a reference standard sound for me when putting my setup together.
I wanted that sound but with more dynamics to be able to feel the music as well as hear it.
The Magico’s when I heard them around the same time certainly fit the bill. Just as clean and detailed but with that touch of warmth and better macro-dynamics. |
When I heard the Mini 2’s off the VAC tube amp and DCS digital source (also pricey wiring throughout), the sound had a nice but subtle touch of warmth through the mid-range, not unlike good Sonus Fabers when I have heard them.
I use a modest Audio Research sp16 tube pre-amp in my system built around Class D Bel Canto ref1000m monoblocks and that also helps deliver just a subtle touch of similar warmth through the midrange though how much will vary still with speaker used.
Never sounds "tubey" though and neither did the VAC/Magico setup as I recall. Just clean and detailed with a very subtle touch of warmth perhaps in the midrange. |
@mapman Thanks for the response... that’s what I’m considering hence the potential switch in amplification and recommendations. I think my sources are up to the task since I’m not intending to push the mini to its limits. Actually, my room size doesn’t allow me for that :). So, it will be the mini and a new amp.
My other hesitation is the sound... I’m comfortable with the warmer presentation of the auditors and I think the Magico is entirely different...wondering how the mini 2 will influence the overall sonic signature of my system |
I’ve never heard a shootout between Magico and others like Sonus Faber, but, I suspect there are many less expensive options that would hold their own quite well (including Sonus Faber) and final decision comes down to largely personal preference.
Of course the sound is always key but there are other factors that go into buying decisions. If one covets Magico and is willing to pay more power to them. It is a very good statement-making but pricey product line.
Were it me, and I were looking at Magico Mini’s, I would probably go with Fritz speakers first in that those also offer top notch performance out of a smaller monitor package and are also easy for most any amp to drive and offer excellent value. Hard to find fault.
Joseph Audio is a bit pricier but also good competition I would say. Those were more neutral and less warm sounding in demos I have heard however.
Of course neither are Magico....
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For $6K you could get three pairs of Quad 57's and stack them! That setup would kill a single pair of Mini's! |
