*^on reading again, I meant of the three speakers I have used it with the Luxman complemented high efficiency, rolled off sound of vintage klipsch versus more traditional British monitors
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I have never heard a pass product in my own system but I do have the lux550 mark II. I have tried it with three solid but different speakers. IMO the lux balances best with high efficiency vintage klipsch, which take advantage of the dynamic capabilities of the Luxman and are rolled off on top. My experience is that the Luxman is absolutely fantastic, incredible resolution and dynamics, but tends to accentuate brightness in your speakers if present.
If you can’t hear them side by side, check out Steve guttenberg review of the Luxman 95th anniversary something or other where he compares it to pass separates. He describes the pass as being warmer, rounder, and less exciting but still pretty, basically.
Perhaps you should just buy a Pass integrated (int25 would be my suggestion considering your efficient speakers) and sell the one you don’t like. Alternatively try the Luxman tube integrated or separates they are supposedly fantastic
But my real suggestion is, you will realize a much much bigger difference by changing your speakers and sticking with the amp that suits your lifestyle, rather than messing about with sources and electronics. If you want meat on bones and high efficiency, check out the Devore orangutan line. You can get used o/93s for less than any of these fancy amps you are talking about here… and in addition if you swap speakers after swapping amps, you may find the new speakers call for a different amp anyway, and then you will be back at square 1. Pick speakers first then match electronics second, is my opinion.
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Audio shows don’t tell you much, different room, different speakers. Nevertheless, they will still give you a rough idea.
I don’t know about Pass Labs. I did shortlist the INT60 for my Marten Duke 2 but got the Luxman L-590AXII instead. Initially I was having problems with the Naim / Luxman pairing (the combination sounded unnatural and a bit bright at the top) so that forced the investigation of a new amp. When the Luxman L-590AXII got into the system, everything sounded just right. There is a certain rightness to the sound as music just flows out beautifully from the speakers and with ease. Personally I find the Luxman an engaging amp, neutral with very low coloration.
I understand you currently have the L-550axii and Marten Django L. I think most here have given good advice. It is best if you can listen to both Pass and Luxman in your system with the Django L but that’s not always possible. Nevertheless, I believe you will be going forward rather than backward if you pick the 590AXII. As for the Pass Labs, nobody knows at the moment.
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I sold my PASS XA25 and bought an LTA Tube Amp. The Pass is very good, but the LTA puts out a better sound in many ways, for my ears, quite clearly. The LTA has a liquid and transparent midrange, amazing, precise highs (every little tinkle :) and a beautiful, superior, high definition bass--at least with good open baffle speakers. I join the chorus that says you must listen and compare Pass to your favorites before buying, whatever the inconvenience. At least, for now, there will be some audio shows in 2020--go to one.
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It does not matter what other people’s opinions are. Your system is not the same as theirs so nothing they say will make a difference. The only thing that matters is how it works in your system. We have a listening room with probably close to 30 different pieces of equipment. Our reference equipment does not always sound the best. We learned that certain things just don’t work together to produce the best sound. Blanket statements like this one sounds that way compared to the other are completely useless. You have to try them in your system period.
Happy Listening
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I bought the 550AII when it first came out and years later in another system a 550AX. I don't think the thought lean ever came to my mind in the 4 or 5 combined years I owned them. Is it possible that this is coming from another part of the system?
Erik_squires I haven't read many of your posts but most of the ones I have seen tend to say in some way that the Pass (in your opinion) is not as (insert descriptor) sounding as the Luxman or Ayre. Can you give some context to the pairing because you say this a lot but it would be helpful to understand why, and with what pairing you had these results. I can relate, as I once bought a pair of speakers that should have been a progression in my mind (and in the opinion of many others) but I found them to be grating and highly irritating over time, despite several room and gear changes.
Me_ohmy I almost purchased a pair of Coherent 12's but just couldn't get anywhere to hear them at the time. I also couldn't get my mind around the driver mods he was making and despite a thumbs up from someone else that owned them, I passed them by. If you wouldn't mind a few words about them on a thread or directly, I'd appreciate it. Frank seems like a great guy with a real passion for speakers. He loves them with with 8 WPC, another thing I couldn't get my head around- but it sounds like maybe you want higher power. I've had several Luxman amps through my house including the class A separates and the 590AII. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. They will give more presence, finesse (while actually providing better control). You wouldn't be giving up anything leaving the 550 for the 590 IMHO.
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So the Bryston 4B3 was leaner than the Pass X250.8?
Is the bass more controlled in the 4B3 or is the X250.8
In my system driving Spendor D9s which are very easy to drive I found the 4B3 to offer a slightly tighter and faster bass. I also found the Bryston to be just a tad more forward and resolving compared to the X250.8, and yes a slightly more leaner sound. I also found the X250.8 to be slightly faster, more resolving, and a tad more lean than the XA30.8 with my speakers. Compared to the pre NRB 4B I used to own many years ago, I was amazed how smooth and refined the 4B3 is. I kept the Pass simply because to me it offered a better 3d front to back soundstage compared to the 4B3 or AHB2. I think the XA30.8 beats the X250.8 by a tad in this category in my system. I can certainly see other folks liking the sound of the these other two very fine amps more to their liking as well compared to the Pass amps.
I never once noticed my XA250.8 leaving its 18w class A bias which is why I switched to the XA30.8 :)
I've been tempted to try the Luxman L-590AXII with my speakers but am happy with my separates and prefer the flexibility to match pre and amp. I really wish Luxman offered the amplifier out of that integrated in a standalone power amp...
Cheers
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I think you guys are talking about bloom… it the opposite of thin… where individual sounds are fully fleshed out, typically midrange bloom is the term used but I have found it can be applied to bass as well.
Low>……………..High
Bryston….Pass…………………….Audio Research
When I moved from a Threshold s500 (Pass)… to a Pass x350 the earlier amp sounded thin. Then I swapped in an Audio Research 160s I was stunned how thin the Pass sounded. It can be relative.
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@ddafoe
So the Bryston 4B3 was leaner than the Pass X250.8?
Is the bass more controlled in the 4B3 or is the X250.8
just fuller? I’m looking for an amp for my Magnepans
which needs an amp with meat on the bones.
Pass or Bryston?…….
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Great posts from those with first hand experience and knowledge. I really appreciate all of your personal thoughts and feelings on specific gear!
ddafoe: "depth and meat to the sound" is a good descriptor of how I also like my music presentation. To me, it's about finding the right balance of having enough 'meat to the sound' and natural realism without losing too much detail. And I guess that is where I am at in looking for something that will provide more of that than my current Luxman L-550axii.
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Interesting that you find Pass to be 'lean'. From all my reading of Pass and their lower end heft, I would have thought it provides a bigger, fuller body to music; which is to my liking.
Yea, I don't personally get the description or hear Pass to be 'lean', at all...; as someone who currently owns the XA30.8, have owned the X250.8, Bryston 4B3, Benchmark AHB2, and Modwright KWA 100SE, I would personally place the Pass on the slower rounded side compared to all of the others I mentioned. To me the Pass adds depth and meat to the sound, and if that is what you like, like I seem to, it sounds so life-like and easy to listen to. The most recent additions to my system to compare against the Pass amps were the AHB2 and 4B3 and I felt they both offer a more resolving and leaner presentation (still smooth though); you hear more of the recording, but I thought they also lost some of the 3d like humans are playing in your room quality I hear from the Pass.
The only recent Luxman I've heard was the C-900/M-900 combo driving the speakers I ended up purchasing and now own, at a local dealer. I thought they sounded great, lots of detail and very smooth; I wouldn't call either of the two Pass amps I've owned 'lean' compared to the Luxman separates.
Definitely try to listen for yourself...; worse case either a Luxman or Pass shouldn't be hard to re-sell if you grab one and end up not being happy with the purchase.
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I own a 505uxii and love the simplicity of it. I was looking at a INT-25 or INT 60 but I like the fact that the Luxman integrateds have phono and headphone stages. I didn't want to have to spend more money on phono/headphone amps and additional cables.
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The L-509X is biased to run Class A for the first 6 watts. The AN-Ks are 90dB efficient. Given my setup, I do most of my listening under 6 watts/Class A.
👍
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Excellent, thank you for chiming in on the synergy you are getting with the Luxman and Audio Note speakers.
I was able to briefly listen to a pair (I believe they were either a 'J' or 'E' model) at an Audio Show and I was smitten by their fullness and naturalness of sound.
Have you had an opportunity to pair them with any Class-A amp?
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I own the L-509X paired with Audio Note AN-K/SPx SE speakers.
The overall sound is open, relaxed, and natural sounding. I think it's a great pairing. Great at low volumes with the Loudness feature on, great at higher volumes with the Loudness off.
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Hi Chorus, thank you for your post.
For the past couple of years I've had the pleasure of a nice 2A3 amp/preamp setup which I absolutely loved with my high efficient Coherent's but I'm moving away from that. I found that I was constantly worrying about the usual downsides to tube gear such as potential tube failure and degradation etc... It got to the point where I wasn't able to enjoy the music the way I should have been and found myself listening more out of my SS amp because of it.
I guess I'm trying to re-create as much as possible the sound I was getting from my tube gear - big, detailed yet relaxing, present (in the room) sound without harshness. I would say that my current Luxman has gotten me the closest thus far to that sound but I'm hoping for a bit more body or fullness and a touch more warmth (bottom end maybe??).
How would you describe the sound you are getting from your Pass INT25 and Tannoy's?
How would you describe the differences between the Pass and Luxman gear you've had the opportunity to listen to?
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I own the Pass INT25 and use Tannoy 15" dual concentrics.
Your speakers I have not heard but they sound very similar.
I have an older Luxman Receiver in use in my office and
I like that as well. I do not see the differences that others
mentioned here.
I have heard Luxman INTs recently at $5k and at $10k.
In my mind they sounded excellent. Of course they were in well
setup rooms with excellent speakers.
You can buy Pass gear with a trial period from Reno Hi-Fi.
You do not mention a specific goal so I assume it
is overall next notch up for SQ?
Have you considered a Tube INT?
That would produce a different sound
and since you like the soft, big sound
you might really be happy with a tube INT.
The one I have my eye on in the new ARC I-50
at $5k. I am waiting for my mentor to listen to it
and advise me his thoughts.
Post more in the future. I like your system!
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A fella is selling his Pass Labs Int-250 Integrated for a fairly reasonable $8,500 dollars on U.S. Audio Mart. This thing cranks; it’ll make 500 wpc into 4 ohms. Like all other Pass AB amps, it is biased in Class A for something like the first 20 or 30 watts, then it becomes an AB amp. This is a good one! Here it is:
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Interesting that you find Pass to be 'lean'. From all my reading of Pass and their lower end heft, I would have thought it provides a bigger, fuller body to music; which is to my liking. I guess that's why being able to listen for oneself is so important. It's unfortunate that is not an option for me in my location, without purchasing.
Good to know from those objective and in the know that Pass are pretty speaker dependent. It sounds like my Coherent speakers may be a better fit for Pass than my Marten's as they are somewhat similar to the Tannoy's.
Can anyone tell me the differences between the Luxman 550axii vs 590axii
I really like the 550 however I wish for an even fuller sound. This is why I am contemplating either moving up to 590 or Pass Labs. Will the 590 provide a noticeable upgrade in this regard?
Erik: Does the Ayre provide a bigger, fuller presentation than Luxman?
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P.S.. - From what I've gleaned talking to A'goners, who were able to be more objective about Pass than most, they are pretty speaker dependent. They sounded really good with some speakers, especially big fat speakers like Tannoy's and JBL studio monitors. Keep this in mind while auditioning or asking for recommendations.
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I own a 507ux, and heard lots of Pass and the 509ux as well. The two are in no way the same amp. Full stop. Before you switch to Pass you must listen for yourself. You will come away with one of two opinions:
- You'll think Pass is incredible
- You can't imagine leaving Luxman.
I personally do not like Pass. I find it lean at best, and scratchy at worst. Like it pulls my ears. I like a lot of Class D amps more than I like Pass designs. However, I recognize I am very much in the minority here, and I don't know which camp you'll fall into but I absolutely do not recommend switching "blind" here.
If you do get to listen though another brand to consider is Ayre. Also a different sounding amp from both Luxman and Pass.
My point, BTW, is definitely not to convince you that I'm right and others are wrong, just that these amps sound so dissimilar to my ears I can't suggest you personally switch without listening.
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