@backdoor , It is, but I have no idea what you will accept as reasonable performance. You might be perfectly happy with a system I would deem sub par. But you have spent a lot of money already so my guess is it is important to you. If it is imaging you want the first thing you have to provide your system is a symmetrical environment. Stereo is all about symmetry. If one channel differs from the other in any way the image is chipped away at depending on the severity of the infractions and in the situation I see in your picture they are legion.
In a residential situation with the size rooms we normally have you want a flat front wall and two clean corners That extend for at least 6 feet in front of the speakers This should be on the short wall of the room. Both speakers see a corner and the listening position will be somewhere in the middle of the room away from the back wall. If you use the long wall the listening position will be up against the opposite long wall which will really create amplitude problems. With the type of speakers you have you will need sound absorption on the front wall, side walls and ceiling. The speakers need to see an exact mirror image environment. From there if you want SOTA performance it takes a little digital signal processing which scares the h-ll out of the analog crowd. Suites me. It keeps the price of digital processors down.
I only mean to help and do not want to see you wasting money chasing a faulty situation that might be able to improve a little but still will never approach the performance it should, the performance you expect.
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sudnh I gave your suggestion a try and I did get a bit better sounstaging. I have a few other things to try but it has become clear that room treatment is probably going to be the best thing I can do. Or find a whole new room as mijostyn suggested. Thank you.
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If the tarps help look into something durable and easily foldable like this.
I've been using tarps like these for years (mainly to cover windows during heat spells).
DeKay
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You will require perfect symmetry in your listening room. If that cannot be obtained, the first reflected surfaces will require insulation.
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You probably know this, since you referred to treatments, but the soundstage often depends on keeping out confusing reflections between speakers and ears. Your TV is reflecting and your couch is absorbing. If you can put a first reflection absorber on the right (facing the system) you might find an interesting change. Use the mirror test and find the first reflection point, and during listening, put a portable panel -- there. Hide it away when you're not listening. A reasonable WAF compromise. Enjoy!
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So you have your 2-channel music system and your HT system shoehorned into the same room?
As others will have observed, the speakers are too close together, the left speaker is too close to the sofa, and both speakers are too close to the wall behind them.
Your room seems to be pretty large; what's happening at the other end that is not shown in the pics?
A complete reorganization of components and furniture is the first step, even before you start experimenting with room treatments.
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I have had good luck with Synergistic products because I have actually used them, so about a week ago I bought a 5 pack of their HFT [high frequency transducers] but those little guys opened up the sound stage more than the wide sound stage I had before. for years I have been using their Basic Art System[ not the expensive one] one of the cups had fallen off the wall and I didn't realize it but I couldn't figure out why sound stage had collapsed and when I put the cup back up all was good again. In my 18x25ft. room the Basic ART [d/c] the only sound treatment I used, on my speaker site I see so many using all sorts of diffusers and traps,I tried a trap once and thought it sounded good but I decided to give the ART a try and got rid of the traps, huge improvement. I bought the HFT because on the front wall like so many others that I was throwing a heavy blanket over it which helped mostly with a depth and a few other things but it's a pain in the butt doing that every time, the HFT's apply to front wall opened up the stage even more and detail and dynamics are up too, no more blanket needed, not sure if removing the blanket or if it's the HFT's but the sound level is up from the normal level or the HFT's are creating a fuller sound stage but whatever I have to lower the volume a few notches,I have Magnepan 20.1's and the sound wave on the front wall is less so I might be hearing a more direct sound from my speakers. HFT'S are a money back guarantee and will cost a lot less then what I have seen people doing to their rooms.It's worth a try and if you don't like them send them back, if you get the results that I got you will be keep them. I have what they call level-one which treats the front wall only Level-two 5 more HFT's treat the sidewalls which I might be doing doing down the road.
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motorcy can you send me a link please. Thanks.
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Not that good with a PC but here is their site SYNERGISTICRESEARCH.COM, I have been getting Synergistic products from Highland Audio in CA. The more I listen with the HFT's the more impressed with them, also at Highland the reviews that they show are real, I have posted on reviews and the do show up. With these installed you are going to want to listen to everything that you have just listen to to have to hear the improvements.
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About the HFT's the store is called[ Highend-Electronics] they are located in the high desert in S. Ca.
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OP--i echo what others have said, particularly @designsfx and @mijostyn . While we can't see most of the side walls you said the speakers are on the long (22') wall instead of the short (17') wall where they should be. @designsfx asked about putting them on the TV wall but i would ask about the left wall where your big sofa is--what does that wall look like? Let me guess--there's a window in the middle of it? Not a worry, especially if there are symmetrical corners as @mijostyn said. So can you rotate the room 90 degrees counterclockwise? HT could go on wall where system is currently. Someone else mentioned that you have reflection off the TV from right speaker and absorption from sofa on left speaker--that will seriously compromise soundstage. Have you considered consolidating your HT and system to be together on the same wall? One set of speakers instead of two (extra speakers in the room also compromises acoustics). You have many issues, all with setup IMO, not your equipment. Get Jim Smith's book "Get Better Sound"--full of very useful information pertinent to your situation--it focuses almost completely on setup, including difficult rooms. Best of luck--you have a great system and your components don't need to be changed
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Wyoboy thanks for the suggestions. I am going through the process of figuring out what will work best if I continue using this room vs trying to find another place for the 2 channel stuff and just using this room for HT. I totally agree that my current situation is about as bad as it could be as many have let me know. Maybe eventually I can post pictures of a better configuration for the 2 channel listening environment. Thanks again.
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Open Baffle speakers for the win
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Tweak1 I have considered that. Like the Spatial Audios. Thanks for suggesting.
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@tweak1 , While dipoles do solve some room issues as dynamic speaker they cause more trouble than good. Dipoles need to be tall panels either planar magnetics or electrostatic. The point is that you need the speaker to radiate in the same pattern throughout the frequency range or you get into all sorts of amplitude variations with distance.
@backdoor , for dynamic loudspeakers worth the money I suggest Sonus Faber.
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Mijostyn thanks for heads up. Would those be better than my Legacy? Seems they would be more like the Legacy than different.
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@mijostyn
+1
I spent nearly forty years pursuing planar speakers. I loved the ethereal sound… but the power requirements and shortcomings in other aspects made me change directions. I listened to a lot of really amazing speakers, each with great characteristics… Wilson, Magico, B&W…. But Sonus Faber had an incredibly real organic sound to them.
I am now on my third pair of Sonus Faber… upgrading twice. I can’t even begin to explain you how happy I am with them. In particular, when paired with Audio Research equipment. The sound is so seductive, I could care less about more detail… although my system is incredibly detailed… it has such an emotional connection, it is hard to imagine a better system. Ever though I have heard systems of much greater cost, with greater imaging and slam.
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@backdoor , as everything Italian the Sonus Faber speakers are very stylish in a good way. The craftsmanship is meticulous. I have not seen a Legacy speaker up close so I really should not comment but I tend not to like air motion transformers.
In your situation, without a better room, it would not matter what speaker you are using. Even with 8 foot tall dipoles which are very directional you would still have problems. I just spent $3K removing a window from my listening room because it was f-ing things up and I use 8 foot tall dipoles.
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@mijostyn
Simply not true.
I have owned Accoustat 2+2s which are very tall,
Magnepan 3.4s ~ 6ft, which is not that much taller then most floorstanders
but have owned Emerald Physics 3.4s for several years now, which are only ~ 41" and are amazing
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OP...aren't you sorry you asked? LOL
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Secretguy It’s a roller coaster for sure. Haha. Bu also a lot of very thoughtful and useful information and I am grateful for all the feedback.
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@tweak1 , I think you need your hearing checked. I do not think Magenpan made a 3.4. I remember 3.6's and 3.7's but not 3.4's. Emerald Physics makes a 3.4. It looks one step better than a computer loudspeaker, a big computer loudspeaker. I cringe to think of a 15 inch midrange driver. Keep saving.
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@mijostyn
My maggies were 3.5Rs (not that that should matter to my point), and as for hearing/reading skills the EP 3.4s have 12" concentric drivers and more importantly, blew away the maggies
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@tweak1, I'm glad your happy with them.
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I use four Shakti Hallographs (two in the corners and two in the middle of the sidewalls-very critical). I also use 34 SR HFTs (5 levels plus 2 speakers). I don't know how much the side wall or ceiling ones affect the sound as I have ample side wall absorption paneling. The front center HFT X is the most critical for adjusting treble and openess. Next are the four sidewall HFT 2.0s to adjust the bass. After that, less effect. My speakers are not as open or focus the sound well without those Hallographs. My room sounds larger and better with the HFTs. I already have built in bass traps with a highly structured 16" thick walls and 4' X 1' 4 chamber activated carbon bass filters in the walls. Once set, forget.
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Fletcher Thanks for your thoughts. I have been thinking about going that route from a previous poster. The brand he was using is Synergistic Research. I do like the idea of not having to treat the entire room with large panels. Thanks again.
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