I bought a Musical Fidelity preamp that had a slight problem with the remote. When I called, they offered a discount to accept it. I am partially disabled so the remote was pretty important. They gladly took it back and gave me a great discount on a Parasound JC-2 that I wanted. They paid for all shipping. I thought they treated me well.
I feel i have been done wrong by TMR..
The story I'm about to tell does not reflect in anyway any purposely wrongdoing by TMR.
I have dealt with TMR in the past and although there was a glitch, they went out of their way to rectify it and all ended well; so, I know they are good guys that practice good business. However, the other day I purchased, and by purchase, I mean moved into a cart and then pressed the pay button for a pair of Gallo speakers. To my surprise I received an SMS saying my card was charged on the one hand, and at the same time I've received a Message that the speakers have already been sold to someone else. This is the short end of the story; the full story shows up a few posts below. I admit at first I've been very upset and I started this post in a different way, it parked a lot of reaction, most of it in favor of TMR which I find to be great, but the real question I want to ask and this is regardless of if it happened with TMR or with any other venue, is, how can it be that once you move any product into a cart and press the pay button within a few moments the product can be sold simultaneously to another buyer? isn't there any smarter way to prevent such an incident which is obviously going to leave one of the customers disappointed and upset?
I have dealt with TMR in the past and although there was a glitch, they went out of their way to rectify it and all ended well; so, I know they are good guys that practice good business. However, the other day I purchased, and by purchase, I mean moved into a cart and then pressed the pay button for a pair of Gallo speakers. To my surprise I received an SMS saying my card was charged on the one hand, and at the same time I've received a Message that the speakers have already been sold to someone else. This is the short end of the story; the full story shows up a few posts below. I admit at first I've been very upset and I started this post in a different way, it parked a lot of reaction, most of it in favor of TMR which I find to be great, but the real question I want to ask and this is regardless of if it happened with TMR or with any other venue, is, how can it be that once you move any product into a cart and press the pay button within a few moments the product can be sold simultaneously to another buyer? isn't there any smarter way to prevent such an incident which is obviously going to leave one of the customers disappointed and upset?
124 responses
I once told TMR hat they should upgrade their camera as their pictures were consistently gray, and unappealing. They didn't like it, and told me so. Since then, I have bought a few things from them and they have ALL been good experiences. Their descriptions are accurate, the ratings of the equipment they sell are fair and their prices are reasonable when compared to other resellers here (you know who you are). |
Agree that gear should be tested if said so. Testing gear thoroughly is not easy. The key word is thoroughly. Does even that mean there will never be any problems? No. But that should be the exception, not the rule, and a reputable company will make things right which by all account TMR seems to do in general. I look at buying pricey gear from a professional and reliable source as an insurance policy as much as anything with the expectation that any issues that might slip through the cracks will be addressed. I am willing to pay a premium for extra insurance when it comes to buying pricey and often complex used audio gear. I am very likely to buy from them at some point. If people know of better sources to consider, I am all ears for sure. I have been burned buying pricey used items from individuals somewhat here in the past, but luckily the name brand maker of the gear provided good and reasonably priced service and I was able to resolve the issue that way. |
Hi Dan, since you decided to ask your question in public rather than reply to our questions directly, I'll go ahead and respond to you here as well. Regarding the transaction back in April of 2018 for the Metronome CD player. We all agree that was an inexcusable mistake. As such, we didn't make any excuses. We refunded you immediately and sent an additional $562 to cover your VAT and return shipping charges, and we also discounted your subsequent purchase. As an aside, we also moved the technician involved to another position in the company. As I said, that was an inexcusable error. We all agree on that. Regarding the transaction for the Gallo speakers, the simple explanation is that there wasn't a transaction. Merely placing something in your cart on our website does not hold the product indefinitely. There was no payment made. There is no history in our server logs for a transaction of any kind. In fact, the email that you sent us was a reply to an "abandoned cart email" which is an automated email that goes out from us when items are left in your cart. You never completed checkout - presumably because you were not happy about the sales tax shown in your cart for a New Jersey purchase. I assume this is why you inquired about shipping costs to Israel. But given that we are closed on the weekends, we did not respond to that inquiry until Monday - at which point the speakers had already sold elsewhere. Had you given us a chance to respond in full before going public with your grievances, we would have explained all of this and offered to help you find a product that would meet your needs. While I regret having to respond in this forum, I certainly don't fault you for being disappointed. We're all a little stressed out these days, and even minor disappointments can feel really big right now. Let's try to work these types of issues out together one-to-one in the future. We're on your side. Feel free to email me directly anytime if you don't feel like you're getting "fair" treatment from my customer service team - josh@tmraudio.com. PS - we are launching an exciting new feature to our website later this year that will help everyone find the products they're looking for without worrying so much about "losing" your long-sought-after product to someone else. We'll have a "saved search" feature that will provide you with an email alert the moment a product is added to our inventory that meets your search criteria. Along with this, we'll be adding some great search filters that will allow you to more efficiently search the 1000+ certified pre-owned products available in our store. We're excited about launching this great feature in the next 60-90 days, but in the meantime, feel free to reach out to our sales team if we can help you find some great speakers - sales@tmraudio.com. Josh Jackson, CEO |
Josh/TMR....thanks for taking the time to respond here (I know that doing so can be a very slippery slope; )) ....Your thoughtful response is much appreciated. Do you or do you not pledge to (reasonably) test used equipment before selling...and further, is that not part of your value added? The question is not meant to be snarky...honestly want to set expectations. I definitely have not forsaken TMR....but would ask more questions before another purchase. |
Hi ml8764ag, we currently have 6 full-time technicians who are testing used gear day in and day out. On average, they spend about one hour with each piece. Some things require more time. Some less. This amounts to about 30-40 pieces of gear / day that we are testing. Of everything that we sell, about 4% of our sales result in some sort of defect being reported. We offer a full return policy, and everything that is returned is tested again. In the end, we find that less than 2% of ALL of the products we sell have some sort of post-sale issue or defect. While we are constantly battling to lower this number, the reality is that there are many manufacturers in our industry that have a higher defect rate on BRAND NEW products. As anyone with any experience buying and selling used audio gear can attest, some unforeseen issues will invariably happen with any seller. It's how that seller responds that makes the biggest difference. In short, yes we absolutely test every product we sell. Just ask Dan, Duncan, Ben, Kate, Kyle or Jeremy - the folks that do this work every day. They all take a lot of pride in the work, and though their title is "technician" I know that they all see themselves as part of our customer service team - working to make sure you all have a positive experience. Thanks for the question - read more about our recently launched "certified pre-owned" program here: https://tmraudio.com/certified-pre-owned-hifi/ josh |
So, I did some homework and I have a few answers and a few questions, but I'm going to respect your request to continue this conversation directly with you; not on this forum, so I won't be responding to you on these pages but rather I'll talk to you later. However there are a few things I need to say before I close up this whole thing: I made it very clear that TMR could be the best operation on Earth yet I feel and I emphasize the words "I feel" that I was done wrong buy TMR, meaning it could even be an electronic glitch on your system but the feeling is still the same; I went ahead, I actually pressed the purchase button through PayPal and was later notified that the product is no longer available, that's the bottom line… and as you said yourself, I have all the right to feel disappointed. However never did I say that you guys don't run one of the best operations in the used audio gear world, never have I called you anything suggesting you have purposely done me wrong; more so, I think I've achieved at least one thing by this post and that's to get you the CEOs attention, something I was unable to do through the chat with Adriene. I'm actually happy to see the wide support TMR has received on this thread, something that works in the favor of TMR, all that while I was still able to get my point across and to get your attention. I will now contact you directly and I'm sure once I explain to you exactly what happened you will 100% empathize with my bad feeling and hopefully this will help fix whatever problem there may be in the electronic system… I want to thank everybody and all you goners, who participated in this thread, even those who did not take my side, because if you read carefully, I never expected anyone to take one side or the other I really just wanted to air a principal in shopping online that should not be very different from shopping in the real world… Once you put a product in your cart (pressed "buy now")that product cannot be taken away buy another customer without your consent without a warning without a good reason if the product is in the cart you must assume, I'm going to buy it (sale PENDING)… just like in the supermarket… I may be still shopping around for more products in your shop and I may have run to the manager to clarify a few questions but that doesn't mean I gave up the product, Plus when I reach you in person I will show you I actually pulled out my wallet and offered to pay, a payment that was declined for reasons you and I will find out in our private conversation. thanks for listening, thanks for participating and keep running a great business… sincerely Dan Thesound |
@tmraudio josh glad you are speaking out here and more importantly, helping out the customer who feels he has been mistreated would have been better he just work it out directly with your folks, but some feel being a squeaky wheel airing dirty laundry gets them where they want to go faster... maybe it is true but not such a pretty sight for the rest of us hope you all at tmr are doing ok in this difficult time; seems like the hifi gear market is doing fairly well with everyone stuck at home more than ever |
dear jjss49 I'd like to start by saying there is no "us"... you wrote the post please speak for yourself, thank you. as to airing dirty laundry, I think even Josh understood this is not the case here. I have two objectives in mind when writing this post: one is to bring up an issue with online buying when using multiple venues. the second one was to get heard buy TMR after I tried doing so directly and was unsuccessful. So please.... thanks Dan |
I think the OP was respectful and objective with his original post. It's unfortunate that things turned out the way they did. I also think Josh of TMR was more than fair and understanding in his reply. I think this is a case of a good customer and a well meaning retailer having a misunderstanding. I'm sure they will be able to work it out. Many times these types of posts turn ugly and it's refreshing that this one did not. Oz |
This title caught my attention as I am considering buying a fairly pricey item from TMR. Seems to me from the responses from TMR as well as others here that this is a good, responsible company who has a very good track record. In terms of what the customer has posted here, there was definitely dirty laundry aired here, despite what he might like to believe. I run a consumer based business myself and my employees and myself work very hard at being responsive. There are always a few faults, and customers airing dirty laundry on public sites and forums to get what they want, fair or unfair, is just part of where we are as a society. |
I am communicating with Dan offline now, but an interesting question was raised here that I want to address for everyone's knowledge. When shopping on our website (or any e-commerce site), merely putting an item in your cart does not hold that product indefinitely. It's not the same as a physical "cart" in a supermarket. Here's why - over the past 30 days alone 349 carts totaling $458,241.72 were abandoned on our website. "Abandoned carts" are when a customer places something in their cart but never completes the checkout. This is extremely prevalent in the world of eCommerce. Only about 25% of customers that place items in their cart on our website actually complete checkout. As such, we don't remove items from other marketplaces until checkout is actually complete. Now to be fair to Dan, he was under the impression that he HAD actually made a payment based on a hold of funds his bank was showing him. We never had a transaction on our end. There's no money to refund. So we are sorting that out, and maybe we will discover something along the way that needs to be addressed. Another big change we have made that is relevant to this conversation - we are in the process of making a dramatic change to our checkout process for Audiogon sales. Many of you may not be aware, but there was a significant security breach on Audiogon last month. When logging in, we were logged in to some of YOUR accounts. And we had users reporting that they were logging into ours. We can't claim to take our customers' privacy and security seriously if we don't respond to this. As such, we are turning off the built-in checkout for Audiogon and sending each and every customer a secure checkout link following the sale. This should also cut down on some of the rare stock-level issues like this. As a featured dealer on Audiogon, we are within the rules to publish our contact information within our listings etc. As such, we are openly encouraging everyone to shop with us directly for the freshest inventory, lowest pricing and most responsive sales support (and best privacy and security). Thanks again for your continued support. We are truly blessed to have the opportunity to serve such a wonderful community. I'm always happy to hear from anyone with suggestions about how we can serve you better. Josh |
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Troids need love too. Just thought I’d remind everyone that some sizeable proportion of TMR’s inventory is direct from PS Audio as part of their liberal trade-in policy. Most of the high end stuff should have been vetted by PS Audio or whoever accomplishes the transfer to TMR. I can’t believe anyone would take in speakers without a checkout! It’s easy! Even more astonishing is someone who would buy speakers for overseas shipment without asking about air freight. I don’t know Gallo speakers but assume they’re not 2-to-a-box bookshelf speakers. When I moved to and from Europe in the 80’s, I dam sure knew what it would take to get me and my gear halfway around the world safely. We should all make note of the wages in terms of time, money, stress and strain caused by a desire to save a buck. |
I've purchased a power amplifier and some speakers from TMR. Both buying experiences were top notch from the description and photos, the transaction itself, the regular communication and process updates, the delivery and discovery of well packed components, to the performance and enjoyment of the product. I always regard them as a great seller. It saddens me to see any seller who obviously means well, get trashed on social media. People remember negative trashing on social media far more and for a longer period of time than they do of accolades. TMR was put in a tough situation having to defend itself and carefully not come off as trashing a customer. Their replies were thorough, well meaning and logical. TMR is still high on my list. I once purchased an integrated amp from an "electronics dealer" in New York. The description said it had been "thoroughly bench tested". From the first minute I listened and from that point on, I could hear that the left channel was distorted (like poorly tuned AM radio) and it's volume was half that of the right side. The next month involved sending countless emails and recorded sound clips and doing troubleshooting for them. I took it to a hifi repairman who spent 15 minutes, listening, taking a few measurements and giving me an estimate for replacing the shorted register in the left channel and removing all of the original adhesive that the manufacturer had used to secure heavier components before soldering could be done. Over the 15-20 years of it's life, the adhesive slowly got warn and eventually became full of carbon...which is conductive and was causing 5vdc to be present at all times on the right speaker output, which would have resulted in the voice coil(s) getting fried regularly. He said this was common in used components and its the first thing he checks when getting into a vintage piece. The seller ended up refunding me for the repair only...nothing for the weeks of delay and time spent trouble shooting. If an individual has said it worked fine, it would have been disappointing, but a seller who represents themselves as an electronic center and reconditioner has no excuse for crap like that. I obviously won't ever consider buying from them again, but I also haven't called them out by name on social media and whined about it either...trying to turn hundreds against them. If you treat your customers fairly, they will come back and you will succeed. If you burn enough of them...they will go away and you will fail. An isolated incident, blown up to thousands on social media is unfairly damaging, as if the company has mistreated thousands of people. I'd recommend TMR anytime, without hesitation. |
Let me add one more datapoint, or rather two: First, I purchased an amp last month from TMR, and the process could not have gone more smoothly. It was shipped promptly, the equipment was exactly as described, and the packaging was just about the best I've ever seen—truly, the attention to detail was over the top, in a good way. Second, I was pleased enough with that transaction that I decided to see what TMR would offer for the extra equipment I had laying around that I didn't really have the time or interest to sell directly. This included two big monoblock amps, a phono preamp, and a relatively obscure DAC. TMR gave competitive quotes on the first two and passed on the third, which I totally understand. (I think they would have taken it on consignment, which seems fair enough.) After I accepted the quotes, TMR promptly sent Fedex labels (including an additional one that turned out to be needed after I packed everything up), sent detailed packing advice, and scheduled a home pick-up, which I appreciated. They reported that all was in order about a day after receiving the boxes, and the check arrived in the mail a couple days after that. I was quite pleased to clear out some unneeded equipment without the hassle of putting it up myself on Audiogon and dealing directly with buyers, etc. All in all, a great experience. Of course, there will always be hiccups in commerce and especially ecommerce, and so I try to be concerned less about those kinds of problems, which are inevitable, than about how a company responds to them. Skimming the thread here, it seems to me that TMR did about as well as any business could be expected to do. I can certainly understand the OP's disappointment, but I don't think the epside reflects badly on TMR at all—quite the opposite. |
Thank you all for the comments on TMR, they are helpful to me, and I am proceeding with my planned purchase with them. Thanks also for the ’static’ on my misspelling of my username... clumsy fingers, frequent multi tasking, and dyslexia work against me sometimes. Have enjoyed this forum off and on for some years, but only recently officially signed up to post and seek input, on some system upgrades. And to the OP, sorry if I offended you... I don’t judge those I do not know, I just share my personal feelings and observations. I do note that in many dealings, defensiveness is often a tell. Good day to all. |
I have done about 15 transactions with TMR and have always found them to be great people to work with for the following reasons: They accurately describe the condition of the gear they have up for sale, and in my experience for an example grade an item a 7 and when you receive it it's at least an 8 and I know this is very subjective but I have never purchased an item that was in a lesser condition than they stated. They repack the items they ship out as well or sometimes better than the manufacturer. I had a situation on receipt of an amp that the outer box had been punctured in transit so I called the sales guy Nick and wanted just to return it unopened. Nick told me because of the value of the amp they had double packed it by putting the original box in an outer box surrounded with about an inch of styrofoam all around. To my surprise when I opened the shipment only the outer part of the outside box was damaged and about 1/3 inch of the foam. When I questioned Nick about why would a company spend the extra time and money to do this he told me it's about doing thing right the first time and if the gear arrives damaged its a problem for us and you. My last comment it about Nick himself he is the kind of employee everybody would want working for them he cares about your experience and you can tell he enjoys music and hear. I would say dealing with Nick is like dealing with anyone from PS Audio or Pass Labs it's the best compliment I can give. I also agree with the person who asked what was this guys issue and did he speak with anyone at TMR? |
I have done about 15 transactions with TMR and have always found them to be great people to work with for the following reasons: They accurately describe the condition of the gear they have up for sale, and in my experience for an example grade an item a 7 and when you receive it it's at least an 8 and I know this is very subjective but I have never purchased an item that was in a lesser condition than they stated. They repack the items they ship out as well or sometimes better than the manufacturer. I had a situation on receipt of an amp that the outer box had been punctured in transit so I called the sales guy Nick and wanted just to return it unopened. Nick told me because of the value of the amp they had double packed it by putting the original box in an outer box surrounded with about an inch of styrofoam all around. To my surprise when I opened the shipment only the outer part of the outside box was damaged and about 1/3 inch of the foam. When I questioned Nick about why would a company spend the extra time and money to do this he told me it's about doing thing right the first time and if the gear arrives damaged its a problem for us and you. My last comment it about Nick himself he is the kind of employee everybody would want working for them he cares about your experience and you can tell he enjoys music and gear. I would say dealing with Nick is like dealing with anyone from PS Audio or Pass Labs it's the best compliment I can give. I also agree with the person who asked what was this guys issue and did he speak with anyone at TMR? |
I hate to be too positive, but I have had multiple transactions with The Music Room and they have been great. Shipping on time, products were as advertised or in better condition. They always have given great prices on trade-ins, including multiple products, unlike most of the high-end audio dealers. I guess my only slight complaint is they tend to push PS Audio products a bit, but heck, I like Paul McGowan. |
I have a problem with this guy who starts with I Feel like I have been wronged by TMR did he attempt to contact them before his post? Then when the overwhelming majority of the people came to the defense of TMR his only response was ”That is why he said he used the words I FEEL as a defense to all these positive reviews. My suggestion take your issues to TMR directly first and give them time to respond and if they don't then take your issues to a forum |
I have had multiple dealings (6) with TMR from electronic, cables and speakers. The transactions have always been excellent with great communications. Their shipping is not cheap but second to non. I found that they were willing to listen and work with me each and every time during a transaction, very nice folks. I wouldn't hesitate dealing with them again! |
I have bought 2 or 3 times from TMR. Seeing as I am in UK they seem perhaps too willing to send internationally. The last time was more than a year ago when I bought a surround sound processor and the menu system was faulty. I have and have had a number of various makes so I am familiar with how they work and the menu systems. When I contacted them they were pretty adamant that it was not faulty, but regardless were honorable and arranged return shipping and refund. I did not hear from them confirming the fault. Testing a processor may be a bit complicated, it is not just a question of switching on and seeing lights! |
Is this logging on to someone else's account still an issue at Audiogon? Back in 2018, everytime I logged into Audiogon, it logged me in as someone else. Essentially I had access to personal info, access to purchase, purchase history, payment, etc.
I flagged it to Tammy at customer service. She flagged it to their engineers and assured me everything would be fixed and sorted out. The fact that this is still a problem makes me less confident I should leave payment access on the site... |
I have done three transactions with TMR in the past month, and all have stood out for their responsiveness and TMR’s staff willingness to genuinely be of service. In one case, a hundred-pound amplifier arrived with one of its front LEDs not working. That may have happened in transit, who's to say. When informed of the issue, the service manager immediately apologized and offered a return label and free pickup, and of course a repair at no cost. The amp just made its way back to Colorado and if I’ve understood correctly, the tech will be replacing all three front LEDs on the assumption that when one LED goes, the others may not be far behind. The service manager even mentioned that the COLOR of a single replacement LED may not exactly match the others, which he said was another reason to replace all three. The foresight and attention to detail that's evident from those remarks make me feel pretty damn good about TMR. By the way, between the shipping and the tech’s salary, TMR is spending a good $400 (and maybe more) to take care of one measly LED not functioning. THAT, my friends, is service. To me, perhaps the most disagreeable part in the original post was the shrill insistence that TMR ought to be open, and able to respond immediately, 24/7. Few small companies do this, and besides, let’s get some perspective here: nothing about a high-end audio purchase ever involves an emergency. If you have a question about something you wish to purchase on Friday night or over the weekend, it’s eminently reasonable that a reply will come on Monday. Accidents and mistakes happen. It’s what the seller does afterwards that separates the shady and run-of-the-mill ones from the ones who are truly top-tier, who courteously and professionally fix the problem, going above and beyond if need be. To me, and so far, TMR have been customer service heroes. |
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