the op posted his request for advice 1.5 years ago - think he might have gotten what he needs by now... 🤣
Looking for a DAC under 2k
I'm using a Small Green Computer Optical Rendu to bring usb to a DAC.
Looking for a new DAC around 2k new or used.
Recently, I had a Border Patrol Se-i which sounded beautiful with a great soundstage and a relaxed sound. Unfortunately, dynamics and bass definition were weak.
Next up, I tried the ifi Pro iDSD. Detailed and clean, but lots and lots of settings to play with. Became noisy after a couple hours and eventually stopped putting out sound and went silent. Can't deal with that kind of poor quality, but really would have prefer a little warmer sound.
I borrowed my Chord Qutest from my headphone system. Very good with my tube headphone system, and not bad on the speaker system, but would like something a bit more analog sounding, like a Border Patrol with dynamic punch and clearly defined, not muddy bass.
TIA, for suggestions.
Looking for a new DAC around 2k new or used.
Recently, I had a Border Patrol Se-i which sounded beautiful with a great soundstage and a relaxed sound. Unfortunately, dynamics and bass definition were weak.
Next up, I tried the ifi Pro iDSD. Detailed and clean, but lots and lots of settings to play with. Became noisy after a couple hours and eventually stopped putting out sound and went silent. Can't deal with that kind of poor quality, but really would have prefer a little warmer sound.
I borrowed my Chord Qutest from my headphone system. Very good with my tube headphone system, and not bad on the speaker system, but would like something a bit more analog sounding, like a Border Patrol with dynamic punch and clearly defined, not muddy bass.
TIA, for suggestions.
69 responses Add your response
Another vote for the RME ADI-2. It has a multitude of functions and adjustments so you can get any lively sound you want, store it in memory and use it and others as you wish. There's more. DACs have a main use but the RME can also be used as a preamp. Quite a match with my tube monoblocks; no preamp needed and absolutely superb performance. Again, there's more. The RME engineers at RME provide free upgrades via their software, adding and improving features which further makes it an insane value. How one calculates all of this, I can't say because individuals have their choices to weigh. Last, I'll note, the differences in excellent DACs are nowhere near that of an amplifier IMHO. Industry people say this but it's often overlooked. A car will get you to a destination, but not all cars leave it there which perfectly symbolizes the value in the RME ADI-2. Others like ladder DACs like the Pontus. With that you don't get the RME variability; it's plug and play, thee end. Suggest a tryout and comparison so you understand in your own system. Used RME ADI-2 DACs back to the AKM 4490 chip are just as superb. Happy hunting.
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I recently got to an Ares II to see what all fuss is about with R2R. I own the Qutest and one significant area that Ares wins hands down as it's more continuous sounding like analog. Qutest is great digital. See the difference. Now I'm looking into Holo May or Aqua La Scala or even maybe Pontus II without breaking the bank!😃 BTW I haven't heard the older all in one chips like the TA1541 chip but I guess less resolution than descreet resistors but still can do the analog thing. |
@whipsaw You’re doubling down on a dubious stereotype, and I’m being charitable with my language.I was in China ten years ago inspecting a potential supplier's factory. Arc furnace process with an overhead crane - dirt floor, no safety gear - hard hats or eye protection, and the quality process was not documented. I realize electronics are not mutli thousand pound industrial products, but just be careful with what you are buying. |
Here is a good Chord Qutest review: https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2021/01/17/hifi-the-chord-mscaler-with-chord-qutest-dac-review-end-ga... |
cal3713 - I do understand the difference between bal and rca, was more thinking about the implementation. Even though I have balanced equipment, I am leaning to the camp that balanced is overkill in home Hi-Fi and that the money would be better spent in better parts or single ended development, also for balanced to make any sense, one has to use it all trough the chain! Off course if the buying budget is is of no concern, then please buy balanced 😜 I find this interesting. http://www.pureaudio.co.nz/?page_id=270 |
@gryphongryph Always, I suspect. There are a few things to consider in the balanced vs. single ended (RCA) world. You really need to know if the equipment internally balanced by design. If so, then you’re getting reduced distortion because of the noise rejection properties of the design scheme. While this is great for getting rid of noise, it also throws away all even-order harmonics in the distortion profile, leaving only odds. If you read about 2nd harmonic distortion, you’ll see that it actually creates an impression of warmth, body, and 3-dimensionality... and is preferred by some -- but not all -- listeners. For fun, Nelson Pass has actually made a H2 generator that literally injects negative phase second harmonics into the signal path. Like I said, not all ears hear this the same way, though, so you may prefer 3rd order harmonics (or neither), in which case it makes sense to minimize distortion and go fully balanced throughout the system. So, if the equipment is fully balanced, then you’re throwing away the benefits by using the RCA outputs. If it’s single ended by design, then using the XLR outputs means that the signal is being pushed through a transformer or op-amp circuit to convert from single-ended to "balanced". In this case, you’re not getting any of the noise rejection benefits of the balanced circuitry. Instead, you’re getting whatever the sonic signature is of the added iron or circuitry. I’d say that’s an obvious compromise, but some people do like the sound of a high quality transformer, so perhaps you’ll find it a pleasant addition. |
The reviewer doing this review is one of my go to guys. The One to Beat: Gustard X26 PRO DAC Review (soundnews.net) I ended up getting this one yesterday ($1500) from SHENZENAUDIO. Got 30 days to return it or get rid of an existing DAC and keep the Gustard. |
Here is a very interesting review of Pegasus DAC with comparison to other DACs including Chord Qutest: https://headfonics.com/musician-audio-pegasus-r2r-dac-review/2/#:~:text=The%20R2R%20of%20the%20Pegas.... I think the other system components are very important for choosing DAC. The quality of transport or music server is very important. I use a tube SET 300B amplifier. So in my system Qutest newer sounds bright or "digital". |
The Ayre Codex is a worthy option. A Colorado based company that offers excellent support and service if needed. For under $2K it's a great DAC. https://www.ayre.com/products/digital/codex/ |
I stand corrected. Thanks learning is fun Difference between Discrete Circuits and Integrated Circuits. A discrete circuit is constructed of components which are manufactured separately. Later, these components are connected together by using conducted wires on a circuit board or a printed circuit board. According to the above definition a discrete chip can't exist. What do you call a chip made of of individual micro resistors? |
@jjss49 I have seen that video before and went with it anyways based on many positive experiences on head-fi.org. I have the Pegasus in my secondary bedroom setup now and couldn’t have asked for something more perfect at a steal of a price. This is literally the equivalent of a 10k+ DAC from a couple of names i won’t name yet (you know who!)...Dacs like these get designed/made in China, makes it to North American/European shores, gets a Western brand name and the price tag goes to 20k (2000% markup from a lazy no talent vulture). The audio "patriot" will choose to pay that lazy zero talent vulture a fine sum of 20k, i suppose. But, I guess i’m just not that patriotic!! |
Musician Pegasus R2R agree on pontus careful on the other one... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH0MY044X8Q&t=3s |
The TDA 1541 chip is rated one of the best sounding of the discreet R2R chipsThe TDA1541 is not discrete. This is the "Chip" TDA1541 (all microscopic resistors are inside it.) https://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/2649100-brand-new-philips-tda-1541-s1-crown-dac-chip.j... This is the "Discrete" R2R resistor Ladder, "no chip", the hundreds of those resistor (circled in red) are separate and discrete. https://ibb.co/72znmhd Cheers George |
for those that care and are interested in chi-fi dacs like topping singxer gustard etc etc, there is a us-based retail outfit called apos audio - they are in nor cal and they represent and sell a number of these well known chi-fi dac/electronics brands (but not denafrips) i am NOT recommending these dacs, in fact i bought a topping d90 mqa from apos and returned it after trial - it wasn’t for me but apos are responsive, stand up guys who take care of customers and live up to promises made on support and customer service for usa based buyers interested in their chi fi offerings |
I own the MHDT Orchid DAC. The TDA 1541 chip is rated one of the best sounding of the discreet R2R chips and the DAC can be purchased from a US distributer. I purchased mine online and from a review a spare tube was to be sent if purchased form the US distributer. I didn't get the spare tube when my order came so I contacted the US distributer and asked about it. Their response was that the promotion had ended BUT sent me a spare tube anyway I think it sounds fantastic but haven't been able to compare it to any other brands accept the ALLO Piano DAC with the reclocker. I like it much better than that DAC. After Covid I'm hoping the DIY club here n the Northwest will be able to facilitate a DAC OFF to actually compare to some of the other members DACs purchased and built. |
D100 is proly out there in the wild as well and is very similar I think, Same ESS Sabre implementation with digital volume control. https://www.avforums.com/reviews/mcintosh-d100-digital-preamp-review.590 |
Since Wadia has been shelved by the McIntosh Lab their 321 DAC can be had for a song and 3rd party support is available. https://www.audioexcellence.ca/blog/2018/4/4/wadia-di322-introduction321-specials |
BLACK ICE GLASS FX TUBE DAC DSD WI-FI https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/dac/black-ice-glass-fx-tube-dac-dsd-wi-fi-review/ Heck of a lot cheaper than 2k and one of the best bargains in a dac out there period. Black ice is the old Jolida. For a whole bunch less, the musical fidelity v90 dac @ $299... yup, I said it $299. I mention these two dacs for good reason, they are both excellent and prove you do not need to spend thousands on a dac to get great sound. I own both the v90 dac as well as the older Jolida glass fx tube dac. |
Here's my limited experience on US vs Chinese-made items that I've bought. First off, if you buy Chinese, buy through a distributor and not directly from a Chinese company, because if you have an issue it's going to be very difficult to bridge the language gap if you don't speak their language (SHENZHENAUDIO). In short, I've had good and bad experiences with both US and Chinese manufactured goods; the US products had hardware issues, the Chinese products involved miscommunication and minor defects. US issues: PS Audio, had 2 issues - 1,) the Mute function would not work, and 2.) when a headphone was plugged in it did not bypass the main output. For #1 they sent me another control IC that I installed, and #2, I had to send it back because the circuits that do the bypass were -- missing. Since these two things were under warranty they fixed them at NO charge to me, so that's important as to customer service. Also have a Power Plant which has had zero problems, except for that thing where they yanked the internet support that allowed you to monitor performance and change settings online. Just sent back a Schiit Audio Freya+ where the volume control motor stopped working after 10 months - had to pay shipping and insurance back to them for a fix. Chinese: Denafrips Ares II, bought through VINSHINE - no issues with DAC, no problems with communication BUT you cannot send it back to them if you decide you just don't like it. Bought a Topping D90 from SHENZENAUDIO with the graphics on the front printed upside down, offered me $20 credit to keep it. I did. Also bought a Topping A50 from them, they sent me a UK adaptor for the wall wart (I am in the US and they didn't give me a choice as to type when I ordered) and after a month of trying to get them to understand that I needed the US adaptor (with pictures of what I needed) and them sending me an IEC power cord (remember, wall wart) I gave up and bought a linear power supply. Never did get the right part, but they sent very nice and polite responses to my pleas for the right part while never actually fixing the issue, and always asking me to retract any negative feedback I might've put out about them. I will mention that I had no issues with the Topping equipment functioning as it should, so again, deal with a trusted distributor. |
traudio OPDon’t think you could go passed a discrete R2R from Denmark at Soekris Audio . http://www.soekris.dk/products.html US/Canada Distrubuter https://soekris.modhouseaudio.com/soekris-audiophile-line Cheers George |
@traudio I understand what you are saying, and didn't mean to imply that you were being a racist. I simply thought that what you suggested in your first couple of posts seemed over-the-top, and too sweeping. In many cases, all other things being roughly equal, I would likely purchase, say, a German manufactured product over a Chinese equivalent, and in a broad sense, it would arguably be the safer choice. But if a Chinese manufacturer has a proven track record, I would see no reason not to purchase its products. Funny thing is, in my case, that I almost invariably buy used audio components, and have been doing so since the 1980s. This Denafrips DAC is literally the first major component that I have bought new in ~30 years. Part of my willingness to buy from a small Chinese manufacturer was the obvious care with which its representative (the aforementioned Alvin Chee) communicates with customers (both current and prospective). He can be found on various forums answering questions and concerns about the products, and, in contrast to some others, makes virtually no effort to (directly) push for sales. He is also very good at communicating privately via email, and this is the type of support that bolsters my confidence when I am considering a purchase. I have no doubt that there are many good DACs from many companies to consider. Denefrips seems to offer a nice combination of quality and value, but I'm sure that there are American (or German, etc.) made DACs that are equally worthy of consideration. |
whipsaw, I’m just passing on my experiences, not stereotyping. I’m sure Denafrips is a fine product, especially if it’s a smaller company that’s not contracted to make products that aren’t their own. IOW it sounds like they have some skin in the game. The companies I deal with are basically contractors that make products for several companies within the same product area. Also, I like being able to either pick up the phone, get a response on their forum, or an e mail within a reasonable amount of time if I have a problem or question. |