Looking for phono preamp advice in the $1000 - $1600 range
I am thinking of upgrading my current Vincent PHO-701 hybrid phono stage to something that doesn't cost an arm and a leg and still would make a meaningful improvement.
The chain I have now is Rega P8 with Hana SL LOMC cart, the Vincent phono stage, PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium (tube) preamp, McIntosh MC312 (solid state) power amp, and GoldenEar Triton One.R speakers.
My armchair research has identified e.g. the following phono stages in a reasonable $1000 - $1600 (depending on which and demo/used vs. new):
KTE LCR-1 MK5 / MK5S (hard to find)
MUSIC HALL Analogue A3 Vacuum Tube Phono Preamplifier
Sutherland Engineering Insight LPS
Sutherland TZ VIBE (with its intriguing transimpedance concept)
Project Phono Box RS2 MM/MC Phono
Hagerman Audio Labs Trumpet MC (many positive reviews, with comments that it would benefit from an updated external power supply which, if so, would add additional $$)
Any recommendations or insights into these, or others in my price range, given my surrounding equipment would be greatly appreciated!
I may be wrong, but I can’t believe the Project Phono Box would be an audible improvement over the Vincent, which I also own. I agree, it’s not amazing but it still beats out several internals I’ve tried over the years. Overall, I think you might need to bump the budget to get an “upgrade” as opposed to a lateral move. That said, I have a couple friends who swear by the Gold Note PH-10, if you want to kick in a few extra bucks.
I can also say, I currently use the Softone Model4 (http://softone.a.la9.jp/english/Model4/m4-1.htm) which I think is a steal for $650. Sounds a lot better than the Vincent. Single tube stage. Absolutely beautiful with the LOMC. Sometimes increased cost doesn’t equate to better performance.
$1500 + - was also my phono stage budget. I found a pre-owned Manley Chinook Upscale Audio Ed. for $1595. It was the best money I have spent on my analog set up. If you want solid state +1 on the Hegel V10. I went partners with a friend on one. We paid $1100 pre-owned. It’s a good, honest phono stage that punches above its weight.
Be careful on the trans impedance plan. I sold an Insight and replaced with a Little Loco. It was not an improvement with my VPI Shyla cart (AT Art 9). For TI to shine you need a very LO MC with very low output impedance…below 6 ohms. I’d highly recommend a Sutherland Insight (about $1400 new). I also went to a Manley Chinook and love it, but it was $2300 used. The deal above is the stuff of internet lore. Don’t expect to find one anywhere near that price.
Hello, I would stay away from the transimpedence. The sound is a little linear. Great for very low output carts. I like the Hegel V10 due to it having a linear power supply, having balanced outputs, and a good amount of gain. Used is well under your budget. But in the end the best that money can buy used. Especially the Herron.
I’ve owned a lot of phono preamps including the Sutherland TZ Vibe, Hegel V10, Ray Samuels Emmeline XR-2, Vincent PHO-8 and 701. I’m currently using a Modwright PH 9.0XT.
The Modwright PH 9.0XT is the best I’ve ever used and no plans to upgrade any further. It’s end game for me. It’s also much higher than your price range.
The Ray Samuels XR-2 was great and around $1,200.00. I still own it and it is the new 2023 model with upgraded Sparkos SS3601 Op Amps. It was my favorite out of all the preamps I’ve owned until the Modwright. It has a separate power supply and well built.
I’d be willing to sell the XR-2 if you’re interested. Send me a PM.
Check out the Darlington Labs MP8B. It will work with low output moving coils and has an upgraded power supply. I have the MP7 which sounds great with my moving magnet pickups. It seems to be customizable for any coil and setup you have. Of course you need good vision and some dexterity to adjust the dip switches
For me, vinyl sounds much more alive with tubes than it does with transistors. I would highly recommend looking at the Don Sachs phono preamp. Adding an internal SUT for your cart would push just over budget but worth saving the extra couple $ for. These do pop up on the used market a bit as well.
Now, if you happen to be handy with a soldering iron and want to build a simple kit, the same basic design is sold through Tubes4HiFi at a small price of $800 as a kit, or $1150 assembled. No premium parts yet like the Don Sachs, but a fantastic starting point. Also have cost effective SUT available to go with.
I went the kit route, went over the top on a lot of parts and full DIY chassis, and I think I’m still just around the $2k mark. I did document a few things with some final photos and impressions on Audiocircle. Lloyd’s build thread So yeah, you can have a very good affordable unit that plays right up there with a Manley or Modwright any day, and you could tune your build parts however you see fit.
Hope you find something fun that keeps your toes tapping.
I'm very happy with the Parasound JC3 Jr. Robust power supply, well shielded internals, balanced outs, highly adjustable. Dead quiet background, great sound quality and dynamics in my system.
Lloyd, been looking at the PH-16 kit, but waiting on figuring out what turntable I'm going to get. Already have a pair of the M-125 monoblocks I built and the SP-14 Preamp. Very happy now that I solved a ground loop issue. Been fun building my own equipment.
+1 for the Manley Chinook, which can be found within your budget if you're patient. I've recently acquired a used recent example, not an Upscale version, and it's fantastic--quiet as could be, a soundstage that's wide, deep, high and precise with realistic sized instruments and in-the-room images of voices. I'd driving it with a Grado Reference3 on a Well Tempered Classic, into a Mod Squad Line Drive, then MC60s and QUAD ESL63s.
+1 for the Manley Chinook, which can be found within your budget if you're patient. I've recently acquired a used recent example, not an Upscale version, and it's fantastic--quiet as could be, a soundstage that's wide, deep, high and precise with realistic sized instruments and in-the-room images of voices. I'd driving it with a Grado Reference3 on a Well Tempered Classic, into a Mod Squad Line Drive, then MC60s and QUAD ESL63s.
I also currently run a Modwright PH 9.0XT but prior to that I used an E.A.T E-Glo Petit that was terrific and usually available used for around $1k. I could have easily lived with the E-Glo but got a good deal on the Modwright, which is an end game product for me. It's definitely better, but not by as much as you'd think given the price difference.
Lot’s of great suggestions here, only chiming in as another GoldNote PH-10 owner. It does require the LPS to get the best out of it but it’s very good and I’ve spoken with several dealers/distributors other than the guy I bought of from who say it’s tough to beat unless you spend double the money.
I would also add I take advantage of its balanced output which I find is quieter and has cleaner, higher output which I don’t think you can leverage with your pre. Not that that should be a deal killer.
my system had one amp plugged into an outlet with the pre-amp and the other amp across the room into another outlet. The amp that was across the room was making the 60 Hz cycle sound, pretty loud at pauses between songs. I disconnected from the pre-amp and no buzz. switched channels...you know go through the gambit of isolating the source. The answer was that the power chord is grounded, three prong, so is the other amp and the pre-amp. I bought two converters that eliminate the ground - three prong to two prong and all the buzz went away. I left the pre-amp grounded. Apparently the grounding was traveling through the source cables back to the pre-amp and causing the cycling noise.
Hopefully this helps, but if not Tubes 4 Hifi - Roy Mottram roymottram@yahoo.com can help you nail it down. If it's an amp issue, Joe Servini (think that's his last name) k3tye@earthlink.net is awesome. Had to send my amps to him because I couldn't figure out why they were sounding so lean. Joe went through it and found that the factory coloring on the transformer wires were incorrect and didn't match the instructions from the kit. Amazing it didn't melt down. It's now up and running for a few years and sounds better and better as the caps smooth out. have about 500 hours on it and now issues at all.
good luck, I've heard stories about the ground loop being caused by a coffee maker plugged into a wall outlet in a different room.
I ended up buying the Simaudio Moon 310 LP with the 320S power supply.
To take full advantage of its balanced output I also upgraded my PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium to the PL EVO 400, as the Dialogue Premium only has single-ended inputs and output.
This is how you end up with domino effects, right… :-)
@sls883 Yes, still into bimmers. My first one was in 1995, a BMW M3 coupe, then followed by an M Roadster in 1998, then an M5 in 2000, then an M3 convertible with paddle shifters in 2003 (which we picked up at the Spartanburg factory with the Driver Experience), and currently a 328 cab with stick.
@bimmerloverYour power amp is balanced. Your existing line stage can't take advantage of everything the amp (or interconnect cables) have to offer as a result.
There are balanced tube preamps that also have a balanced phono section that can tick all the boxes.
@atmaspherethanks for your comments, but I have basically upgraded my system at least twice since that post... I ended up with the Simaudio MOON 310 LP phono stage with it’s matching 320 S linear power supply.
That connects, via balanced XLRs, to an Audio Research Reference 3 preamplifier, and onward to an ARC Reference 150 power amp. (I keep my Mac MC312 solid state power amp in my back pocket for when I want to change it up a bit (and generate less heat…).
I.e., everything is balanced from the phono stage and onward.
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