LAIV Harmony

I have one on order.  It is supposed to ship at the end of June.  Over on headfi, there is a thread with some owners, all positive impressions so far.  

I too have one on order.  My order confirmation on the Laiv webpage gives an expected  shipping date of late June for my order, but the current preorder page says that shipping is expected sometime in July.  We'll see - they already have my money.  A friend of mine bought one about six weeks ago and let me try it for an evening in my home system.  I was blown away; it totally trounced the RME ADI2 that I run off of a TEAC 701T CD transport. I did not try it out with my streaming setup. Not being an audio reviewer, I lack the flowery (BS) vocabulary to describe the performance of the Laiv Harmony DAC, other than to say it imparted a sense of "realism" that I never before experienced from my B&W 802 D3 speakers.  I really liked what I heard that night and went straight to the Laiv website and ordered one.  That was a month ago.   If I ever get one, I will post some further impressions.

@kclone Headfi eluded my Google search.  27 pages, yikes.  Lots of volume but not much content.  One interesting blurb though on comparison to Holo Spring 3.

@smweber2 Great you were able to demo a friends unit in your system.  Now you know what to expect.  Yes, appreciate your future impressions after first 100 hours.

Sounds like many are waiting on their units at this point.  I'm hoping that within the next month or so more feedback will be available.

audiostick, if you go to the last couple of pages on that thread, there is user impressions, not much before that.  

smweber2,  I ordered May 31st, confirmation said shipping at the end of June.  If they moved it to later date, I haven't been notified yet.  Anyway, description of your experience with it is very encouraging.  

I ordered mine May 3rd and got a notification it shipped today and should arrive on June 20th (direct from China) via FedEx.  I've been searching for non-professional reactions and comparisons all over and it looks like the YouTube reviews coincided with a soft product launch, with only a handful receiving units prior to the wider release that began shipping ~2 weeks ago.

Lots of hype, but the sober take from GoldenSound on that HeadFi thread sounds like it's a solid DAC for the money, but not on par with a Holo May or better.  Good to mention he's running his through HQPlayer and seems to prefer native NOS, which isn't what the Laiv was designed for.

I was actually considering cancelling and going with a used Holo May or stepping up to a MSB Discrete, but Weng has been very responsive and a pleasure to deal with.  It's also hard to ignore that there isn't a single negative comment from the handful of people that have gotten a chance to listen to one and the price is fantastic.

@kclone I wish I would have known that yesterday morning before reading the first 20 pages - aargh.

@pynkfloydd Thanks for the input.  I agree with you and am impressed by Laiv's professionalism. I wrote them on a Saturday night, and had a response the next morning. Impressive considering the experience I just had with a major U.S. audio manufacturer.  After receiving a second defective unit of the company's most expensive version of their most (famous and) expensive product, Technical Service quit communicating with me. I had to contact Sales for return authorization.  She asked me if I wanted my money back or if I wanted to try again.  I was and still am very disappointed with that whole experience.  I had planned that purchase for over a year.  That company not only lost my purchase, they lost me as a customer for life.

@audiostick  Obviously the Major US Audio Manufacturer is complacent and doesn’t really care about your business. Good riddance. Laiv is new and hungry for business so I say let them earn it, we’ll soon find out if this is a new Denafrips/Holo Audio/Eversolo type brand or just a hype train running out of control.

Hi, 

 I was called to an audio friends house about  two weeks ago to here this Harmony Dac . He had ordered it based on reviews he had read and had taken the time   ( about 100 hours ) to break it in before he had me over . I was interested because I had read most of the reviews also.

I was quite impressed with the Dac and enjoyed it's overall tone and sound .

I decided to order one because of the close communication Laiv has been giving out to my friend and customers in general . I have a PS Audio Directstream Jr  Dac and I am very happy with it . But after listening to the LAiV Dac , I felt it was worth an honest try , with the 30 day return and all . 

But---- suddenly my friends Dac froze up on him . He contacted LAiV and the responded very quickly . Apologized and sent him a new board with instructions and a video on how to install it .

I am awaiting his response now and he is supposed to bring it down to my house so we can here it in my system.

 I ordered my around 6-7 and was told I would be notified as soon as they can ship.

Probably in July . Communication  with them as been very good and they always respond to my emails,

@solarjam Interesting that they are sending him a new board with instructions as opposed to having him return under warranty.  Advantage of modular design.  I guess I am ok with that, and definitely ok with their prompt response.  Please keep us posted on your impressions of it in your system compared to your Directstream Jr.

Hi  audiostick I will post that info as soon as I can get it down here to listen to .

My friend lives about an hour away and he is a busy guy .So I have not heard anything yet from him. He did tell me  , initially , that LAiV said that because of the modular boards it should not be a hard thing to do . I guess they were thinking of a quicker repair time if he does it . I agree . If it is kind of easy I would rather handle it myself . They also sent him a shipping sticker so that he can get it back  to them and  they can check it out.

All though I may be disappointed if this kind of thing happened to me . I do think it is being handled in a proper way and I will also keep you all informed of the  ongoing  situation . as best I can .

One more thing --- I should have my Dac in a few weeks . I will try and post a comparison between it and the Directstream Jr.  ( if this thread is still active at the time )

So, I'm the guy with the broken Harmony DAC. The input board went bad. I contacted Laiv the next day, and 4 days later a new board arrived by FedEx from China. Installation was smooth except for a tricky ribbon cable that I had not ever seen a connector like that before. I hooked it up and it's working fine. I have only been able to test the coaxial so far, but I suspect the USB will be working fine as well. I really want to commend Laiv for acting so fast. If I had to ship the unit back to China to have it repaired it would have taken a lot longer (minimum 2 weeks).

@koestner Glad to hear if went smoothly and that Laiv seems to be doing a good job standing by their products.  Love to hear your thoughts once you have some hours on it. 

I have had mine for weeks now (edti, received and put into use on 5/14/24). On my system it competes with my older high end dacs (Theta Gen V; Lexicon, ES) and my newer ChiFi DAC (D90SE).

I really like it. Very quiet and sounds great. Have used in in NOS mode quite a bit and OS for a week or so. Whilst I seem to prefer NOS, in any setting it sounds great, noise is lower than the others and (i know subjective) it sounds more musical than the Topping.

I find myself listening to music longer without fatigue. Also at a higher SPL.

It is a good looking piece also and remote its superb.

I say, give it a try. I could have bought any and my budget for a new DAC was up to $15K. I decided to try the LAiV since I wanted to try a ladder type. No complaints from me. It has become the DAC on input #1 on my PreAmp!

Dear friends,

 

I am Weng Fai, founder of LAiV Audio based in Singapore. Thank you @audiostick  for creating this thread on one of the largest forums in the US!

 

We’ve got some great news about the LAiV Harmony DAC! Our team has been working hard to ensure everything is perfect, and we’re excited to share where we’re at.

 

Current Status:

• Production: The DAC(s) are currently in the final stages of production.
• Quality Assurance: Each unit is undergoing rigorous testing to ensure it delivers the superior sound quality and reliability you expect from LAiV.
• Estimated Shipping Date: We’re shipping out orders as we speak! Backorders are currently being fulfilled. If you’ve placed an order with us, you’ll be receiving your tracking information very soon!

We appreciate your patience and understanding. Trust us, the wait will be worth it—the LAiV Harmony DAC is going to take your audio experience to the next level.

 

Thanks for hanging in there with us!

 

Best regards,
Weng Fai
Founder, LAiV Audio

My biggest concern is the lack of a volume control.  What is the recommended way to remotely adjust the volume without altering the sound signature of the DAC?

Get a Benchmark preamp.

@koestner Thanks for sharing your success story.  A 4 day delivery on the replacement board is indeed impressive.  I agree, I would much rather perform the repair myself than wait months for the unit to be repaired and returned.

@ervikingo Appreciate your input as you have owned quite the array of DACs in the past.  The "non-fatigue" factor is why I'm leaning R2R as well.

Keep us posted on your impressions as you put hours on your DACs.  Thanks!

@wengfai Thank you for introducing yourself.  Congratulations on the start-up of your new company and the success of the Harmony.  We appreciate the status update.  I see you have other products in development.  I'm looking forward to the introduction of your Streamer next year as well.

My biggest concern is the lack of a volume control.  What is the recommended way to remotely adjust the volume without altering the sound signature of the DAC?

@danager This passive pre was designed with you in mind…

http://www.placetteaudio.com/remote_control.htm

Here’s one used…

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650056716-placette-audio-rvc/

Although I have tried my Directstream Dac directly to my amp (variable volume control ) . I must agree with Koestner . A great preamp is worth its weight in gold !!

Just my 2 cents worth .

hello @wengfai I really like my Harmony dac!

Waiting for news on your upcoming streamer.

@audiostick regarding fatigue, I never thought of it much but I would get tired of listening to music with my newer dac.  Don't know if its a known issue but with the LAiV I dont get fatigued; just run out of free hours to enjoy music.

Give it a shot, it is a very nice unit.  Even the packaging and presentation is superb.

I received my Laiv Harmony!

Very, very initial first impressions out of the box:

• Very rich, full, detailed and natural sound signature.  Compared to ESS DACs I've tried, the Laiv doesn't have any harshness on the high end (without dulling anything).
• USB connection from a PC registers in sound options at 32bit/384kHz on an AMD-based PC.  (Bit depth isn't documented anywhere.)  I believe this is the max possible on AMD's chipset.
• Vocals are more forward than other sources I've used.  My listening position is very close to my speakers and will take a bit of getting used to.
• I noticed a few audio dropouts with OS up to 768kHz after initial hookup.  Will keep an eye on it, but could be I need to clean out my old drivers or something to solve with a future firmware/driver update.  Played with some settings and haven't noticed it during the past few songs I played.

I don't have a ton of DAC experience, so please don't take my words as gospel, but I have nothing bad to say about the Harmony during first impressions.  My unboxing experience was excellent.  Everything was plug and play, but I had to install the drivers before Windows 11 recognized it.

@pynkfloydd Have you considered adding a dedicated streamer?  Running USB direct from a PC may be significantly limiting your streaming sound quality.  Just a thought FWIW.

@soix - ...definitely not for me and I don’t have any issues with sound quality. For reference, the Laiv is running into my MBL 6010D.

I’m running my system as a high-end desktop workstation and have a beQuiet Dark Power Pro 13 PSU in my system (certified 80 PLUS Titanium efficiency) and would be extremely skeptical of any sound improvement claims a streamer would make. I also prefer running software direct from my PC.

The only thing I’ve considered is HQPlayer for its upsampling ability, but would have went the Holo May route if I had. I also considered the MSB line for their USB converter running into fiber, but also skeptical I’d notice a significant improvement.

Guys, this is an excellent DAC, i have had many before and this dac but this is by far the best balanced for my system.  Great depth and soundstage, very holographic.  Everything is natural, and sounds real….hard to explain other than nothing is exaggerated. Voices have a great clarity and smooth naturalness. For me…. Its my end game dac

@solarjam  @koestner

Thanks.... but ah a $3000 dollar preamp to control the volume of a $2700 DAC seems like a misappropriation of resources to me.  I too am running my PSAudio Directstream directly into m y amp.  I've tried a SS preamp to increase the gain which made it louder but it pushed everything forward. My preamp does have  a passive mode but not a remote which makes it a no go for me.

It looks like quality passive preamps can be had new for as little as $850 to $1200 which means the Harmony is really a $3500 to $3900 DAC.  Still less than the a Sonnet Pasithea (and a whole lot easier to remember the name  Harmony) but now there are more power cords and interconnects to deal with.

I'm sorry I took this post off the track of comparing how it compared with other DACs but while the Harmony looks fantastic and has great reviews for me at least it has drawbacks.

Check out the Schiit SAGA+ remote preamp for only $399 new. It's way better than its price may suggest.

@danager  Understand that no volume control is a no-go for your current set-up, but for those of us with more "traditional" audio systems, adding volume control to a DAC adds cost and another potential failure point in the unit.

https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2700495 @danager I beg to differ. I run the benchmark LA4 preamp with the $1500 orchard audio starkrimsom monoblocks and love the combo. It drives my B&W 805 D3 speakers. The benchmark is a kickass preamp and won't hesitate putting it in the system to run this DAC. BTW I have an order placed for the Harmony and waiting for it to ship.

Just listened to the Harmony DAC and I’m really happy it’s very quiet and sounds surprisingly good. For now it’s replacing my $9k DAC. Amazing.

@donavabdear  If anyone’s audio setup can demonstrate the good and the bad of the Laiv Harmony, your’s certainly will.  What $9K DAC in your listening room is moving to the garage?

I moved out my PS Audio direct stream DAC MK 2 and for that matter I moved out all my BHK PS Audo equipment. I really just didn’t like the noise, the PS A BHK equipment sounded wonderful and extra tube like and buttery but it’s just noisy. The Harmony DAC is very quiet for me it’s a breath of fresh air even though the music is a bit more edgy, perhaps in a few days it will smooth out just a bit. Amazing how a 3k DAC can even compete with another DAC 3 times the price.

@smweber2 

Thanks for the kind words. I. moved out my PS Audio direct stream DAC MK 2 and for that matter I moved out all my BHK PS Audio equipment. I really just didn’t like the noise, the PS A BHK equipment sounded wonderful and extra tube like and buttery but it’s just noisy. The Harmony DAC is very quiet for me it’s a breath of fresh air even though the music is a bit more edgy, perhaps in a few days it will smooth out just a bit. Amazing how a 3k DAC can even compete with another DAC 3 times the price.

My now 4+ yo Audio Alchemy DDP-1 (DAC/Pre) + AA PS 5 optional outboard power supply upgrade still serves me well, allowing me to easily discern changes to my set up, as it has over the last few days after adding VeraFi Black Hole isolation devices. IMHO, I think they would get a lot more buyers if they incorporated a highly pe-amp in it

@tweak1 
I believe they have a preamp on the way. The design is compartmentalized better for internal RF interference like separates in one box. If their preamp is as good as the DAC this company could really be interesting, I could spend a lot less on components that are beyond the threshold of hearing and a lot more on speakers. We may be getting to the point like retna displays that have more resolution than your eye does for your ears.

 

One size does not fit all. My favorite component is my line stage. I greatly prefer a hot-rodded DAC that possibly sounds slightly superior along with not paying a premium for features I will not be utilizing. I very well could be in the minority with this perspective I realize.

I will be upgrading my DAC in the very near future and have narrowed it down to the Harmony and the T&A Dac 200. I wish T&A would offer a stripped-down version, and for the reasons listed I probably will purchase the Harmony.

  Best for all

      LP

My update ~2 days in... 

Had to make some adjustments, but it's sounding really good.  Easily the best value DAC for the money.

• How it sounds so far:  Best I can describe is that no particular frequency stands out for me, everything has an excellent balance to it.  It doesn't have the hard edges from the ESS DACs that give a bit more 'definition' to vocal placement for my MBLs, but it also makes it much easier to listen to.  Imaging extends well beyond the room and no particular complaints.  Undecided on NOS/OS and phase, but left it on OS and positive phase for now.
• Initial Issues: 
  • Forwardness - I've seemed to tame this with some tweaking or, perhaps, my ears have adjusted. 
  • Stuttering / Dropouts - Seems to have been caused by my router (Netgear RS700s) which is in its infancy and buggy.
  • Unresponsive Remote - Reinstalling the battery and flipping the triangle/square selector a few times seems to have resolved this.
• Will I keep it?  Yeah, I think so.  Barring any issues, it's a great all-around DAC for my needs.  Rocka is coming out with the new MKII version of their Wavedream Signature and I anticipate Holo and MSB will follow with updates so I'll keep an eye out and possibly consider/audition in the future, but the Laiv Harmony will hold me over for a while (and be great in my spare systems if/when I upgrade).

Here's a pic of the Harmony in its new home, but please excuse the cable mess:

 

@pynkfloydd 

I thought exactly the same thing having a little DAC around is a great utility I think I’ll eventually put it into my video editing system until I find my tube DAC.

I connected the Harmony DAC to ch 1 (I2S ) and my PSA MK 2 (AES) to to ch 2 on my Boulder preamp so I could go back and fourth instantly, there was less difference than I thought when evaluating the Harmony this way. I did like the slightly more analytical presentation of the Harmony better. 

I thought exactly the same thing having a little DAC around is a great utility I think I’ll eventually put it into my video editing system until I find my tube DAC.

I connected the Harmony DAC to ch 1 (I2S ) and my PSA MK 2 (AES) to to ch 2 on my Boulder preamp so I could go back and fourth instantly, there was less difference than I thought when evaluating the Harmony this way. I did like the slightly more analytical presentation of the Harmony better. 

@donavabdear - That's a great point!  It's something I wanted to hold off saying until I had more time with the Harmony, but the initial reviewers made it sound like it's a life-changing experience, which it is not.  I think the words 'inoffensive' and 'enjoyable' come to mind.

Sadly, my preamp only has 1 pair of balanced inputs, but doing an imperfect comparison led me to the same conclusion, which is that it's very, very, slightly different and does its job very well.  This also makes me wonder if spending any more on a DAC wouldn't better spent elsewhere.

Hi Guys ,

 Just got through listening to the Harmony Dac here at my house yesterday for about 2 and 1/2 hours . My friend brought it over so I could here it before mine came in about 2 weeks or so (I hope). 

 My gear - Pass Labs XA-25 amp , Pass labs XP-22 pre amp , Aurender N100 server , Reference 3-A Taksim speakers and I use a PS Audio Directstream Jr Dac.

 I am not an official reviewer . So I'll do my best .

The harmony Dac is a very smooth and even keeled type of Dac . Nothing really jumped out at me at first. That is a good thing .

Its soundstage is not as forward or up front as much as the PS Audio. It has a nice laid back type of sound . Not all may like that , but I do . Very good resolution . So is the PA Audio . Some have said they heard things with the Harmony Dac that they had never heard on there own Dac . But I did not experience that . Resolution was top notch on both Dacs . The PS Audio was a little bolder  and somewhat forward with its soundstage and resolution . But there was a smoothness , relaxing type of sound that really struck me with the Harmony Dac. I will be listening more when mine comes . But for now I am leaning toward the Harmony Dac . There's just something about its nature that I like .

Questions??

solarjam, thanks for your impressions.   As an audiophile with tinnitus, it is good to know the Laiv has a smooth and relaxing nature.