Bimby multibit is a great dac! While I prefer my analog setup, I really like the schiit!
Looking for my first DAC
I have mostly equipment from the eighties with the exception of an OPPO BDP-93. My Preamp is an ARC SP9-MKII and it's feeding some Acoustat model X's. I'm leaning toward a Schiit Bifrost Multibit Gen 5, with their 15 day trial period, so I can at listen to it and return if I don't like it. I have no way of listening to anything without a long drive and most probably a hotel stay, so I'm looking for your vast experience on the DAC's. Price range under $1000.
Thoughts??
JD
Thoughts??
JD
55 responses Add your response
@
bob7296 dont sell the 9038Pro DAC just change out the 8 "elna" 47uF lytics aound each OpAmp with film cap It's just MKS2B051001N00JSSD WIMA Film Capacitors US HTS:8532250070 ECCN:EAR99 COOE REPLACING the 8 47uFcaps and the 2 10uF exiting regulator. You will get it to sing. The reference designs used in the CHinese board is juat run of the mill ESS sample designs. |
I’ve been analog and tube all my life—currently Linn Sondek, with a Lyra Delos cartridge, with an Audible Illusions pre-amp and a Music Reference RM9–MK2. I’ve got a tube Jolida JD 100, which I purchased used about 10 years ago. Always found digital sound fatiguing and unmusical. Thought it’s time for a quality DAC, so I purchased a Mytek Liberty from Music Direct (60 day listening period)—and broke it in for the recommended 100 hours. Also using my iPad for streaming Qobuz and Tidal. I know it sounds heretical, but there was no question in my mind that the headphone jack from the iPad sounded way better than the lighting cable output into the Liberty. Richer, deeper, with more overtones (but also still digital). Comparisons with CD to DAC (connected through the Jolida’s coax cable) vs. CD directly into pre-amp were also startling. Only advantage I could see of the Liberty was its ability to make music less fatiguing—which is obviously an asset. But not worth the $1000. I returned the unit. Placed a Lyrita recording of an Arnold Bax Symphony from the 1960s on the turntable and wondered what I was missing about the digital revolution, since analog played with my Harberth 30.1 speakers was like listening to music performed live. |
So does anyone know anything about a Pro-Ject Pre Box DS2 Digital. I ended up with one and there seems to be very little on the web about it. The Pre Box S2 is everywhere, but not the DS2. It’s a few years older but has more inputs and outputs as well as Bluetooth. It costs $900 vs $399. Also are the AK 4490 d/a chips better or worse than the ESS Sabre 9038 chips. I know that I won’t be getting MQA decoding, but that’s not important for now. Thanks in advance. JD |
| Post removed |
All DACs under 4000$ sound simmilar to me. The one has better voices, the other better resolution, but they all lack the essential - emotions. So, take a mortage and buy some expensive tube DAC like EAR Yoshino or simmilar (european) stuff. You'll save your money actually by purchasing expensive gear. That's my humble opinion. Othervise, you'll start with one at 1000$ price tag, sell it for another and loose 500 bucks in transaction, then you'll replace the second one by third one etc. Your Acoustats need good tube dac. |
Hi whitestix, I have two problems with your idea. The first is that I have the 93 and not the 103. With its age I don’t want to put all my eggs in one basket. The second is if I do the update, I’m stuck with it whether I like it or not. Whereas if I don’t like the Pro-Ject, I can return it to Crutchfield and try something else. Oh and I have another spinner to play with. It’s a old Sony I’ve used for years. Thanks for your ideas and I will checkout Stevedaves.com. JD |
The Schiit Gungnir is a good value, but possible a better route would be to have the Oppo upgraded. StereoDave upgraded my Oppo 103 and the SQ improvement was astonishing for $375. That is the route I would suggest if you other have no need for a DAC (eg, to stream from your computer.) http://www.stereodaves.com/modifications.php |
Hi 213runnin,you are right that I don’t want to go over $1000. For my first DAC, but there is a Gungnir Multibit on eBay for $900 that I have an eye on, but are you saying it’s... Curious Jim, I’m saying the detail retrieval of this he Gungnir is excellent and better than the Bimby. But to get the whole benefit of it the rest of your system needs to be better than entry level. I’m not familiar with the gear you listed. |
@curiousjim, If all you require is a starter DAC with small buy in, you might want to check out the Burosn Audio Swing:https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/burson2/ I haven't heard it for myself, but the reviewers conclusion was that with some additional peripheral gear, it would still come in under $1000 and competed fairly with his $5000 Aurender A10. All the best, Nonoise |
The ifi micro BL should be in that price range. I haven't tried it but ifi products are usually liked by people who try them. I have the nano and think that sounds good for its price. https://ifi-audio.com/products/micro-idsd-bl/ Chord Mojo is also often mentioned. |
The Gungnir is well over the OP's stated budget. The thing with Schiit is, marketing, advertising and customer service all cost serious money that then HAS TO be added to the cost of each unit they sell. They can charge much less than competitors because of this. Although being that they are made in the US, costs of production would be more expensive than China. As an aside, China has now stopped all canola shipments from Canada(my country) because their main cell phone manufacturer CEO was arrested in Canada and is being held for the USA for breaking laws WRT business with Iran. China has started leaning on smaller countries like Australia, Canada, etc, and of course the US. I'm starting to rethink buying China made goods when I can. Everyone has to make their own choice on this. Anyway, I've owned the Modi, Bifrost and now Gungnir, all in the multibit design. They are excellent dacs at their price points. I would suggest that the Gungnir's detail retrieval may be glossed over by inferior budget gear that can't reproduce it. I had the Bifrost for about 2 years, and I could have stayed there, but upgraded the preamp and speakers and thought I'd try it out. The multibits do need to stay on for best performance. |
So I called Shiit. The answering system says say your name and they would connect you to the proper place. Scratching my head I said Jim and the went it a multi level answering service that led me to email address after email address. Never did talk to a live person! So I left an email asking about purchasing the Bifrost Multibit or the Gungnir Multibit. That was Tuesday and I’m still waiting for a response! So his afternoon I called Crutchfield and after thirty seconds I was talking with someone. We talked about my needs and the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 and some other products. When all was said and done I bought the Pro-Ject. With 60 days to listen, I’ll have plenty of time to make up my mind. I really wanted to do an A/B with a Schiit product, but I guess it will have to wait until they answer my email. So far I am not impressed with their customer service. JD |
markcdaniel, sfar, big_greg, and all, So far my list is the Liberty, The Wyred4sound D2, The Bifrost and the Pro-ject Box DAC. I’m probably going to start with the Pro-ject Box became it comes from Crutchfield and has the 60 day trial and the Bifrost with its 15 day trial. That way I can A/B them. I have to find if any of the Liberty dealers will let me try one out. JD |
@curiousjim -- The Project-ject Pre Box DAC replaced a Simaudio 100D, which I'd always been happy with but, as happens often, I was curious about the latest changes in DAC technology. The improvement was substantial, better soundstage and a more 'articulate' sound while still sounding sweet. I was impressed with some of the little touches. As an example, the output level can be controlled from the front panel and the level for output to the integrated amp needs to be higher than the output to the Sennheiser headphones. Once you've set both levels on first use it remembers them, when you plug in the phones it automatically switches levels. But the thing that impressed most was the improvement in the sound. I like it much more than I expected to, which hasn't always been the case when I get new gear. I think it's the best bang for buck purchase I've made in 50 years of swapping gear. |
@soix The rumors are unfortunately still true. There customer support through the entire value chain from pre-sales to RMA is sorely lacking, I mean non-existent. I could never get an update on the shipping date for my Brooklyn despite numerous emails and voicemails. Then it just showed up one day. The product quality is good enough to dull the sharp irritation of the customer experience, but that may not be true for everyone. By contrast, the customer service at Schiit is outstanding with very personal attention and an open invitation to visit their facilities in CA. Makes the Bifrost extra delicious if you don’t need the bells and whistles the Brooklyn brings to the table. It is a tough choice, which is why I ended up with both of them😂 for Jitter, even though I have not noticed any jitter issues, I inserted a Schiit Wyrd between the Roon Nucleus and Brooklyn DAC+. For what it is worth, my stereo is on a dedicated circuit with separate ground with PS Audio Power Ports and PS Audio Noise Harvesters. Mark |
FWIW, I had Accoustat 2+2s with both interface As and OTlL amps. I now have a Oppo 105 that I use as a transport though it can function as a direct volume control/dac to amp. I upgraded the 105 with an aftermarket Linear Power supply.. still not satisfied with the sound, I bought Audio Alchemy Dac/Pre + outboard PS 5 power supply (outstanding) but both are for sale (see US AudioMart or Audio Asylum adv that would work great, as I changed to PS Audio Stellar dac/pre and M700 amps |
@markcdaniel - Yeah, given all the positive reviews on both it doesn’t surprise me that they sound pretty similar. Good point on the features though. Someone once posted here that Mytek’s customer responsiveness was a bit lacking, but that was a while back. Any experience with this? And any idea of their jitter-reduction capabilities? A lot of DACs, especially in this price range, don't seem to do a whole lot to correct for jitter and the OP's gonna have some. |
Soix, i have not compared the Liberty directly to the Bifrost, but I have compared the Brooklyn to the Bifrost. The Brooklyn is essentially the Liberty’s prosumer big brother. The major differences can be understood in this review of the Liberty- http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/mytek-liberty-digital-to-analog-converter In my opinion, both DAC’s are phenomenal and have both been compared with DAC’s many times their price. I don’t find the SQ to be vastly different between the two. The major difference for me and the reason the Brooklyn takes front and center in my main system, is the plethora of connectivity options and features like HT passthrough and balanced outputs and balanced headphones with a nice OLED display and remote. The Bifrost is much more bare bones, but it does exactly what it promises, no more or less. The Bifrost is good enough to still have a home in my stack and if my Brooklyn kicked the bucket for some reason, I would not lose a lot of sleep over promoting the Bifrost back to front line duty. |
Lots of good info here. Just to revisit some of them, it would be helpful to know what aspects of sound reproduction are important to you and/or what things are you looking improve upon. I had an Oppo transport fail on me, so u know where I stand on upgrading the Oppo. Also, has anyone been able to compare the Liberty to the Bifrost? And, how are they at jitter reduction? The Oppo ain't a super transport in stock form, so if neither DAC has great jitter reduction I'd recommend including something like the Empirical Audio Offramp. Jitter can make digital sound so, well, digital. You can always add one later I suppose. Anyway, best of luck. |
Curiousjim, I use a Schiit Bifrost Multibit with one of my office systems. I have been very happy with it. It sounds great, especially for the price. If you are concerned about MQA, DSD or other formats of questionable value and low adoption, then this DAC is not for you. If you just want a really good sounding DAC for a reasonable price, you would be hard presssed to find better. If you happen to find yourself well funded, take a look at the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+. I use one in my main system. It runs about $2k. It slices, it dices, it chops and handles every format known to man. Assuming that is out of your range though, the Schiit Bifrost will give you years of service. |
| Post removed |
david_ten, I have read many of the forum posts but there are very few about "starter DAC's" In the past I have been able to listen to things and let my ears make the choice. Today, that's very hard to do. In the last year I have only been to one store where I listened to some VERY high end products. I drooled all over everthing! When the sales guy asked me if I wanted to listen to a $67.000 DAC, It was time for me to go and pick up my wife, so I sadly said no. Anyway, I like my system, but it's a be a bit flat. So I'm looking for something to brighten it up. Thank you. JD |
@curiousjim https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/smsl-su-8-version-2-balanced-dac.5433/pag... Follow steps for a discount on the RME, if that’s the DAC you want of course. |
JD, If you don't already have a feel for this, I encourage you to figure out what it is you want or expect from your system and where you may want to take it. Reading through the various DAC threads will be helpful. For example, [ONLY for example purposes, and because both are widely discussed on this forum] Border Patrol and Benchmark represent different 'sound' and 'presentations' and approaches. Once you have determined which camp(s) you may be interested in, recommendations will be more on the mark. |
Here is a PDF of the back of the OPPO BDP 93. It shows the inputs and the outputs I have. http://download.oppodigital.com/BDP93/BDP-93%20English%20Manual%20v2.21.pdf JD |
david_ten & sfar, I agree, the DAC in the 93, was never as good as the 95. I also agree that using the 93 as a spinner is best way to go. But I am no closer to knowing what to buy yet. The Bifrost is $599 new gets good reviews and I can plug it right into the 93 and out to the preamp. Any other suggestions would be great. Thanks. JD |
+1 for what @sfar posted. I'd use your 93 as a transport (for now) and go with an external / stand-alone DAC. The 93 was reviewed in early 2011, therefore, likely based on ~ 2010 DAC tech. As others have pointed out...there has been serious movement in DACs, since then. The 93 was also not to the level of the 95, except (approximately) for going digital out from it (again using it as a transport only). Your budget of 1K is healthy and there are great options new, and many more used (albeit slightly older) that will run circles around the 93's DAC performance. |
SMSL SU-8 Topping D50 RME ADI-2 DAC ($100 over, maybe find one used) JDS Labs EL DAC If you are willing to use the $90 Topping D10 as a USB to S/PDIF (Toslink and coax) convertor, then there are some other options you can consider, such as the ~$400 March Audio DAC1. |
I agree you could mod the OPPO and that might serve you well for awhile but think there are some good reasons for a separate DAC. Transports in disc players fail, they always do eventually. My experience has been that as player models change so do the transports inside them and it's sometimes impossible to find a replacement for a model that's no longer current. Without a working transport the DAC inside may be useless, no matter how good it is. And my experience is that most of the advancement in audio quality over the last few years has come from the improvement in DACs. You could reasonably argue that speakers and amps have improved, as well, but the degree of improvement in DACs seems to me to be greatest. I expect that will continue. And, an external DAC gives you more flexibility as new sources of music come along. |
