I want to move from Rega Planar 6 help me to pick a new turntable

@unreceivedogma

Really!

Earlier this year I picked up a Technics 1200gae with Hana Umami and I am smitten. Certainly an improvement over my VPI Traveler. Technics is hard to beat at its asking price. 

Technics makes audiophile tables? Really? I had no idea.

I have had a VPI HW MK IV for 37 years. It still works.

This reminds me of the days of the old Technics SL1200mk2. So many people quick to discount it as simply a DJ turntable. The many years of minute improvements, all that money invested and reinvested to make something that held its own among more novel designs. They were great with almost any MM cart but a tonearm rewire and some careful tonearm damping and you can use it with pricier MC carts.

The new Technics stuff is noticeably smoother at the gimbal. Throw whatever MC cart you want on it out of the box. Look at the prices of the turntables the 1200GR is pit against in this review. Take ownership of one of the Japan-made decks and you will discover a quality and ’feel’ that magazine photos simply cannot convey. They are jewel-like, precision instruments.

Kuzma Stabi S, or if you can afford it, Stabi R with a 9 inch 4 point arm.

@rauliruegas +1

@rauliruegas said:

The Rega RP-10 could be your best choice. Is up to you. It's tonearm is an excellent one.

No doubt a fine piece of engineering and a radical concept - but considerably more than what the OP was considering spending. 

I have the 1200G (and had the 1200GR before that) and its a great sounding turntable with superb build. I looked at the P10, but was priced A$2.5K more than I payed for my new (Japan build) 1200G. No regrets choosing the Technics.

OP, sounds like you made up your mind on the TT, congratulations.  Can't emphasize enough the importance of eventually upgrading your phono preamp.  After doing a lot of auditioning, I continue to be completely blown away by the PS Audio Stellar Phono Stage.  I don't know if $2500 is in your budget but it is an unbelievable deal compared to the competition.  I'm not saying there isn't better (there undoubtedly is) but nothing touches it anywhere near its price point. 

I told ya, at that price you can’t beat that Technics. Set it forget it and enjoy it!

I have never heard a Rega that I liked. I think that similarly priced Project tables sounded better. I really havent liked the limited number of Rega cartridges that I have heard.

I had the Rega Planar P6 with the Ania MC cartridge that never came to life creating an emotional connection for me in my system. I sold it and bought a VPI Scout with an Ortofon 2M Blue. Sounded okay but again, it never blossomed in my system. So I sold the VPI and bought a Mofi Studiodeck with their standard MM cartridge, and voila, the magic was there! I can’t explain why the least expensive of the three had the optimum synergy with my preamp and the rest of the system. I just know what I hear. The other two just sounded constrained by comparison. Lesson learned, it’s not necessarily a function of how much you spend. Sometimes less is more.

Oh and congrats on wanting to move away from Rega.  It is like strava to the cycling world----  common.  Go for the less common---  EAt or SOTA would fit the bill.  And VPI somewhat.

Project and EAT are partners in that the owners are married.  If anything Jozefina makes her husbands turntables be a bit better.  Really, maybe the gap is closing, but not long ago there was no comparison, with EAT feing the FAR superior line.

I will also disagree about Mr Hall.  I too dealt with him regarding some EPOS Elans 6 or 7 or so years ago.  He made sure I got the matching stands quickly even when the retailer was out and had no clue as to when they'd be available.

@mattmiller +1

I assume your Rega is on a wall shelf? I had a P8 and P10 on a stand  and if I coughed hard enough the record would skip. 

I don’t think a single one of your choices is better than what you have. Just because you can’t adjust azimuth and as far as VTA goes, between the adjustment of arm height and downforce, realistically cover enough range in that respect. By adding one thing(azimuth), you lose another (stiffness) in the process. And before someone chimes in that I’m wrong about this; yes I know about using microscopes to measure the exact cartridge cantilever rake and hyper extensive tools (borderline ridiculous) for exacting measurements that in the end may still not get you all the way there for reasons too numerous to get into here. From what I’m guessing from your table choices, you are not one of these Type One audio fanatics and there is nothing wrong with that (I’m borderline) who will spend endless hours wondering if this is as good as it can get, may I suggest an alternative route. How about finding some really good audio dealers that you can reasonably travel to who are passionate, and really understand what they sell and work with you to make you happy. I know that this is not always easy for some places but if you can, it might be a better alternative than buying blind on the opinion of others. Not to mention the ability to have a pro helping you out with support and not having to ship it somewhere hoping it gets returned, repaired, adjusted as you hoped. I myself try to do this in most of my purchases but I live in Chicago, a large metropolitan area. Kinda like the two people that I trust for my scotch choices (they are on the same page as me). It narrows down confusion because in the end there are simply too many choices and unless you like that becomes more of a hindrance.

Here is an update. I found a local dealer who stocked Technics SL-1200GR, I went there and got it to test drive at home. I was upfront, that I am looking for an upgrade from Planar 6 and may return Technics if I won't like it. They were ok with that.

So I brought it home. Here is just first impressions.

Set up. Much easier than anything I tried before. Literally it took me 5 mins on Technics to do what it took me at lest 15 on Rega on other tables I had before. Head shell helps a lot.

I put the same Dl-103 I had on Rega and I have not bothered to set up VTA or Azimuth. Literally put cartridge, adjusted overhang, verified that it lined up with protractor (by naked eyes no tools used) and that was it.

Then I went to listen few records. The setup was absolutely the same as with Rega.

I was a little bit unprepared to what I heard. I was expecting to carefully listening to all the details and look for some barely noticeable changes in sound. I was wrong. Big time.

Immediately I heard, much better low end. With Rega it was good, I could hear bass guitar, kick drum, etc. With Technics I hear them being played. Not just that there is bass guitar, but that it is being played, with all nuances. Attack, Release, transients. It was very apparent. 

Then I noticed more details. Especially on my beloved Dire Straits first album. As you may have heard Mark Knopfler plays with fingers instead of pick. And on Technics it was very clear. I am a guitar player myself and I know what to look for and indeed all that little dynamic nuances only possible when played with fingers were there.

I will continue to listen, but to be honest I am shocked. I was not expecting it to be that different.

I then ask my wife to listen to that table. She is no audiophile and to some extent a bit skeptical. But she immediately told me that it sounds better.

Just get a cartridge that doesn't require azimuth adjustments. You may want to consider a P8. Arm is fantastic (RB880).

Hello Audiogon,

In the last 45 years I have had over 200 TT and for the last 25 years have loved my VPI"S All Three! I have ventured off to customs in the last few years such as UK Builder ARB Rega, Hungarian Builder, Stradivari, But the best TT for the Money is made by S.A.M. in Croatia! It is superior to Anything Under $4000. and up! Do your homework! Ivan is really easy to work with and talk to and it will far exceed ANYTHING in its price range PLUS! 

All the Best !

I had a associate at a HI-FI shop tell me when moving up you have to go BIG in order to hear a real difference in sound, otherwise you are just making a lateral move. He then played different systems. I went from a Pro-ject rpm 5 to MMF 9.3 - huge difference in sound... so much quieter.  I love it. Next is the cartridge upgrade maybe

I have the RP-8 and swapped to a Garrott Bros cartridge - tremendous sound!

Hey OP,  one turntable for you to consider that's within your price range is the Mofi UltraDeck.

I purchased it last year to replace my Pro-ject Classic, and it was a great upgrade.  It is dead quiet, smooth sounding, and tracks very well.  It's got VTA and azimuth adjustments that you're looking for.

I have not owned that many turntables so it's hard for me to say how it measures up against other tables, but I think this is a great table at its price range.   I paired it with a Hana ML.  It sounds great and I'm very happy with it.

At first I wasn't sure about its look.  It actually looks better in person and I really dig the all black look.

Anyway, good luck with your search.

My preferred stylus is Shibata and they don't make anything with this profile.

your assumption that what you hear is due to stylus profiles may be way off mark as there are many other variables at play. Excluding cartridges solely on the basis of stylus profile is a very simplistic approach which will deny you many excellent potential purchases.

I'm all in for the VPI because of the adjustability of the arm and the upgrade path. The unipvot arm  takes some getting used to when handling, but the new VPIs all have gimballed arms, making that issue moot. I like my unipivot arm, and have no interest in swapping it out. But I understand those who feel differently. For certain , SQ is not the issue. 

Get an EMT 938 from Dusch Studiotechnik. For Euro 4k you get a one of the best TT under $20k with inbuilt phonostage which in itself sounds like a serious $5k phono and the TSD-15 cartridge which is again a solid $3k cartridge. All this as a package for $5k only.

There is another option that local dealer is offering me

GOLD NOTE PIANOSA TURNTABLE WITH B-5.1 ARM 

What's your opinion on this one?

Yes, you don't understand my posts because my bad explanation. Never mind and go a head with what you want. Sorry to disturb you.

R.

"I'd never own another Music Hall. Poor quality and Roy is a jackass."

I had to deal with Roy Hall back in 1999 when I owned some EPOS ES22 speakers your right he is a self absorbed meglomaniac!

Matt M

@rauliruegas I guess I have not completely understood what you said in that posts. If you mean that I can have azimuth adjustment by upgrading tonearm - it is not the path I want to take.

@adrobitko  : You don't read what I posted because you can have the azymuth characteristic. What MF uses is not the issue.

All is up to you.

R.

@smatsui Thanks. I appreciate the advice. But I don't want to be limited to Rega cartridges. My preferred stylus is Shibata and they don't make anything with this profile.

@adrobitko, get a Rega cartridge, I recommend the Apheta 3 and get a better phono stage.   If you can't afford it now, start saving.  My Rega P10 blows away my friend's VPI Classic with on the fly adjustable VTA.  Before my friend bought the VPI, he wanted on the fly VTA and adjustable azimuth.  He's had the VPI for over 5 years and I asked him how often do you use the adjustments, his answer was he doesn't use them.   The more adjustments that you have, the more that you'll screw things up.  You may think that the Parasound is a good phono stage but you need better if you're trying to improve your analog playback.  My 2cents.

@ejlif thanks for sharing the experience. that is my concern with VPI, it is harder to set up properly and for some it is hard to deal with unipivot. I know they make tables with gimbal , but due to COVID it is hard to find anything that won't require months of wait. Local VPI dealer told me that they have several tables on order for 4 months already.

@rauliruegas btw, Ive heard M.Fremer uses Technics SL-1200G now.

@sgreg1 I looked at SOTA and they make great turntables. Ironically the only turntable in my price range has Rega arm on it :)

@rauliruegas I don't have anything against Rega. They make top products. It is just they don't have what I am looking for. 

You need to add this to your list if you want a serious upgrade 

https://sotaturntables.com/ 
USA built with lifetime upgrade and buy back program!

FWIW I would go with a VPI. That is what I am looking to do very soon. You do not have to go unipivot as there is a gimbal option. Unipivot are fine but can be subject to vibrations in many instances depending on where you have them set up. 

Dear @adrobitko  : STPH M.Fremer reviewed the 100K+  SAT XD-1 turntable using only top cartridges as Lyra Atlas and in that review he posted:

"" The XD1 shares some sonic characteristics with Rega's revolutionary RP10 turntable: ultrafast, clean transients throughout the audible frequency range; tight, fast bass; revealing midrange transparency; and overall sonic stability and focus. All these characteristics result, apparently, from careful attention paid to structural rigidity and the removal or prevention of unwanted vibrational energy. ""

In his review of the Rega MF had not problems because the azymuth issue but if you are so worried about I think audiomods makes and after market item for that.

The Rega RP-10 could be your best choice. Is up to you. It's tonearm is an excellent one.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

I have a P8 with Ania Pro and a VPI Classic 3 with Ortofon cadenza black cart. I really love both tables for different reasons and keep them both in the system and use both hooked to my Manley Steelhead phono stage. Often times I play one side of a record on the P8 and the other on the VPI. Def the VPI is more of a open and transparent see into sound than the P8. The P8 is still very fun to listen to and so much easier to use. Takes seconds to flip a record. You don’t have to even stop the platter. With the VPI it’s a process and takes really 10X longer. If I want to sit down and really Basque in the sound I’ll put on the VPI but for everyday casual listening I go P8. I have a feeling the P8 would get a lot closer to the sound of the VPI with a better cart.

Hi again @adrobitko 

"Because they will have to open the box and then it is not a new cart anymore. If I decide to buy I can return it but they will take 15% restocking fee. Unless something wrong with it. But azimuth they don’t consider as something wrong, because i should be able to adjust it on the turntable."

Shame on such dealers.  They are not providing any service to customers, just suiting themselves.  You may as well buy cheaper on-line and push them into the dirt.  Let's name them.

a few years ago i was seeking an upgrade for my VPI traveller with ART9 cartridge.

i listened to the new at the time Rega P6 with Ania cartridge at a dealer on my same Harbeth speakers.  after all the Rega hype i had read the sound was disappointing.  i thought my traveler sounded better.  

i wound up getting the technics 1200gr and a herbies 4mm mat.  

it was a solid upgrade, clearer, lots of dynamic energy and speed steady as a rock.  also great vibration isolation and cartridge adjustability.  

since them i have tried a number of cartridges landing on a lyra delos.  that is it for me, the sound is perfect.  good luck!

@mgolpoor the only Rega cart that I’d consider buying is Alpheta 3.  But it is out of my price range at the moment. I prefer shibata, micro line profiles. Don’t care about elliptical. So I’d have to settle for something I don’t like from Rega carts just because I can’t adjust azimuth. 

@clearthinker agree. Carts that have azimuth off should not pass the quality control. But in reality I have seen it on a carts going up to $2k. Have not checked more expensive carts. unfortunately internet started to kill local retailers and COVID  finished  them off. There are almost no stores around me that sell anything more expensive than at-vm95e :) one retailer declined to let me check the cart before I buy it. Because they will have to open the box and then it is not a new cart anymore. If I decide to buy I can return it but they will take 15% restocking fee. Unless something wrong with it. But azimuth they don’t consider as something wrong, because i should be able to adjust it on the turntable. :)

I have the P6 with Exact cart so very interested to see where this thread goes!  I have no plans to upgrade the table but possibly the cart and definitely the pre.  I am currently enjoying the very inexpensive Graham Slee SE 2.  Sounds good, but I know I can do much better.

Great info!

Thumbs up for the Audiomods arm. Can adjust azimuth as well as VTA. Sounds awesome as well.

On VTA adjustment. This is a bigger deal than some might think. Especially with the better MC cartridges. While using the AT33ptgII, I was a little underwhelmed with its performance. I finally took the time to measure VTA and discovered the tonearm was ever so slightly 'tail-up'. Luckily the Technics VTA adjustment goes quite a bit beyond the zero mark. I was able to get it level and it was an entirely different cartridge.

Also the gimbal bearings on Technics G/GR turntables are ridiculously smooth. This is not talked about enough. 

I do believe a better phono stage is also important. I really like my Hagerman Trumpet MC. But I would agree that you want to be able to deal with all cartridge/tonearm setup parameters first and that requires a turntable that makes this a simple, precise and repeatable process.

@secretguy +1 you nailed it!

I own and love my p3 rega ....... but my next table is a VPI for the same reason.

I'd never own another Music Hall. Poor quality and Roy is a jackass.

I'd look at Well Tempered.