How important Is shielding with RCA wires? (Ethan Winer, new video)

Some here will dismiss this simply because it's Mr Winer. I no longer use RCA cables but I do have my Ethernet and Power cables running parallel through wire management and I've never heard any hum or distortion through my active speakers. 

@hilde45 

i can't figure out if your op is a service or a disservice to the a-gon community 🤣

@jjss49 LOL. I'm not sure we're above self-harm at this point. Kind of like our country.

Speaking of which, research McDonalds and human meat. It could be true considering the world today. I'd rather take a chance with cables.

Yummy, soylent green. 

Let me guess..... NOT important! I don't need to watch the video. 

With Dr. Winer nothing is important. Except for acoustic panels which he has a business interest in. 

That's all you need to know.

Most important with low level phono signals. Less so elsewhere. My go to RCA ICs are DNM Reson ...unshielded. For phono as well. They are affordable and MOST coherent. Had to do some alternate shielding to enable that without inducted noise. My HVAC is just outside the wall behind the hifi.   Step up phono transformer needed the extra shielding as well and is located inside mu-metal foil. See my system photos for the mu-metal shielding implementation. No audible inducted noise with that setup. Dead quiet! Would still prefer the HVAC were elsewhere. YMMV.

@thyname Another ad hominem. That provides some insight but not about the video or its creator. 

This video has gotten over 1k views in less than a day. As we saw in the Prima Luna vs. Raven video, the introduction of facts in the service of argument was crucial to people being convinced by the video. If there are facts or procedures asserted in this video that are questionable, spell that out. Otherwise, you're just attacking someone by name or association. 

You don't need shielding until you do. 😁

There was no insult. I said what I think. I know the individual for many years via all audio forums and audio groups on FB. He is in all of them (that have not banned him). I really don’t need to watch the video knowing the source. It’s the same drum I have heard beating for years. Why is that an insult? Similar to learning about vaccines from a prominent anti-vaxxer you tube channel. I won’t watch the video if I believe that vaccines help with the pandemic. Very simple thought process.

Consistent with what @mapman points out, shielding in RCA wire can make a huge difference between a SUT and phono pre.  It would be simple to show a YouTube video highlighting the impact.  I will try to hide all my whiskey bottles better than Mr. Winer did.

I'll watch it. Not twice. I'm kind of predisposed with Mr. Winters. I've watched a lot of his stuff. Do I buy it, Believe it, or Promote it? Not so much. The one thing all of his type agree on, that I agree with, "you don't need to spend a fortune on cables to have great sound". I'll add, you better know what you're looking for if your going to go that route.

Not all cables are equal because they measure the same.. Not by a long shot. Cable construction isn't making a pretty cable (though it helps) there is a LOT of tech in cable construction. Pinwheel, Helix, multi alloy, Harp, mag/tech, on and on and on.. 

NO idea what he's gonna say, but I'm sure my ears will get red and my eyes will glaze over before the end of the flick.  If not for any other reason than the monotone 40 voice. I wonder if he could get excited? Yippee just doesn't seen like it would come out of him, to tell the truth. :-)

Eeyore saying "yip.... pee, I'm tired"

Regards

@oldhvymec --- try engaging with "Mr. Winters" in an audio forum. You will get thrown the famous Dunning-Kruger Graph in your face pronto! 😁😂,

Oh....

Not all cables are equal because they measure the same.. Not by a long shot. Cable construction isn’t making a pretty cable (though it helps) there is a LOT of tech in cable construction. Pinwheel, Helix, multi alloy, Harp, mag/tech, on and on and on..

That can be easily disproved with his null tester machine 😉

he one thing all of his type agree on, that I agree with, "you don't need to spend a fortune on cables to have great sound"

Yeah me too! He and I have a very important thing in common: we both like Jack Daniels.

That was a rushed and limited test case scenario.

Put your ear directly in front of the tweeter and woofer - listen closely and carefully; particularly when placing the unshielded interconnects adjacent to other noisy electrical cords and open jacks on the back of the receiver-amplifier (yes, where you actually plug things into), not just waiving the cable around in the air. Duh.

It can be worse with big A/V receivers too. The "noise" is there if you listen carefully. Some people understand attention to detail better than others before making videos. Not in this case.

Good for you, I don't drink. Cat died 6 years ago I had a shot of single malt. 10 year or so before that.. If I use wine to cook with I'll taste it. If I don't like the taste I don't use it. I use a lot of aged vinegars in cooking.. :-) I do make up Vanilla every 5 years or so. Kettle one and a shot of 50 year old cognac in 8 oz. 10 grade A beans Madagascar is the bomb.. Brazil and Mexico has some really good Vanilla too.

I've had to used a scope and null testing equipment a few times in CANN bus work. Because you couldn't inspect the cable it was covered in grout. There was a way to check for issues between wires. That is the only reason I've ever used null testing in the field. How do check for a smeared wire? The looms were 100K one of a kind 6 week wait. They had spare wires in the loom to get going.. 

The only reason to null test. Safety. I have never needed to use it for any other reason. Absolute conductivity and NO migration of any kind (a frayed or god forbid two wires touching) on a 125 foot personnel boom. They use to be all analog. They sucked in the 70-80s

Audiophile cables, not so much.. LOL Null testing proves you know HOW to null test. It says nothing of a cable's inherent sound qualities.

@decooney  Thanks -- you're engaging his claims. Appreciated.

@thyname I never said your comment was an insult. I said your comment was ad hominem. In particular, it is a circumstantial ad hominem with an implicit appeal to motive. It's a fallacy. If instead you had commented something like, "I stopped paying attention to Mr. Winer years ago" or "I can't be bothered with Mr. Winer," or even just "I don't like Ethan," you'd be on solider ground.

It’s safer to be shielded....just like being vacinnated......or a condom, except you only have to do it once.

Non-shielded, POTENTIALLY more problematic and can be for real and easily heard (or not so easily even in other cases) as I related above. YMMV. It all depends. Like radio reception. Like most things.

I am very proud of my $30 mu metal foil shielding solution for my phono section. Allows me to use the DNMs which I strongly recommend. I think I will brag about it here until no end now like some...or one...we all know who I’m talking about? Oh wait, I did it 10 years ago..........is it too late?

I have made a lot of interconnects but almost always shielded them and then I tried a couple of sets unshielded just for kicks.  I didn't hear any noticeable difference between the shielded or unshielded cables in my system so since then I have included the shield for the reasons stated by others, and because I didn't hear any negative effect on the sound because of the shielding.  I believe there are many things that have a greater influence on how dynamic a system sounds than cable shielding.  Plus, well-regarded manufactured cables at all price ranges use shielding.

@three_easy_payments - I will try to hide all my whiskey bottles better than Mr. Winer did.

Easy - mine are nowhere near that big!

+1 @mapman ​​​​@mitch2

i recall that there was a reputable cable maker some time ago (don’t remember who now) who argued that shielding rca i-c’s could hurt the sound a little, but even then that maker admitted that there are many times/places/systems that need the benefits of proper shielding (usually in the context of truly minute phono signals and their connections), which outweighed the minor sonic decrement

i have some unshielded ic’s and but most i have are shielded - and i don’t have the same ic that is constructed with and without shielding as the only difference, so i can’t really say if it helps

and i like others here, have always use shielded connections for analog

The one possible downside to shielding is you add capacitance, and therefore risk (slightly) rolling off the high end of a signal. Math says this should not matter usually. 

Personally I build all my cables with a shield, for what it's worth.

I watched the video. It’s so ….. sad. Hopefully the cats are doing well.

The “assistant” is such a nice gentle woman. 

I feel bad for the Lady she has got some serious bone spurs or bunions on her big toes. Looks painful. Drugs!! After 20 plus maintenance surgeries and 3 major ones. I can spot pain. The broken neck, 4 blown disk, and 1/2" rod that went through me was considered minor, the nutty thyroid tumors it got pretty serious. It's what I get for picking up 20 tons of stuff everyday for 45 years.. Maybe it was setting the 20 tons back down that did the damage. :-)

Now it's 20 pounds. I still cheat I use leverage. I figure 300 with a 6 foot 2x4 is close. :-)

Back to Mr. Winters. I do like some of his panels. The problem is I'm not to fond of him. He has to keep me awake, or be funny, or wild, or really really witty, or good looking, or begging for money.

I hope he don't take up savin' souls, we're all in a heap of trouble.. 

I feel the fire lappin' at my feet, of course in monotone 40 as flat as a pancake.

Use his voice as a test tone, because it never changes. I could hear him say "battle stations, battle stations". Everyone would just stay sleeping, taking a dump, eatin' breakfast, and polishin' atom bombs. Ops, you missed a spot.

Did he say "BATTLE STATION", or addled Administration? I think it was the latter.

Regards

@oldhvymec : you must have missed Mr. Winters’ hit movie, publicly available for FREE in the Internet. http://exposed.ethanwiner.com/ate.htm

I looked and it warned me it was an elicit site. Gezzzz Like I need that image in my head. McAfee saved me from 6 weeks of Prozac and electroshock therapy. 

It could lead to a self inflicted lobotomy if left untreated. :-)

Regards

The main thing I learned in this thread is that @oldhvymec certainly doesn't need to drink! He enjoys life while intoxicated on life ;-)

Thanks, I'll take that as a true complement. Being awfully Irish can be rough on just about everything. I'll give the ol liver a break. :-)

Others claim I'm ticking for a reason. They think it's a count down, I assure them it's a homemade analog pacemaker. External PS with silver wire that is gold plated in PTFE and silicone. I just turned it up after a battery swap.

Huston we have lift off, the clock is running. :-)

Regards

@oldhvymec ..."Houston we have lift off, the clock is running. :-)"

You're having fun, and that's what matters most!  ☑ :) 

There are 4 kinds of science at least: anti-science, Democrat science, Republican science, and Real Science. I am an engineer and I know from experience I can use Real Science to design products the others are useless in product design. However, this is America and you are free to follow whatever science you choose to follow.

Shielding is a highly misunderstood subject. Typical conductive film shielding is good for radio frequencies only. Adding woven conductive shielding over the top of film shielding will extend the useful frequency range downward. There is one exception to this, but you are not likely to encounter it. If you check the cabling catalogs you will find its effective range is above 60Hz, way above 60Hz. Making use of the "Ma Bell" twisted pair patent will help isolate the signal on a pair of conductors.

Keeping RF out of your equipment will reduce the "noise", but it is difficult to quantize. With today's equipment you can detect the RF in a system and display it. In short you can measure how good of an antenna your system is. Can you hear it? Sometimes. If you can measure the noise floor, you can detect the difference. Can you hear the difference in the noise floor? Not everyone will hear the difference and the noise floor of the recording maybe the limiting factor. Proper equipment design will limit this problem but not eliminate it.

60Hz hum, I would look for a grounding problem first. The 60Hz range is near field interference, magnetic field. Common sense will limit the EMI (Electromagnetic Interference) noise issue. Can you hear EMI noise? Yes, if it is loud enough. It sticks out like a sore thumb if you can do an A/B system test. There is plenty of research to support this. There is also plenty of research which indicates you may want to limit your exposure to EMI. There is a push in Europe to place limits on EMI exposure for humans. There is plenty of research showing you can use it to control brain function. Brain washing. haha

If you get the chance to hear a system with full range shielding covering the DC up frequency range you will either hate it or love it. It seems some brains cannot process the information with pleasure in full range shielded system. I discovered this from experience and I don't know why it occurs. For this effect to be maximized, the equipment design must be for full range shielding. I know of at least one reviewer of full range shielded cable where the reviewer states he misses the noise in his system. hmmm To each his own! Celebrate it, don't bother arguing.

This is a link to some information on shielding in the Audio Union collection. Do you want your equipment to withstand the electrical and magnetic effects of a nuclear explosion, I can do that do for a small fee. Haha, not that it would do you any good unless you are Doctor Strangelove.

I find shielding closes in the sound

@stringreen 

shielding block lots of RF noises and such..  someone on YouTube used a device to listen to his cables.. he was picking up broadcasts from AM and all kinds of noise..  shielding makes sense with low signal cables..

@audio-union Thanks for your informative post. What would your definition of "real science" be? How would you put that into words? Asking seriously, not snarkily.

Am currently reading a classic in the history of science, The Edge of Objectivity (1960) and wonder how you’d articulate real science.

Nothing's important, until it is. 

Someone explain to me: Balanced makes sense, backstage, long runs, ... to prevent problems.

It is not about 'better', it's 'prevention'.

And yet, so many say 'balanced SOUNDs better? 

Why, How, certainly not my experience.

If I had a problem, then it would be important.

@oldhvymec 

You crack me up! 😆

JD

@hilde45 I checked the book you mentioned, interesting summary. It turns out, finding real science these days is more difficult than ever. It is basically a can of worms and the cards are stacked against you.

If I remember correctly it was Fahrenheit who stated something like "you need a scale and a method of quantizing a point to know something about a subject". That is science in one perspective.

Real science is information I can use you to write equations to find a "solution" to a "question" within a mathematical system. This is using established science. When you do research you may take data points and look for an equation for predicting a "solution surface". When you can find real world solutions within an accuracy of 5% or greater you can be pretty sure it is real science. Once the same solution is duplicated by more researchers then your confidence goes up that you have real science.

The problem in science is mostly related to hypocrisy. The book "Around the World in 80 Days" makes fun of this issue. But here is a real world example: the wrong head was associated with a dinosaur in textbooks for more than a 100 years even thought it was widely known it was the wrong head. It is not uncommon to see real science scoffed at by the science elite and you will see these science elite intentionally misled people including students. Whaaatttt? They will also call you a "flat earther".

This is an example of Democrat and Republican science with a big dose of hypocrisy and intentional lying from Doctor Fauci and crew. Nearly everything regarding Covid you hear or see is inaccurate in oh so many ways inside the United States. Talk to your personal doctor, don't trust the aforementioned ACTORS. As soon as you expand your information source to the rest of the world you have access to more accurate information. BTW, part of my news sources were censored after January 20, 2020 again, a Democrat is in office. This is a problem with people who can not stand free speech, which limits real science. Hmmm

Oddly enough you see exactly the same types of conversations on this forum and others related to audio. Hmmmm However, when I have a user like @stringreen ask for information and @stringreen makes statement like "I find shielding closes in the sound" I know for sure in which direction to advise @stringreen. You need to remember the idea is to enjoy the music and not let science get in the way and I would  advise @stringreen to give a listen to Anticable's products. But I just used my knowledge of science to provide advice to a user which hopefully will increase the pleasures of music. That's the way it ought to be.

@audio-union Thanks for your extended discussion of my question. I had not thought of some of the things you mention regarding Democratic and Republic science. You might enjoy that book. It was recommended to me by the former Chair of Biology at Columbia as a classic discussion of how what is considered "objective science" fluctuated across the periods within the history of science.

@audio-union,

Spot on!

Rule of thumb is, the lower the signal, the more important the shielding. You can never have too much of it. 

You should always shield interconnects if you want good signal to noise ratios.

If your kit is very good at noise rejection and you live on an island miles from anyone else and Jupiter is having a quiet day and the only kit switched on is your music system, you may not need to shield your interconnects.

@oldhevymec     I find the "assistant" to very closely resemble the image I have in my head of what WC Fields in drag would have looked like. Is this the fate of all heavy tipplers🤗