JADIS DEFY7, can not get it to sing

Are you sure it's safe long-term running just the 4 output tubes and leaving those other slots empty?

Finally after owning this amp some 15 yrs, added all new Mundorf Gold Silver caps, (The blue Philips caps were not changed as those caps are high fidelity) So my tech guy here in New Orleans, RG decided to test it w KT120's as we were going to list it for sale on Ebay,,,,,due to the shortage of 6550 tubes,,, He had it running w KT120's , I said, why sell , sounds super duper.

Works great. 

Here is a short YT vid, gives a hint at performance. 

I prefer a  quad of KT120's vs 12 6550's. 

Let me try to upload the YT vid

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gERjCM0k6_M

The reason Defy7 can't sing is due to <,Seas Thors>> withn their <<87 db sens>>>  Just built my cabinets for the 6.5 DavidLouis 6.5 FR, ha, Truth is FR annihilates every/any/all speakers.
FR is King of all speakers. 
Xovers are <,dinasaurs>>
Sorry SEAS and Scanspeak,, Now i nered to look into SEAS Full Range, ,,,,~~~ I;'m back~~~ ha, Seas Full range 8 inch  $800 each,, forget it. 
I can get a  pair of davidLouis 10 inch for under $400 includes shipping. NOW the Defy will sing like angels. 

OK all units + Xover upgraded with Mundorf Supreme and EVO silver/gold caps, 
+ new Takman res in the Defy, about 40 Rey Metal res.
+  all nacvships wiring throughout entire system,

addeda  Jadis DPL pre added a  Jadis JS2 Mark2 DAC.
a  few more changes next week.
Here she is with Sophie Milman and Gatemouth Brown , 2 nice reference cds
Sound is extremely low = near nil ,,distortion. 
Hefty bass, gorgeous vocals, , nice crystine highs.
The new navships su=ilver internal wire in the Defy really made the sound come alive and opened the door for all caps/resistors to sing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID8ZhML7808

Stereo 5 took the words that I was going to write

UPDATES
So much going on, Completed all new .47 caps
complete most resistors to Takman Rey Metal'
new Svet 6550s

Running Teles in the AX/AU section.
anyway, had most res swaped to Takman Rey's.tech guy biased  p-er <<Jadis'>> recommend 32/33, 
got it back, 
Mundorf cap blew + 3 tubes blew
so now i know why the other 2 techs biased on <<the safe side> = low at 27/28
+ IMHO biased higher messes with the sound of the tubes, the sonics change = some of the  vocals lost some magic = sounded distorted, 
Richard says he will bias back to 27 = Class B =  amp happy = I am happy + you get more life out the tubes at slightly lower bias.
anyway, amp will be back in operation next week
willl posta  YT vid here on how things went. 
Richard lent me his 
Allen 90 Organ monos 
+ his Dynaco 70
both amps were super, if not close to the $9K retail Defy7. 
Goes to prove you do not need to spend $$$$$ on a  tube amp.
But if you are looking for that extra nuances, deeper bass, richer textures, , especially in full orchestra, you need Jadis'
But you walk ina  room blind folded, it might be dif to deterimine which is which of the 3  amps playing. 
Cost me a  fortune for all these upgrades. 
Richard was the only fair dealing tech of the 4 local techs. 
Priced me more than reasonable. 
Anyway, I am hoping the vocal magic has returned as we also had to swap out a pair of tak carbon 18k res.
maybe that will restore the magic midrange that i had pre resistor swap.

Ok so i do owe a  apology to the chinese maker of the LITE LS9 jadis clone, now that i have my speaker wires 
NOT CRISS CROSSED. Yep, had one black on the tweet going to top bipost, red going to lower bipost,,,made this discovery as i was employing the 
~~Sterling Silver 14 gague speaker wire , along with the copper strand (both are separated by insulation),,and so correct this HORRIFIC error,,now the pre amp can do its job,,as the screwed up wiring caused horrendous distortion. The Lite is working fine with stock EH AT7's.
( i took out the 182 NOS tubes, the EH are more beefy and solid).
So the amp has,,count them
~~16 speaker wires~~~= biwired X2 = 16, 8 copper strand + 6 sterling silver...
Now you ask, was this mod of any value??
Not sure, as the correction of the speaker wires was made at the same time as the added sterling silver mod. 
No I have no time going all copper to copper + silver.
On that mod we will never know the results.
But i can say, i LOVE this NON FATIGUING sound.
Now i am tube rolling and that discussion can be seen over at my topic, New Kids vs Old school tubes.
i can tell you, Old school's are superior.\
Now its a battle twix RCA long black plates vs Siemens, those test results will be complete next week, , just waiting for the shipments.
Both are legenady and who knows how thsi shootout will end. 
But this ican, the jadis is singing now. 
fatigue level , zero. ziltch. Nada. 
No hype, no bias, and no ~~Snakeoil~~~
I always knew jadis had this ~~esoteric design~~~, 
Took quite a bit of genius to figure out all the engineering of the Defy 7. 
IOW the Defy's potential is only ~~limited~~~ by the quality /lack of from the other units involved.
IOW if you employ speakers valued at $100K, yet the voicing is really ona  level of a  $1 sound imaging/fq resolution, the Jadis will sound likea   $1 amplifier, Likewise, give the Defy a  true (not fake) high fidelity speaker, the Defy will sing like a   true high fidelity amplifier.
This quality inherent in the Defy can not be ascribed to quitea  few other tube amplifiers, which are *colored* by the design flaws. 
= There is zero design flaws in the Defy. 
Its all there, just waiting for units that can at least come  near its perfection. 

The Lite LS9 is not all that bad really, sure the trans is a  bit weak, but sure boasts alot of line stage tubes. 
The cayin CD17 Mark1 has new Sparkoslab opamps,  6 singles  and have some Siemens Pcc88's and Siemens E88cc's arriving next week. See if that pops the fq resolution as well.
The Cayin 17 goes up to baton Rouge next week for a  mod of ~~20~~  M SGO caps.
Hopefully he will accept the job, as the board is machine soldered,,very tight squueze.
Lots of things happening down here in New Orleans,,,hopefully i can dump some tubes on my ebay listings, and get some cash to complete all these mods. 
Also , why has the audiophile community  failed to note the E80CC  blows away any 12AU7?
You guys need to go to ebay pick up a  pair and test them out. 
I'd say even a  Tungstrum E80CC would blow away the ~~Holy Grail ~~Tele  AU's. 
  
  http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0426.htm

oh look, china hifi  has the Lite back in stock, less than i paid 5 years ago.
exact same design. ,,no wait,,, they swaped the AT's and now employ AX's...wow, no doubt best tube pre under $1K. 
almost tempted to  pass up the cayin SC6 for this AX,,,but alas i am a cayin guy and i want the 4 AU's in the SC6 so i can employ~~yep you know~~4 E80CC's. 
I, already have 4 ax's in the Defy, why would i want 6 more????
But she's a  sweet lil pre, i can tell you.
 the AX is no doubt superior to the AT design.

.
https://www.hifi-amplifiers.com/en/lite-audio-ls9-jadis-circuit-preamp-hifi-12ax7-tube-preamplifier-p-768.html

@ Stereo5,,,i was wondering if the silver might alter tyhe voicing. 
Silver all over the place.
I'm going with it though. Unsaleable?
Right no the thing can't fetch morte than $3K + who pays the $300 ship?
a  80 lb amp is hard /slow to dump. most likely , in fact, is my final amp. 
If anyone knows the best caps for the Defy's voicing, please chime in. 
btw there is a  amp for sale on ebay,,he has all his vids on YT uploaded on his ebay listing,,you can hear the amp, ,,has M's Gold Silver Supreme/Black casing.  Realy super nice sound,,,beats any jadis  stereo show rooms sound. 
Tin caps are just that cheap caps,,Silver is the way to go .
as i say depends on the cap values which M's i employ, budget is a  issue, The Defy has quitea  few caps, could get expensive. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfqWgHqiPwQ&t=194s

@stereo5   +1

The OP just seems to be on a quest that is his own...with little thought to any of these factors. I am off this thread...total waste of time.

All those mods will most likely spoil the voiceing of the Jadis.  It will be unsaleable after the mods.  Too much silver is never good. 

@ davey,,can you prove the jadis 500 monos have pure copper posts? or how about the mac, ARC, Cary,,do they employ pure copper posts/connects in their designs? 
Its a industry standard to use brass. Sure the mod may only gaina  1% pop in sound,,but perahps more,,more zing, higher, smoother  connectivity transition/flow of electrons. For $20 a pair , and only changing the posts you use,,it might be worth it 100% copper vs 65% copper. 
+ the thin wire on the cayin from board to post,,who knows what it is made of,,i suspect all amps use this tiny whoknowwhat quality wire...
I  will mod to 100% pure silver,,and a  thicker grade.  If you can show Jadis uses high quality pure silver from board to post,,I'll hold on that mod..When my tech emoves that wire from the 8 post jacks,,I will find out how thick and what  is the elements  of the wire,,,,,My guess it is copper,,, but who knows....For small change its worth it to change those speaker post wires to pure silver. 
Remember its in the upper mids/high fq,'s is where we are all after ~~zing N sparkles~~The swifter the current flow, more shimmerings, sparkles, clarity. 
Oh also on the speaker wire,,there is a idea thata  solid wire conducts superior to tiny strand wire. 
I will have a  14ga 85% silver solid strand...I think that will makea  nice mod in delivering fq's with more authority. 

@ jtcf
*son of kenjit~~???

@ Stereo5, Yes, Exactly,,I thought things through very carefully,,I recall from yrs back ~~SILVER~~~ was a  hit among audiophiles,,,I had cheaop pure silver flat,,,i thought it was a joke,,,only 5 tiny strands laying flat in plastic,,,but a  light bulb went off in my head,,silver,,i wonder what kind of conductivity propertiers/charateristics it has,,,~EXCELLENT~~~ 8%+ more than copper = more ZING~~ to the higher/mid FQ.s OK, what can I do to bring as much silver into my system as possible within budget constraints.. 
OK lets see  what is offered in pure silver  interconnects~~YEs I like these nice flat, super extra wide, about 10+ strands all bunched at the connect,,~~Sweeet~~, now for speaker wisres,,,~~hummm, that tookmsome time, but after due diligent research,,Found exactly waht i was looking for @$100/20 ft piece, will make 4 sections, 2 @ 6ft and 2@ 4 feet, as my Defy sits closer to one vs the other Thor.
OK what gague,,,hummm 12 too pricey for my budget,,,ok, lets see what  a 14ga solid silver,,oh btw it is STERLING SILVER,,not pure,,sterling = 85% silver,,good enough for me.. 14 ga arrived,,,sweet, nice N thick for speakers fq's. ,,the lower mikd bass could use copper, as there is no zing in the lower FQ.s,,but heck, for $100, ordered a 2nd 20 ft piece.
Now for interconnect plugs,,hummm, Defy looks like all the rest, ,,+ the new spades i ordered at $8 for 4,,look like all the rest,,even your $20K speaker cables /$10L interconnects you see on the market have these 2 cent connects, = mostly brass. So what is the component on these connects behind all/every stereo, including jadis 500 mono blocks at $50K+++, its brass, what is brass, brass is like 65% copper, and the rest is zinc and other crap. 
So all the ones I am using, the cd connect only, this one has to go 100% pure copper,,waiting ona  a  chinese seller to tell me what ~~4 pieces means = 2 pairs???~~4 pi8eces at $35,,,waiting fora answer,,,will trash the cheap Defy 2 cent plug for pure copper,,,now the Cayin CD player and the Defy will have the tiny cheap 2 cent wires that run from the board to the plug, each nearly 1 human hair thickness, those will be trashed,,i bought  .1 MM and .15MM pure 100% silver wire, 1 ft each at $35/ea ( or near that price can't recall at the moment,,,tech can decide which he wants to use...The speaker wires will have no connect,,it will be direct connect. 
It is the half round style 14ga i purchased.,.
Lets see what lse did i figure out as upgrades,,,I recall a  guy in baton Rouge telling me lets swap the cayin's opamsp to new higher quality,,we did and did get more bang for the buck,,well lets see whats new in opamps,,its been almost 15 yrs since,,,hummm, what are these ~~Discrete opamps~~ really cool looking,,,lets see,,humm, ok these look interesting,,and the lab has a vid on YT,,yes I like this lab,,and the clincher is, its made in USAQ Colorado,,,has 6 single new super highb tech ~Discrete~ opamps arriving,,what else,,,all the cheap 2 cent caps in the cayin have to go,,, four caps @ 0.1 uF, eight caps @ .022 uF, and 2 @ .33 uF's,,all will be the more affordable silver/gold oil supreme/white body,,the black are about 25% more = out my budget,,and will you really note the extra gold in the cap,,,,maybe yes, maybe snakeoil. . I do have budget restraints.. an\yway,,what else,,,I took my collection of amperex (many BB's, my favorite) ax's, au/s, 6dj8's and shipped them to a  guy in washington, he will sell them for mea nd send me some change,,,so in the meantime, whats new on the market,,,hummm, I like these Shugaung and PSVANE, have some ax/Shu and 2 PSvane au's comming from  HK ,,but i recall I wanted the au's in the Defy to be the tall bottle SQ Philips/NOS,,,oh well I'll roll the 2. 
+ found out last night a  lab called TAD has some really nice looking 6922, /AX 7's,,I'll order the 4 AX;'s for the Defy and later on when i have cash, will  order 4 TAD 6922 for the Cayin 17. 
....The cheap china clone of the Jadis pre will stay as is,,later on I will get the new cayin mark 2 tube pre SC6,,,on that unit i will trash all the cheap caps and replace with M silver oil supreme, or something along that line- depends on size of caps,,smaller caps, = more cash for superior M's....and yes  the Defy late next yr will go back to baton Rouge and have some caps replaced with M's,,,not sure how many, or what line of M;s, small caps are affordable for silver /gold. Here is a pic of the Defy...loks like alot of caps,,not sure which M im  will go with,,that mod could costa  small fortune.
 oh also the Thors will have new xover, with each getting 1 10uF Gold Silver Supreme I bought at a  bargain price off ebay,,and the rest of the caps, M silver Oil,,the cap for the lower midbass a  cheaper M cap, all new Mundorf resistors, new copper coils, 
Here is a pic of the Defy 7 under the hood, luckily the layout is claen and open as the Mundorf silver/gold line are quite large. 


https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNSdV6GBWEJSZh2JWazUxqX8w-Zaxg:1574696137206&q=jadis+defy+7+images&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5mIyf2IXmAhUFaq0KHVsUB94QsAR6BAgGEAE&biw=1536&bih=750&dpr=1.25

Son of kenjit?

@mozartfan  What are you talking about with the 'cheap' connectors on the back of Jadis amps?? Cheap 2 cent brass posts...i don't think so~

On the newer Jadis amps, the connectors are superb in all ways. Do you have experience with all of the Jadis amps so that you can make such a widespread statement.
One thing about this thread, IMO, the more the OP spouts...the more he shows how truly inexperienced and biased he is. Mods...how about shutting this one down.

I read through your entire post above and it sounds like you are upgrading everything you can on the amp and CD player.  So, what are you going to do for a preamp?

Ok, made my decision. 
Hang on to the Defy. Now I have to dump on ebay a  tube pre and a  cayin MT35  brand new.
Both at a nice loss.
Here are some tweeks i plan to do over the course of the next 3 months.
Add PSVANE and Shugaung pre tubes on the Defy,,
Change the interconnect post on the cayin cd 17 from the cheap brass which every amp/cd player in the entire universe puts on the units, Even jadis' 500 4 block monos have 2 cent brass interconnects,,that amp, 4 chassis, each weighing 100+++ lbs, have 2 cent brass cable posts/speaker posts...Its true, its a fact. Well I am buying PURE 100% real, COPPE. and get this,,,every amp/cd player in the universe puts cheap 2 cent wires from the board to the speaker/cable connect posts, wires as athin asa  human hair, pure aluminum,,,,well I just bought 99999% pure silver wire and will have my tech take out cayin's 1 cent wire which connects the pc board to the out posts. 
, I ordered new DISCRETE opamps froma  guy in Colorado,,,really nice, will swap out the 18 yr old opamps in the Cayin for those. 
I am taking out the cheap 2 cent caps cayin used in the 17 cd player with Mundorf Silver Gold Oil/white body caps,,the Black body, Gold silver are wayyyy out my budget, I ordered 8 ..22uF, 4 .1 uF and 2 .33uF. ~~~Niceeeee~~~. what else,,,oh ordered a bunch of dif  6922's. 4 russian 6NP5~~~NICE~~~~ taking out the amperex Bugle Boys. 
6Np5 is a  superior design. vs all other 6922/6dj8.
what else,,,oh yeah,,,have 14ga sterling silver (85% pure silver) wire for the top portion of the Seas Thor speaker wires,,IOW, The Jadis has dual connects, Run silver from 1 set to the Thor's top posts , feeds a  W18/Millenium tweet, the bottom post has the W16 as low fq/s = will use copper,,,silver not needed,,,but i think , yes I did order another 20 ft of 14 ga, so change of plans,,,will run sterling silver (85% pure silver) to both posts. will buya  thin  clear rubber tube to house the 14 ga wire,,,no spades a  direct hook up from source to speaker post,.,.speaker posts will have pure copper as per Madisounds rebuilding my Thor xovers,,with all new compoenents,,,going Silver Oil Supreme and also each xover will have 1 10uf Gold Silver Supreme oil, BLACK CAP!!!, each weights about 1/2 lb, and are like small coke cans. The xover will not fit in the Thors,,will bea  separate box outside the speaker. ..what else,,,I've got other tweaks, on the table,,,but these are the main,,when i get the new Cayin SC6,,i plan to make all the new tweaks. new silver wires on interconnet posts, pure copper posts,,all new Mundorf Silver Oil Supreme caps, other upgrades. 
Jadis Defy will have all new caps, Mundorf Silver Oil Supreme. Wioll take out the 2 cent speaker/cable connects from the board to the posts and also take the 2 cent brass posts jadis installs on all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ amps.. get rid of those 2 cent post s and use pure copper posts/pure silver wire. 
Ordered nice wide flat pure silver interconnects from china,,at $35 each pair.,.... ~~well thats the majority of the tweaks. others will follow. 
,,So I am trashing my dream ofa  Muzishare 845/300B amp/FR japenese speaker system. and placing that cash in upgrades to all other components.I think this is my best bet for a  true world class A system,,I see Jadis has the Defy as A/B,,,when i get all the silver upgrades, it will be a  ture pure Class A amplifier at 100+ pure class A watts. 
The EH KT90's will have all the pure clean juice they need to sing. 
From solo piano, to full complex orchestra, 
The Defy will blow away any amp in its class. 
The Thors will be the finest true Class A speaker in the world, nothing will even come close, Not even scan speaks' top Neo designs will come even close to The SEAS with upgrades. 
My Cayin cd 17, ner a cd player will touch it. 
~~Class AAA~~ I just invented a  new tag. 
Class D is like most sytems i've heard past 40 yrs,,Class C, quite common,,,class C, lots out there,,,Class B,, = a good tube amp + Seas speakers + any old tube cd player,,Class A, Jadis+ SEAS,, Class AAA only comes with Jadis/SEAS/Cayin all with Mundorf Silver Supreme Oil/Silver wires running all over/copper posts/best sound ing tubes.
= class AAA> 
I've been on this journey for a class AAA system,,and finally these past few months,,especailly these past few days,,I figured out how to acheive this dream. 
To get to class AAA, you must have a class A or A/B ssytem,,, these upgrades wioll not takea  class B system to class AAA> neither to class A. Class B will always be Class B..only a  class A system can be tweaked to Class AA or class AAA> 

Amy was nice enough to give me a  cali address, so i told her just refund $400 of the $500. So I only took a  $80 + $100 + $50 = $230 LOSS, yeppieee. 
now i can apply that $400 to my paypal 4K ,,and in march I can order the 
CAYIN SC6LS 
Preamp 
for $1500
Now i the Defy will kick in hz's, fq's. Soundstange and all other bells and whistles.

I am a Cayin man, as you know by now. 

well just to get you gets back to your senses,,,I just spoke witha  Cayin dealer in Florida,,here is what he told me, *I can not carry 2 channel stereo units , as  the ONLY thing that sells are mutili channel, 8, 12 channel hpme theater stuff.
Which is why everyone has a  room full of used amps, preanms, etc etc etc,,like pack rats, HORDERS,,and we can not get even 1/2 price we paid. 
Admit it, you guys wood and twot , both you have at least 3 ubits you would love to dump for a few $$$
The Leaf had cheap yellow caps,,
Seems a  ebay reviewer of the Leaf mentioned,,*Oh you bought the unit from DOUK,,?*, He said his seller's pic has the cheap yellow caps in the photo, but DOUK's gorgeous white caps, 
Chinese dealer wants me to ship back the Leaf,,I told Amy,,yeah , like ship to china is $200++ going UPS,,hopefully she can allow some $50 to help with return costs. 

I will buy the cayin SC6LS Mark 2 from china. 
$1500 includes ship.

@woodsage For starters, try listening to collected works of Wolfgang Amadeus for 24 hours straight.  

I want some of what this guy is taking....

The Leaf arrived,,,the 6 beautiful caps in the ebay pic, are missing, replaced with 6 yellow cheap chinese caps, ,,,asking seller for $100 refund,,anyway,,,verdict 
~A~N~E~M~I~C~~~
Sure beats out the other 2 xchinese tube pres, but not by much,,with bass/treble tone controls all the way up, Diana KRALL sounds pretty good, but i do not listen to jazz/rock,,only classical,,In classical, weak, no dynamics, no sound stage, = dud,,,last option is 
Buy 
Cayin SC6LS Fpr $1600 AND 
Add a 2nd system 
Cayin 845 @ $3K.
= $$$$$$$, I am hoping the SC6LS brings life to the jadis. 
1st I have to dump 
both chinese pres at a  huge 50% loss and the Cayin MT35 @ a  35% hit. With that cash I can add the SC6LS.
I was hoping to mention the beautiful SONICAPS in the Leaf for my ad on ebay.
Now i can not I am cheated

well Leaf pre amp arrived today, The pics on ebay shows 6 gorgeous SONICAPS,,,upon opening the hood, the caps are cheap yellow caps, ,,,,I feel cheated. My plans were to dump it on ebay at a  $200 oloss, Now with these cheap yellow caps, i can not ad the unit has gorgeous SONICAPS.
= will need rto take a  $300 loss, or lets say $250 loss, 
$300 + $50 ship. 
I paid $600. 
Well I can not hear it, as my tech guy in baton rouge has my step up trans to repair the cayin MT35, which has 15 hours on it,,and have to wait for a  Step up trans to arrive , from ,,,~~~Montana~~~ = 2 weeks ship time, and thats priority,,,Montana is a HUGE state, with little infrastructure, US mail moves at snail pace,,,I know this pre is superior to the other 2 chinese tube pre,,,but i am after the cayin at $1400+ ship/china,,,
I will need that cayin pre Mark 2 version to bring out all the potential colors of the Defy 7, 
But i am not stopping there. For me, the Defy will sound like a  crow next to the ~~~Cayin CS845A~~~ which can be used as  intergrated or asa  pure class A amp. 
The Cayin 845 will  sound like heavenly angles singing next to the jadis 's crowish registers.  Jadis can only be brought to full life witha  jadis preamp,,and i do not have Ropthchild's gold bank card. Sorry, I wish I could dump the jadis and trade it for the cayin CS845 .
But I will have 2 systems,,maybe the jadis will not be so bad with the Cayin. 
I will not sell the jadis as you acn not get much for a  12 yr Defy 7, maybe $2500, At that figure i ;'ll keep it. 
Even though the Defy has 12 yrs, it has very low, under 1000 hrs, probably less as the guy i bought it from said *I never use it, as I have a Jadis 200 4 block amp system*. Honestly the jadis is brand new. 
So $2500 fora  amp worth $15,000???
nah, don't think so, 

This might be a little off topic but if heat becomes an issue, you can try positioning an electric leaf blower in one corner of the room to move air. 

The thought occured to me. 
*Cheap chinese tube pre amps*,,But then lets consider britsih amps,,,no better not, I can't stand anything from england. 
But lets consider *Made in the USA*. 
AKA the 2 kings, ARC and Macintosh.
If I listen to eithers preamps, and find <<COLORATION>, then my judgement would be
*expensive cheap USA pre amps*. Not sure, as i can only recall hearing 1 ARC pre amp. 
which i found colored and *balmy*, *greyish*. 
So whats better low price coloration or high priced coloration?
I'd go low, as the chinese pre at low price alloows to swap tubes AND swap caps to Mundorf GOLD SILVER OIL,,which are $$$$$$$$$, still under the price ofa  mac and ARC.
I'll take chhinese over USA.
Just some radom thoughts. 
The hum in the pre amp is so MINISCULE,,not sure if my tech guy will repair it,,but its there and i can't sell it with that tinest of hum at open 100% vool. 
If you want to buy it, contact me and i will  have my BR tech guy ship it UPS from his shop, where it will sit on his shelf FOR SALE, cheap.

OK, Here is what i am thinking. If the LEAF delivers muddy/murky/muffled mids/lacks crystaline highs (I am not worried about bass,  as I will employ a  subwoofer), so if the Leaf has no improvements over the 1) Lite LS9
2) Xiang 728,,Then I might have to suspect the issues are with the,,,EH KT90's. 
Yet if I note a  clearer/cleaner mids, some crystal sweet highs/sound stage/dynamics, HIFI Fidelity,,then i know it is not the EH, in fact it was the 2 other pres which were limiting the Defy,,and if this 2nd senario plays out, this will open the door to sell off the Leaf and bring in the Cayin SC9LS,,and will roll the caps to Mundorf Silver Oil. and roll the 6922's to Amperex.
The Leaf should be here by saturday. 
I hooked up the jadis/Lite , to make sure the cd player/speakers had no shorts,,In fact it was the new Cayin which has issues.
Sadly i may have to cover the repair,,but will ask the ebay seller to split the cost.
I try to be fair and equitable , as this is the proper modus operandi, honorable ethos. 
I need someone to give me imput in a  possible combo cayin 845 with the SEAS THORS at 4 ohms, very high demand. 
Is the 845 power output like a  300B amp?
Needs high senitive speakers for ideal performance. ??anyone?

@ Andrew
Yes the EI KT90's i suspect are not as stable/long lasting/as the new EHKT90's, but ,,oh what a  musical tube, GORGEOUS,,but sadly the usage is  only 1500 hours and then they short out.
The tech guy here in New Orleans said about my Defy 7 , as i wanted to have it cked out before i pulled her in after sitting some nearly a  deacde,,,*Oh the Defy has power trans issues,,blah blah blahhh,,I reserached it online and found several tech blogs stateing the Defy had trans issues,,blahblahb lahhhhh(,,In desperation i cked Baton Rouge and google had ADVANCED VIDEO with many 5 star comments,,I drove up, and 2 weeks later said *good to go*,,*All I did was put the bias right to the KT90s;s,,and also your tech guy in NO had AU's in the AX and AX in the AU front end*,,,!!!???%%$%&**&..Got home hooked it up to my Lite LS9 jadis clone/Cayin CD17 and herad a  hum at opening powerup,,,now i figured maybe the New Orleans tech guy was correct,,,,put the Lite , Defy /cayin CD 17 in my Jeep, drove up 100 miles to BR, and had to hear live session, so he had no other pre to hear,,and we both heard a  *MINESCULE/TINY hum* at powerup,,,,,,he said has to do with grounding, not to worry....got back home, order the Xiang at $300, had 2 types of reviews,,Great vs cheap chinese junk,,it is indeed cheap chinese junk,,but the hum disappeared at startup,,so i knew its not the jadis, it was the Lite LS9,,,The Defy is dead quiet.
I have the LEAF Class A pre arriving later this week, I have my eye set on the cayin SC6LS MARK 2.

Cayin makes incredible well built amps/stereo,,Maybe my Thor SEAS speakers were just too much for the lil amp.
Has a 4 ohm speaker post,,but still the Thors are a  very very demanding speaker.
The Defy is the job for the Thor's. 
My hunch is , the Cayin GORGEOUS 845 has incredible mids,,but will lack that crystal highs which i need.
The EHKT90's, may not offer the same musicality as the now very rare, priced wayy too high EI KT90's, are my best bet for the Thors demands. 

However, i see i am transforming intoa  stereo junkie, and may later on order the 845 cayin. , asa  *2nd System*. 
I have a  400 classical cd collection of say 25 composers and all deserve a  Two Level Listening Experience.
Amperex is the most muiscal of all front end tubes, . The Bugle Boys sing like no others. 
The higher glow does not bother the least.
Now i have to drive up to BR tomorrow  and dump off 2 units,,The Lite LS9, which after repairs, can't fetch much = will take a  hit on that,,and the cayin MT35 will also cost me $$$$. The chinese seller wants my tech to respond to his tech guy, to find out what exactly went wrong, as he  knows Cayin are built like jadis, Tank quality. 
The hobby is bankrupting my $900/mo SS ck.

Mozartfan,     I have not the knowledge of the learned ladies and gentlemen here.   I also was disappointed by the hijacking of your post so to get back to a Jadis point. 

I run a DA30 and I know it's integrated but by far the best valves I ran were EI KT90s.  They blew at the same time as an output trafo so not sure which blew first.  At the time Jadis advised that the amp would be unable to handle KT120s without modification so you may want to check.  JJ EL34s I tried also but while musical did not rock enough. 

Last year the Power supply blew so at huge expense I returned to Jadis who fitted new power supply and claimed the KT90s were faulty and at huge inflated cost €120 each fitted what seem to be EHKT120s. Now they could be hand selected but are in plain white boxes. 

The 120s give much more oomph but musically I think the EI KT90s had better mids/highs although maybe highs drowned out less.  I tried for the pre section all sorts of AX and AU,  Not the crazy cost NOS Mullards, telefunkens etc but cheaper marked versions etc and Amperex were easily the best for my ears with mids and highs and stage but surprisingly the cheaper new golden lions did well and I kept some as spares for that reason.  (the Amperex glow too much for my liking)

I know it's totally different amps but sharing anyway as possible Jadis characteristics. 

So you have something from Cayin that developed problems in under 3 days and you're still worried about having the money for another Cayin product? As so many of us keep telling you try slowing down and reevaluating and develop a new plan. Take your time save your money and buy something really good when you can afford it. Buying once and buying right can be cheapest of all even if you spend more than you planned.

Well, True, I guess there have been great SS amps, Luxman, and others,,but the price tag has been high. 
And in the end, $ to $, Tubes high end (Jadis/Cayin vs high end SS, take your picks,,,at least for me, the more decided flavor would be w/o question, the tube amp.
Have you guys not heard/read about *The Magic of Tubes*?
Sure you have.
OK , yes here in New Orleans, we have no high end show rooms, I've not heard a top end SS amp,,nor many (Jadis Orch only great tube in my listening exp) a  top tube either.
So I can only go by what I read and what my experience of the Jadis Orch Reference.
Based just on the Orch Refer EIKT90's. there is no SS amp that will bring me what i demand in my classical  listenings. 
Sure if you A/B a  fine SS vs a  tube,,I might not be able to decipher,,,maybe I could./or not..

Lets say I am biased,,which is not a  good thing in stereo, but in my case, i am biased and stubborn.
My Cayin MT35 went out after 2 days, 10 hours,.,,I need to take it up to Baton Rouge Advanced Video, have Mark look at it,,bought it 3 weeks ago, Chinese dealer says, thats very odd, as he has sold many of these amps with no issues. maybe my Thors 4 OHMs were too much for my flipping the switch betwix ULTRA LINERA mode and TRIODE.
maybe i should have stayed with the more wattage of the 2 offerings. anyway one channel popps and hisses. 
I told him I will work with him and not to worry. 
I am fair and if my tech thinks the SEAS Thor   had something to do with this issue, I will take most of the repair cost and sell it cheap, 
paid $800, looks like i will lose my shirt on that one. = less cash for my Cayin SC6LS pre...
this hobby can really get expensive

@mozartfan. Do you actually believe what you post, because the more you state your absolutes, the more you show how very inexperienced you are in this hobby.

SS amps can be exceptional, just as tube amps can as well...depends on the synergy and set up expertise that you have with your system. IMHO.
Like the member above states...different flavors.

If solid state is a dinosaur,what would that make tubes? Tubes were the precursor to solid state? Me,I have tubes and solid state. I like different flavors.

OK, Yes what i meant is muddy/sloppy warm mid range. 
Which I have in this cayin MT35./EL34's. Now if I roll the cheap chinese au's/ax's in the Front, has 2 au's, 1 ax,,,perhaps I will add some dynamics to the mids /highs,,But I am going to sell it.
So you are correct, tubes are warm by nature, but not according to my Jadis Orch Refer with EI KT90's, which delivered sharp percise FQ's, and , beats any SS amp. 

Tubes give life to muisc, 
There is no SS amp that can match a  good tube amp. 
I hate SS amplification. 
Not sure why folks still continue after all these decades, to purchase solid state amplification. 
Solid state is D~I~N~O~S~A~U~R 

I do not understand one thing you say. " I can not stand a warm sound ". Tubes add warmth. Yes, some designs, some tubes, more than others, but, they all, do, add warmth, even the mega dollar units. I choose to not use tubes, for that very reason. I understand those that do use tubes. But they do not make this statement as you. I think I will leave this thread for a while............Enjoy ! MrD.

The Leaf + Defy deserves a  audition. 
The thought occured to me as i watch a  845 demo on YT, the mids are liquid gold, , yet as you know orchestras are multi layered/very complex interaction of countless FQ's/HZ's. The 845 may meld/= blend>>> all into a  gorgeous delicious <<soup>>, = the details in the orch sections get lost. which will not work for me. My 1st priority in a  stereo is that it offers distinct, separation of the instruments. 
The Defy's inner dysnamics may offer this <,separation>> in FQ's, which the 845's offer as a  <<blend>>.
Won;t work for me. 
I can not stand a  *warm* sound = lacks crystalization of the FQ's. 
I must have a  COLD crystalization, where  voice/chorus is heard as  above (sound stage)  and aprt from the orchestra.
I am almost positive the 300B and 845, although world class amps, are designed specially for jazz.
I'm guessing.
The Leaf will have its fair chance. 
If I think there is more to the Defy (= Leaf is holding Defy back) I will save up for the new cayin SC6LS Mark 2 preamp. @ $1300+ ship/china.

Glad i did not pull the triger on the Cayin SC6 Mk1 on Ebay for $1900...I thought cayin was dead,,,it is this thread which gave me the bump to look into Cayin on google. 
I was very surprised cayin is alive and doing very well.
I heard the Cayin Mk1 on youtube, she 's a  winner, crisp highs, gorgeous mids, + bass. 
Mk2 is a  new redesign. 
1st I have to sell off the LiteLS9 Pre and the cayin MT35. 
With that cash, I can get the SC6LS Mk2. 

@mozartfan, you asked, so here it goes....I have kinda supported you throughout your journey, but I have to say ( and I do not mean any harm ), that, you are all over the place. Take a deep breath, relax, wait for the Leaf, as you did order it, and see ( hear ) where that combo takes you. You are making it impossible for me to continue reading your thread, as you are " jumpy ". This is not a life or death situation, but I am seeing you as a very uptight individual, concerned over one of the greatest and enjoyable pass times we all share; music, and the listening joy it brings us. As to the others ( you people ) here, who do not like the Chinese products, I do not know what to tell you. This is life. You would rather spend $3500. on a handbag, so be it. Not everyone has that kind of cash, so, good for you folks who do. You likely have no issues with the ridiculous cost of medications the pharma companies are presenting to us, and I hope you people never need them........Everybody....relax.....and ENJOY ! MrD.

Here is another option open as a  possibility, 
Sell the Defy and put that cash into a  cayin 845, the Pro model, not the Limited Edition.
This is a  very likely senario to this journey.
Good thing is the Jadis was not the cause the hum in start up, it was the Lite LS9 chinese preamp, Clone of the Jadis $15K preamp,,,,???,,,,anyway. 
Considering i listen to only classical muisc, , i think the 845 tube will offer the finest voicing of orchestra/vocals/chorus.
Over the Jadis's KT90;s. 
I would like imput on what price to set for the Defy, as it does have 15 yrs, but almost no usegae, . I'm thinking $3000, $200 ship/FEDEX.  and add Best offer. 
The EH KT90's alone is $800. + amperex Bugle Boys add another $300. ,,,I might start at $3500, based on new tubes/very low hours on amp = no abuse from R&R, high vol, 
If you are a believer in *break in time* which i am not a  believer,,,its barely broke in. 
any ideas greatly appreciated. 

Here's a thought, 
If the Leaf performs <<OK>>> = Not too shabby sound,,,I may keep this Feal+ Defy7 Set up as 
1 system and add,,,yep,,,I'm moving into the audiophile big leagues,,,,adding a ~~~ SECOND SYSTEM~~~, 
Never ever thought I'd go that route,,,but i just might...why?
Because I noted the CAYIN 845 intergrated (can be useda   power amp as well).
Yes I know the bass might not be there, But remember I am addinga  DAYTON 70 watt RMS sub amp, with the Cerwin Vega 10 inch as a  sub (Leaf has dual outs),,ahhh but the intergrated function of the cayin 845 has only 1 out,,oh well, give up some bass, but the mids are to die for...
This could get interesting,,,but also expenisve. 

Just a  thought,,,or maybe a  ~~~dream~~~~

Perhaps we can stop the juvenile behaviour of calling racism on any criticism of Chinese companies that steal technologies, designs or brand names.  Perhaps the poster who wants a $3500 handbag for $100 would understand the concept of theft if his car was stolen?  Perhaps not.

Anyway, I agree with the sentiment that most preamps out there in the $500 range would not be the equal of a $5000 amp.  One's financial situation can make it difficult to enjoy this hobby!  I would add my +1 to the suggestion to try out Schiit Audio preamps.  I've owned 3 of them, and they are worth a look.  

I spoke too soon as to cayin's deletion of products,,seems cayin is alive and well. Designed in Germany, built in china. 
Beats Jadis by a  very lony mile.
Now that new 6L preamp, is nice,,but price?>?? = $$$$$ I am sure,,and this intergrated with 
<<<MUNDORF SILVER/GOLD CAPS>>>>
UNREAL...
<<Price??>>
I am quite sure = $$$$$$ 
Beats Jadis I am very sure. 
Jadis does not use Mundorf Gold Silver caps. 
I'd like to see the guts to the cd 100 player and compare it to my 2003 cd17.
I paid like $800 for the Cayin CD17. 
Wouldn't sell it for $2K. 

I will consider buying the NEW cayin SC6LS. 
= Read *consider* as ~~~Dream of buying~~~


https://en.cayin.cn/products_info?itemid=117

China is FAMOYS for STEALING and COPYINg all sorts of techology, This is a fact. 
But remember China can NOT build a  <<RELIABLE CAR>>> Not in their capacity, China is only good at mass produce, and flimsy made. 
There are rare exceptions to the rule. Seems some german engineersb took their designs to China for build,,I am speaking  of the world class CAYIN units. 
Yes you heard me right CLASS A. 
I'e heard ARC and other USA labs products,,I do not like USA and HATE all/every british stereo/speakers.
I only like french amps (aka Jadis) and danish speakers (AKA SEAS) , all others i have zero interest.
Now back to my Leaf. 
Both ebay buyers wrote  back to me and gave thumbs up, but did not specify and details. 
From looking at the guts of the unit,,she looks likea  winner..especially if i roll the cheap china 6922's for some REAL muiscal 6922's, The amperex, 1960's. + I have options to upgarde the 6 caps to Mundorks Silver Oil ($$$$$, but caps for small =so only $$). That should give the pre extra sublimity in the mids and especially in the high FQ's. 
Again to bring claity, china alone can not build  a  good sounding stereo, Its not in their genes,,but then look at how much garbage came out of britian and also the USA, tons of trash. 
The holders of the mysteries of super high TRUE fidelity in all things stereo, are the french, = aka Jadis. 
The geramn techs with their Cayin are a  very close 2nd, and considering budget, cayin is the best deal, past 20 years and will remain top budget stereo,,Yet the discontinue great products, and leaves the buyer with few choices. 
I'd put my cayin CD17 with new high grade opamps + amperex tubes up to jadis's best $20,000 CD player, and A/B the 2, you might well prefer the Cayin. 
Jadis is rediculous on price tag. 

In 2 weeks, the Leaf comes up for review..
now here is yet another issue.
When I bought the Defy, had brand new (as the seller never used the Defy) 6550/Gold Lion,,I sold those off, (1/2 price retain value) as i felt (???) the KT90 was the best sounding tube,,so i laid out $700 for 12 KT90's. EH..
Could it be possible the EHKT90's are muiscally  trash tubes?
I have no idea. as I can not afford to roll 12 power tubes. Has anyone heard kt90s vs 6550's and can give me some ideas on sonics. 
The EL34's in the Cayin MT35, sock a nice hefty punch in the bass, , mids are rough and highs simply roll off .
The Jadis Orch Refer with EIKT90's (before they shorted out after 4 years/600 hours/give or take)) offered good bass 8/10, great life like vocals/mids 9/10, highs 8/10, sound stage 10/10, life like band playing in your living room dynamics 10/10. yet had a  slight *steely* sound distortion with the EI KT90's. 
= No tube is perfect.

What would be very nice is if i could roll all avaliable power tubes to acheive the sound i am looking for. I listen to classical only, no rock, no jazz.
If anyone knows of the best tube for classial/voice/chorus, please chime in.
I could go KT120;s, , as i think JJ has 120's for $50 each. =doable. 

Too late, I can't edit.  You and another individual keep saying I am angry.  Angry about what?    I don't know what I am angry about, so kindly let me know.  I do not like being schooled on audio.  I am old and retired and if you do not like my opinions, that's fine, but there is no anger, unless someone puts Justin Beiber on my stereo.....Then you will know what angry is.

Your love of Chinese knock offs are noted, but they are not for me. The Chinese repeatedly steal US technology by reverse engineering. If you are fine with it, good for you!   If you or your wife is happy with a knock off handbag, that’s great.  I prefer the real thing and won’t support that illegal industry.  What particularly bothers me is the knock off handbags using the exact same label  as the real one.  That is illegal and people who buy that stuff is stealing away sales from the legit manufacturers.  It is the same with counterfeit cables and other accessories. 
I have no problems with legit things made in China like the iPhones and iPads my wife and I both own.  However the clones and knock offs are an entirely different matter.  As long as you people with the clones and knock offs can sleep at night, I say kudos. 

stereo5, whatever dude......handbags are an excellent example of copying a design. I see nothing wrong with it. It gives women, and possibly, some men, satisfaction, that they can own a $3500. look alike for under $100. If you look at the parts in this Leaf unit, I would suspect it would cost a few thousand, if it was built here. As far as using many more " smaller sized capacitors ", many designers feel this is superior ( Steve McCormack might have been the 1st to do this, as far as I know ). And copying designs ? Stewart Hegeman; Matti Otala; and a few others, whose circuit designs have been copied, and appeared, in so many American made products. No where in the Leaf ad, does it suggest, it is the equal of the Audio Research LS 22, of which it's circuit was copied. BTW, I have no reason to purchase any amplifier at this time, as I am very happy with the collection I have, specifically, a pair of mono blocks, designed by Hafler, for the movie cinema industry, and I can honestly say, they run my modified Klipsch Lascalas, quite " invisibly ". I did mention I was not fond of McIntosh amps ( solid state, specifically ), that use autoformers. I sold many, and have owned many. However, I did say, I understand why listeners enjoy them, but you still became defensive. And as far as tube preamps....been there, done that. " I " choose to listen to my recordings, unadulterated, non smoothed over, non colored, non editorialized, as this, brings me closer, to what is actually going on, with the musicians, the performers, the producers, and the studio engineers. I gave credit to the listeners, such as yourself, for enjoying tubes, and the Mac amplifiers. You responded hostile, and combative. I do not care if someone stated, that my system was not to their liking ( btw, this has not happened yet, after listening ). My system, is for me, no one else. You are a very angry individual, so it appears, and I am not the only one who sees this. So take care, my friend, and enjoy your system ( s ), as I am happy for you....really......Always, MrD.

stereo5"I put down the Chinese preamp because it is a cheap imitation, knock off which is probably illegal, nothing more and nothing less. If you can’t see that, then you are blind."

I am not blind my vision and hearing are both exceptional and you’re frequent, repeated, incessant hate filled attacks on Chinese products reflects a deeply rooted prejudice, intolerance, and ignorance of cultures, languages, and practices different from you’re own and if this product is illegal in any way you are free to report it to the relevant authorities for proiper remedial action but of course you will not do that you would rather spread you’re distaste for things Asian hear!

Notice I do not say that those who disagree with me are stupid which is basically what stereo5 uses for reasoning, logic, and argumentation!

@mrdecibel ................

I put down the Chinese preamp because it is a cheap imitation, knock off which is probably illegal, nothing more and nothing less. If you can’t see that, then you are blind. Putting a 500.00 preamp with an amp that cost more than 5K when new is just plain silly and will not yield good sound. I purchased a cheap Chinese hybrid integrated back in 2006. It was a Yaquin. After using it for 4 days, it caught fire and the manufacturer refused to warranty it. It went out in the trash, hence “cheap Chinese junk”. I am willing to bet that more than 90% of us here would not do what the OP proposes.   Regarding my system, no worries you don’t like it.  Right now I am loving the sound of my McIntosh MR88 tuner playing through my McIntosh C2500 tube preamp, into my McIntosh MC302 300wpc  amp WITH autoformers and listening through my Golden Ear Triton References. Breathtaking sound to be sure.    

Why don’t you try this: purchase the Dartzeel clone that is selling for $1200.00. It must be a real bargain as the real amp goes for something like 17K. The real Dartzeel uses 4 caps larger than soda cans. The clone uses caps smaller than my finger. I am sure it will sound just as good (not).

What is needed is truth.  Many Chinese factories make knock offs using designs that they have illegally copied(or stolen to be more specific) and then flood the market with them.  They have often times used cheaper parts and such, and the results are undercutting the very companies that they have stolen from.
 
Cable companies are another favourite target, but of course it’s not limited to the audio world.  It’s a relief that finally the American government has told China to stop behaving this way and has initiated tariffs to back up their position.

Stereo5, I feel your wording, and attitude, to be very offensive. That would be like me saying, I do not like the SQ of Mac amplifiers using autoformers ( which is true ), but, understand those that do like them, as yourself. I also feel all tube preamps " color " the music, as I use a passive device, but again, I understand why folks prefer them. You obviously have very little personal use of some of these so called Chinese made clones, so how can you comment. Besides, I know some folks who would not purchase your speakers, for the very reason you put down this " Leaf " product; " Made in China ". Just not justified, imo.....I apologize if I hurt your feelings in any way. Audio, and more specifically, music listening, should be fun, and positive shares, instead of blatant put downs, are needed here, on the 'Gon. Enjoy ! MrD.