Happy Holidays! I recently upgraded my Ayre QB9 to its Twenty status and bought a Bryston BDP Pi. Everything’s sounds good but if I could slightly increase bass and warmth I’d be even happier. My thought is to replace the ASR power cable to a Cullen Crossover II and by adding more silver into the power cord, that I’d increase warmth that way. The second tweak would be to replace the Herbie's Tenderfeet but am not sure what would constitute an upgrade. I have read claims however that certain brand names will increase bass response. I remember the time I replaced the stock feet on my QB9 in 2011 and how surprised I was by the improvement in clarity and detail. Am I just chasing my tail with these tweak notions or can I really tailor my equipment into a slightly more preferable sonic signature. Price point is always a factor. Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks!
Just for fun I ordered 2 sets of Amazon “spring loaded speaker/subwoofer” feet. I decided to put them under my Heresy 4’s, 4 springs on the rear and 3 on the front.
obviously higher and that changes how they sound but the imaging seems much more locked in. Could be placebo. I’ll listen all weekend and then pull them out and see. FWIW I’m on a concrete pad on the ground floor. Expectations are low but just having fun.
i made an error in that I didn’t listen without subs so I will have to do that before I removed. Kinda made I forgot.
@gochurchgo yes they will take you almost there, but the step up to the expensive stuff is as noticeable as going from no isolation to the disks of silence and Nobsound.
The most benefit after the TT was under the speakers and subs, that was a big step.
@goofyfoot if you try them make sure that you play with the space between the pucks. In my case anything more than 2mm was horrible, then I tried 1mm-1.5mm, and we were able to hear the difference.
The gap is room dependent as each room/system has difference resonances.
Look at the scales! 😎 and yes the sound difference is noticeable to the ears to a significant scale, but also even in sound measurements. I will see if I have some measurements pictures.
For Herbies and Isoacoustic, the range is 0.001-0.002 with lots of peaks over 0.002. Or 1/1,000 and 2/1,000.
For Nosebound/Disk of Silence the range is 0.0005-0.001 with very few peaks over 0.001, or 5/10,000 and 1/1,000
The smaller the vibration the better; although I am not a mechanical engineer, I have been told that vibration optimization is not linear but something between linear and exponential with a lot of qualifiers.
I have a Trimov ST2 Pro that now and then I use in one of my systems, and the corrections from nothing to Nosebund/Disk of Silence are significantly reduced, with the Credo/Townshed almost insignificant.
The cool thing is that I can on-off the corrections and immediately notice the sound difference. I did not bother to do the Isoacoustics and Herbies as with the mechanical and listening tests I discarded them.
I can see there's a significant difference with the Nobsound but is it actually audible? I read a little on the Townshend and I'm pretty certain there's a significant improvement with those. Anyway, I still need to upgrade the power chord for my DAC and then use the current chord for my phono amp. The Townshend is where I'm focused but it will take some time on my part. Like I said before, I very much appreciate your input. Its been very informative!
I would save the money from the power cables and use the Nobsound, and if you do not have your speakers isolated and your turntable then add Nobsound to them too.
You can buy from amazon and if you do not like them send them back. BTW,I have nothing to do with Nobsound beyond that they work so I bought many of them.
If you want to verify on your own, and have an iPhone use Vibration analysis it is the closest to an actual vibrometer you can get without a real one, and it is very good.
Whatever you do, I hope you enjoy your system better.
I am in the USA this week so I can send you the actual LDV numbers but here is
I have an Ayre DAC and an ASR Emitter II Exclusive amplifier using Herbie's Tender-feet and I'm thinking that better feet on those two pieces might render better results. My next upgrade however will be a better power chord for my DAC. As far as my turntable, I'm still modifying it and need to replace the tonearm before anything else.
@goofyfoot in my opinion, the most critical thing to isolate is the turntable, then anything with vacuum tubes (mainly because it helps them to last longer) , then speakers (doing this is like treating the room and your gear everyone benefits), then your choice, as to me isolating solid state DACs, Amps, and preamps is alike power cables and HiFi Ethernet switches and cables. If you want and makes you feel better then do it, but by electrical definition they can't make any difference if they meet the appropriate specs. I buy expensive "HiFi" power cables just because they sure make an esthetics impact but I consciously know that they cant change the sound as they are completely different domains.
What are you trying to improve? What components?
I do not want to start a war here, if you want to discuss further send me a message please.
@astolforthanks for your findings! Towards the end, you cited Townshend and HSR as being comparatively the same. The HSR Vortex footers are twice the price of the Townshend footers so I'm wondering whether you have a preference between those two? Also, would you say that better footers are more critical with heavy components such as amplifiers versus a small DAC?
@gochurchgoLet me preface my answer with,🤣 Excuse my English not my first language.
I measured using laser Doppler vibrometer (LDV) from my lab that can measure vibrations in all axis to less than 0.0001mm
I own and paid for each of the products because I want to find the best for me and can afford the best, you will see why this is relevant later. 🤣
I am not a reviewer, nor I want to be 🤣
Everyone’s ears and setups are different, I am happy with mine and discussing whose system is best sounding is nothing short of arrogant.
I tested and use(d)
ISOACOUSTICS ISO-PUCK,
ISOACOUSTICS Orea,
Herbies a few different ones,
AudioQuest SorboGel Q-Feet
Nobsound,
NORDOST SORT FUT
Townshend Podium and pucks,
Credo platforms.
HRS S3 platform,
HRS racks
HRS M3X2.
Solid Tech Rack of scilence
Solid Tech Discs of Silence.
I tested vibrations and sound from one of my TechDas Air Force Three Premium with a Etsuro Gold cartridge.
I did 4 mechanical different tests,
Was hitting the base/platform where the isolation device rested with 100grm brass ball hanging from a 50cm pendulum.
Was hitting the base/platform where the isolation device rested with 2 100grm brass ball hanging from a 50cm pendulum. 2 horizontal directions.
Was hitting the base/platform where the isolation device rested with 3 100grm brass ball hanging from a 50cm pendulum. 2 horizontal and one vertical drop from 30 cm
played music at the same level same entire song, and measured vibration all throughout the song and averaged vibrations in 3 different frequency bands. I did not do this for the Orea, NORDOST, AudioQuest SorboGel Q-Feet and Herbies because I am not an idiot and would have broken my stylus.
Then I ranked them and listen with 2 friends, one of them is the founder of a company that designs and updates symphony halls, like Munich, Vienna, and Teatro alla Scala for example, and ranked and selected. This is all personal, but if my friend is good for discerning true sound for the best Symphony and Opera houses in Europe he is good for me.
The Orea, NORDOST, and AudioQuest SorboGel Q-Feet are as good as the Herbies, but measured and sounded the worse by far and to me they are not worth the boxes they come in.
Now comes the tricky part, how close to perfection you want to afford?
By far the Nobsound pucks give you the best results per $, they rank in vibration so close to the Discs of Silence that is almost not discernable.
Both the Nobsound and Solid-Teck Discs of Silence get you close to 80-84% in vibration isolation of the products that cost thousands.
I am using the Nobsound under my darTZeel NHB-468, my RHEL subs and my AS Montana.
The difficulty with the Nobsound and Solid-Tek disks is that you need to finetune and it is time consuming.
The next best I would place the HRS S3 or M3X2 not much mechanical difference between the 2 along with the Townshend Platform, the Podium for speakers.
Then I would place a home made TT self I had made for me that uses a couple of things to combine multiple material and technics.
It is a sealed marble* box with the inside filled little lead and brass pellets and then the empty space filled with supper fine sand**, the top marble floats in the sand/brass/lead and supported by the Townshend Pucks on to of a HRS SRX rack. in another SRX rack I have another similar custom marble box on top of a HRS M3X2.
* I tried concrete but marble did better mechanically, but sound wise we could not detect a difference.
**the sand/brass/lead is sealed in a flexible flexible Kevlar/synthetic rubber bag. So no dust or lead on the air. Just to have fun, we also did some vibration tests and the entire box got hotter and hotter depending the frequency, which is one sign of good isolation as vibrations get converted in heat. I am an EE, and work with a few Mechanical Engineers that helped me to find the right lead and brass size tiny balls and sand.
For speakers the best are the Credo, which are mechanically a little ahead of the Townshend Podiums but they sound different so it will be up to you which one to use.
To summarize, mechanically at the most logical $ the Nobsound and Solid Tech Discs of Silence are the winners.
Then if $ is no cost the Townshend, Credo and HRS products in some combination.
The Solid-Tek Rack of Silence is just too flexible, even with supper fine sand and lead it resonates like Spanish guitar. Just plain waste of $ IMHO.
I posted some numbers in another thread, if you are interested, but I tested quite a few more after.
way better than the orea or isoacoustics. I have all kinds of measurements. Let me know in a PM if want to see data from accelerometers, laser vibrometers, and sonic measurements.
I’m reading good things about Iso Acoustics and there prices are reasonable. It seems like I could spend a lot of time and money trying this footer and that footer in order to fine tune my amp and DAC but in the end, I generally settle on what just sounds good for a competitive price. The exception might be in finding a cone footer for my Quads that might add a touch of warmth to a very neutral sounding electrostatic speaker.
@goofyfoot - For years I believed that the best way to isolate my components was to install some type of absorbing material, like sorbothane, between the shelf and the component.
Then on one thread I read about cone feet. I started with various sized wooden cones and to my amazement the sound improved
improved clarity and details
improved bass textures
the theory is that it "drains" unwanted vibrations from the component
I then read a post that one member recommended brass/bronze feet
And on a different forum about how to isolate components using a "sandwich" of materials under each component
For each component I now use
bronze feet of different sizes
these were custom made at a machine shop in my area, so the end product was quite reasonbly priced
sitting on a granite tile
with foam drawer liner between the shelf and the tile
here’s a link detialing the approach on my web site
After many footer iterations, I found the Critical Mass footers to be the best under my equipment. They have a strange break in as they adjust to the weight of the component.
Price point may be a factor, but it will be a good investment towards the end of the search for footers.
lowrider, I’m beginning to realize that different feet, under different components, will likely render the best results. I’d certainly like to purchase various types of feet and try them out in various combinations but that’s not economically viable. Testing cables and phono cartridges would be the similar.
I also have a set of Bright Star Isonodes, I used them for awhile. I found they worked well under lightweight components. Overall, I preferred Herbies Tenderfeet. Of course, YMMV.
Actually, I think they may be a good footer for my Node2i.
@goofyfoot Yes, I have a set of the Cardas Myrtlewood. When used under a component, they present no colouration. However, they are highly influenced by the surface they sit upon, IOW if the shelf or platform is a hardwood such as bamboo then the sound becomes lean and the highs are emphasized. If they're on a soft wood, the sound is warmer and the attack is slower. I tried them under different components and was never happy with the sound. I don't think they drain vibration or provide isolation. I moved on to other footers and maple platforms.
@nonoise . It's funny, after going to your link I remembered I tried them a few years ago. I put them under a heavy amp and they completely compressed. So I would need footers that have weight ratings.
I just checked the AV Room Service site and the EVP's have doubled in price. Now I'm thinking about trying the Iso Acoustics under my power conditioner. It weighs about 80 pounds and I'll need four.
Can anybody recommend a set that will work and not compress under heavy weight?
I use Black ravioli pads on top of Final Darumas. A word of caution: Using 3 instead of 4 with one directly centred under the power supply provides better load balancing and offers sonic improvements (Wavac EC300b, Innuos Zenith mk3)
I moved to Herbie’s Tenderfeet under my Krell Digital Vanguard over the summer. It was a worthwhile upgrade. After a few months, I decided try the Iso Acoustics Orea Indigo’s under the Vanguard. The upgraded sound was very noticeable and I would 100% make that move again. Just an immediate tighter, more enjoyable sound. Very worthwhile. The Tenderfeet are now under my office amp.
BTW - Recently I decided to try the Iso Acoustic Gaia II’s and carpet disks under my Vanderstenn 2ce II Sigs and was disappointed. I was expecting the same sort of improvement from an already excellent in my mind sounding amp/speaker combination. Turns out that the Gaia’s really just sucked all of the dynamics out of the sound. I gave it a couple of weeks trying to tweak the placement of the speakers. Eventually gave up and replaced the Gaia’s with the original spikes and there was no question that this was the right choice so I sent the Gaia’s back. I do not doubt people who see an improvement from them - just in my scenario it did not work out. I am using the Vandersteen stands/bases filled with sand on a carpeted floor over a concrete basement.
That can be done as well. Well designed equipment racks and amp stands are isolated from the floor with each individual shelf further isolated. No reason you can't then add additional coupling or isolation for components on each shelf. Always experiment for the best results in your system.
I built custom equipment racks. Used 4" HD EVPs to support the rack and isolate it. Each shelf is 1.5" hard maple butcher block supported by four 2" HD EVPs. Tighter, clearer, deeper bass is the main improvement. Darker backgrounds, clearer mids and overall more tonal accuracy/presence are additional benefits.
I don't use subs but Jim Smith of Get Better Sounds reports that using 4" HD EVPs results in a big improvement.
@vinylvalet The EVP's work well, very transparent. I found out about them on a recent thread and ordered a set for my preamp. Now I'm going to order another set.
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