Looking for a preamp with XLR connections
Looking for a reference preamp with XLR inputs and outputs. Looking to spend less than 10k, no tubes. Any suggestion? Thought about the schitt Freya+, but audio science review just review it, and the measurements were aweful.
Thank you for your recommendations.
I had a Schitt Freya and I thought it was noisy in the sense of distortion. I have since moved on and up to Allnic. I started with the L-3000 then moved up to a L-7000 with constant impedance attenuator and recently sold that for a L-8000 and have no reason to want more. Allnic Pre-amps are uber quiet and often described as holographic. They have excellent low end resolution and presence. My L-8000 has gobs of timber and detail in the low end. I have 2 REL subs in my system. Their accuracy detail and speed lean much more towards SS than tube sound but they are so relaxed sounding. I think the best of both worlds. FWIW, check the input sensitivity of your amp before buying a pre. Make sure they are not both high gain. I had an issue with the Allnic and my Pass amps. I was able to use 2 sets of low gain output tubes to remedy this. |
I have 4 preamps a MicroZOTL MZ2, Cary SLP 98, Coincident Statement Line Stage Mk1, and a Supratek Sauvignon. The Latter 2 have XLR connections. If you've never heard of Supratek, you should look into them. The Coincident is very good but, uses the 101D tube which has more limited choices and can be expensive. The Supratek is based on the 6sn7 tube which has more choices. There is a Supratek thread on here called "Preamp Deal of the Century" with 78 pages. It is full of praise for the Australian Supratek models. My Supratek is broken (my fault) and is need of me getting off my ass and sent out for repair. I am currently using the Cary SLP-98 but if you could afford it, the Cary SLP-05 would be a "last preamp you'd ever need" purchase. Between the Coincident and Supratek; if you need tone and texture get the Supratek, if you're bag is transparency I'd find a used Coincident Statement. Both units have separate power supplies and are built like a tank. (M1 Abrams of course) |
The Benchmark LA4 is closest to a “straight wire with gain” that I’ve heard. No need to spend more if your goal is ultimate transparency and neutrality. I owned the Freya+ for a time. I tried rolling many NOS tubes in an attempt to hear what all the fuss was about, but alas, it always sounded best in passive mode. The Freya+ was quite transparent in passive form but the LA4 takes it to another level that I didn’t really think was possible. Remarkably, it doesn’t sound cold or clinical in the process.
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We've been doing balanced line preamps for home audio longer than anyone else. We did it because if you support the balanced line standard, you can get off of the interconnect cable game and not have to worry about their 'sound'. It didn't occur to us to not support the standard. But that has become very common in high end audio today; whether by choice or ignorance of the standard I can't tell. But if the preamp supports the standard you won't have to worry about interconnects. So when looking at a preamp, ask the manufacturer if the preamp supports AES48 which is the balanced standard. |
I think you should expand your choices by considering a tube preamp. Specifically, Atmasphere does fully balanced designs and that’s where I’d go first. Tubes in a preamp are very low maintenance. But, if you must do solid state I’d look at Ayre, or maybe Boulder. I’m not 100% sure either is fully balanced, but my guess is they are. Best of luck. |
Benchmark Media outstanding equipment balanced design thru out including the XLRs. You are correct in looking for A balanced design, it has many benefits. The comment that was made that balanced doesn’t matter at home Is false. It’s a quieter system period over and unbalanced system. His system just can’t resolve it. Tube sound is a preference not a performance spec. And a CTO to of a big company. |
While balanced and differential circuits are usually superior, it is not universally so. I’ve seen measurements of at least half a dozen products for which the single-ended connections resulted in the same or better performance than the balanced option. Case in point is the Cary SLP-05 preamp (which is fully differential even). What matters most is compatibility between the separate components in order to minimize ground loops. Well designed gear does not induce ground loops regardless of circuit and connection type. It also helps to avoid using “boutique” or audiophile brand cables, since many of them have completely ineffective shielding and poor quality terminations.
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To the OP, Be wary of what you read on the ASR forum. It’s quite apparent that many, if not most of them have little experience with high quality/audiophile-grade components. They like to hang their hat on SNR, THD and IMD specs because doing so enables them to be satisfied with cheap products. What’s even worse is that they’re not the least open-minded to the possibility that maybe researchers don’t yet fully understand how some measurement parameters I’ve owned a few of their measurement darlings. Some are good, some are great, and some are completely underwhelming. For example, the Benchmark AHB2. It’s a nice amp but I prefer the inferior measuring Parasound A21 and Pass XA25 amplifiers by a significant margin. OTOH, I have yet to hear a preamp I prefer to Benchmark’s LA4. The Topping D90 was a nice DAC but the higher noise and distortion Denafrips Ares II is better to my ears. At the end of the day, we should only care about which products bring us the greatest musical enjoyment. |
My original series Freya is VERY quiet (no discernible hum using NOS GE tubes, and trust me, I hate noisy gear) and Stereophile agreed with that assessment sticking it in its "Class A" recommendations. It tested fine in that review...To say otherwise is BLASPHEMY...it also sounds great with my adorable Pass XA-25 which is also a very quiet amp. A ridiculously affordable bargain for a superb little preamp...utterly recommended. |
A friend, whose ears I trust, auditioned the benchmark against multiple other preamplifiers and said that while it is quiet, it is flat and boring and without color. So be warned! I found that to be true with their amplifier as well, which I had in my system and compared to other amps, including Ayre V5xe and pass XA25. The good thing about benchmark is that you can audition it for 30 or 60 days, depending on where you purchase. If you get it, let us know what you think. |
@peter_s That is true and sometimes I like that boring base system and only want to hear the source material through that base. The following is the design goal of the Benchmark products. They say this explicit on their web site's APPLICATION NOTES section.
At the moment, my Benchmark LA4 preamp is connected to a warm KRELL Duo 175XD amp and a warmish Mustec 005 DAC. My AHB2 monos are connected to a warmish CODA 07x preamp and a warmish Musetec 005 DAC. Both systems are great to my ears. If I had a warm speaker, I would likely go with an all-Benchmark stack (including their DAC). Though, even the not so warm KEF LS50 speakers were very enjoyable on the all-Benchmark stack.
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@yyzsantabarbara For years I used the Benchmark DAC3/L DAC/preamp with a pair of KEF LS50's and compared a stereo AHB2 to the Ayre V5xe. I preferred the Ayre, I felt that I could see into the music better. The AHB2 was not inspiring to me in that setup or with a pair of Vivid V1.5's. On the Vivids, I much preferred the Pass XA25, as it provided more body to the midrange, which I found to be more flat and less engaging with the AHB2 (run in stereo). I've never heard the AHB2's as monoblocks, though I've read that it offers more headroom. That was my experience. I recently upgraded my DAC3 to a Weiss 501, and while it was definitely an improvement, I'm not sure it warranted 4x the price of the Benchmark. As I mentioned, my info about the Benchmark dedicated preamp is via a friend whose ears I trust - never heard it. |
Someone I know compared the Weiss 501 to the DAC3B and they preferred the Weiss also. I use the DAC3B with a tube headphone amp and it works better than my 'best' DAC with those tubes. So the DAC3B, while not my best overall DAC, works like a champ in 1 setup, and that is perfect.
The DAC3 HGC that I had for a while was rather frustrating for me when used as a preamp, especially at low volume. The Benchmark LA4 preamp is of a much high caliber when comparing the preamp functionality of the DAC3 lineup. The LA4 preamp should be used with a system that has a amp whose sonics that one loves. This statement regarding the LA4 is repeated by a few others on Audiogon.
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This is why I talk about the balanced standard. If the balanced standard is supported ground loops don't occur. This is because in a balanced connection, ground is ignored- its not part of the signal path as it is in a single-ended connection! Its merely there for shielding. When the balanced standard is ignored as we see in so many high end audio products, all bets are off. In a lot of balanced tube preamps in particular, the balanced output is simply two single-ended outputs (one out of phase with the other), each of which reference ground. That means that the ground isn't being ignored. When this happens all bets are off; such a preamp doesn't support AES48. |
@luxmancl38 +1 |
The Pre5 is a very nice preamp (I’ve owned it) but for $300 more the Benchmark LA4 is audibly higher in resolution, quieter, and lower in distortion. It also has an additional balanced input over the Pre5, is heavier, and feels much more substantial in use. The differences in sound are not massive but in A/B comparison they are detectable.
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Based on what I have owned and your stated requirements, and if your budget is truly in the $10k range, Pass is hard to beat. Now if you would consider tubes, which you should IMO, then its entirely a different story. The Freya is a great value. Sounds even better with upgraded tubes. I owned one for a while to see what all the chatter was about. It is by no means reference grade though, IMO. |
Based on what I have owned and your stated requirements, and if your budget is truly in the $10k range, Pass is hard to beat. Now if you would consider tubes, which you should IMO, then its entirely a different story. The Freya is a great value. Sounds even better with upgraded tubes. I owned one for a while to see what all the chatter was about. It is by no means reference grade though, IMO. |
