Inexpensive speaker cables: any experience?

Post removed Feb 11, 2022

That was me, the advice was not good based upon the product after looking into it more.

I’ve spent a lot of time fooling with cables in addition to building high end speakers professionally. It seems silly to hook up $300-1k cables to a speaker that uses plain copper speaker wire internally.  The same thing applies to power cables. $1200 power cable that connects to a wall outlet that’s been wired with the cheapest copper the builder could buy. 

 

I use a quality oxygen free 10 gauge wire on my 4 ohm speakers, and 12 gauge on most everything else. Ray Kimber’s wire excels in long runs or in a noisy environment.  Most speaker wire runs are short distance. You don’t need a heavy gauge for that. Folks spend gobs of money on wire because it makes them happy knowing they have the “best”. 

I’ve experimented with speaker wire for years. I haven’t had the big money to purchase ultra-expensive wire, so I’ve used mostly inexpensive stuff from places like Best Buy, Radio Shack, etc. I’ve also used stranded speaker wire sold at Home Depot and Lowes, plus both stranded and solid core copper electrical wire sold at those places. Most of the time I’ve used 12 awg, but I’ve also used lower-gauged stranded and solid copper electrical wire to see how they sounded. I always heard that thicker gauge wire was the way to go. Most of the time I’ve been fairly satisfied.

Then I read this on the Morrow Audio web site that described their speaker wire technology:

"Morrow Audio signal cables use ONLY solid core OFC (oxygen free copper) wire, NEVER stranded. ...We eliminate all stranded wire distortion effects by using only solid core wire. You will hear much more information in your music that was lost from the smearing effect that stranded wire produces. Our cables contain multiple runs of wire. They are mono strands, individually insulated from each other. These multiple runs yield a profound and realistic presentation of the music. ...Morrow Audio signal cables ONLY use a small gauge wire. The different frequencies ride at the same plane in the wire, resulting in less phase and timing errors. A more accurate sound is the result. The soundstage is huge, instrument timber is accurate, it seems like the performers are in your room."

So I wondered if I could duplicate something like that without the big price tag.

Got on the Lowes web site, looked for the smallest gauge, solid copper wire possible, and found this: Southwire 1-ft 22/4 Solid White Security Cable https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-1-ft-22-4-Solid-White-Security-Cable/4284059 (36 cents a foot). (The pictures are a little confusing, but it’s solid core, tiny 22 awg copper wire.) Not sure if the wire is oxygen-free copper. Definitely not multiple runs like Morrow Audio (other than 4 individually jacketed wires inside a polyvinyl chloride jacket), but I thought it was worth a try on my bi-wired Vandersteen 2CEs. So I bought a 10-foot length.

I didn’t want to spend too much additional money on this experiment, so I ended up buying cheap banana plugs at Lowes (8 pairs: one box of 10 plugs for $21.97, 3 additional pairs at $6.98 each).

I cut up two 4-foot lengths of the solid copper wire and put the plugs on. Once I hooked them up in my system, I was astonished. It was like night and day. Much more in the high end of the audio spectrum, so I could clearly hear ringing cymbals in Billy Cobham’s kit on his Spectrum Lp. Kind Of Blue by Miles Davis was awesome - more distinct instruments coming from different locations nearby and in the back of the soundstage.

Lots of spaciousness too, with full mids and lows. The 3D soundstage that I always look for was everywhere, from classical recordings by Karajan and Abbado to rock and electronic stuff like Los Lobos, Massive Attack and Kraftwerk. Natural reverb from concert halls (along with studio-applied reverb) seemed more alive to my ears. And I’ve discovered many more recordings that were mixed with "out-of-phase surround sound" that I didn’t notice before.

Since I put these speaker wires together I’ve added some Fo. Q 1mm damping tape to the speaker wires. Everything was massively improved once more in all the ways I’ve listed. Much more focused results in every aspect.

Once I hit the big time by winning the Lotto, my audio equipment budget will be close to unlimited. I have no doubt that a lot of the more expensive stuff I could buy will astonish me even more. Until then, I’m totally satisfied with my little experiment, done on the cheap with my fixed retirement income. This is the most enjoyment I’ve had from my stereo system in years.

 

I am waiting for audiophile voodoo atmosphere for Bluetooth.  "Evacuate the area between the device and the speaker, recharge with our special gas mixture.  We use only pure six-nines nitrogen and oxygen.  No carbon dioxide, no water or anything else that would ruin the musical experience.  There will be no stray magnetic fields or deleterious solar flare congruence to distort the purity of sound.  Highs will be higher, lows will be lower, there will be an increased sense of "air" no pun intended."  Expert customer testimonial from B.S. "The atmospheric change from Voodoo was incredible!  Delicious sweetening of the treble, dare I say tube-like elegance!  Bluetooth is only 16 bit resolution, but with Voodoo, I swear it was 18 bit!"

Qed silver Anniversary cable is hard to beat for a "relatively" cheap cable. I've used their bi wire caes for years, sound good to me. 

what‘s your favourite brand of instant coffee ?

@tsushima1 $30,000 speaker cables. Just f'ing wow. I can't even imagine the system these are connected to. I feel like my 14g Monster Cable is junk now.

@dcmtwowner1979 

 

Not mine … Merely an example of how Stupidly priced speaker cable can get 

There are no qualitative differences between cables above a certain build and materials price point. $20k cables are a rip-off. Yet you can easily spend hundreds of dollars buying cables that you will not be able to distinguish from cables costing orders of magnitude more. Cables are like wine-- many flavors. They do not improve based upon getting more and more and more expensive.

Want to bet? There are easy experiments to test my assertion.

Want to bet? There are easy experiments to test my assertion.

Some links would be useful to post.

Cables depend on system matching of course, but cheapish off the reel cables worth looking at would be Jupiter or Dueland, WE copies? Not tried yet but some good reports. Popular with tube supporters.

I have used the Blue-Jeans speaker and interconnect cables with good success ! I replaced my other cables with them about 10 years ago and they beat them out at a fraction of the cost. I then about a year later, tried Audio-Envy cables and that took my system to another level. Now I use them exclusively both their speaker and interconnect cables. Captain (the owner) at Audio-Envy is great to work with and I’ve upgraded through a few of his improvement changes with great improvements in sound. Their interconnects have fairly low capacitance which allows for longer cabling lengths without attenuating the treble. Highly recommended ! ! ! Give him a call ! He’s easy to talk to and very informative...

i remember quite a few years back, at a high end audio trade show, over a casual lunch break with one lew johnson and jeff fischel of c-j... talking about lotta things, the subject of mega buck cables came up, lew made a point... in the high end audio business many of the true greats, bill j of arc, carl marchisotto of alon, stew tyler of proac, dennis had of cary and so on... no one makes so much money to live in mansions, have sports car collections, etc etc

the few, rare exceptions seen have always been folks who started cable businesses, noel lee, jim aud, joe reynolds and so on... just some food for thought...

Maybe I missed this in the thread, but what is your budget?

I just bought Elac 14 Ga. They sound the same as the Morrows they replace....and the BlueJeans before that ...and the 10 ga Daytons. It's almost as if cables don't matter...

@secretguy

i found found that cables do matter, but they seem to impact the sound in inverse proportion to the size of the signal they transmit... so most cable sensitive are phono interconnects, then analog or digital interconnects, then speakers cables least (assuming sufficient gauge and basic cable hygiene of course) ... just sharing my personal experience

but if you think about basic physics and notions of resistance, reactance, it does make sense

I was thinking about upgrading my Transparent Super Bi-cables; but, yesterday I grabbed a tool and re-torqued.  On a few of the binding posts I heard an audible "crunch".  And when I resumed listening - wow!  They sound like new speaker cables.  I believe the metal in the spade terminals can crystalize and breaking through that will increase conductivity.  The difference was quite audible.

+1 @jjss49  If wanting to invest time and money into cables start with those closest to the source. Most true with vinyl.

Also enjoyed the 'casual lunch' discussion. Two aspects come to mind, profit margin and cliental discretionary income for high priced cables.

i found found that cables do matter, but they seem to impact the sound in inverse proportion to the size of the signal they transmit... so most cable sensitive are phono interconnects, then analog or digital interconnects, then speakers cables least (assuming sufficient gauge and basic cable hygiene of course) ... just sharing my personal experience

but if you think about basic physics and notions of resistance, reactance, it does make sense

Well...you don't pull out the old "your system isn't resolving enough" trope...so congrats on that.

Coincidentally, I'm not messing with a couple different interconnects between my TT and pre. I'd love to say there's a difference. Really. I'd love to. That said, I will likely but another set, merely to have a built in ground wire.

@secretguy 

your system may not be resolving enough... 😂

Cables depend on system matching of course, but cheapish off the reel cables worth looking at would be Jupiter or Dueland, WE copies? Not tried yet but some good reports. Popular with tube supporters.

Or it is all B$, and the system matching is just a “tour de farce.“

Having the gear be neutral would mean that spicing them to be cold or hot, would not be required.

I dont know about expensive or not but i changed out my more $ (diy) speaker cables to my (diy) furez 4/12...the Furez more than holds there own and are kind of holding the crown of the cheap diy’s as of now.In doing the "diy" cable’s i have sold my more expensive cables and have not regretted it one bit.Im a bit shocked at how good the performance of the furez is really.As i said before...I think there’s no good reason other than they are cheaper that i would change them out...Oh and that just cant leave well enough alone ⚡

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002006654011.html?spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.2eeb4c4dx8gKCY

They claim these are hand woven - appearance & sound quality are much better than those customized by machine.  Teflon covered, 16 strand core silver-plated OFC copper.  I ordered enough for tri-wiring my Spendor SP9/1 speakers.  I'll let you know how they sound.

1.5M/1pair：75USD (2-2 Y spade terminals)

1.5M/1pair：95USD (2-4 Y spade terminals)

I'll let you know how they sound.

Brother has a dog named cooper?...i think they will sound descent.Ive bought from ghent before and was pleasantly surprised.

"They look like they sound great!"

What does this mean?

Brother has a dog named cooper?...

Like ol yeller, they are copper coloured?

Yes, the spelling does inspire confidence - for sure!

I'm just happy they're not counterfeit name-brand cables - yikes.

I bought a preamp and later an amp from Queenway - both sound great; better than expected.  He seems to know what he's doing.  As always, the proof will be in the pudding,

Side gig for a barrel-maker?

Canare 4s11, there not going to sound like $1000 plus cables but they are very nice. I think you can pick them up for $1.50 a foot. I tried some after reading reviews, was very impressed, long breakin. I hooked them up in garage and let them run a few weeks. There so cheap you can buy extra runs and try them running shot gun. A single run comes so you can biwire if you choose, if not just double up wires and do non biwire. 

Used Acoustic Zen Satori.  End.  Set.  Match.

You can buy expensive cables, or make them. Sonically, the expensive might sound 1-2% better. You are really paying for the build and quality of the wire. I just make my own buying OFC wires and stringing them through a pvc tube. They sound great and very heavy duty.

Items Used: 10awg OFC wires $40, Vborg plugs $60, braided sleeving $10, shrink tubing $15

Cheers!

Supra is the oldest speaker wire manufacturer they offer wonderful discounts on bulk cable if you self terminate you can get $2000 cables for under $200 madisound is the US dealer 

They might not look like the $2,000 cables. But I think DIY should makes you feel good that accomplish something. Took me 2hrs and kids were watching me make them. Hardest part was tubing them.

As @johnk has pointed out , Supra are pretty good cables for the $

Inexpensive is relative.

I have auditioned and noticed impacts of speaker cables, interconnects and power cables.  

I have Kimber Kables speakers and interconnects and have traded up interconnects in the past.  It may be worth calling them if you are interested in trying another Kimber product. 

Using 52 yards of Neotech Solid Core UP-OCC in PVC. Turned in to 6.5 feet pairs of speaker cables. For $119.06 delivered/including tax and shipping/I'm impressed.

Bested my: KS6063 (what this Neotech creation was modeled after/less the stranded) and my Fidelium's.

Well, not bested. I put my stranded Duelund with the solid core Neotech and it comes close to my my KS6063. However, if you want a taste of how it gets out of the way......it's fun with the Neotech and Duelund. However, my KS6063 wins up top and timbre. 

I like Paul Speltz's Anti Cable stuff. It doesn't work on every configuration but I've had good results here and there over the years. Cables make an obvious difference but it's system dependent and more money doesn't always buy better performance. I'd recommend somewhere like https://www.usedcable.com where you can try different cables at different price points. And this on why cables make a difference if you want to know more.

 

@rooze that last link you posted talks about the main measurable parameters having the most pronounced effect.

Conclusion #1 – A cable’s electrical properties can be measured. In doing so we find there are a number of significant differences between different cables designed to do the same job. These measurable differences in the electrical properties of cables can be correlated directly to the differences we hear in the sonic profiles of cables. [more later]

Therefore measurable differences in the electrical properties of audio cables can and do affect how the music sounds and in a predictable way.

We go right from conclusion #1, to finding that most “magical cables” do not come with specifications on their main electrical parameters.

They are mostly sold as “Just listen to them”.

If we were to know that some specific capacitance and inductance helps a specific system, then it gets easier to move from that cable to a “slightly” different sound, in predicable ways.

Currently it is more like a Pentecostal revival, where one reaches into a bag of snakes, and prays like hell that the outcome is not going to go too badly.
(Pulling out the snake shaped cable that hopefully tames their system… and if it is directional, then they have hopefully grabbed it near the arrow behind the head.)

 

If we knew the basic specs, then things like skin effect and dielectric biasing can be considered when we know that cable A and cable B are largely similar.

These CHeLA cables are not cheap, and they remind me of a Kimber 4TC or 8TC. And they have low inductance.

https://www.vhaudio.com/speakercables.html

Has anyone used these in a DIY setup?
Maybe I’ll order them or just try the Kimber 8TC…

 

Historically I usually have been more prone to using monoblocks so as to keep the cables short in length.

Im using chris's quad 12 and i have been really happy with all his wire.The chela are something i id like to try as well.Chris products have never let me down.

rooze, yes, Paul Speltz right down the road from me in Lake Elmo. Well, when I lived in MN. I have not tried his stuff yet.

Yeah, I'm a cable guy and been at it for 41 years and counting (since I was 17). True, system dependent and more money does not always buy better performance. However, I've owned KS3033, KS3035 & the KS6063 for 5.5 years and sold those for what I paid for them. I got a great/deal/right place at the right time with my guy at the Cableco.....so, very familiar with the usedcable.com., too. 

I went to Silversmith Fideliums back in Nov 2020. However, I missed some of what my KS6063 does, I sold. So, I created my solid core Neotech with stranded Duelund/12 awg tin covered copper. I really like the results over the past 3 months now. Of course, I listened to the Duelund's separate and the Solid core separate then put together to create my KS6063 DIY.

Now, I'm going to try the solid core Neo' with the Fideliums. I run: Illuminations D-60/Kimber, Snake River Audio Boomslang & HFC Reveal for SP/Diffs. IC's: Kimber KS1030 or Snake River Audio Cottonmouth Gold. I'm a redbook guy/1100+ Cd's.

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier (ZMA)/class A, to my modified Acoustic Zen Adagio's/single capped with Mundorf MCap Supremes at 4500. Absolutely stellar at revealing cable nuances. I'm new to this Forum/have over 3K posts at Decware.

@paulgardner - been using Kimber 8TC’s for a while now, and haven’t had the urge to hunt around much. My only cabling superstition is to do the entire loom from one maker (so all my cabling is Kimber, “Ascent” series - one up from their least expensive line)

I figure 50% of audio enthusiasts think the above makes me a foolish wastrel, and the rest think I’ve never heard music, so probably landed in the right place

Let us know if you find something that you like!

Have a great day

 

Not sure what your definition of inexpensive is.  However, I will offer up some suggestions: 1) Zavfino Prima....., 2) Grover Huffman Pharoah cables, and 3) Cullen silver/copper cables.  

The good thing about the contemporary audio scene is the unprecedented number of high caliber audio products in all categories.  I have no doubt that there ore other excellent cables I would like that I have not heard.

Duelund 12 ga.  The reviews are mentioned in an earlier post. A well known speaker manufacturer steered to them as he said they had embarrassed all the big ticket cables they were using. $8.00 a foot!!!  Tried them and they surpassed the top of the line hiDiamond and wywires diamond cables I had. In one review (perhaps one of the ones shown in the prior posting) the reviewer replaced high priced High Fidelity cables with them. All systems are different but in mine they are quite something.  Here is an excerpt from the positive feedback review: "Generally speaking, all of the Duelund DCA tinned-copper cables share a unique combination of intensity of tone color, dynamic prowess, timbral realism, vivid presence, and a compelling portrayal of beat and tempos, that distinguishes them from copper or silver cables, and makes them immensely satisfying to listen to music with"

Nonane ebay cables is just a crapshoot with fairly predicted results.  If you are looking for an inexpensive upgrade of your entry Kimber,  check Zu Audio cables, proper design and value for money from a former Kimber Kable higher end line designer. 

10 Audio Mogami Neglex cables on AG

Very transparent and neutral cable, IMO. Running a fool loom in my system. I was embarrassed when I heard these and thought about some of the megabucks cables I'd previously spent money on.

I will second the suggestion regarding treating the room. The best money I've ever spent on my system.