Looking for preamp which is good at BOTH single-ended AND balanced output

I have been using the VAC Renaissance 5 and it has excellent output to both single ended or balanced amps.  

An Aesthetix Calypso has both and would be in your price range used.

another vote for Aesthetix

you should check w manufacturers as to your biamp plans…

The Schiit Freya+ should be everything you need. If not, it will be quite close. $2000 left over to boot. 

I think the important thing is to buy the best possible preamp (with both)… the sound quality of the preamp is critical… in many ways the most important component in your system… the difference between the two in/outputs are likely to be small. Given your price restrictions, consider used. You could reach into the next echelon at the $5k level that way. Need to get a preamp which has a sound you really find appealing. For me that has always been Audio Research or Conrad Johnson. You will need to discover the brand that speaks to you. Listen to all you can.

Cannot satisfy your price point at full retail, but the Sugden LA-4 and the ATC preamps satisfy your needs as I understand them.  I own both of them and they are quite good and quite under the radar.

Used B and K pro 10 mc?
hteat preamp.
easy to recap.
great pre”

Try finding a used Graaf 13.5BII, you‘ll get both and be hard pressed finding a better preamp

Elac DDP-2

Steve Guttenberg recently reviewed a Backert preamp that looks interesting. 

https://youtu.be/lvMOm-le3Lg

even use both together for bi-amp setting.


Are you using an active line level crossover when biamping these two amps. The balanced connections will be louder because there is a 6db increase in gain.

I’ve got a BAT VK-3i and a VK-33, both of which have single and balanced outputs. They are terrific, high quality preamps and sound great. I think you should be fine with the VK-30SE or the VK-31SE. You really can’t go wrong with BAT gear.

The over-looked EAR-Yoshino 868L, designed and built by the recently-departed Tim de Paravicini, occasionally available used for around $3,000. The 868 sports two pair each of single-ended and balanced outputs on it’s rear---all independent of each other, the balanced outputs created via Paravicini’s legendary transformers. Each output is capable of driving a 200 ohm load, a brutal task required in pro recording studios, a field in which TdP did a fair amount of design work. Amplification is provided via a pair of 7DJ8 tubes.

EAR-Yoshino is distributed in the U.S.A. by the firm doing the same for two other superior UK companies: Townshend Audio (the unique Rock turntable---currently unavailable, the line of Seismic isolation products, a passive pre-amp, a super-tweeter, and interconnect and speaker cables), and Helius Designs (tonearms). Paravicini chose the Helius Omega tonearm to mate with his Master Disk Turntable.

ccheung
Looking for preamp which is good at BOTH single-ended AND balanced output

No voodoo here it all comes down to the design.

First one must ask the manufacturer, is their preamp circuit a "single ended design" with single ended rca output, but also with a "pseudo balanced circuit opamp" tacked on the single ended output to give the optional balanced/xlr??
If so in this case, the single ended rca output should sound better, over 1-3mt runs

If it’s a true balanced design all the way then the balanced should be quieter over very long (>5mts) interconnect runs, if 2mt or less the RCA should sound just as good.

Cheers George

RIP Tim P

This would be hard to find, but an SST Ambrosia is a world class Preamp with 2 single ended and 2 balanced..... You can get the first series for $3000, maybe less.  The series 2 is essentially the same preamp, but the moved a few circuits around to get rid of the fan.  You won't find a series 2 under $3000.  Do a search for the reviews, this is worth hunting down. Good Luck,  Tim

@ccheung  Just so you know, balanced and single-ended are incompatible. So there likely isn't a preamp good at both.

In single-ended circuits, the ground connection is part of the signal. In balanced circuits ground is ignored. The output of a balanced circuit **should** (if its supporting the balanced standard) not have any reference to ground; pin 2 is generated with respect to pin 3 and vice versa; neither signal is generated with respect to ground.

You can convert from one to the other using a line transformer. One of the benefits of balanced operation is no longer having to deal with interconnect cable artifact. You won't get that if the preamp does not support the balanced line standard.

My equipment is Audio Research. It supports both single ended and balanced. The designs are balance, ARC recommends using balanced. I have compared both… the difference is just plain minuscule. The differences between different component brands or models  far exceeds the difference between the outputs on the same ARC component.

My equipment is Audio Research. It supports both single ended and balanced. The designs are balance, ARC recommends using balanced.

Just for the record the ARC preamps do not support the balanced standard even though they are balanced.

@atmasphere ,

did you mean to really argue that balanced cables show no difference in sonic signature? That I believe would be a claim difficult to prove….

That I believe would be a claim difficult to prove….

@antigrunge2 
I did and actually its not. Most audiophiles have recordings, especially those made in the 1950s, that demonstrate that cables must not be as heavily colored as the high end cable industry likes to make them seem. Quite literally the balanced line standard is a technology that minimizes cable colorations, and that in turn is why you can run those cable for such long distances without a coloration, although the benefit is there even if the cable is only 6".


These recordings (RCA Living Stereo, Mercury Living Presence, EMI, Decca UK...) feature microphones placed quite a distance from the recorder, yet somehow (using long balanced line connections) the overall sound is clear and detailed- the better your system gets, the better these recordings sound.

+1 for the Aesthetix Calypso

Thank you for all your inputs.
I asked this question because I noticed some preamp produces better sound using either single ended or balanced, but not both. I am using Schiit Freya+ now. When I use Freya+ balanced connected to my SS balanced MC2 MC1250 amp. Its sound open and transparent, with wide sound stage. But when I connect the single-ended to tube amps. It sounds veiled and has very narrow sound stage.However, when I use the DIY grounded-grid preamp with tube amps. The transparent and wide sound stage comes back. I don't rule out the difference in sound quality is caused by preamp-amp mismatch.
That's why I initiated the topic, and looking for preamp with BOTH good outputs for comparison.

While no absolute guarantee, the higher the quality preamp the better both are likely to be and also the less the difference is likely to be.

Why not take a look at the Benchmark Media LA4?  It's Stereophile class A, offers both balanced and single ended inputs and outputs, and is below your top budget, selling for $2,600 new direct from Benchmark.  

Interesting. I will check it out.

If you don’t need an active pre-amp, the IcON 4pro does both single ended and balanced input/output and provides outstanding sound quality. 

http://hifiknights.com/reviews/preamplifiers/icon-4pro/

I can reccomend the BAT VK-30SE, I have one in my system now.  While you will probably get better results with balanced due to the topology itself it does quite well with unbalanced inputs and outputs

+1 for the Schiit Freya +. This is an amazing preamp that I have used in both balanced and SE. The reasonable price is the icing on the cake. I haven't even tried tube rolling yet - stock tubes are getting it done for me.