My best friend drives me crazy.Every time we get into a discussion about audio,he tells me how great klipsch speakers are.I think they are the worst speakers.What do you think!
Jimmy Hughes a well respected UK hi-fi reviewer music guru whom I have purchased some his equipment recommendations over the past many moons with no regrets gave the Heresy lll's a great review in 2010 and stated that he could live with a pair. No higher praise than that. http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/klipsch-heresy-iii-loudspeakers-hifi-plus-71/
@phusis ,
I would love to hear the Uccello, It looks lovely and I am sure it sounds wonderful. I hope Mr Mears comes to the RMAF this year with the Uccello or an equivalent, then again a trip to sunny Blighty could be on the cards for me soon, see the family, friends and have a decent Indian curry, and a trip to the seaside!! Thanks for your Info regarding ALK Engineering/ Volti Audio I might just look into both of them and research their offerings into making a good speaker excellent. Mr Klipsch only had to put on some music with massed violins with the violinists giving their bows some serious welly to see how constrained and downright unpleasant a sound that would be a pain on the shell likes and would even get pets running to exit the room. Its a flaw that can be overcome with simply (layman's terms) going large or larger. Of course my views are to my ears upon my own listening experience, and naturally I could very well be wrong. Then again Taters could be correct in that they are "the worst"..........
I've had similar experiences as @rx7onmymind, but with the Heresy III. I cannot say that I notice the cupped voice issue with many songs.
When paired with tubes, I haven't heard a better speaker for late night listening.
They do compete with many modern designs, because they have strengths that others lack. All speakers are a compromise in some form or another. Of the many pairs of $2k speakers I've auditioned, the Heresys are up there with the best. They do forfeit bass of the lowest octaves, but they're superior in a couple ways to the ubiquitous 3-way towers from brands like B&W, MA, Focal, and Paradigm.
I'd wager that many naysayers here have never heard any Heritage Klipsch models, or at least, haven't heard the newest gen.
No, I'm not just a Klipsch fanboy. I used to make the same negative assumptions about this brand, based on my experience with Klipsch RF towers.
From my own experience what the Klipschorn Loudspeaker needs is a bigger mid range cone and larger flare say a 3" cone?. That would alleviate the mid range shrill/harshness (for want of better words) and allow the mid octaves to sound unstrained and uncongested on certain types of music. The tweeter could be Improved upon also.
I’d say the midrange horn of the stock Klipschhorn is the bigger problem than the driver itself, but nevertheless I find your proposal makes sense. My own speakers are build or "modeled" around the Belle Klipsch by one Simon Mears in Brighton, UK; meaning the bass horn is largely similar although the mids and tweeter horn + drivers and crossovers are completely different. Moreover the build and parts quality is substantially better. The 2" exit B&C DCM50 midrange compression driver used here sports a 5" (presumably paper-based) composite diaphragm with a 2" voice coil, which in regards to midrange compression drivers is almost unheard of (actually this driver is more or less a modern, permanent magnet clone of the old late 20’s RCA MI-1428B field coil midrange compression driver); usually the largest diameter diaphragms used in mids comp. drivers today is 4." The tractrix midrange horn of the "Belle a la Mears" is build from CNC-machined stacked plywood, and together with the B&C midrange driver delivers a full-yet-precise, utterly unrestrained and uncongested sound with no harshness of any kind. Indeed I find it to be some of the absolute best midrange I’ve ever heard. Which brings me to:
... do I spend money and modify/Improve them or just leave them for what they are and enjoy them for what they do well?
My recommendation would be to try and have your cake and eat it too, and have the Klipschhorn midrange and tweeter units + horns and crossovers completetely modified from ALK Engineering or Volti Audio. It won’t be cheap, but you would attain a one-package solution with 105dB sensitivity, almost full-range, and stellar overall presentation (relatively affordable still) - quite rare these days.
I owned and modded a pair of Heresy's. It took a lot of doing to get them close to right. But played late at night, through tubes, at low volume and the sound was really engaging. And, although folks often discuss how loud they go with a few watts, I found them unbearable past 80 to 85 dbs.
From my own experience what the Klipschorn Loudspeaker needs is a bigger mid range cone and larger flare say a 3" cone?. That would alleviate the mid range shrill/harshness (for want of better words) and allow the mid octaves to sound unstrained and uncongested on certain types of music. The tweeter could be Improved upon also. On the plus side they a very a revealing Loudspeaker and can sound delightful on certain recordings. Massed choral works are a let down to my ears. The pluses outweigh the minuses for me in stock form. As I own two horn speakers that sound better than the stock Klipschorn, do I spend money and modify/Improve them or just leave them for what they are and enjoy them for what they do well?
Taters....I agree with you.Back in the day when there was less competition they could hold their own.Certainly not the case today,but I will buy their components at swap meets and such because there are still followers and it's an easy sell
Many, many good unbiased & more importantly experienced views posted. I own a pair of Klipsch Bell’s and do understand many who point to their "cupped voice" sound, or "beaming" highs. Their not imagining it. I’ve found much of that has to do with the music. Compressed music sounds like crap and I have on several occasions stopped a song, taken the tablet upstairs and listened to it on the Wharfedales Denton’s which are known to be rich, laid back and warm sounding speakers. Well, those songs turned the Denton’s in knife throwing franken speakers. What I’ve learned is the Klipsch will ruthlessly reveal the music especially if it’s compressed and most music is making it sound like the Chipmunks. I listen to mostly jazz with horns, piano, double bass, violins and vocals sound their best when kept at 60-75db. On more modern music with these boy bands that artificially trip their high vocals with a synthesizer it just kills the ears. Chipmunks. No guy voice should sound that high and shrill. Also a lot depends as has been stated the pairing of ss with them. Sony STR 7055 & 7045 excellent. Marantz 2500 fantastic. Bob Carver Sunfire theater grand and cinema grand pre is a very good pairing. Again if they are all kept at reasonable levels and the right music is chosen. For near field late night listening they excell like no other and play delicately soft with crystal clarity which is most of my listening sessions. As for the bass that’s a non issue for me. I have a 20’ x 15’ room with 30’ ceilings and open loft design. Throwing on some "house" music my kid’s like, one can literally feel the bass reverberate throughout the home. They’ll push close to 80-90db. Lol. Keep the music clean and you’ll have a wonderful experience with them. Listen to Hayley Westenra , Enya, Rebecca Pidgeon right now. All of the women's voices are RIGHT THERE, airy, high, like an angel. Amazing. Thanks for the read & have an awesome audio journey. Cheers.
I've got a set of Cornwall I's from 73 and a Marantz 2270 from 74 perfect set up. They blow my B&W'S out of the water because the Cornwalls have a 105% sensitivity
I've liked Klipsch stuff for years, although never personally owned anything from them…"Heresy" (spent a LOT of time listening to a friend's pair of those things) might be one of the best audio product names ever. I did have a set of Altec A7s for many years (pro sound needs) and there is just something about the "wooden" tone of big old school plywood speakers that is unique and appealing.
volsfan8464 posts0"Amazing
that you can't tell at all when there was a 4 year jump, then a 5 year
jump, suddenly you have gone from 2004 to 2016 and people are still
complementing speakers that were first made more than 60 years ago. "
Cut them all you want, but point to another speaker than has been continuously in production 1/3 that long."
Bose 901s. Introduced in 1968 - 48 years ago. Still in production.
Amazing that you can't tell at all when there was a 4 year jump, then a 5 year jump, suddenly you have gone from 2004 to 2016 and people are still complementing speakers that were first made more than 60 years ago.
Cut them all you want, but point to another speaker than has been continuously in production 1/3 that long.
Have any of you heard the Palladium series. Seems to be the best they have made since the Heritage and Forte / Chorus lines.
Nah, it’s the titanium ringing, my Klipsch speaker got the new silicon horn which does help a lot with the harshness compared to older Klipsch designs.
Compared to normal speakers the ringing is actually not that obvious. It’s only when compared to high end beryllium active speakers (and only on certain songs with the right high frequency materials) did I go, wow, never knew it ringed so much.
Klipsch makes great speakers. Very dynamic, very accurate, something that audiophile speaker lacks severely.
Never heard the original "heritage" series (K-horns, Belle, La Scala, etc.), but based on my own speakers which are build around the design principles at least of the Belle Klipsch (mids and tweeters horn, drivers + x-overs are completely different; bass horns are very slightly "tweaked," and close to the original), I certainly agree on the above - insofar also we're dealing in both cases with fully horn-loaded speakers as a design basis and point of reference. I'd say the sound of horn here is denser, more present (yet wholly relaxed), and of with a wonderful ability to effortlessly convey complex material.
They ring a lot compared to beryllium drivers though. Which is both a pro and con.
Klipsch speakers "ringing" I'd wager has more to do with the horn construction and materials used than that used for the diaphragms, though the overall potential of the sound here originated is of course also influenced by the compression drivers as a whole. The original Klipsch horns sport relatively thin-metalled walls, and I imagine they can ring like bells at certain frequencies. I remember though reading of Art Dudleys ventures into modifying a pair of Altec Valencia's he had purchased, where he found damping the mids horns on the backside to have its flipside, so to speak, and robbing the horns of some of their sonic virtues - so much indeed that he found the tweak initiative here to be less productive overall. Same, in a sense, would apply to the man who build my speakers, and how he finds particle board (MDF) to sound "dead," and instead uses a particular kind of plywood to accommodate his preference. Though not beryllium vs. titanium, if this comparison even applies, the inclination towards killing most of the reverberating nature in materials, sometimes to counterproductive effect, is still the prevailing one. That being said, the "ringing a lot" of horns, just going by the reading of it, doesn't appeal to me. Some of JBL's "über"-models, like the K2's, now seem to me slightly on the pale and lack-and-substance side of sonics after being used to listening to horns made of stacked plywood (and a different compression driver). The JBL's here may sound "livelier" (some would say "splashier") in a sense, but to my ears quickly turns into a character less natural and too much "in the way." Oh well, there's livelier, and then there's "livelier"..
Ringing adds a sparkling top, certain high frequency focused songs can sound quite good with that extra sparkle. Eg: ceui. If titanium driver is like champagne then
berylliumdriver is like wine.
My first real speaker was an older pair of Cornwalls. THey were matched with 2A3 Wright Sound amps and a Philips SACD1000 that only worked for two years. I enjoyed them for what they were and being on a tight budget they were a value. Klipsch horns that I have heard over many years all sound good, not great and have issues. Slightly honky, harsh, bright with lacking soundstage are what I have heard typically. I also know there are strong feelings both ways. Some in the hobby love to hate them and I don't think that is fair. A SET amp simple record player and Klipsch speakers can be had on a budget and be fun to listen to.
Horns provide a very forward, immediate sound, with lots of presence. Too much presence, having a severe "cupped-hands around a mouth"/"pinched nose" coloration that quickly becomes irksome. The worst speakers, by far, I've ever heard for vocals. The ones I've heard, anyway. But very dynamic, if that's your priority and you can live with the extreme level of coloration they possess. They do mimic the sound of the PA systems at rock concerts, which may be why rockers don't mind them. When I lived in my Band's house at the age of 21, our PA (Altec Voice Of The Theatre A-7's) did double duty as our stereo speakers.
Horn speakers (or horn hybrids, as they mostly are) span many varieties, and I don't find above descriptions to be a common denominator on their better implementations. With my own horn speakers (based on the Belle Klipsch) as a point of reference: rather than sounding forward per se I agree they provide presence, immediacy and dynamics in spades (undeniable qualities, to me), but it's worth noticing how their sound morphs depending on the recording; some, if not most of the more modern rock/pop recordings can sound flat, uninvolving and compressed (which they are), but put on (particularly older) jazz titles and classical music and the soundscape suddenly blooms into a vivid, colorful and very dynamic presentation. I've never heard the likes of violin, cello, piano, clarinet, saxophone etc. sound that authentic, full of life and presence. Dynamics, both micro and macro, isn't just a priority here; it's an outright necessity if one is to emulate the imprinting of live instrumental sound, as is truth of tone, sheer air displacement area, ease and overall coherency. Perhaps much of the controversy of horn speakers resides in their unsuccessful pairings, be that both with the associated equipment as with the music (i.e.: their recordings). Add to that the inertia of what audiophiles are used to hearing from mostly (smaller) direct radiating speakers, and horn equivalents can be found to sound "wrong" simply by virtue of having a different, more direct presentation.
Bob, the thing is the sound heard at most concerts is coming from a PA system, which is what Klipsch speakers sound like. Live acoustic music does NOT sound like that. If a listeners reference is the sound of a PA system, Klipsch should be fine.
Call them what you want most people when they listen to them have the WOW effect. They sound live. When you go to a real concert you don’t see a bunch of tiny speakers you see speakers with large drivers. If you want a live sound the Klipsch do much better than most.
Do you see people at a concerting saying "gee they sound different than my monitors at home" They don’t sound colored or harsh to me, but some peoples ears are more sensitive than others. There is not wrong or right to it but people saying things like colored and looking down on Klipsch because of this are not being realistic. And are over exaggerating things just a bit.
To me, all my monitor type speakers sound flat and one dimensional in comparison. Yes they might be more accurate on paper but they fail on the WOW department.
I am talking about the OLD Klipsch not the new stuff.
Horns provide a very forward, immediate sound, with lots of presence. Too much presence, having a severe "cupped-hands around a mouth"/"pinched nose" coloration that quickly becomes irksome. The worst speakers, by far, I've ever heard for vocals. The ones I've heard, anyway. But very dynamic, if that's your priority and you can live with the extreme level of coloration they possess. They do mimic the sound of the PA systems at rock concerts, which may be why rockers don't mind them. When I lived in my Band's house at the age of 21, our PA (Altec Voice Of The Theatre A-7's) did double duty as our stereo speakers.
I've had many types of monitors, tower speakers like Salk towers but none of them image like the old Klipsch. All the older Klipsch Speakers have that 3D sound stage to them. Close your eyes and you feel like you are there. My Kefs may be more accurate but they don't image the same. They don't have that WOW what kind of speakers are those effect.
Have a pair of KG4 and Chorus 1s. They image like crazy and more more air than the new speakers with the multi but tiny drivers.
I have heard the rumor from a very good source (former owner of the Stereo Shop in Boise ID, that said when he work at another shop they put in a set of K-horns properly (big room appropriate dimensions, placement, tube electronic etc) for a customer. Said it sounded great noteworthy even. But I sold them at a stereo store in the 70's and could stand them. harsh, bass-less, and rude; though never set up right in the store and no tube amps. A cowboy friend got the Belle's; horrible, but loud and no bass, he even got a nice Audionics amp and preamp but in a small house in a small room it was Gawd awefull! I got to never like horn period ---- UNTIL two events 1.) hearing a pair of TAD (Pioneer)Berrillium horn systems (looked like a "Voice of the Theatre" black box with horn on top) with BagEnds subs, Tube Tri-amped BAT electronic and it was pure stunning musical magic. Next (2.) was AvantGarte at the Stereophile show they were just too dam good, and too dam expensive for me but wow sweet smoothe, transparent and very good looking and they did take a city block of your living room So I am with you cheering for Klipsch give me the pom-pom's we need those Khorns et. al. to sound good! and also I and getting a pair of industrial La Scala's tomorrow for cheap, in hopes that the ol'e Scott Stereomaster that is in my garage, will be soon be revived and tweaked and then somebody will have huge room an I will have heard stereo nevanna or should it be K-vanna! but still to this day even thinking about hearing a pioneer receiver with K-horns hurts my ears!
I have the klipsch legend series in my home theater. The klf-20`s are difinately great speakers. They have amazing dynamics and are very clear sounding. The klf-c7 is definately a great center also.
The very first speakers I made an investment in were a pair of Heresys in 1977, which I still own. I dropped out of audio because my system was good enough. Then I got sucked back into it 3 years ago. I always dreamt of K-horns and La Scalas. I bought a pair of 1978 La Scalas last year after buying a polite system for the WAF with VSA VR2s 3 years ago. The first speakers I looked at were the newer Klipsch which are terrible all around. The kicker is that I still adored my horns as raucous as they were, because I like my music fairly loud. I even bought a vintage Mac to go with them. I was happy. My wife set me up with a listening room in the basement (nice). So yes I loved them. While I was auditioning speakers for the living room I ran across JM labs,but couldn't afford them. I eventually got a great deal on a pair of 937s and finally found the right amps for them. Now I hardly feel like listening to the Klipsch. They are simply too shrill and lack definition, air, tone and are boxy. Do I hate them no, they will always have some appeal after 25 years of listening to them, but I don't love them anymore.
I guess I fit into the love them category. I have a pair of Khorns, 3 KG5.5 and 2 RF3 as my home theater setup. I use the Khorns as my two channel speakers also for analog since I continue to play a lot of vinyl. I recently upgraded my analog by getting a HE table and Van Den Hul moving coil cartridge and my khorns really opened up. The clarity and sound stage was spectacular. I am debating going to a tube setup for the khorns. I have heard many say that tubes go well the the khorns. I have recently heard the new B&W 800 series speakers and was very impressed with clarity and sound stage. But since i already own the Khorns, I don't see spending that much for similar performance
I hate them too. I think the horn sounds nasally, and the bass boomy. You might as well buy a tube-driven guitar stack. I can see how some people like them for classic rock though. I don't want a speaker that adds to the sound, but rather is transparent.
I have to admit that a swell of admiration overcame me yesterday as we were auditioning a modded CD player, and my wife started talking about how much better the system might sound with NOS 2A3's.
Our 1977 La Scala's are the ONLY piece of our system that has not changed over the past year. I must have listened to thirty or more speakers during that period. Some might be more capable, but every one that I've heard masks something on the recording that the Klipsch simply let through. And I don't want the music to be massaged, made more palatable, or more pleasant. Paired with a SET amp, I just have yet to find a speaker with more immediacy to it. Still looking and listening...
I still have 2 pair of cornwalls, 1 pair of chorus I, and a pair of chorus II, I spent 6k on a new pair of speakers, and am still not sure if I like em better. Go figure.
Love them. Started with a pair of the WIFE'S 1986 Forte's as the front L&R for a home theater setup, and never looked back. Now own four Forte's, and Academy center, KG2 rears (all for HT), and an extra set of Cornwalls and Heresy II's. Wonderful stuff, pleasant (and even moreso if one reworks the stock crossovers with new components as I have), and big as life.
I am surprised more speaker companies don't use folded horns. But for $1,600 the pair of Chorus II's, yes they are heavy.....best value then and now.
We don't have opp to bring in other large speakers to our home to try them out, I am sure there are btter sounding speakers....5X the price....and we would be mincing words.
Especially love the way synth music and accoutic and electric guitar sounds so lifelike, and percussion as well. I think some of this is due to my Theta Dread II
I have a set of KLF-20 Legend Series Klipsch speakers that I use for 2 channel right now and eventually will be used for my HT too. These Klipsch speakers absolutely rock! They are incredibly dynamic and make you feel like you are right there getting a private performance.
They are really heavy and I know that when it's time to move, they'll probably convey with the house. It will definitely be a very sad day in my life.
Love 'em, that is, the classic or heritage series. I got my start as an audiophile when I went over to a friend's house for the first time back in 1982, and heard his K-horns. I was flabbergasted; never new stereo could sound like that. Got hooked big time. Owned the Forte for while thereafter.
We had a pair of LaScalas at my fraternity house. They were 10 years old, often sat in 1 inch of basement beer-mud, survived rainstorms (for outside parties), danced on, played countless hours at deafening levels and they were still hands down the best sounding speakers on campus.
I heard the same set of Choruses sound INCREDIBLE in one setup and lousy in another. I auditioned another pair in my home (worse!) It's the interaction with the room, amp, etc. that matters big-time! Tube amps especially sweet with the larger Klipsch. I had Fortes for years on tubes and it was fun.
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