Perhaps I’m missing something, here, but I don’t really see the point of debating whether a particular reviewer’s comments on a particular DAC are "accurate" or "reliable". In the end, what matters is how it sounds to you in your system in your room according to your tastes.
While it can be reassuring to read/watch a favorable review from a reviewer one likes, there is still no guarantee you will like it. In the end, there is only one way to find out.
BTW, LAIV is not the only company that offers trial/return policies on their DACS!
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I happen to really enjoy mine. Perhaps my ears are defective ;)
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Jay just made some comments on his YouTube channel in response to a question although not a full review. He says that the sound signature sits in between Denafrips (leaner and more detailed) and Holo Audio (warmer and less detailed) though he doesn’t think that the Harmony DAC competes with those companies’ flagships. He also added that the i2s on the Harmony is very good because it is configurable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc_v6xwLrnc
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I have the Harmony DAC and the PS Audio DirectStream DAC Mk.1.
I bought the DSD before the latest DSD Mk.2 came out. After reading reviews of both and also reviews of the DSD Mk.1 after it was modded compared to the newer Mk.2, I had Rick mod mine and added the LPS add on.
With all the discussions of how the Harmony compares to other DACs, a refurbished DSD Mk.1 can be purchased for around $2000 with 1 year warranty.
The Laiv Harmony is $2700 with a 3 year warranty.
The DSD is FPGA based and the Harmony is a R2R. Both are great sounding.
Going up in price, the T+A DAC200 ($7000) and the Mola Mola Tambaqui ($13000) are better sounding, more analytical, however some report they are not as natural sounding. Opinions are like rectums. Everyone has one.
The soundstage of the DSD is larger than the Harmony DAC.
I am keeping both, and I listen to both. They both sound natural.
My system:
Moon by Simaudio 700i integrated amp
Vandersteen Treo CT speakers
Custom built Roon Server
PS Audio AirLens streamer
PS Audio DirectStream DAC mk.1, modded, w/APS upgrades and LPS
Nordost power and interconnect cables
Fidelium speaker cables
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I’ve had my Harmony DAC for about 2 weeks and have about 300 hours on it. I also own a Pontus II 12TH-1 and borrowed a Cyan 2 from a friend to compare all 3 this weekend. I listened to all 3 in NOS mode. I spent hours listening to songs that I have heard many many times before. The Harmony DAC has the most natural sound of all 3. I listen to a lot of acoustic instruments and vocals. The instruments like the piano sounds better and closer to reality with the Harmony DAC. This is the biggest difference I could hear compared to the other 2. While I have great respect for Hans B and enjoy his videos, I disagree with his comments on the Harmony.
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Regarding Hans’ review... The only time my Harmony sounded remotely close is during testing when I plugged it into the high current outlets of my Furman IT-Reference 20i. Going back to the balanced outlets marked a huge improvement for me within my system (so much so I just ordered an Audioquest Niagara 7000). I’ve mentioned this previously, but my experience is the Harmony is extremely sensitive to system issues and will happily expose them, so my best guess is there’s something in Hans’ chain that needs tweaking.
There have been some reports on Head-Fi in regards to testing NOS/OS and the consensus is there’s some high frequency roll-off with NOS so the "sibilance" claims are very puzzling and I’d again point to one of the many upstream device Hans has piping music into the Harmony. Some users have reported excellent results with NOS and HQPlayer, which I’m tempted to try, but personally, Harmony in OS has been very impressive.
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@jackd Thanks for sharing your impressions.
I too am considering the LAiV Harmony, and the closest contenders in my mind are the Denafrips Pontus II 15th or Venus II 12th-1. I mention the Pontus 15th because this new version appears to use the same resistor ladder as the Venus, and the main difference between the two units seems to be the clock. Does anyone have any thoughts regarding how either one of these would compare to the Harmony? Only small minus on the Harmony is that it converts DSD to PCM vs the Denafrips units that handle DSD natively. But if the sound quality of the Harmony is significantly better than the Pontus or Venus, the DSD issue would be acceptable,
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Brightness and silibance have me scratching my head...Wondering if removing the "Bridge" between the boards cause some type of instability within the circuit?
Wig
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I respect Hans review, if thats what he heard in his system, so be it. I’d say his review is spot on however I still do not hear brightness in my system.
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Thanks @jackd. This is exactly the review I’ve been wanting to read.
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- I received my Harmony on July 22nd and it has been playing music continuously 24/7 since then and just crossed over 300 hours. I also own a May KTE, a Spring 3 KTE, an Aqua La Voce S3 and a modified Directstream DAC. It is being fed by an Auralic Aries G2.2 and a Jays Audio CDT3 Mk 3 via USB and I2s, It is the most musically satisfying of the four DACs. Will it have the best measurements maybe not but it is the most natural sounding of the bunch and that is what matters to me. In my new dedicated and purpose built audio room it is the one that will stay. I have heard no hint of sibilance with either streaming services, stored FLAC and DSD files or CD's from the Jays transport. So I honestly don't know what Hans was listening to or for and the tone of his usually boring review indicated that his review was based on other factors. As has been pointed out multiple times with Laiv's generous return policy just try it for yourself and don't rely on reviewers on either side.
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My experience with the Harmony DAC has been quite different from that described by Hans. I have well over 100 hours of real listening sessions logged in with this device, with a TEAC 701T transport sending redbook CD data to it via coax. I do not hear enhanced sibilance, brightness, or a mediocre midrange tone. The sound that I hear is very natural, clear, and fulsome. I cannot compare it to any of the Holo products that Hans mentions, but I can say that the Harmony puts out a more enjoyable sound than any of the other digital sources that I have had in my home system, including the Ayre CX7eMP, the Marantz SA11S3, and the RME ADI2.
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I currently have a Gustard R26 and i'm looking to upgrade to either the Laiv or a Denafrips Terminator Plus 12th Anniv.
Does anyone have any comparisons with the Laiv to R26 or Laiv to Terminator?
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Hans' not-so-much-hype comments was not isolated. Passion for Sound had some reservation too, but both of them mentioned the I2S connection renders the best sound quality. I personally will appreciate honest critiques rather than hype. Remember, the latter still complemented it by saying "sound quality scales from very, very good to outstanding depending on what you're feeding it with."
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That's the best thing with Laiv. If one is interested, try it for a few weeks and return it if you don't like. Let's see other brands offer 30 days return policies..
I see reviews but they are not the bible. I take a leap of faith and go with my gut. I am glad I did with Harmony DAC. It's slightly better than the Holo May I had before as mentioned in this thread before.
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While I’m sure Hans heard what he heard, I am always a bit skeptical when one reviewer says something that hasn’t been mentioned by other very reputable reviewers and suspect there’s a negative system interaction of some sort at play there. But, fortunately you can easily do a trial of the Harmony DAC and I certainly wouldn’t let one iffy review deter me from doing that if I was interested.
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I am perplexed by the brightness take. I'm not experiencing that, at all.
Lak, in the comments Hans said he burned it in for 168 hours before starting the review.
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@wengfai : What can you tell us or ready to share about the upcoming HP2A? and the accompanying LExt, like what is it? Estimated release date(s)? or ballpark prices for the two? Curious about the trinity (DAC, HP2A, LExt) set for a home office setup.
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Ignoring Hans’ feedback on this DAC would be a mistake. However, given LAiV has a solid return policy, it would be worth to try if this DAC is something that appeals to you.
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This certainly sounds like an interesting DAC!
Curious if anyone has compared the sound quality of spinning a cd via coax vs streaming?
I was originally contemplating purchasing a very high-end SACD/CD player but am concerned about the laser cd mechanism dying and not being able to replace it.
So now, I’m giving thought to buying this dac, running it off my trusty but old Rotel 955 AX multi bit cd player via coax output. This transport never skips and I’ve had it for decades.
I have to assume this new dac will run circles around the Rotel, but not sure if the Rotel as a transport will do any justice for the new dac?
My thought was I would run it this way while I save up for a high end streamer.
Any thoughts ????
Best wishes,
Don
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Everyone hears different and in their own setup/room
I don't find the Harmony to be bright at all and I'm about 2 months in.
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Obviously Hans Beekhuyzen spent a great deal of time putting together his review of the LAiV Harmony DAC. I'm very curious as to how many hours of use he put on the DAC prior to his critical listing.
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Hans proclaims that he does not like Spikes because they can damage your furniture. Really?, that is his Audiophile explanation as to why Spikes are bad?
He makes no mention as to how may hours are on the unit he tests. It's been extensively discussed here that hours matter on this unit.
The sound is on the "Bright-side"? Hmm, ok. I have read many, many reviews now both here and elsewhere, and nobody else has made that insinuation.
I appreciate him discussing the build of the unit but won't be relying heavily on his audio review. Yes I know, he did get me to "Click" on it.
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Hey friends,
Thanks for sharing the review on the Augiogon forum, one of our largest owners discussion groups beside Headfi / Facebook!
At LAiV, we respect opinions from all works of life, be it from the owners who enjoy the DAC immensely, or, from the customers who tried the DAC but find it doesn’t suit their taste and music genres they often listen to.
To us, it’s a good and respectable review. This reflects our beliefs and values as stated above, and also validates that LAiV solicited reviews thus far are genuine and honest.
While the review outcome of this particular one wasn’t favourably, we respect that wholeheartedly and appreciate different opinions. One man’s meat could be another man’s poison. That is what makes the music-first-audiophile hobby interesting and enjoyable at the same time.
We will reach out to Hans to learn more about it. We sincerely hope Hans welcomes our suggestions and willing to spend more time with the Harmony DAC. We certainly hope that the DAC will work in Hans’ system(s) after going through setup optimisation with the several components he has.
Until then, enjoy the music!
Sincerely,
Weng Fai, Hoh
LAiV Audio
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Or he just decided he would get more clicks by posting a different opinion.
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Hans’ review sounds more like the truth than the hype. He’s not shy about pointing out the DAC’s faults.
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Has anyone paired the LAiV with a DDC like the Denafrips Hermes and used the I2s connection? Do they pair up?
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I received my LAiV Harmony DAC a few day ago. At the present time I'm only using it along with my Pro-Ject Audio Systems CD Box RS2T (transport). In comparison the other DAC's I still currently use and have are the Yamamoto DA converter YDA-01 and the Harmonix Reimyo DAP-777 20bitK2 DAC. Directly out of the box the LAiV Harmony DAC sounds wonderful. I'm already hearing more micro details, better instrument separation, and more body and soul within the vocals.
Awesome, @lak!
I shared the feedback on the Audiogon forum with my team, and they are delighted. This is exactly what keeps us moving forward.
Enjoy the music with the LAiV Harmony DAC!
Many thanks.
Weng Fai, Hoh
Founder of LAiV Audio
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I received my LAiV Harmony DAC a few day ago. At the present time I'm only using it along with my Pro-Ject Audio Systems CD Box RS2T (transport). In comparison the other DAC's I still currently use and have are the Yamamoto DA converter YDA-01 and the Harmonix Reimyo DAP-777 20bitK2 DAC. Directly out of the box the LAiV Harmony DAC sounds wonderful. I'm already hearing more micro details, better instrument separation, and more body and soul within the vocals.
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Thank you @soix - yes, I did read his review, and was hoping to hear additional opinions from Audiogon members.
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@classic8 I believe Srajan used a Terminator 12th? in his 6 Moons review of the Harmony and preferred the latter, so I’d recommend reading that.
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Has anyone compared the Harmony to a Denafrips Venus II or Terminator Ii?
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sim_audio_nerd- Yes indeed I noticed it got better after 150 hours.
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@kclone did you find further break in after 100 hours..I am at 80 hours or so and wondering if it can get better after 150+ mark?
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@kclone. Great to hear and thanks for the update.
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I’m at about 220 hours. I love this DAC! The Klipsch Cornwall IVs that I am currently using expose everything bad upstream, so far it ’s all good coming out of the speakers. The Laiv is a SMOOTH operator. Very balanced, extended, detailed, and yet smooth. I do not experience any listening fatigue and I would definitely call it a tinnitus friendly component. I find I am able to turn it up a little and it doesn’t light up my tinnitus. I know many feel the speaker is the most important part of the system, and I’m not going to argue that. But man, do not underestimate how much the source can impact the enjoyment of the system.
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@sim_audio_nerd,
"...at par with the Holo May" Again, high praise! Awesome.
I too am intrigued by their plans for a Streamer as I just can't justify the cost of the current offerings that I am considering. Hopefully, LAIV will overachieve with their future products as well. Thanks for the update.
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Almost a week + 60 hours and counting..
Can safely say it’s at par with Holo May KTE and maybe a tad bit better..
I was worried I will miss my Holo May but I do not..
I am looking forward to their streamer and Class D monos coming out later this year..should be interesting...
:)
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@audiostick
No, the blinking CDs are all standard redbook. I have yet to identify a pattern in the incidence of the problem that might shed some light on its origin. But, I'm not grinding my teeth over it. As you point out, there are only a few of us who still spin CDs, which likely accounts for the absence of comments in numerous audio forums about the blinking display. I have a streaming set up (Bluesound Node 2i, Tidal subscription) which sounds really good through the Harmony. I use streaming to find music that I like well enough to buy as CD or LP. I suppose I am just stubbornly addicted to physical media.
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@smweber2
Are these HDCDs by chance? Just thinking out loud. Thanks for sharing this issue. Let us know if/when Weng replies with solution.
I realize that you and I are probably the last two people listening to CDs on earth, but this issue matters. I will probably give in and subscribe to Qobuz later this year, knowing that when I do so, my CD tower will become a monument. Oh well.
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Yes, the blinking occurs with both spinners. I have not noticed any differences in the problem between the two. The display will sometimes normalize if the track is changed with a command from the remote, and sometimes it doesn't. It can occur midway through the tracks on a CD, and from the first track on a couple of others. On CDs that produce blinking from the get go, the problem never responds to a track change or spontaneously resolves. I have not noticed any predictable location points for intermittent blinking.
I need to emphasize that the problem does not occur with the great majority of CDs that I have played.
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@smweber2,
Does the blinking occur when playing the same CD/ tracks on both disc spinners, or do different CDs blink randomly on each player? When intermittent, does the blinking reoccur at the same location on the track when replayed?
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I’ve been listening to the Harmony for several days now, and between burn-in and playback sessions, I probably have well over 100 hours on the DAC. I like it very much and have little to add to the positive accounts in this thread about the sonics, other than to add that it puts out the best digital sound that I have ever heard in my setup.
But, I have experienced an issue with the “Track Info” display when playing CDs. While playing some discs, the track information will blink continuously. On a few other discs, this problem is intermittent. This does not seem to be a source issue, as it occurs with both my TEAC transport and an old Yamaha CD player that I am using to burn in the DAC. The great majority of CDs that I have played so far do not produce the problem.
I wrote to Weng Fai Hoh about this, and he replied that Laiv is working on a solution, that the problem seems to be confined to coax input, and that the blinking display can occasionally be resolved by changing to another track.
The blinking display is not a deal killer for me, the sound is far too enjoyable, and I simply turn off the display with the remote when it occurs. I tried the track change hack, and it does work sometimes. I do have to say that it is mildly annoying, and I hope a firmware upgrade will resolve it.
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@ Kclone
Yes, Tchernov is a very good cable but too smooth in my opinion and can smooth over detail and spatial cues, especially if the device is already known to be rich and organic sounding.
Wig
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Mine has a little over 100 hours. For the past couple of weeks prior to receiving the Laiv, I was going direct from my streamer to the DAC on my McIntosh 8950 integrated amp. It sounded pretty darn good. Changing to the Laiv, it sounded kind of cold/clinical out of the box, soundstage height was low. I was not all that impressed. I let it play for a couple of days. The cold/clinical sound was gone but something sounded off still. I noticed that instruments you could normally hear really well in a recording, the ones more forward or dominate in the mix, I couldn’t hear them as well but stuff that would normally be buried in the mix was more prominent. In a way I liked it, but also it kind of bothered me at the same time. I thought maybe the weak link was the ICs, but I only had one set on hand (Delund) and I couldn’t swap anything. But I did have a different USB. I pulled the Teknorov (I think that is what it was called) and swamped in a Kimber USB. Much better. I still get the benefit of hearing the background stuff in the recordings the Laiv lets me hear, but also the primary instruments have their prominence and power back. Listening to the Replacements Tim album as I type this. Not a great recording, but very enjoyable nonetheless.
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